Saturday, March 9, 2013

Adyathmic Discussion -355 (It is not that one should pore over the ancient scriptures.

Even after so many centuries have passed since Sri, Sankara appeared; yet it is very hard to find his true teachings understood anywhere in the world, because so few could rise to his level. 

Sage Sri, Sankara gave religion and scholasticism and yoga no less than philosophy, to the world. He was great enough to be able to do so. His commentary on Mandukya is pure philosophy, but many of his other books are presented from a religious standpoint to help those who cannot rise up to philosophy. 

Ultimate truth or Brahman can be established and conformed mentally by soul-centric reason independent of scriptures. It is possible also to show the unreality of the objective universe even from well directed pure reasoning. 

The scripture are for the ordinary man who are immersed in practical life within the practical world, who finds security in the idea of causality and thus in the idea of God. 

Those of superior intelligence, have no need of this idea of divine causality, and can therefore dispense with Vedas and arrive at the truth of Non-Dualism by pure reason. 

People, who did not recognize the authority of the scriptures, will be able to prove the truth of non-dualistic by means of reason alone. Ultimate truth does not need the support of any Scripture or Revelation like the Veda. It is based, not upon the varying theological fancies, which are as numerous as the sands of the sea, but upon reason, the common heritage of all mankind, irrespective of colour or creed or clime. :--FORMLESS PATH

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  • Rs Mani Scriptures particularly the Upanishads, do not attempt to "establish" the ultimate Truth. When you say by "reasoning" i.e. "Ultimate truth or Brahman can be established and conformed mentally by soul-centric reason independent of scriptures." how does one start this reasoning independently without the help of anyone, as many do not know that there is Ultimate Truth, and they are ignorant about that. Teachings as in Scriptures aid one to take up the reasoning. Independently one cannot do the reasoning, "swatantrena aatmavicharam na kuryat"!
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  • Santthosh Kumaar Sri, Sankara himself had often said that his philosophy was based on Sruti, or revealed scripture. This may be because Sri, Sankara addressed the ordinary man, who finds security in the idea of causality and thus in the idea of God—and Revelation is indispensable to prove the latter. He believed that those of superior intelligence, have no need of this idea of divine causality, and can therefore dispense with Sruti and arrive at the truth of Non-Dualism by pure reason. 

    Lots scholars will teach that all is yourself, but none of them can show that this is so, none has analyzed it scientifically, and none can prove it. Rational proof is required, so that one arrive at knowing the ultimate truth or Brahman i.e. Gnana. Theirs is mere dogma, parrotism, repetition of what they read in scripture. Authoritarianism merely assumes as true what another says, but what has yet to be proved. 

    Consciousness is that which knows everything, that which sees. Consciousness alone remains after one gets rid of all thoughts and ideas by identification with self. Consciousness is only the seer; it is not Brahman that is an error. It becomes Brahman only after soulcentric reasoning.
  • Rs Mani Consciousness is Brahman and there is no "becoming" as what becomes can become also. Consciousness appears to give the platform for all knowledge, as consciousness per se has nothing there to know because it alone remains and where is the other to be known.
  • Santthosh Kumaar Consciousness is the root element of the universe. From consciousness the universe comes into existence. In the consciousness the universe resides. And into the consciousness the universe is dissolved. Consciousness is the parent of all that is there is. 

    The consciousness is the only reality, and the universe to but an illusory manifestation. 
    The Veda serves only as the starting point. What one has to learn from Veda must be understood through the exercise of reason, as far as reason might go. And what one has understood must be realized in one’s life. 

    It is not that one should pore over the ancient scriptures. There is no need to study first then realize. One has to realize first then only he will know ‘what is truth’ and ‘what is untruth’.

    • Rs Mani What is it that "One has to realize first then only he will know ‘what is truth’ and ‘what is untruth’. Does it mean What is Truth and what is Untruth is to be known after Realization? What is the difference between Realizing and Knowing in our context? If one does not know what truth is, he has ignorance and removal of any ignorance including ignorance of truth, is possible only through knowledge alone. For this one has to use the right means of knowledge and through reasoning the ignorance cannot go!
    • Santthosh Kumaar Sri, Sankara says in VivekaChudamani :- 

      56. Neither by Yoga, nor by Sankhya, nor by work, nor by learning, but by the realisation of one's identity with Brahman is Liberation possible, and by no other means. 
      58. Loud speech consisting of a shower o
      f words, the skill in expounding the Scriptures, and likewise erudition - these merely bring on a little personal enjoyment to the scholar, but are no good for Liberation.

