Thursday, July 14, 2011

Adyathmic Discussion -24

Santosh Kunte
More words & more experiences; that’s the general direction of mind; mind hardly stops; in the very act of stopping; the process of information gathering is arrested; in this; is the revelation! (To be Contn;)
July 5 at 4:56pm · ·


  • Naomi O'Connor and Krishna Gopal like this.

    • Santosh Kunte The job of a master is to stop the moving mind and bring it to stillness; not the stillness fabricated by mind but that which has remained absolutely immaculate; here; there is fulfillment beyond description or conditions; to come to this virgin place, is monumental task, & yet it’s absolutely effortless, for the one, who has come to existential edge.
      July 5 at 4:56pm · · 3 people

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      The mind itself is an experience. The mind is in the form of universe appears as waking or dream and disappears as deep sleep. Dream is an experience. Similarly the waking also is an experience. The dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. Similarly the waking becomes unreal when wisdom dawns. The wisdom dawns when one becomes aware of the fact that, the self is neither the waking entity nor the dream entity, but it is the formless substance and witness of the three states. That formless substance and witness is consciousness,which is the innermost self. On the standpoint of the inner most self , the three states are mere illusion created out of consciousness. There is no second thing exist because the whole universe is created out of consciousness. Consciousness alone is real and eternal and ultimate truth or Brahman.

      July 5 at 7:28pm · · 1 person

    • Mahesh Aswaney Hello Santthosh whats the proof that there is nothing beyond pl dont quote scriptures here or regression ad infinitum just give me a straight forward answer this is another mind game to escape from the fear of mortality and is a mere rationalisation
      July 6 at 9:02pm ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Dear Maheshji, there is no need of scriptures in pursuit of truth. rational attitude is very much needed in pursuit of truth. I quote scriptures because scriptures itself declare that the truth lies beyond scriptural knowledge. The truth is hidden within the mind but it is beyond the mind. It cannot be described in one or two words but it takes deeper self-search to understand assimilate and realize it. And one cannot realize it by mere argument based on the ego ,which is false self. The mind, which is in the form of universe, is unreal because it is the "Seen", like a dream. The reality and existence of the soul, which is in the form of consciousness, the most fundamental substance of the mind, which is in the form of universe, cannot be questioned, for this truth is self-evident. The consciousness is the true self. In fact, the self does not need any proof.

      The self is self-evident, and no one can deny its existence for it is the basis of all the three states. Everyone is conscious of the existence of his self and never thinks that it is in the form of consciousness.

      To doubt the existence of the self would be a contradiction in terms because then one would doubt the existence of the very doubter who engages in doubt. The existence of the doubter itself is based on the consciousness. Thus he has to find the reality of his own existence.

      Without the existence of the self, which is in the form of consciousness it is impossible for us to entertain the idea or even to be capable of refutation. Because the knowledge of the self is not established through the so-called means of right knowledge, it is self-established.

      Thus, the very existence of understanding and its functions presuppose the intelligence known as the self, that is self-established, different from these functions and on which they depend.

      Both the possibility of knowledge and the means of knowledge have relevance if there would be the self that is the source of all knowledge. Therefore, consciousness, which is the true self, is beyond all doubt, "for it is the essential nature of him who denies it. Therefore, it is the nature of the self, not its reality or existence, which is to be proved. The self must seek itself in order to find what it is, not that it is.

      Consciousness pervades all the three states as their formless substance and witness. It is formless without any parts, without qualities, spotless, having no abilities like going and coming, etc., devoid of ideas of `me' and `mine' and also of desire, aversion and effort.

      It possessing no organs like the intellect, etc., free from attributes. It is neither the breath nor the breather. It is untouched by the individual experiences of birth, life and death, which happens within the universe. The self, pervades all the three states. It is within the three states and it is the apart from the three states. It is apart because it is not and entity of identity within the three states.

      Consciousness is the deathless, birthless, eternal and real substance in all the three states. It is the unchanging reality behind the changing mind, which is in the form of universe. It is pure consciousness and it not affected by time, space and causality. It is limitless and without a second. In order to understand the true nature of consciousness one must discriminate the formless witness from three states. thus to realize the true existence one has to first become fully aware of the fact that the mind is not within the body but body and the experience of the world are within the mind. than only it is possible to grasp and realize what is beyond form, time and space. --please read blogs , you will find answers for all your doubts.
      http://sunthosh-formlesspa​th.blogspot.com/

      July 7 at 9:21am · · 1 person

    • Santosh Kunte
      Even after the revelation of it; mind comes back due to residues and still searches it as object of perception but do what one can; it can not be objectified.


      In the subject-object duality and usage of language as means of communication ; r...See More

      July 7 at 10:02am · · 1 person

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      The object is mere mirage created out of the formless subject,which is consciousness. the three states are an object to the formless subject. in reality there is no subject and object because both are one in essence. until one is ignorant o...See More

      July 7 at 11:38am · · 2 people

    • Mahesh Aswaney
      Hello Santthosh ,agreed the duality is a mirage ,that it is a projection on the reality i.e conciousness and that it is a self fulfilling prophecy but to reduce everything to conciousness because all three states are reducible to it is very...See More

      July 7 at 7:32pm ·

    • Santosh Kunte
      Maheshbhai; very valid; the conciousness is witness to all three states is not enough to show, it is the absolute. It all are mere words; however words points to absolute but absolute itself, can not be formulated.


