sunthosh-formlesspath.blogspot.com
Tuesday, June 19, 2012
Adyathmic -Discussion-306
In
Brahma Sutras Sankara says that Brahman is the cause of the world,
whereas in Mandukya he denies it. This is because he says that at the
lower stage of understanding, the former teaching must be given, for
people will get frightened as they cannot understand how the world can
be without a cause, but to those in a higher stage, the truth of
non-causality can be revealed.
Brahma Sutras, i.e. "Ve danta Sutras" by Badarayana, are intended for those of middling intellects, not for those who have the best brains: it is a semi-theological, semi-philosophical work; it starts with the assumption that Brahman exists.
A man who describes Sankara's philosophy as negative (because of his Neti, Neti) does not know that this is applied only to the objective world , the critic ignorantly believes that it is also applied to the formless witness of the objective world(witnessed). One must understand the fact that, the formless witness(soul) cannot be neageted , only the witnessed(objective world).
Scriptural mastery is not wisdom.
That is why That is Sri Sankara, in Bhaja Govindam says: - [Jnana Viheena Sarva Mathena Bajathi na Muktim janma Shatena] - one without knowledge does not obtain liberation even in a hundred births, no matter which religious faith he follows.
Thus it proves that wisdom is universal irrespective of any religion of faith one belongs. Thus religion is not the means to self-knowledge. Thus Sri, Sankara’s Advaita minus orthodoxy is true Advaita. --FORMLESS PATH
Brahma Sutras, i.e. "Ve danta Sutras" by Badarayana, are intended for those of middling intellects, not for those who have the best brains: it is a semi-theological, semi-philosophical work; it starts with the assumption that Brahman exists.
A man who describes Sankara's philosophy as negative (because of his Neti, Neti) does not know that this is applied only to the objective world , the critic ignorantly believes that it is also applied to the formless witness of the objective world(witnessed). One must understand the fact that, the formless witness(soul) cannot be neageted , only the witnessed(objective world).
Scriptural mastery is not wisdom.
That is why That is Sri Sankara, in Bhaja Govindam says: - [Jnana Viheena Sarva Mathena Bajathi na Muktim janma Shatena] - one without knowledge does not obtain liberation even in a hundred births, no matter which religious faith he follows.
Thus it proves that wisdom is universal irrespective of any religion of faith one belongs. Thus religion is not the means to self-knowledge. Thus Sri, Sankara’s Advaita minus orthodoxy is true Advaita. --FORMLESS PATH
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Divine Khan Sri shankra wrote beautifully, I read ur posts since a year , the posts which u wrots with only ur own words was carring more indepth understanding of reality, honestly giving references of others fades the beauty of non duality.....11 hours ago ·
Santthosh Kumaar
dear Divine Khan. Thank you. I appreciate your honest suggestion but without Sage, Sri, Sankara there is no Advaita (non-duality). Since it was mixed up with orthodoxy there is lot of confusion. I am highlighting all the obstacles, which is blocking one from realizing the ultimate truth or Brahman. Sage, Sri, Sankara' gave religious, ritual or dogmatic instruction to the mass but pure philosophy only to the few who could rise to it. Hence the interpretation of his writings by commentators is often confusing because they mix up the two viewpoints. Thus they may assert that ritual is a means of realizing Brahman, which is absurd.
Yoga Vasishtha :- "Teachers, interpretations of sacred texts, the force of religious merit--none of these lead to the realization of that Ultimate Truth which is revealed in the clear reflection of the heart, engendered from contact with the good."
All the FP and IP blogs are verified truth. If one goes on reading all his doubts and confusion will start clearing. It takes time to receptive to Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana because it is soul-centric knowledge whereas all accumulated knowledge are egocentric.
Formless path highlights all the obstacles in the inner journey and how to overcome these obstacles. All accumulated knowledge is of no use in path of wisdom.
I am not trying to prove my views, but it is for every seeker, who is in the path of truth to realize himself “What is truth, “and “What is untruth?” to assimilate the Self –Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.
Adyathmic Discussion --307
Until
one becomes aware of the existence of the formless witness of the three
states the ignorance will prevail and the three states are considered
as individual experiences. Thus it is necessary mentally trace the
existence of the formless witness in order to realize the formless
witness, which is in the form of consciousness alone is real and the
three states are mere mirage created out of consciousness.
How man and his world can exist without waking experience. Whatever we are discussing, we are discussing within the waking experience. One has to know: whether physical body and the world are within the mind or the mind is within the physical body? The mind, physical body, ego and the world are present only, when the whole experience of the waking/dream is present. And mind is absent, when the waking or dream experience is absent. Thus one has to conclude the mind as the whole waking or dream experience. Thus the mind appears and disappears as waking/dream experience. All your arguments are truth only on the base of the ego, which is the false self, within the false experience (waking). The individual experiences within the waking are as real as dream. -FORMLESS PATH
How man and his world can exist without waking experience. Whatever we are discussing, we are discussing within the waking experience. One has to know: whether physical body and the world are within the mind or the mind is within the physical body? The mind, physical body, ego and the world are present only, when the whole experience of the waking/dream is present. And mind is absent, when the waking or dream experience is absent. Thus one has to conclude the mind as the whole waking or dream experience. Thus the mind appears and disappears as waking/dream experience. All your arguments are truth only on the base of the ego, which is the false self, within the false experience (waking). The individual experiences within the waking are as real as dream. -FORMLESS PATH
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Divine Khan dear santtosh , when all else is illusion then what about the rest of people around us ? and if there are no people then whome we are talking to ?
