Science cannot go beyond physicality because the truth cannot be traced with laboratory conditions.

 Both modern  science and religion offer hypotheses and theories but there is one vital difference--science begins  with facts which it collects; religion begins  with fancies. Science evolves its hypotheses from such facts, religion from fancies.

Science declares  that oxygen combines with hydrogen to give water. And it also declare  oxygen is protons or electrons. But in pursuit of truth  the whole physical existence is considered as illusion and science and its invention ,which are based on the physical existence is limited to physical existence . The truth is within the but it is  beyond the  physical existence.  The science demands physical proof.  But the physical proof is part of the illusion. Hence science cannot go beyond physicality because the truth cannot be traced with laboratory conditions.  Deeper  Inquiry, analysis and reasoning  is required if one  wants to push its quest deeply enough.

Common people and primitive minds fall into faulty thinking through their inherited conditioning , such faulty thinking and reasoning  makes them accept the experience of birth, life and death as reality ; taking what one sees through  the senses  as real, taking what is apparent obvious and superficial as true because it is less troublesome.

Many People adopt the attitude that what   they  know is truth. And what others say id false. This attitude  makes them not to verify anything other then what they know.   One need to be rational, not merely logical. Logic is has its value only in physical plane.

As one  advances towards spiritual plane he sees the logic underlying experience and becomes more rational. His reasoning is two-fold--implicit and explicit.

There is a need of  facts of  physical proof in scientific invention  , whereas in pursuit of truth  the proof has to be grasped mentally and realized.  Therefore, the truth is realized only by few who takes this  mental pursuit.  “Whatever  facts revealed ,which is  un-contradictable has to accepted as truth.

The truth based on the formless soul/self  is worthwhile; without it, one has  something else, not truth.  Most people  refuse to venture into pursuit of truth ; because they do not want to go into the root of things.

The seeker of truth has to study, inquire and reason in  the beginning of  the pursuit of truth,  because it is absolutely necessary  in truth-seeking.

Without the soul/self nothing can exits, whatever that exists is dependent on the soul

Without the soul/self nothing can exits, whatever that exists is dependent on the soul/spirit for its existence. There is no need to flatter oneself that every thought and fancy that he has  is the product of his  own volition.  But since he is  himself is  the products of this soul/spirit/self , it would be illogical to the last degree to presume that his  individual ideas and fancies are exclusively his  own creations and have no relationship to the the soul/spirit/self  which he and his experience of the world  is  but a product of it. 

 Mind is mere illusion created out of the soul/spirit/  consciousness, it would then be ridiculous to suppose that the thoughts and ideas of an individual experience  cannot  have an entirely independent existence without the soul .

The formless soul, the innermost self is the subject not an object

 

Q-No movement, no change, no difference, no self, no other... yet, experience happens, the world moves, form is formless, and the one writing is the one reading.

The joy of it, is its own unalterable nature, as it has always been, and shall be.

Beyond this, much more and nothing at all.

A:The formless  soul, the innermost self  is the subject not an object. the three states are an object to the formless subject. All moments, change ,difference, conflicts and false self or ego and experiences  are happening within  in the object. The subject is is apart and unaffected because it is not an entity or identity within the object.  Until one considers the ego as self or the subject, it leads to intellectuality or egocentricity.  And one thinks form is formless, formless is form.  When the wisdom dawns one becomes fully aware there is nothing ever existed,  noting exists, and noting is going to exist other then the formless soul/spirit.  Therefore, the experience of  diversity is mere mirage ,which appears and disappears as mind, in which man perceives the world. Nothingness is the nature of the true  self or soul.

 Nothingness[Soul or consciousness ] is the formless substance and witness of  the mirage[three states]. Understanding the fact that, the soul is the self , the mirage[ignorance] vanishes in its unadulterated non-dual nature.   The one who is writing and the one who is reading is part of the mirage , the beyond is within the mirage and it is without the mirage.

The nature of the soul, the innermost self is awareness.

 

The nature of the soul, the innermost  self is awareness.  The soul is present in the form of consciousness. In ignorance the soul, the innermost self remains in physical awareness(duality or waking) .When ignorance vanishes through wisdom  than  the self is in awareness of its own formless non-dual nature.

One has no  the true self is not physical but the formless spirit.  The spirit or soul or the self  is in the form of consciousness. The  consciousness that gives one  the  awareness of  the three states. 

The ignorance of the true self is the cause of experiencing the duality as reality.  The ignorance  vanishes  through realization of  the  true Self, which is the soul or consciousness or spirit. 

The true the Self   does not lie in our body, in our brain, or our ego, but it is the essence of the dual and non-dual experiences ,which comes and goes as waking dream and deep sleep.

