Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is necessary for getting rid of ignorance.

Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is necessary  for  getting rid of ignorance. ignorance is  cause of experiencing the illusion (mind or universe) as reality.  By realizing the formless soul or  consciousness as innermost self ,  the wisdom dawns.   Formless soul or consciousness   is cause of the illusion and it itself is uncaused. 

When the soul  innermost self  rests on its true nature, which is consciousness after having mentally detached from three states by continually observing their unreal nature, one enters into non-dual Self-Awareness. 

Acceptance by firm judgment and conviction the un-contradictable truth derived from the deeper self-search as truth, by means of which the Reality is perceived.

  Yearning for freedom from experiencing the illusion as reality by realizing the self is not the form but formless and self is not limited to the body but it pervades the whole universe as its formless substance and witness. Once one becomes aware of the unreal nature of mind, which is in the form of universe than he becomes aware of the fact that, the individual experience of the birth, life and death mere indulgence in discussion but the constant reflecting on the formless substance and witness of the three states and realizing the formless substance and witness are one in essence leads one to self-awareness. 

The three states are mere illusion created of consciousness. Thus one becomes free from experiencing the illusion as reality, which is the cause of burden and bondage.

Verifying through inquiry into the truth of one’s true existence is devotion. The seeker of truth through deeper self-search by realizing the fact that, the self is neither the waking entity nor the dream entity but the self is the formless substance and witness of the three states. The formless substance and witness is consciousness, which is the inner most self. Mentally rectifying the reasoning base from form to formless is necessary in order to drop physical based intellectuality.

Adyatmic Discussion -125

FORMLESS PATH: Adyatmic discussion-111

sunthosh-formlesspath.blogspot.com

· · · Share · 3 hours ago

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  Mohan Mishra likes this.
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder when self is connected to body, it takes the form of ego; but when environment is absent, there is no chance of conflict, so the ego seems to vanish. Still, the seeming invisibility does not mean the removal of ego as it resurfaces as soon as the conflict of environment reappears. Thus, it is impossible to liberate one's self from ego.
    

    3 hours ago · · 1
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder but when the self starts acting as a part of a greater Self, it continues to Become a part thereof; and its ego merges with the Superior Self, then only the ego diminishes.
    

    3 hours ago · · 1
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    Santthosh Kumaar The self is not limited to physical entity(waking entity or ego) with in the physical world(waking) because it pervades all the three states as their formless substance . Limiting the self(consciousness) to waking entity or ego is cause of the ignorance. It is impossible to get rid of the ego alone because, the ego, the body and the world appear together and they disappear together. Thus whatever appears and disappears is mere illusion. The one which witnesses the appearance of the three states is formless and apart. Therefore one has to mentally becomes aware of the existence of the formless witness ,which witnesses the coming and going of the three states. The formless witness is within the three states but its apart from the three states.It is within the three states as their formless substance and it is apart from the three states as their formless witness. It is apart because t is not an entity or identity or thing with waking or dream. Thus one has to realize the fact that the body ,ego,and the world are nothing to do with the formless soul or consciousness , the innermost self .
    

    3 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar Self is ‘I’- less. Self is bodiless. Whatever is connected to ‘I’ or ‘I AM’ is ignorance. When ignorance ends it is Gnana. When Gnana arise than the body, ego and the universe is mere mirage created out of consciousness. Until one gets the firm conviction that the self is not physical but self is formless consciousness and learns to view and judge and conclude on the base of formless self, Gnana will not arise. Gnana is the result of contemplation; it in annihilates ignorance. Ignorance is the cause of experiencing the illusion as reality.
    Ignorance is cause of the illusion. When the self becomes aware of it formless non-dual true nature then the ignorance vanishes and reality appears. When the reality appears than the universe is mere illusion created out of the consciousness, which is the inner most self.
    