      As regards life remainin...See More

      July 7 at 8:15pm · · 1 person

    • Mahesh Aswaney Santosh bhai today you have something which is a picaso of spiritualism beyond a point keep the canvass open
      July 7 at 11:54pm ·

    • Mahesh Aswaney
      the things like comnciousness is god has picked up lot of quarrel with the western thinkers ,where as the supreme whatever is something indescribable so thats why buddha said dont ask me what it is because it is a chasm which is beyond and the mind wants to be a phantom of conciousness did u see the god realized ones who are still not there so much ore egoistic so gita in chapter 2 best describes it is witness but doesnt describe it like the modern art

      July 8 at 12:03am ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      When the witness[soul or consciousness] and witnessed[three states] are one in essence , there is no second-thing exists other than consciousness. The self is within the three states but it is without the three states. It is within the th...See More

      July 8 at 7:59am ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      We exist within the illusion. thus our burden and bondage ,pain and pleasure are reality within the illusion ,which is in the form of waking experience. The consciousness [soul] is the true self. The true self is the source of the three st...See More

      July 8 at 8:17am ·

    • Mahesh Aswaney
      Santthosh thanks for that very persistent and brilliant explanation but may i pl request you to addres the following issue with more clarity:.Your example that doubter and doubting ,doubted triology dissolving into substratum is again ratio...See More

      July 8 at 1:15pm ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar Dear Maheshji, I just posted a blog - Our individual life is nothing to do with ultimate truth or Brahman @--http://sunthosh/-formlesspath.blogspot.com​-- you will find detailed explanation for your doubts.
      July 8 at 6:13pm · · 1 person

    • Mahesh Aswaney Thanks i find you are a beautiful soul or perhaps you are the soul.......
      July 8 at 9:27pm ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar Thank you for your kind words. We are many in ignorance but well all are in reality.
      July 8 at 10:21pm ·

Posted by sunthosh2009@hotmail.com at 6:34 AM
Labels:

It is only who base on ‘I’ or ‘I AM’ as self, argue and quarrel amongst themselves




By becoming more and more intellectual one becomes more and more intoxicated to individuality. The intellectuality is limited to duality.  In realm of truth the intellectuality is replaced by non-dual wisdom.  There is nothing exist other than formless non dual existence. Therefore, there is   no individual to become sane or insane. There is no second thing exists, other than consciousness.  Everything is one, that is, unity in diversity. The curiosity, urge cannot be imposed on others.  it has to sprout within. One need not become holy Shepard because the holy Shepard is within in to guide every seeker. Until one is aiming to be a master, Guru or teacher, he will never reach his destination. One has to share his knowledge with the fellow seeker not to make them his followers but only direct them if they are interested to travel beyond form, time and space.  It is foolish to impose our idea on others because everyone is not in same level of understanding.  Every one's inner work is on.


When they are ripe enough they will understand, assimilate and realize on their own.  If they are ready and sharp enough they will grasp it instantly and they will reach their destination with lesser time and effort. Thus preaching, teaching is not wisdom, but by very careful reasoning, seeker has to determine the nature of reality. Thinking in right direction alone helps seeker determining the nature of reality.

The sugar cannot know itself its sweetness. The true self without ignorance is without the experience of duality or illusion. Thus one has to base on the sugar not on its sweetness. Without the sugar there is no sweetness. Similarly without the consciousness, the three states cease to exist as reality.

Seeker of truth is in the in the quest of the knowledge  of  ever being conscious of  eternality of one self , and understanding, assimilating and realizing  it inextricably linked to the what constitute bondage and liberation. 

Non-attachment for the three states is freedom or liberation from experiencing the illusory birth, life, death and world as reality. Love for practical life within the practical world is bondage. 

By deeper thinking and realizing the self is not the form but self  is formless consciousness and mentally shifting the attention from the objectified subject to the formless subject ,which is consciousness the inner most self. By realizing the formless consciousness as the inner most self, one realizes the consciousness alone exists the three states are mere mirage created out of consciousness.   Thus the three states are unreal created out of consciousness, which alone is real.    

The one who discriminates between the Real and the unreal, whose focus of attention is turned away from the illusory physical existence, who possesses calmness and who is longing for freedom from experiencing the illusion as reality, is alone considered qualified to take path of reason.

People who are yearning for spiritual truth will not find it through intellectual speculation and assumption. Intellectual truth is individual truth. Love implies duality and love is individual feelings within the falsehood. Love is necessary and valuable in the stated of ignorance but it is not the means to acquire wisdom.  Love is religious tool to lead life in practical world.  And Religious truth is individual truth and it is not universal truth because the religion is based on individuality. 

It becomes difficult for the orthodox cult to accept anything else as truth other than their accepted belief, which they hold as truth. Although all religious followers are participants alike in the spiritual endeavour of the world, overzealous   followers of each religion are not prepared to accord equal status to other faiths and assert the superiority of their own. Thus universal brother hood is total impossibility because it is difficult to accept anything other than their inherited belief system.        
Most of the pundits are egoic and they try to snub others who question them.  They think they are unquestionable authority.  They quote the citation from the scripters as proof without verifying the validity.  All punditry is a great obstacle in realizing the Advaitic truth expounded by the Sri, Sankara and Goudapada. 

One finds lots of differences between Adavita preaching and practice. There is need to bifurcate religion, concept of god and scriptures from Adavitic philosophy to assimilate the essence of Adavita.    

