Adyathmic Discussion -382

Trev Light Bown:- The great problem with mind is that it makes an assumption before it is looks at what is.

You start every one of your posts with an assumption.

 
This is clear working of mind. Memory of a past blog to fit in with a your stone set belief. Post and paste mentality is never new an pure or open for insight.

The mind "I" is a person of past or future. Never has anything to say as true formless self. But an automation as a human robotized copier of text.

No Buddha ever post and paste old boy.

SK: - 

 Dearest Trev, 

It is not the problem with the mind but one  does not know what mind actually is. The ego, body and the world together is mind.  Till one thinks the mind is within the body he will remain in ignorance and he will experiences the duality as reality. Thus perfect understanding of ‘what is what’ necessary to understand what is mind and its nature.  Until one is egocentric everything as an assumption and imagination  but when one is soul-centric there is no scope for assumption and imagination. Thus it is necessary for the seeker of truth to realize the self is not the ego but the self is formless soul. If the self is soul then one has to be soul-centric to understand, assimilate and realize the Non-dualistic truth. The egocentricity is useful in practical life within the practical world. It takes a long time to learn to become soul-centric to understand assimilate ‘what is truth’ and what is untruth to mentally discard the untruth.      

  

Suppose whatever you are saying now if you had said in the dream, the dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. The dream entity and dream world, dream memory was reality within the dream. The waking becomes unreal when the wisdom dawns. The one who has the urge to acquire wisdom must investigate with all the humility to unfold the mystery of the ‘I’.  The one who judges on his own standpoint will never be able to go to the depth of the subject. Without perfect understanding of what is what it is very difficult to understand assimilate self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana.   

First investigate what is this ‘I’, which appears and disappears. When it appears it appears with you along with the world.  And when it disappears it disappears with you along with the world. You and the world are reality within your waking experience. The one which is witnesses the coming and going of the three states is not you (waking entity or ego) but the soul, the innermost self.     

   

When the self is not you (ego or waking entity or physical mind) then why you judge the worldview on your standpoint?  You have to drop judging the worldview (three states) to discover the truth. As one goes deeper and deeper than he will start understanding assimilating what I say otherwise he will always in the mode of misunderstanding. Self-knowledge or brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana cannot be imposed on others. 

Buddha had all the love and humility. Buddha never indulged in personal attacks he had all the patience to teach and wherever it was necessary he was in silent mode.    Buddha would have used post and paste if the facility was available in his time and also he did not use internet. There is no harm if any one pastes and post info taken  from his own blogs and his own  notes he is only sharing info with the fellow seekers. 

Sharing is giving info for the sake of goodness. As with all things, achieving a balance of peaceful communications is established with respect, humility, understanding and patience.

The misinterpretation is because of Buddha himself. Most of the questions were answered only by silence leaving many to interpret as per their understanding. The enlightenment of Buddha and which again was indirectly accepted by Sage Sri,  Gaudapada.

If one sticks himself as individual separate from the world and he born in this world and world existed prior to him and he is born afterwards until this conviction is there it is impossible to assimilate self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana because self-knowledge is not the knowledge of birth entity (you) but   it is the knowledge of birthless self.  The birthless self is the formless soul. The soul is without you, your memory and   your world. 

The past, present and future are part of the duality. The duality is present only when the I is present.  The ‘I’ is present only when the mind is present. The mind is present only when the universe is present. The universe is present only when the waking is present.  The ‘I’, the duality, the mind, the universe, the waking are one and the same. If the ‘I’ is absent   then the duality, the mind, the universe, the waking are absent.  

The memory belongs to the false self.  The memory belongs to individual whereas the self is not an individual. When the seeker investigates and able to realize the fact that, whatever is born, lives and dies is not the self but the self is that witnesses, the experience of birth, life, death and the world (witnessed) to gather,   thus it is necessary for the seeker to investigate and make sure that mind is not within the body but the body and the world are within the mind. And the body and the world together is mind. The body and the world are mere illusion created out of consciousness. The body and the world are one in essence. That essence is consciousness. Till this truth is not understood it is impossible to understand, assimilate and realize the Advaitic truth. 