How does one see various objects, scenes and persons during dreams? If the dream is experienced without the physical body, then what is it that experiences the dream? Therefore, there must be a formless witness of the dream world. This formless witness is the same witness that is witnessed this Waking experience also. Therefore the Waking experience and dream both are witnessed by one and only formless witness of which the seeker is not aware of. Since he considers the physical body (ego or waking entity) as the self or witness and views and judges the world-view on the standpoint of false self, within the false experience. The formless witness can exist with or without the waking or dream. But waking OR dream cease to exist, without the formless witness.

The gross Waking experience is merged into the mental experience in the sense that, when it is analyzed, it is found to exist inseparably in and as the mind alone. All "spiritual" planes are really mental: those who regard them as different or higher are deceiving themselves. The dream becomes unreal when the waking takes place; similarly the waking becomes unreal when the wisdom dawns. Therefore everything has to be grasped mentally, not argued on the intellectual point of view, which is limited to the false physical entity within the false experience.

The unreal is created out of real, and when one views and judges on the standpoint unreal (ego or waking entity) then there is duality. When one is able to view and judge on the standpoint of real (soul or consciousness)then there is only non -duality. Therefore, when the wisdom dawns then there is neither duality, nor non duality, only reality. This is my views and conviction.

All these confusion will go on, until man thinks, he is an individual and apart from the world, and the world existed prior to him and he is born in it afterwards. Therefore, it is necessary to know the fact the true self is not ego, but the true self is the soul, and stop viewing and judging the world-view on the standpoint of the physical self [ego], and one has to view and judge on the true self (soul or consciousness)  to realize the fact that, the world along with man is illusion. The formless substance from which the illusion is created is Atman. Thus Atman is Brahman/ultimate reality. Thus no second thing exists on the standpoint of Atman or consciousness as self. Thus there is no experience nor the experiencer in non-dual reality but only self-awareness.

One should realize the true Self as the only Principle.

The limiting adjuncts from soul or consciousness or spirit down to a grain  are all wholly unreal.  Therefore one should realize the true  Self as the only Principle.

That in which something is imagined to exist through error, is, when rightly discriminated, that thing itself, and not distinct from it.  When the error is gone, the reality about the three states  falsely perceived becomes the spirit  or soul or consciousness.  The three states  are in reality the soul or consciousness or spirit.

The soul is the innermost  self . The innermost  Self is the creator of the mirage . The  innermost Self is sustainer of the mirage. The  innermost Self is the destroyer of the ignorance, The  innermost Self is ultimate truth and the innermost  Self is all this three states.  Nothing exists except the innermost  Self (soul or consciousness).

The Self is within, and the Self is without; the Self is before and the Self is behind; the Self pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states.

Whatever is  known through speech is nothing but soul or consciousness or spirit; there is nothing besides soul or consciousness or spirit, which exists beyond the utmost range of the mind.  Are the necklace, ring and other ornaments  to be distinct from the metal of which they are composed?  It is the deluded man who talks of “Self” and “mind ”, as an effect of the wine of illusion.

What is the use of dilating on this subject?  The three states are  no other than soul or consciousness or spirit ; this whole diversity  is soul or consciousness or spirit  Itself; the soul or consciousness or spirit is  without a second; and it is an indubitable fact that people of enlightened minds who know their identity with soul/spirit  and have realized the fact that   their connection with the three states is mere mirage, live palpably unified with soul or consciousness or spirit  as eternal Knowledge.

The verdict of all discussions on the ultimate truth  is that the the three states  are nothing but soul or consciousness  or spirit , the innermost self, and that liberation means abiding in soul or consciousness or spirit, the innermost self , the indivisible Entity.  The that soul or consciousness or spirit, the innermost self  is One without a second.

Since people  wants to keep  their body, ego, sense and their experience  intact; that just will not do.  Thus, to realize that ‘mind ’ means the manifest illusion(man and the universe)  and the formless substance and witness of the illusion is real and eternal  is the very fulfillment of non-dual wisdom.”

Duality is the nature of the mind.

The  nature of the soul is formless and non-dual . Duality is the nature of the mind.  the mind is present in the form of universe. the universe appears as waking or dream(duality)  and disappears as deep sleep(non-duality)  The three states are  sustained by the indwelling  soul . The soul is present in the form of consciousness. Consciousness  pervades everywhere and everything in all the threes states.

One has to know that the formless  soul is the womb of the mind.  Soul is  the origin of all the three states  and also its dissolution.

There exists nothing whatever higher than the soul, the innermost self. When the Mind  return to the soul, this is called awakening , liberation, freedom.  Having known the true  Self , one knows everything.  In this awakening the all the three states  is discovered to be within  the soul, the innermost  self.  All the three states are within the soul , and the soul or consciousness  is all  the three states, because they are created out of the soul or consciousness.  

This is ultimate understanding . Knowing this , one  knows ultimate truth.  If one  doesn’t know this , he is still in ignorance , regardless of how much information he has accumulated.  Without the  knowledge of the true self  , one remains ignorant and he  experiences the illusion as reality. Having known the ultimate truth , soul is  everything … without beginning , middle , end , without birth, life  or death.