Sri, Sankara says in Brahma Sutras: that Brahman is the cause of the world, whereas in Mandukya he denies it. This is because he says that at the lower stage of understanding, the former teaching must be given, for people will get frightened as they cannot understand how the world can be without a cause, but to those in a higher stage, the truth of non-causality can be revealed. 

Sri, Sankara himself has warned us not to use ambiguous words, and to practice semantic analysis in his book "Definition of one's own Self. [" Page 199, v.24 of "Sankara's Selected Works]

Sri, Sankara founded his Advaita Vedanta either on reason independent of sruti or on sruti confirmed by reason."   Sri, Sankara's commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad, II, 1:  This [the unreality of duality] is borne out by the Srutis ... But it is possible also to show the unreality of the object world even from pure reasoning, and this second chapter is undertaken for that purpose.

 Sri, Sankara himself had often said that his philosophy was based on Sruti, or revealed scripture.  This may be because Sri, Sankara addressed the ordinary man, who finds security in the idea of causality and thus in the idea of God—and Revelation is indispensable to prove the latter.  He believed that those of superior intelligence, have no need of this idea of divine causality, and can therefore dispense with Sruti and arrive at the truth of Non-Dualism by pure reason. 

Nonduality does not need the support of any Scripture or Revelation like the Veda. For it is based, not upon the varying theological fancies, which are as numerous as the sands of the sea, but upon reason, the common heritage of all mankind, irrespective of colour or creed or clime.


When Upanishad itself declares:-   sarvam khalvidam brahma - all this (universe) is verily Brahman. By following back all of the relative appearances in the world, we eventually return to that from which it is all manifest – the non-dual reality [ Chandogya Upanishad].  

Then it is no use going roundabout way, trace the Brahman which is the formless substance and witness of the universe, which is in the form of mind.  By tracing the source of the mind or universe one will be able to realize the Brahman. 

Thus, Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is meant only for those who have intense urge, and courage to accept the truth with humility and reject the untruth. Since people start comparing with their scriptural knowledge, it becomes impossible to assimilate and realize the non-dual truth.   Therefore, there is no need to convince anyone other than our own-selves to get the firm conviction. 

Gaudapada says :- the merciful Veda teaches karma and upaasana to people of lower and middling intellect, while jnana is taught to those of higher intellect.

So they clearly indicate rituals and theories are not meant for those who are searching for the higher knowledge or wisdom.   

All the orthodox Advaitins indulge and immersed themselves in ritualistic oriented life style and preach theoretical philosophies which are obstacle in realizing the Advaitic truth.  Many chose these orthodox scholars as their gurus. But these gurus are good to learn the conceptual Advaita meant for those orthodox who believe their conduct oriented life style leads to liberation.  But those who are seeking truth have to do their own homework in order to acquire self-knowledge.

That is why in Ish Upanishads declares  :-

Vidya and Avidya both are hindrances to Self-knowledge, but Vidya is even worse than Avidya. The word Vidya is used here in a special sense; here it means worshipping gods and goddesses. By worshiping gods and goddesses you will go after death to the world of gods and goddesses. But will that help you? The time you spend there is wasted, because if you were not there you could have spent that time moving forward towards Self-knowledge, which is your goal. In the world of gods and goddesses you cannot do that, and thus you go deeper and deeper into darkness.

Avidya is Karma and therefore a hindrance. You perform Avidya - i.e., you perform Agnihotra and other sacrifices. This is a roundabout way of purifying the mind, and it is also groping in the dark. But it may not have as heavy a toll on your time and energy as the other.
Therefore, self-realization is necessary in order to realize the ultimate truth or god.  Self-realization is real God realization.

People are ignorant and they are unaware of the reality of their true existence. Man and his experience of universe is simply a mirage created out of   the consciousness, Consciousness is the real Self, the real Atman, is the reality.

That is why in Mundaka Upanishad indicates:- The rituals and the sacrifices described in the Vedas deal with lower knowledge. The sages ignored these rituals and went in search of higher knowledge. ... Such rituals are unsafe rafts for crossing The sea of samsara, of birth and death. Doomed to shipwreck are those who try to cross The sea of samsara on these poor rafts. Ignorant of their own ignorance, yet wise In their own esteem, these deluded men Proud of their vain learning go round and round Like the blind led by the blind.


Sri, Ramana Maharishi said: scriptural knowledge is conceptual divisions invented by teachers of philosophy by their excessive analysis. Where do all these concepts end? Why should confusion created and then explained away? Fortunate is the man who does not lose himself in the labyrinths of philosophy, but goes straight to the source from which they all arise.

Ramana Maharishi indicated the direct path to the truth, is the source from which the false arises. Thus the source is the soul/ Atman, which is the true self. Atman itself is Brahman.  Thus it is necessary to view the worldview on the base of the source, which the true self, and formless substance and witness of the experience of diversity. Thus deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the true base, one can acquire the self –knowledge in lesser time and effort.  The unity in diversity is possible only through self-knowledge not by mastering the scriptural knowledge.

One has to bifurcate the traditional Advaita (orthodoxy)   which is meant for the mass mind set, who are incapable inquire to verifying their inherited beliefs.  But for the seekers truth, to get the pure essence of non-duality which is based on the formless soul. The path of inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the true base, leads one towards the non-dual destination.  Therefore, there is need to rectify the seeking base from ego base to soul base to understand, assimilate and realize the non-dual truth. 