      59. The study of the Scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known.

      60. The Scriptures consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely causes the mind to ramble. Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of the Self.

      61. For one who has been bitten by the serpent of Ignorance, the only remedy is the knowledge of Brahman. Of what avail are the Vedas and (other) Scriptures, Mantras (sacred formulae) and medicines to such a one?

      62. A disease does not leave off if one simply utter the name of the medicine, without taking it; (similarly) without direct realisation one cannot be liberated by the mere utterance of the word Brahman.
    • Santthosh Kumaar The ignorance will not vanish without wisdom. Wisdom will dawn only when the waking entity will realize it itself is not the self, but the self is birthless soul which witnesses the coming and going of the three states without the physical apparatus. Thus it is necessary to realize the formless witness (soul) and the three states (witnessed) are one in essence in order to realize the form, time and space (universe) are one in essence.
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      • Santthosh Kumaar The Self –Knowledge or brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is goal of the true seeker. Self-knowledge is end of all egocentric knowledge. 
        Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is declared by the Indian sages in the past has to be mentally excavated from labyrinths of philosophy. So many conceptual divisions invented by teachers of philosophy by their excessive analysis and different idea of truth and interpretations. All these concepts and ideas are never ending process. 
        The seeker of truth need not take the path of doubt and confusion, which takes him nowhere. Fortunate is the seeker who does not lose himself in the labyrinths of these theoretical philosophies. By perfect understanding of ‘what is what’ leads to nondual self-awareness. Seeker has to behave in a normal and sane way and silently reflect on the subject constantly. 
        There is no body, no ego and no experience of the world in realm of truth because the body and the world are one in essence. That essence is consciousness. 
        The one who has the firm conviction that, he is an individual separate from the world and world existed prior to him and he is born in it afterwards is egocentric. And he is unfit to grasp the ultimate truth or Brahman. 
        Seeker has to trace the source of the mind or universe to realize the fact that, mind and its formless substance and the source are one in essence. 
        The truth is hidden within the mind which is in the form of universe and it requires deeper self-search mental excavation, the removal of the ignorance, which is the cause of experiencing the illusion or duality as reality.
        Grasping the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by illusion or waking or universe, is to be attained through soulcentric reasoning, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted egocentric arguments. 
        People think self-knowledge is very difficult to achieve or understand. Self-knowledge which has to be acquired carefully and gradually, through deeper self-search.

        In the past, spirituality was treated not as a separate subject but as a part of religion, but it is not so. Religion is based on the form and spirituality is based on formless. Therefore, spirituality is nothing to with religion. Spirituality is a rational enquiry regarding all that is known to exist. Every one, each to the extent to which one's reasoning power admits, is by nature free to exercise this faculty, at whatever stage one may be. One is able to devote himself exclusively to a pursuit of the highest Truth, by means of reason.

        In the ancient time, religious, Yogic or mystic disciplines, which were not an end in itself, considered to be means for self-realization. But such discipline is almost impossible task for the modern man to adopt. Day by day modern man is becoming aware of the fact that religion and yoga are nothing to do with pursuit of truth. .

        The modern mindset is pre-eminently scientific owing to the great progress that science has made. And the best method of freeing the one from his inaccurate ways of thinking is to imbue him as fully as possible with the scientific spirit. It is therefore only one who possesses a clear knowledge of its methods and results i.e., who is able to make reason the highest means of enquiry that would be fit for self-knowledge

        Vedanta itself admits its highest Truth that is Atman or Brahman cannot be reached by any path other than that of reason and unless the reason is sharper than the ‘Edge of a razor'.

        Reason on the true base is the highest means of attaining self- knowledge. Religion, theology, mystic practice and yoga are not the means to acquire non-dual wisdom. Absence of reason is absence of wisdom.