The earliest ancient sages used the word ‘I’ to the witness of the three states not to the ego as moderns use it and think the ‘I’ without the body is self. The seeker has to understand the fact that the fact that ‘i’ is not the self but the witness of the ‘I’ is the true self, which is eternal. 

People think that the ‘soul’ or ‘spirit’ is something different from the mind. They believe that the mind is really two. This is the confusion among religionists and intellectuals. If ‘Soul’ has any meaning, if ‘spirit’ has any meaning, so long as one thinks of them, they are merely ideas. No-Mind is the highest: it is consciousness, non-dual wisdom.

The individual is a bundle of memories, desires within the waking or dream. The memories and desires are part of the duality. Therefore the individual self is entirely part and parcel of the mirage. Peoples ideas of that they will go to some world after death, some astral plane or religious heavens will disappear as nonsense with the disappearance of belief in the reality of the ‘I’.   

People think there is mind when he has thoughts, but when thoughts are not considered different from the soul which is present in the form of consciousness, then where is the division into, waking, dream and deep sleep etc.

People think that, more they think, the more they will get; but it is really an error. It remains only a thought and gives them back only thoughts.  Anything seen, observed, cannot be the Self or the Witness. 

Consciousness (soul) is the substance and the witness of the duality.  The duality is present in the form of mind. The Mind is present in the form of the universe. The universe appears as waking or dream and diapers as deep sleep. The one which is aware of the coming and going of the three states is neither the waking entity nor the dream entity but the formless soul, which is present in the form of consciousness.  When the soul becomes aware of its formless non-dual true nature in the midst of duality it is called self –awareness. It is foolish to limit the consciousness only to duality because the consciousness pervades all the three states 

Consciousness is the shoreless Non-dual Ocean. Consciousness is beyond form, time and space. Consciousness is beyond instinct, intellect, imagination and inspiration. It is unconscious of its true nature when it is in illusion. Only beyond illusion it is in its true nature. 

As per the scriptures the three "Ashrams" or stages in life were originally intended for three grades of intelligence thus:

v             Religion: low intellects had to do 'karmas' works, ritual actions, chanting of mantras and indulging in bajans and prayers etc.

v             Middle intellects:  Yoga: taking yellow robes, going to caves, ashrams etc.

v             High intellects: wisdom who wanted truth is concerned with no external rites or sanyasa but depend solely on soul-centric reasoning for their path.

Thus the seeker has to choose his path according to his choice.  Without intense urge to know the truth and sharpness to grasp the truth it is difficult to tread the path of wisdom or reason. Never mix different path with each other and make cocktail because it leads to all sorts of  doubts and confusion.  

The seeker should be beware of everything that is untrue: stick to truth and he shall succeed, may be slowly, but surely.

Adyathmic Discussion--381 (reincarnation)

Trev Light Bown:-  I was reading your latest post, when the subject of reincarnation arose in my mind. The evidence of near death experience and afterlife testimony is to vast a subject to just right off as illusion even though it is just that. But if it is then what if anything actually reincarnates. Then I saw this on Ramana Maharishi Site.

"Bhagavan on Reincarnation (Surpassing Love And Grace)

The real Self is continuous and unaffected. The reincarnating ego belongs to a lower plane, that of thought. It is transcended by Self-realization. Reincarnations are due to a spurious offshoot of Being and are therefore denied by the Buddhists. The human state is due to the mingling of the sentient with the insentient. Read the article ».

So there you have it. Just as I had figured out myself I see the confirmation.
The spirit that passes over and experiences an afterlife then reincarnates is none other than "I" false sense ego.

So the belief they hold will shape their after life experience and the hidden dark recesses of mind will manifest in life revision. Yet as Jesus says "My Fathers house has many mansions", these are levels of consciousness by lighter or more dense vibration as spiritualists have always stated.

So the mind/ego as spirit is what leaves the body at death, non the wiser than he was in the midst of life. At this point there may be void and peace beyond understanding as an uninterested observing witness. But most near death testimony then branches out with myriad belief systems that will end in the light at the end of the tunnel.

At this point is the true test of a Gnani.