Even Ramana Maharishi also says: this self –inquiry is not the critical study of the scriptures. When the source is reached the ego gets merged into it. The result of self-inquiry is the cure for all the sorrows. It is the highest of all the results. There is nothing greater then it.  It only indicates there is no necessity to study the scriptures to acquire self-knowledge. [Page-66-practicle guide to know yourself c/e by A.R.N].

Ramana Maharishi  says:
Q by D:- Is not necessary to study the Vedas or at least the Prasthanatraya [the Bhagavad Gita,Dasopanishad and Brahma Sutras, all with commentaries]to ensure firm realization?

Ramana Maharishi:-No. Do you need all that to see yourself? All that is intellectual wealth, useful in explain doubts and difficulties if others rise them or if you yourself encounter them in the course of thinking. But to attain realization, all that is not necessary. You want fresh water to drink, but you do not require all the water of the river Ganges to quench your thirst. [Page 111/112 of Practical guide to know yourself c/e by A.R.N].

This surely indicates Sri, Ramana Maharishi’s path is independent path nothing to with the religion and scriptures. 

Even Upanishad say:
  This Ataman cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Ataman reveals Its own form. [Katha Upanishad Ch-II -23-P-20]

Mundaka Upanishad  :-
 
This Ataman cannot be attained through study of the Vedas, nor through intelligence, nor through much learning. He who chooses Ataman—by him alone is Ataman attained. It is Ataman that reveals to the seeker Its true nature.  [3 –page-70 Mundaka Upanishad  Upanishads by Nikilanada]

The scriptures indicate that Ataman is Brahman, and Brahman is ultimate truth. Therefore the soul, which is in the form of consciousness, is ultimate truth.  Thus to realize the ultimate truth is the prime goal.   A well-directed inquiry, analysis and reasoning will lead one to his non-dual destination. 
Self-Realization is direct realization of the ultimate truth or real god, in contrast with traditional paths, which are indirect. And the other paths cannot lead to the ultimate destination because they are based on the false self, which they hold as real self and false experience as reality. 
Until and unless one overcomes physical shackle it is impossible to understand and assimilate the nondual truth, which is beyond the physical existence or the universe.  Consciousness itself is lord of itself though not of the universe. And having nothing it has all.

Gaudapada quotes from the Upanishads: "There's no plurality here"; "The Lord [Atman] through his powers appears to be many"; "those who are attached to creation or production or origination go to utter darkness"; "the unborn is never reborn, for who can produce him [Atman]?”

It is only who base on ‘I’ or ‘I AM’ as self, argue and quarrel amongst themselves. The people who are fully aware of the fact that, the form, time and space are mere mirage created out of consciousness have no reason to quarrel, because for them everything is consciousness and no second thing exist other than consciousness.
Posted by sunthosh2009@hotmail.com at 6:22 AM
Labels:

Adyatmic Discussion -23

Santthosh Kumaar

The universe and all it contents along with the people and their individual experiences of birth,life and death are reality within the waking experience. But waking experience is mere illusion from ultimate standpoint. People are deluded by illusion, because they have immersed in the illusion experiencing it as reality. They are ig...See More

July 8 at 8:42am · · ·


  • David Alan Harber likes this.

    • Onno Veerman Too much advaita can cause word diarrhea
      Monday at 2:23am · · 1 person

    • Shantinath Neuen Advaita? ... where?...
      Monday at 2:28am ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Neither Advaita nor Buddhism is necessary to know and realize the ultimate truth. There is no one and nothing exists as real, when the self , which is not the form but formless consciousness, is in awareness of its own formless non dual true nature. Anyone one who has intense urge, receptiveness and humility can reach it, if he does his homework without teacher or any teaching and by using his own reason and reach the ultimate end of his true existence.

      Monday at 6:47am · · 1 person

    • Shantinath Neuen hahahahahaha.... thank yu Kumaar for the belly laugh...
      Monday at 8:47pm ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar Now I know the person who does not know to laugh at himself laughs hahaaaahaha.... has only belly no other parts and organs.
      Monday at 9:08pm ·

    • Shantinath Neuen Sorry Kumaar... i was rude...
      Monday at 9:24pm · · 1 person
Posted by sunthosh2009@hotmail.com at 5:38 AM
Labels:

Adyatmic discussion -22

Santthosh Kumaar

In the universe we find sun, moon, planets, sky, ocean, Stars, Mountains and all
living creatures and people. None of these can exist independently. They co-exist. They appear together and
disappear together. Because everyone has
the firm conviction that he is an individual separate from the world and world
existed prior to him and he is...See More
July 8 at 11:08am · · ·


  • Rose Bud and Michael Reed like this.

