Sunday, April 21, 2013

Adyatmic discussion -- 409***

P: The question is here is to understand the fact that, the pain and pleasure are created (duality) out of single stuff. -- fine but we are not questioning that.

As I said I have not come across a single person in my life who is indifferent to the pleasure / pain principle.

I would consider such a person abnormal, cold , psychic.

Are you not effected by the pleasure / pain principle ?

About Ramana Maharishi or whoever; many things are exaggerated by people; so let us not believe everything.

Every human being is exactly like you and me because we share the same consciousness
All the pretense of these so called 'god men' posing as supermen, I find it very hard to believe.

SK: -  The pleasure and pain are individual experiences happening within the waking experience. Therefore their reality is limited to the waking experience because the waking experience itself is an illusion. Until one becomes aware of the fact that: how the waking experience is an illusion, he is bound to experience the duality as reality. The individuality and individual experiences happening with in the waking experience, is nothing to do with the formless Soul, which is the witness of the three states. 

 The pleasure and pain of the dream become unreal when the waking takes place. Same way for a Gnani the waking experience becomes mere an object of experience because he is soul-centric. Most of the god men are pretending to be Gnani but they are egocentric. When one becomes soul-centric for his body and the world are also consciousness.   Because people think the body is born, lives and dies they feel the pleasure and pain as reality. But it is not body alone that dies, the world also dies together, because they appeared together and they disappear together as deep sleep or death.   The one which is aware of the appearance disappearance of the three states is birth- less and deathless, which our dear friend James called it as no one.
The no one is the soul, which Buddhist called as nothingness or emptiness and Sage  Sri, Sankara called it as Brahman, Meher Baba called it as I AM GOD STATE, and Christens called it Christ consciousness. .  When one consciously becomes aware of the no one is the true self, then there is no physical apparatus and world to experience, because a Gnani is aware his body and the world are also consciousness.   To get this conviction one has to understood the fact that, the birth, life, death and the world are a mere mirage created out of consciousness. Whatever prevails without the mirage is ultimate truth, which is consciousness.

If the self is formless   then diversity is mere illusion. One has  to know this fact intellectually first, then gradually as conviction becomes firm then  he becomes soul-centric and he sees the sameness in everything and the mind reaches the stillness and he  becomes aware of the fact that,  the soul itself is the ultimate truth.   

We all including the world exist in waking or dream. We experience different experiences as individuals. When we consider we are individual separate from the world, we will think whatever is happening within the waking experience as reality, because we are judging the truth on the waking entity, which is erroneous. The waking entity is limited to the waking experience alone. We have to learn to judge truth on the base of the formless knower of the three states.    Therefore, the individuality and individual experience are nothing to do with the self, which is formless.  Until one includes the world in his realization to grasp the ultimate truth is an impossibility. 

We have to realize Individual experience of birth, life and death is nothing to do with the soul, the innermost   self which is the soul, because the soul is our eternal identity. On the base of soul as self there is neither witness nor witnessed, there is only oneness.  

There is no need to believe any sages in the past,  they are not yard stick they are mere signpost. The seeker has to do his own investigation and realize what is truth and what is not truth