SK: - The self is birthless therefore it is deathless. The one which is born lives and dies within the world (waking) is not the self.  The idea of reincarnation is based on the birth entity (waking entity or ego) which lives and dies within the illusory world (waking).   The self is the one which witnesses the coming and going of the dual (waking or dream) non-dual (deep sleep) experiences. When the experience of the birth, life and death takes place in the illusion then recantation also is part of the same illusion. 

The dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. Similarly the waking becomes unreal when wisdom dawns. Wisdom dawns when the soul, innermost self, consciously remains awake in its formless non-dual nature.  when the substance and witness of the three states are one in essence and that essence is consciousness. Then what value is there for the universe in, which the experience of birth, life death and reincarnation happens. Even you take reincarnation as reality but the reincarnation happen within the world, which is an illusion, on the standpoint of the formless soul, the innermost self.  On the standpoint of the innermost self. Without perfect understanding of what is what Self-knowledge is an impossibility. 'I based knowledge is false knowledge. trying to test  the truth on the base of false self and passing judgment is an err.   

 Dalai Lama said:-  Buddhism need not to be the best religion though it is most scientific and religion and inquisitive. But Buddhism has no answer to certain questions like existence of Atama [soul] and rebirth.   Dali lama said that as an individual he believes in rebirth as he had come across a few cases of rebirth.  Modern science, Dalai Lama hoped would unearth the mystery behind the rebirth. (In DH –dec-212009-Gulburga).

INNER PATH –BLOG--People who are caught up with idea of reincarnation and rebirth theories are not qualified for Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana because they accepted duality as reality

People who believes in reincarnation and rebirth theories are unaware of the fact that , their belief is based on   waking entity, which is the false self within the false experience. The waking entity itself is false self within the false experience, it means the present experience of birth, life, death and the world is falsehood.  Thus whatever is seen, known, believed and experienced as waking entity is bound to be falsehood because the soul or consciousness the innermost self is birthless because it is formless. Therefore the rebirth and reincarnation theory based on the false self is bound to be falsehood. 

Accepting in rebirth and reincarnation theory as reality is accepting false self(waking entity or ego)  as real self and false experience(waking) as reality. Self-realization is impossibility  if one accepts the present waking entity as real self because the self is neither the waking entity nor the self is dream entity but the self is formless soul ,which  witnesses  the coming and going  of the  three states without the physical apparatus

 The three states are impermanent but the soul or consciousness, which is the witness of the three states, is permanent and eternal.  in reality the three states are one in essence. and that essence is consciousness. Therefore there is no second thing exists other than consciousness.  Thus consciousness (Soul) is second to none.

Deeper self -search reveals the fact that, the waking experiences itself is illusion. It means the present experience of birth, life, death and the world are illusion. Thus the reincarnation theory based on the false self within the false experience is bound to be falsehood. When the waking entity is not the self than whatever theories is based on the waking entity imagined theory. 

 This imagined theory based on the waking entity or ego is for those lower minds set who are incapable of grasping the ultimate truth or Brahman.

People who are caught up with idea of reincarnation and rebirth theories are not qualified  for Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana because they accepted duality as reality . Birth implies duality and duality is falsehood from the ultimate standpoint.

--

From The Teachings of Sri Ramana Maharishi
Edited by David Godman:-

Question:- is reincarnation true?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: - Reincarnation exists only so long as there is ignorance. There is really no reincarnation at all, either now or before. Nor will there be any hereafter. This is the truth.

[Note: Comments by David Godman: Most religions have constructed elaborate theories which purport to explain what happens to the individual soul after the death of the body. Some claim that the soul goes to heaven or hell while others claim that it is reincarnated in a new body.

Sri Ramana Maharshi taught that all such theories are based on the false assumption that the individual self or soul is real; once this illusion is seen through, the whole superstructure of after-life theories collapses. From the standpoint of the Self, there is no birth or death, no heaven or hell, and no reincarnation.

As a concession to those who were unable to assimilate the implications of this truth, Sri Ramana would sometimes admit that reincarnation existed. In replying to such people he would say that if one imagined that the individual self was real, then that imaginary self would persist after death and that eventually it would identify with a new body and a new life. The whole process, he said, is sustained by the tendency of the mind to identify itself with a body. Once the limiting illusion of mind is transcended, identification with the body ceases, and all theories about death and reincarnation are found to be inapplicable.]