    • Pavlos Dolatzoglou hello Santthosh, i feel a little bit ambivalent with your postings. On the one site, good pointers which protect from a kind of soft-advaita ;o) on the other side, i miss a kind of abillity or flexibility to use or compare it with other sayings.
      July 9 at 4:44pm ·

    • Pavlos Dolatzoglou for example. What Jean Klein ment with the body experience was not a body-based teaching. But in this kind of unflexibility you create this interpretation i think. That , for me is a danger. A danger that even the truth, formalized and used as a kind of mind-system,can become a kind of indistructable image, which is like blinders.
      July 9 at 4:48pm ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Dear Pavlos, I respect your views . There is no need to accept what I say without verifying. The pursuit of truth is pursuit of verification , noting has to be accepted without verification. One should not make teaching or any teacher as yardstick .The teachings are useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known. I am neither a teacher nor I am teaching. I am just sharing my views derived from deeper self -search. Teacher and teaching is not required in pursuit of truth because the truth has to be ascertained by seeker himself. This subject is vast and it has to be grasped only through deeper self-search.
      Upanishad say:
      This Ataman cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Ataman reveals Its own form. [Katha Upanishad Ch-II -23-P-20]
      Mundaka Upanishad :-
      This Ataman cannot be attained through study of the Vedas, nor through intelligence, nor through much learning. He who chooses Ataman—by him alone is Ataman attained. It is Ataman that reveals to the seeker Its true nature. [ 3 –page-70 Mundaka Upanishad Upanishads by Nikilanada]

      When the Upanishads say:-

      It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Atman reveals its own form. Then what is the use of indulging through our intelligence or our accumulated knowledge, when one is not chosen by the self, which is the soul, which is in the form of consciousness.

      There is no need for any philosophy in pursuit of truth because they take the seeker nearer to truth but they create more doubts and confusions.

      The scriptures and theories and teaching based on the ego are not the yardstick. Using them as yardstick to understand and assimilate the truth will lead one towards pursuit of arguments. Seeker of truth has to discover on his own, the truth of his true existence by inquiring “what is mind?” and “what is substance of the mind?” and move forward.

      Dear Pavols , move ahead in your chosen path sincerely and seriously. The inner direction comes on its own and leads you to the destination you are seeking for. I wish you all the success in your chosen path. have a blisssful time in this illusory experience of duality.

      July 9 at 5:45pm ·

    • Shantinath Neuen this is so... the finger pointing to the moon is so thick... the moon disapears...
      July 9 at 5:47pm ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      There is neither the finger nor the moon because the finger and the moon are also consciousness. Thus consciousness alone is all the forms and names are mere illusion created out of consciousness. Why go round and round, by various tortuous paths
      When the Vedas and Upanishad declare that Consciousness or Atman is actually nothing but Brahman, then why go round and round, by various tortuous paths, like the blind led by the blind. One has to realize the fact that, the mind is in form of universe. Trace the source of mind and realize that source is consciousness. The mind rises from consciousness as waking or dream and subsides as deep sleep.
      In Mandukya Upanishad Brahman and Atman are defined as same:
      सर्वं ह्येतद् ब्रह्मायमात्मा ब्रह्म सोयमात्मा चतुष्पात् / sarvam hyetad brahmaayamaatmaa brahm soyamaatmaa chatushpaat –
      Mandukya Upanishad, verse-2
      Translation:
      sarvam(सर्वम्)- Whole/All/Everything; hi(हि)- Really/Just/Surely/Indeed;​ etad(एतद्)- This here/This; brahm(ब्रह्म)- Brahm/Brahman; ayam(अयम्)- This/Here; aatmaa(आत्मा)- Atma/Atman; sah(सः)- He; ayam(अयम्)- This/Here; chatus(चतुस्)- Four/Quadruple; paat(पात्)- Step/Foot/Quarter
      Fragmented Verse:
      सर्वम् हि एतद् ब्रह्म अयम् आत्मा ब्रह्म सः अयम् आत्मा चतुस पात् / sarvam hi etad brahm ayama aatmaa brahm sah ayam aatmaa chatus paat
      Simple Meaning:-
      All indeed is this Brahman; This Atman is Brahman; He, this Atman has four steps/quarters.
      While Brahman lies behind the sum total of the objective universe, some human minds boggle at any attempt to explain it with only the tools provided by reason. Brahman is beyond the senses, beyond the mind, beyond intelligence, beyond imagination. Indeed, the highest idea is that Brahman is beyond both existence and non-existence, transcending and including time, causation and space, and thus can never be known in the same material sense as one traditionally 'understands' a given concept or object.
      Imagine a person who is blind from birth and has not seen anything. Is it possible for us to explain to him the meaning of the colour red. Is any amount of thinking or reasoning on his part ever going to make him understand the sensation of the colour red? In a similar fashion the idea of Brahman cannot be explained or understood through material reasoning or any form of human communication. Brahman is like the colour red; those who can sense it cannot explain or argue with those who have never sensed it.
      Brahman is considered the all-pervading consciousness which is the basis of all the animate and inanimate entities and material. (brahmano hi pratisthaham, Bhagavad Gita 14.27)

      July 9 at 6:27pm ·

    • Shantinath Neuen Kumaar... what you are saying doesn`t make sense...
      July 9 at 6:56pm ·

    • Iamyou Uarei Mr. KUMAAR: Thank you: All the appearances that you elaborated on, appear in Consciousness, witnessed by Consciousness, IT IS CONSCIOUSNESS. The individual entity is an appearance in the totality of this appearance, Therefore an image. UNDESTANDING OF THIS IS FREEDOM
      Freedom! for whom?
      NOT for the conceptual Individual, for sure, because there is no such an animal.
      July 9 at 8:44pm · · 1 person

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Dear Shantinath Neuen, I respect your views. You are right from your own stand point . Whatever makes sense is based on the ego and it only satisfies the ego.The ego is not the self because the ego is false self within the false experience. Thus judging and concluding the truth on the false self is bound to be falsehood. When the self is formless the judgment has to be based on the formless not on the form[ego], than only one will be able to understand and assimilate and realize the non-dual truth. 'I' or 'I AM is inborn samskara or conditioning. It is very difficult to overcome this samskara or conditioning without realizing the 'I' or 'I AM is not the self but the formless knower[consciousness] of the 'I' or 'I AM' is the true self.