Santthosh Kumaar
Dear Divine Khan,
Illusion
Sage Sri Sankara and Maya or illusion
VlSHNUVARDHANA, the King of the Hoysalas, was a Vaishnavite and was greatly incensed at the doctrine taught by Sri, Sankara that everything here below is an illusion. He wanted to teach the exponent of this doctrine a lesson. So he invited the then Sri, Sankara to his palace. That holy man went there and stoutly maintained that everything in this world was illusion. The king had arranged to let loose an infuriated elephant against Sri, Sankara. The beast rushed at Sri, Sankara who took to a precipitate flight to save himself.
'Oh, Venerable Sir,' shouted the king, 'why do you run so fast seeing that the elephant is only an illusion?'
'Oh, king,' said Sri,Sankara in his course of his flight, 'my running too is an illusion. Everything in this world is an illusion.’
Similarly, the experiencing birth, life, death and the world are within the illusion. Due to ignorance, the illusion is experienced as reality. The illusion is present in the form of ‘I’ or mind. Mind is present in the form of universe. Universe appears as waking or dream and disappears as deep sleep. The three states are one in essence and that essence is consciousness. The consciousness (soul) is the innermost self. On the standpoint of the innermost self the three states are illusory.
Thus experiencing the birth, life, death and the world within the illusion (waking or universe) with the illusory self (waking entity or ego), within the illusory experience (waking), has to be illusion.
The illusion is created, and sustained, and finally dissolves as consciousness, which is the innermost Self. Since, there is no second thing other than the consciousness (soul); the consciousness itself is ultimate truth or Brahman. The one who has realized this truth for him this illusion is passing show because he is fully aware of the fact that his body, his ego and his experience of the world to be consciousness. Practical peoples approach is more practical, and they are stuck with the reality of the practical life within the practical world, they take it as real whereas Gnani sees his body his ego and his experience of the world as consciousness.
Divine Khan so i am your illusion or your are my illusion ? or both of us illusion of someone else ? (please don't mind , these are serious questions i am facing )
Santthosh Kumaar
Dream become unreal when waking takes place. That means the dream entity, people within the dream and the dream world becomes unreal. Same way the waking entity and people within the waking experience and the waking world becomes unreal when wisdom dawns.
A person, who stamped his foot on the ground to refute to show the world, is real, ignore that in dream he would do exactly the same--stamp his dream foot on the ground and assert it to be real.
Divine Khan
i completely understand and do agree with what you say about three states and so on , its only possible to have these states when one look at them subjectively , as the source of consciousness but that moment , you turn out to be the only one who knows this entire world and every other reality is just a thought in my own mind , so who are you then ? if you think you are a conscious being then i too think the same and none of us can prove each other's independent existence , this leads to solipsism and its panicking when we see state of solipsism in real , believe me :)
Santthosh Kumaar
When self is neither the waking entity nor the self is dream entity but self is the formless knower of the three states. The self is not an individual because it pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states as their formless substance and witness. In reality the formless substance witness are one in essence. That essence is soul or consciousness, the innermost self. As one's understanding matures than the wisdom dawns.
Santthosh Kumaar For Gnani his body is not body, his ego is not ego, his experience of the world is not world because he is fully aware of the fact that his body, his ego, his experience of the world are mere mirage created out of consciousness. Thus all the three states are mere mirage created out of consciousness. In self awareness the form,time and space are one in essence.
47 minutes ago · · 1
Santthosh Kumaar U R welcome dear Divine Khan. I admire your humility. thank you . have blissful time.
As an individual one may believe in rebirth as they may have come across many cases of rebirth
As an individual one may believe in rebirth as they may have come across many cases of rebirth. From the ultimate standpoint the present birth, life itself is a happenings within the illusion. Thus whatever takes place within the illusion bound to be illusion.
Deeper self-search reveals the fact that, the self is neither the body nor the ego but self is birth-less because it is formless consciousness. Consciousness, which is the true self pervades in everything and everywhere in universe, which is mere illusion. Thus the birth, life and death, which take place within the illusion is bound to be illusion.
Thus, there is no second thing exists other than the soul, which is in the form of consciousness. Thus the birth, life, death, rebirth and reincarnation and Avatar are mere illusion on the standpoint of the consciousness, which is the true self. The consciousness also identified by different people with different name such as God / Spirit/ Brahman/Christ/Buddha.
The reincarnation is based on the karma theory. The karma theory is based on the birth, life and death. The birth, life and death are reality only on the base of the false self. Thus whatever based on the false self is bound to be false hood. By accepting karma theory is accepting the falsehood as reality. Thus whatever is based on the birth identity will not yield any truth. If one accepts the karma theory then it is impossible to treat the world as illusion. All the pundits’ explanation of karma theory carries no weight on realm of truth from the ultimate standpoint.
When the self is not form but the self is formless soul, how the karma will affect the birthless self.
That Karma which is done in a previous life which produces the present life is mere religious theory. ‘Ego’ [I] is not the self, and the true self is birthless entity, because it is formless. Karma theory has no value in the realm of truth, because self has no birth. The one which is born, lives and dies is the false entity within the false experience.
Essence of scriptures: - Dehum- Nahum-Kohum –Sohum – which indicates the body is not the self – the self is that. Which clearly indicates the self is without the body. Therefore, the self is the formless knower of the body and the world. Without the body and the world, the self is free from birth life and death. Therefore, karma theory, which is based on the idea of birth, life, death and rebirth are part of the illusion from ultimate standpoint. Thus one has to learn to view and judge the worldview from ultimate standpoint to know what is truth and what is not truth.