Adyathmic Discussion-315

FORMLESS PATH: The average man does not indulge in truth pursuit and it is difficult for him because

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  Chris Waller, Linnéa Borealis and Aishwarya Lama like this.
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    Aishwarya Lama I keep reading u mentioning the three states, Sir. Are they the body, mind and intellect. If u would kindly give an example of truth being behind falsehood, i will be grateful. Regards.
    

    4 hours ago via mobile ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    Three states are waking,dream and deep sleep. The waking is parallel dream and dream is parallel waking experience. Mind means man +his experience of the world together . The mind(I) is present n the form of universe. Universe appears as waking or dream(duality) and it disappears as deep sleep(non-duality). the formless substance and witness of the three states is the formless soul. The formless soul is present in the form of consciousness. The formless substance and witness of the three states are one in essence. That essence is consciousness(soul). Thus the three states are one in essence. Therefore there is no second thing exists other than consciousness. Thus consciousness alone is real and all else is mere mirage created out of consciousness. thus consciousness (soul or Atman) alone is ultimate truth or Brahman.

    
    

    4 hours ago · · 1
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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    The body ego and the world are within the mind. People think mind is within the body but body and the world are within the mind. If mind is there then only the body and the world are there. If mind is there than only the universe is there. If mind is there than only waking or dream is present. Thus it is necessary to know what is what to understand assimilate and realize the ultimate truth or Brahman. If one get stuck with body mind and intellect it leads to intellectuality. Intellectuality is limited to physicality. Physicality is limited to duality. Duality is is mere illusion from ultimate standpoint. Thus one has to drop all the accumulated knowledge and unlearn and what he has learnt in order acquire Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.

    
    

    4 hours ago · · 1
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    Aishwarya Lama This leaves me wondering as to how many are there to really know the formless self. Were the masters like Ramana n Nisargadatta self realised, knowing about the formless soul? Do u, Sir also know ur formless self? If yes then how did u drop all the knowledge u accumulated thru the years? I hope my queries r not bothersome. They come from an ajnani♥
    

    3 hours ago via mobile ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    Sri Ramana Maharishi Says: The self is fullness of consciousness. Therefore, there is nothing apart from it. Ramana would humorously say that if god were to be separate he would be self-less. As for Sadguru his individuality is dead. It is merged in the self like waves in the sea. so, he is the Self. The guru and god are not different for their essential nature as unlimited consciousness is the same. [Page-8 – Practical Guide To Know Yourself].

    
    

    31 minutes ago · · 1
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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    We have to grow from the inside out. None can teach us, none can make us spiritual. There is no other guru but our own soul.”
    Self-knowledge or Atma Gnana or Brahma Gnana cannot be attained by one who is without strength or earnestness or without the receptiveness and courage to accept the truth and reject the untruth. If a serious seeker strives sincerely by means of inquiry, analysis and soulcentric reasoning, he will be able to realize it.
    It is only seekers sincerity and earnestness in his spiritual pursuit, the knowledge started revealing on its own. Anyone who has humility and patience and is sincere and ready to drop their accumulated dross and receptive to accept the truth will enter non-dual Self-Awareness when his conviction becomes firm.

    
    

    27 minutes ago · · 1
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    Santthosh Kumaar Any one who claims he is self-realized than he is not self-realized. Upanishads say :-"He who thinks he knows, does not know." This means that to know anything implies a second, an object of knowledge, hence duality, i.e. no Gnana.
    

    20 minutes ago · · 1
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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    Sri, Sankara's commentary:-
    
    
    Page 489: "The knower of Brahman (self-realized or Gnani) wears no signs. Page 500 asks in effect "Tell us what you know, show it, and let us examine it under the mental microscope." It means we must bring notions and beliefs out of vagueness into clearness. It also criticizes the mystics who claim superior knowledge but who cannot communicate it for purposes of verification.
    
    On page 482: On Gnani: "The knower of Brahman wears no signs. Gives up the insignia of a monk's life,…his signs are not manifest, nor his behavior."