      July 9 at 10:34pm ·

    • Pavlos Dolatzoglou
      oh hello Santthosh, for me it is not so relevant if You are telling us the truth or not, it is relevant what effect has this telling. For example, many people say even "formless" is a form and even that ist not the true self. I like the saying of Bentinho as he explained that "even the formless" is a state and that "awareness" has no form of it`s own, so it can`t even be "formless" ;o) you understand? the whole point is, that you have the feeling or it feels like that, that you are gone deep and others not. ;o) that means not that what you say is not usefull. I like it (if it would not be so long:)

      July 9 at 10:41pm · · 1 person

    • Pavlos Dolatzoglou or better... you seem to have a teacher-gene and see the others as disciples (of you ;o)) Iam sure your family takes it with humor ;o))
      July 9 at 10:42pm · · 1 person

    • Iamyou Uarei Some of these folks who are allegedly knowledgeable in philosophy of ONENESS, UNICITY and are sharing in this Face Book are NOT NICE. Maybe this is the way the SHOW is supposed to unfold. Correct? But again, this is the UNICITY expressing itself in different ROLES. And watching itself.
      July 9 at 10:47pm ·

    • Iamyou Uarei The show must go on there is no change of role in the middle of the show.
      July 9 at 10:51pm ·

    • Pavlos Dolatzoglou no it is more like a test... if we have really eliminated all factors or not ;o)
      July 9 at 11:26pm ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Dear Pavlos, I respect your views. I am not teacher nor I am looking for any disciples . I just sharing my views . the teacher disciple theory is an obstacle in pursuit of truth. there is no need to accept what I say . I am not imposing my ideas on others but sharing my views with like minded fellow seekers. Form is formless because form is created out of formless material. the whole universe is a form but it is created out of formless stuff ,which is consciousness. Scientific inventions say:

      Why You Are Not Your Brain, and Other Lessons from the Biology of Consciousness
      by :AlvaNoë. Hill and Wang, 2009

      Alva No, a University of California, Berkeley, philosopher and cognitive scientist, argues that after decades of concerted effort on the part of neuroscientists, psychologists and philosophers "only one proposition about how the brain makes us conscious ... has emerged unchallenged: we don't have a clue." The reason we have been unable to explain the neural basis of consciousness, he says, is that it does not take place in the brain. Consciousness is not something that happens inside us but something we achieve it is more like dancing than it is like the digestive process. To understand consciousness the fact that we think and feel and that a world shows up for us we need to look at a larger system of which the brain is only one element. Consciousness requires the joint operation of brain, body and world. "You are not your brain. The brain, rather, is part of what you are."

      If the brain [body] is not the self then what is self? Therefore, there is a need to understand and assimilate the knowledgeof the self through deeper self-search in order to unfold the mystery of the ‘I’. this is possible when one becomes aware of the fact that the mind is not within the body but body including the universe are within the mind. until one thinks the mind within the the body it is mere intellectuality not realization of truth. The unity in diversity arise only when one becomes aware of the fact that, his body,ego and his experience of the world are mere mirage created out of consciousness. The physical existence is reality on the base of physical self. Whatever one feels as a person is reality within the physical existence. If physical existence is taken as reality then there is no meaning in seeking truth because he has accepted the physical existence as truth. Once physical existence is accepted as reality then the experiences within the physical existence prevail as reality.

      My point is we have to view our life from ultimate point of view, then only we become aware its illusory nature.

      The nature of things necessarily unpreventable and uncontrollable when one regards world as world of diversity. Only when one is able to base his-self from ultimate standpoint and views the experience of diversity [mind] as consciousness only, then he becomes aware of their unreal nature of the physical existence or mind.

      One, who has realized that existence and non-existence and change are in the nature of things, easily finds repose, being unperturbed and free from ignorance. The pain and pleasure exist as reality because of having the idea of two [duality]. To get rid of the reality of the pain and pleasure one has to find the formless substance of the duality [mind] to realize the whole diversity is created out of single substance, which is consciousness. Realizing the consciousness as ultimate truth, one becomes aware of the unreal nature of the mind, which appears as waking or dream [duality] and disappears as deep sleep [non-duality] .

      Serious Seekers who desirous to know the truth, for them nothing bring contentment other then acquiring the self-knowledge. For one who becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but consciousness becomes aware of the fact that, the physical existence [illusion] has no base, and its reality is in illusory in its nature.

      Our individual life is nothing to do with ultimate truth. The individual life is reality within the waking or dream. The three states are mere illusion on the ultimate standpoint. The ultimate truth, which is consciousness, is the substance and witness of the illusion and it is within the illusion and it is always apart and eternal.

      As person perceiving the world one thinks he is born in this world and world existed prior to him, this conviction makes him physical oriented, thus he views and judges the world-view on the physical base therefore his understanding is limited to the physicality.

      Deeper inquiry reveals the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless [consciousness]. On the base of formless [consciousness] as self, one becomes unreal nature of the mind, which appears as waking or dream. Thus, the waking is as unreal as dream.