The form time and space within the dream are falsehood when waking takes place. Similarly the form, time and space of the waking are also falsehood when wisdom dawns.

 

The form time and space within the dream are falsehood when waking takes place. Similarly the form, time and space of the waking are also falsehood when wisdom dawns. The wisdom dawns only when one realize the self is neither the waking entity nor the dream entity. Thus it is erroneous to judge and reason and conclude the ultimate truth on the base of waking entity and waking world because waking experience itself is illusion.

Suppose you were holding the same view in the dream, all your experiences and views are reality within the dream. The dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. Similarly the waking becomes unreal when you become aware the fact that, the self is not an individual.  Thus whatever individual experiences experienced within the waking is as unreal as dream.

 Until one thinks body as body and world as world it is impossible to grasp non-dual or Advaitic  truth, because his views and judgments are bases on physical self with the physical existence.  The individuality is reality with the waking experience but the waking experience itself is false hood. Thus holding the view as an individual within the false experience is erroneous on the ultimate point of view.  The waking is parallel dream and dream is parallel waking experience.

Scriptural Masters or Pundits teach that all is your-self, but none of them can show that this is so, none has analyzed it scientifically, and none can prove it.

Scriptural Masters or  Pundits teach that all is your-self, but none of them can show that this is so, none has analyzed it scientifically, and none can prove it. Rational proof is needed, so that one arrive at knowing truth i.e. wisdom; punditry is mere dogma, parrotism, repetition of what they read in scripture. Scriptures are not yardstick and scriptural truth is not proof.   Pundits take scriptures as authority.   Authoritarianism merely assumes as true what another says, but what has yet to be proved.

Upanishads:-

Fools dwelling in darkness, but thinking themselves wise and erudite, go round and round, by various tortuous paths, like the blind led by the blind. (Upanishads Nikhilananda -  Ch II-5 P-14)

Upanishad's say "He who thinks he knows, does not know." This means that to know anything implies a second, an object of knowledge, hence duality, i.e. no Gnana.

Second-hand knowledge of the self-gathered from books or gurus can never emancipate a man until its truth is rightly investigated and applied; only direct realisation will do that. Realise yourself, turning the mind inward. – Tripura Rahasya, 18: 89

The pursuit of truth is a mental journey. Deeper self-search  makes one aware of what truth is and what is untruth and the subconscious  will be able to reject the untruth after knowing, what is Truth. Whatever prevails after rejecting the untruth is the ultimate truth.

Pundits have to test truth in this world not in the next world.  There is no proof other then blind belief based on the scriptures, belief is not truth.  So, doctrines are not the means to realize the truth. There is no need to follow them. 

Doubts and Confusions arise when seeker finds the scriptures and yoga are inadequate or useless to quench his spiritual thirst.   Disappointments in religion or yoga or even science imply error or ignorance. Seeker reaches a stage whether he is right?" Where is the certainty that he is proceeding on right lines?" Thus doubts arise and the inquiring spirit comes and impels to search elsewhere for truth where it will not be possible even to have doubt. The test is therefore in experience. And only in non-duality, where there are no two to argue about views or to have difference of opinion can such doubtlessness be possible.  Belief depends upon unstable bases whereas certainty depends on proof.

Seeker of truth has to get rid of his doubts through deeper self-search on his own, to realize the fact that, the self is not the form but self is formless. Thus his analysis and reasoning has to be based on the formless not on the form.  By simply go on believing and accepting whatever said by the punditry will not lead one towards path of wisdom. All the doubt has to be got rid of "by the sword of Self - Knowledge."  The scriptures, yoga are not necessary if one follows the inner (formless) path.  Religion and yoga are not the means to path of wisdom. 

There is a controversy as to the meaning of Maya. One Advaitic School says it is a shakti of Brahman whereby both illusion and creation are brought about.

How do you know that it is the truth? If one bases it on the sayings of Rishis and saints, granting that they honestly believed in their experiences, there is still the query how do they know that these experiences were the truth?

Even in dream whatever experienced becomes unreal when waking takes place.  Similarly when wisdom dawns one becomes aware of the fact that, the self is neither the waking entity nor the dream entity.  Thus whatever experienced as waking experience is as real as dream.  Thus for a Gnani all the three states are mere mirage created out of consciousness, because he is fully aware of the fact that, the witness of the three states is not the body but consciousness.  A Gnani is fully aware of the fact that, his body, ego and universe are nothing but consciousness. Thus he finds the experience of any sort is play of consciousness and experience is mere mirage.  The one witnesses the experience, which is in the form of universe or mind is mere mirage.     

 Even mentally challenged people believe in what they see and feel and yet their experiences are often quite untrue. What then is it in us, which ascertains the truth of these experiences? If one says it is mystic experience, then everyone’s experience differs from another. Such disagreement does not settle the matter. Thus these are the two common sources—scriptural authority and Yogic Samadhi--but both are shown untenable because both are based on the false self-(waking entity or ego).