    
    

    about a minute ago ·

One sees the water when there is a reflection of the light on the sand, mirage

 One sees the water when there is a reflection of the light on the sand, mirage. In dream everything is within the consciousness because the universe of the dream is in consciousness, yet different, likewise in the waking experience, the whole universe appears in consciousness  only. One has to use his common sense in the waking experience. Because one is attached to the body and the world; he thinks his body and the world are not consciousness.

One cannot be aware of his body and the world; and all his individual experience (including something of the past in the form of knowledge based on purely memory also) without the consciousness. Thus, for anything to exist consciousness is the main ingredient, therefore, everything is dependent on consciousness because everything is consciousness. The diversity is reality because; one doesn’t consider his body, world and his individual experiences as consciousness.

The ignorance is ever present in waking experience makes one experience the illusion as reality. The waking experience is only an appearance in which the individual perceives the world as a person and it changes every moment, at no time it is unchanging; then where has it disappeared in deep sleep or when the dream experience was on. Deeper Inquiry, analysis reasoning reveals the fact that, the self is not physical but it is consciousness. Then who is the knower of these three states, which comes and goes in succession.

One has to analyze the mind in waking experience then he will be able to understand this. One mistakes the body to be the matter and everything else as mind. One thinks his body is matter and he cannot understand the fact that, the body including the world undefined is mere illusion created out of consciousness. Until he thinks the illusion as reality he remains believing the birth, life, death and world as reality. Therefore, it is necessary to know and realize the self is not physical but self is consciousness undefined to cross the threshold of duality.


Dissolution of the mind, daily in deep sleep, in consciousness undefined, as it has emanated from and in consciousness. The waking experience is converted in to dream and the dream is converted into deep sleep. One does not know this because he does not know the three states are mere illusion and again he is afraid his body and individuality and the world will go. He cannot tolerate to lose his physical existence. Constantly thinking of the birth entity has concertizes the idea of birth, life and death, thus, the physical existence has become an actuality. The same way one has to think constantly about the fact that, the self is not physical but formless consciousness to dismantle the physical structure built on the baseless undefined foundation.


It is difficult to say body and the world as illusion within the illusion without inquiry, analysis and reasoning. Only after deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning, one becomes aware of the existence of the witness, which is in the form consciousness and become aware of the fact that the physical existence is mere mirage created out of consciousness. Therefore, whatever one knows as person of the world is part of the mirage created out of consciousness. When the mirage is created out of consciousness then how the appearance in which man perceives the world can be true.


Just as ice block dissolves into water or ornament in to gold, so the mind undefined which has emanated from consciousness dissolves as consciousness. Thus, no second thing exits other than consciousness.

The time [the past present and future] is part and parcel of illusion. Until one thinks the self is form, he is bound to experience the time and space as reality. The only away to overcome from the form, time and space undefined is to realize the self is not physical but the self is consciousness.

People consider themselves to be knowledgeable because they have read books and well informed about the subject. But all these accumulated knowledge is not wisdom. One can’t get non-dual wisdom from accumulating knowledge.

Whether the knowledge accumulated are scriptures or something from more recently published books are mere pointers to truth but not wisdom. First, whether one is aware of it or not, as he reads he is imposing his own cultural conditioning, biases, experiences, and prior knowledge onto what he is reading; this is how his thinking faculty works. He “makes sense" of new things by associating them with things he already knows.

Most of the time, this is useful. But if the "new thing" is utterly different from anything one has been exposed to before, he is almost certain to distort it to make it fit into pre-existing conceptual boxes. So much of knowledge is about changing perspective, but that's hard to do when he is twisting the knowledge around to fit the perspectives he is already has.

As one goes on digging mentally and on more things will be revealed to him through inner revelation, which makes him get firm conviction of what is what.


One has to grasp the existence of the formless witness (soul or consciousness) of the three states mentally to realize the three states are mere illusion. And focusing attention on the formless witness constantly one will be able to establish the reasoning base on the base of formless witness. And when the reasoning base is established on the base of formless witness it becomes easy to understand and assimilate the Self-Knowledge or  Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.

But it takes much time to establish in consciousness because one has to overcome the physical conditioning by realizing the self is not physical but it is formless.