      When man his world are within the illusion and all his experiences are happenings within the illusion. Until one thinks the physical self as real self, he is bound to be in the realm of duality. The one which knows itself as body with the name is not the body but it is consciousness. When the consciousness withdraws itself then there is neither body, nor the name, nor the world exists. And consciousness alone prevails as non-dual existence.

      Where is the body, where is mind, where is the world; the void; or despair in the true self, which the taintless soul or consciousness. They are or have becomes consciousness.

      One thinks there is mind when he has thoughts, but when thoughts are not considered different from the consciousness, which is the true self, then where is the division into, waking, dream and deep sleep etc.

      Void implies to duality: the universe may not exist but the thought of the second is there. If one knows there is Void [emptiness/nothingness], then there is something there to be known and know. They are or have become consciousness.

      What are scriptures, what is self-knowledge, what is mind without the objects, what is contentment, and where is desirelessness for the formless soul/true self, which is ever devoid of sense of duality.

      What is knowledge? What is ignorance? What is the ego? What is duality? What is mind? What is bondage? What is liberation? What is definableness to the formless self/soul, which is in the form of consciousness?

      All these appearances are mere mirage, which come and go; hence meaningless to the formless soul/true self.

      The ego based knowledge is not ultimate knowledge because ego based knowledge is dualistic knowledge based on the object [body] as subject. But in non-dualistic Knowledge whatever seems to exist also is consciousness; therefore there is no scope for the existence of the second thing.

      What is past karmas? What is liberation –in this life? and what is that liberation at death? for the birth- less soul, which is ever formless.

      Nearest state to understand the soul by itself is to eliminate mentally waking and dream as in deep sleep. Once this is grasped one has to understand everything is consciousness, which is the true self.

      What is the doer or the enjoyer? What is cessation of thoughts or rising of thoughts? What is immediate perception and its result to, the formless soul, which is ever impersonal. A Gnani is the one who is never afraid of thinking and knowing all his individual experience and the world to be consciousness.

      What is the world and what is meant by the aspirant for liberation; what is contemplative and what is man of knowledge; what the self is and what liberated self to the formless soul, which is the non-dual essence.

      When we analyze the dream experience we find the dream entity, dream world with all people in it appeared as a whole, and the dream reality lasted until waking experience appeared. When one tries to know the truth of his true existence in waking through inquiry, analysis and reasoning, one becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless soul, which is in the form of consciousness which is the essence of the three states from which the three states are made. Thus the illusions of the three states are made of one single substance, which is consciousness. By realizing the formless substance, which is consciousness as self, the ignorance vanishes and one become aware of the fact that the three states are mere illusion on the standpoint of the formless substance ,which is also the witness of the three states.

      When knows the soul as the true self:-

      What are projection and retraction, what are end and means; what are failure and success to the formless soul, which is formless and non-dual in its nature. The mirage appears and merges back into its essence is not an appearance at all.

      What is the knower, the means of knowledge, the object of knowledge; what is anything or nothing to the soul which is ever formless. Knower, knowledge, object, thing, nothing or any word one may utter is after all they are the words and words have meaning only within the mirage. The consciousness is ever present in all the three states but as a person, one is unconscious of the consciousness because he thinks the body as his self.

      When all knowing, known and knower are simultaneously mental as in dream what else is there to trouble about understanding them. Because of considering the waking experience as reality one is incapable of understanding and assimilating the non-dual truth.

      What is the distraction?What is the concentration, dullness ad delusion, happiness and sorrow to the formless soul, which is ever actionless.

      As a person one may be drawn to observe his body and the world, but the Gnani is not disturbed by because they all are consciousness to him.

      The physical attributes are nothing to do with the soul/self wrongly; all the attributes belong to the ego not the soul. Identifying the physical attribute to the soul is the cause of the ignorance.
      What is relative? What is absolute happiness and misery to the formless soul, which is ever devoid of thought and activity?

      If anything has a meaning it is only in duality. Happiness and sorrow are the nature of duality, which is mind, there differences therefore illusory on the standpoint of the formless soul, which is ultimate reality.

      What is illusion? What is ignorance? What are birth, life and death? What is world? What is attachment and what is detachment to the soul/self, which is ever formless.

      The mind and soul are one in essence ultimately. All argument about consciousness never touches it. The soul is not the ego in this particular body but principle which holds the whole physical existence [universe], which contains everyone and everything known and unknown. All words have no place and thoughts cannot reach. Even the thought of the soul or consciousness is just illusory and contradictory, because the thought and words belong to the world of duality.

      What is activity or inactivity, liberation and bondage to the formless soul/self, which is ever immutable and indivisible. There is no division into nations, races and colours of kinds of men in wisdom. It is not enough to but one must always see the formless soul [consciousness] as self and the witness the witness of all the three states and always realize and practice it. Some people get glimpses of truth and lose it; so it must be established. Such fixidity is the goal.

      What is instruction and scriptural injunction? What is disciple and guru? What indeed is object of life for the formless soul, which is absolute and free from limitation?

      Life is with world. World is within the waking or dream, the illusory limitation. When there is no second other than consciousness, then what is there for the soul /self to attain? But when one thinks the self is physical, then there is various things he will want to get and so be trouble by their lack. Hence don’t wrongly imagine the self to be the body.

      What is existence, nonexistence, unity or duality? What need us there to say more? Noting from the soul because whatever seems to emanate from it, is non-different from itself. There is no second thing other than the soul, which is in the form of consciousness. One should not mistake self [soul] for the ego.

      Those who assert world is reality, are still in elementary stages of preliminary analysis. The world is reality within the waking experience but the waking experience is mere illusion. The same way the dream world was reality within the dream experience. The dream became unreal when waking took place same way waking becomes unreal when non-dual wisdom dawns. thus intelctual understanding is not wisdom.

      July 10 at 12:54am ·

    • Shantinath Neuen Kumaar... you are:"...sharing my views with like minded fellow seekers"
      July 10 at 1:05am ·

    • Shantinath Neuen which seekers?... which mind is alike?...
      July 10 at 1:06am ·

    • Shantinath Neuen Kumaar... you will make me happy leaving the pundit cloth behind and follow the sun and the moon and all that is pure wonders... the truth is... and it needs not to be explained, declared, praised... but it is to be shared, loved and expressed... which self you can remember when it is not yours, not was, not will be...
      July 10 at 3:34am ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Thank you for your wisdom. it is very kind of you to use the pearls of words. Pursuit of truth is not punditry. Within the duality there is I AM and the universe. When the true self awakens itself from its ignorance it sees itself without the 'I AM' ,without its ego,without its body and without its experience of the world . I will not be there to feel happy as person :- When YOUR SELF becomes naked without the 'YOU ARE',WITHOUT YOUR BODY, WITHOUT YOUR UNIVERSE, WITHOUT YOUR INTELLECTUALISM , WITHOUT SUN AND MOON AND REAL WONDERS, IN THE MIDST OF DUALITY THAN THERE IS UNITY IN DIVERSITY, where THE SELF IS WITHOUT THE 'I AM AND THE UNIVERSE.

      July 10 at 7:55am ·

    • Iamyou Uarei Being, Expressing; Being To Being.
      A "personal" message MUST fail because it addresses a nonexistent entity.
      The personal message is based on the belief that there is something called a separate seeker that can attain something else called enlightenment.
      WHAT DO YOU THINK? PLEASE COMMENT ON THIS.
      Monday at 12:46am ·

    • Shantinath Neuen ONLY personal messages really matter... :-)
      Monday at 2:02am ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Dear Iamyou, When the soul ,which is the true self wakes up in its own formless non-dual nature in the midst of duality[waking and realizes all the form and name are mere mirage it is self -realization.Self-realizat​ion does not arise arguing on the base of physical self or ego because the self is not form but formless consciousness. Soul is the ultimate truth. The soul is in the form of consciousness. The Soul is self-evident. It is not established by extraneous proofs. It is not possible to deny the soul, because It is the very essence of the one who denies It. The soul is the basis of all kinds of knowledge, presuppositions and proofs. Soul is the true self. Self is within, Self is without; Self is before, Self is behind; Self is on the right, Self is on the left; Self is above and Self is below.

      Soul/Self is not an object, as it is invisible, beyond the reach of the eyes. Soul/self is whole, infinite, changeless, self-existent, self-delight, self-knowledge. It is, essence. It is the essence of the knower of the physical existence. It is the formless witness of the three states.

      Soul/Self is supreme and it is impersonal, without attributes, formless, , immutable, eternal and. It is above all needs and desires. It is always the Witnessing Subject. It can never become an object as It is beyond the reach of the physicality because it is prior to physicality. Soul/Self is non-dual, one without a second. It has no other beside It. It is destitute of difference, either external or internal. Soul/Self cannot be described, because description implies distinction. Soul/Self cannot be distinguished from any other than itself.

      The belief system is based on physicality. One has to dismantle physical structure mentally by realizing the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless spirit, to overcome all conflicts and move towards the universal truth. Until one thinks body is one thing and world is another he will remain in ignorance. Only when he becomes aware of the fact that, the body and the world both are created out of single stuff, then there is unity in diversity in his understanding.

      Tuesday at 8:14am ·

    • Iamyou Uarei Mr. Kummar: Slow down a little, smell the roses, this is not a show is scholarly. Allow all of this knowledge get you out of yourself, and when you give it away, give it slowly.
      LOVE YOU for I am YOU.
      Tuesday at 7:21pm ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      When the roses, smell and smeller ,love, I and YOU are one in essence than where is duality, how can one get knowledge out of himself when man is not self. How can one get personal experience when the self is not an individual. Who or what has to allow to give up all his knowledge when man is not self. When man and his experience of the world are mere mirage created out of consciousness from the ultimate stand point than what value is there for the form,name and experience. Thus one has to first realize self is not the form but self is formless consciousness. than judge and reason on the formless self. Basing the judgment on the form and passing opinion on the form base is intellectuality. Realizing the self is formless getting firm conviction leads to Non-dual Self -Awareness in the midst of duality. Thus both experience and experiencer are part of the duality. There is no scope for duality in non-dual reality.

      Yesterday at 9:40am ·

    • Iamyou Uarei YOU ARE REALY STICKING TO YOUR GUN, AREN'T YOU?.
      I AM STILL YOU.
      10 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar When I am is not 'I AM', 'YOU ARE' is not YOU ARE ,the gun is not the gun but everything is that single stuff the formless consciousness- , the self is that. Self is many in duality or illusion but it is one in reality. So SELF IS THAT. --formless consciousness is your eternal identity,without name ,form, time and space.
      9 hours ago ·
Posted by sunthosh2009@hotmail.com at 5:34 AM
Labels:
Subscribe to: Posts (Atom)