    3 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar The individual experience within the dream is reality with in the dream. Therefore waking reality is also is reality within the waking. This waking is parallel dream and dream is parallel waking. Only when self-wakes up in waking the dream becomes unreal. When the self-consciously wakes up in its formless non-dual true nature in the midst of waking experience then all the three states are mere mirage created out of its formless non-dual true nature.
    The form time and space within the dream are falsehood when waking takes place. Similarly the form, time and space of the waking are also falsehood when wisdom dawns. The wisdom dawns only when one realize the self is neither the waking entity nor the dream entity. Thus it is erroneous to judge and reason and conclude the ultimate truth on the base of waking entity and waking world because waking experience itself is illusion.
    Suppose you were holding the same view in the dream, all your experiences and views are reality within the dream. The dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. Similarly the waking becomes unreal when you become aware the fact that, the self is not an individual. Thus whatever individual experiences experienced within the waking is as unreal as dream.
    Until one thinks body as body and world as world it is impossible to grasp non-dual truth, because his views and judgments are bases on physical self with the physical existence. The individuality is reality with the waking experience but the waking experience itself is false hood. Thus holding the view as an individual within the false experience is erroneous on the ultimate point of view because the self(soul or consciousness) is not an individual because it is ever formless, space -less and timeless.
    

    3 hours ago ·
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder dream is the subconscious interpretention of the conscious experiences; and so; can never be negated, as it is somehow related to the being's experiences.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder dream can be the virtual experience of the unachieved real.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder self cannot be without 'I', as even when the 'I' is merged with the Superior 'I', it still acts as a shadow of the Superior 'I'. When it starts radiating the energy received from the Superior 'I', then only it can be said to be in the proper track, and the journey of 'Oneness' only 'begins'.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar Dualist sages could not distinguish between ‘I’ and ‘formless witness.’ The 'I' was the witness. Their highest was the Jiva. One is so much attached to the 'I' that he do not want to think that 'I' does not exist. Again one is unable to detach the ‘I’ from the Real witness.
    Most of the modern Gurus are also stuck with ‘I’ awareness as self-awareness. The ‘I’ awareness is present only when the mind is present. Mind is present only when the universe is present. Universe is present only when the waking or dream is present. The ‘I’ awareness is absent when the mind is absent. Mind is absent than the universe or waking or dream is absent. Thus ‘I’ awareness is mere illusion. The self-awareness is ‘I- LESS AWARENESS.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar I respect your views and wisdom. deeper self-search revels the fact that 'I' itself is an illusion. there no big 'i' or small 'I''. The universe in which we exist is product of the inborn samskara or conditioning. The ignorance is cause of the inborn samskara or conditioning which present as ‘I’ or ‘I AM’. I or ‘I AM’ itself is cause of ignorance.
    Thus eradicating the ignorance completely is necessary. And this is possible only through Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. Thus, there is no other road to freedom other than Gnana. There is no other entrance other than except Gnana. The ignorance will vanish only when the non-dual wisdom dawns.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder the universe is not an illusion, instead it's a calculated, well-measured maniestation of the Supreme 'I'; so it's far from an illusion. It's a continuous journey of the Universal 'I' through multiplicity of the Self into minuscue 'self's.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder a bubble out of the ocean ultimately makes its way into the ocean, and merges into the ocean; still its atoms remain in the ocean and may reappear again elsewhere.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar On the physical point view there is bubble and the ocean. In reality consciousness alone. form,time and space are one in essence. Therefore no second thing exists other than consciousness. Thus there is no physical apparatus to imagine that the ocean and may reappear again elsewhere because everything is one. When wisdom dawns the body is not the body, the ego is not the ego and the experience of the world is not world they are mere mirage created out of consciousness. Thus consciousness alone is real and all else is mere mirage created out of consciousness.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar Chandogya Upanishads:-
    This universe comes forth from Brahman and will return to Brahman. Verily, all is Brahman. A person is what his deep desire is. It is our deepest desire in this life that shapes the life to come. So let us direct our deepest desires to realize the Self.
    If one is seeking truth then it is necessary to bifurcate and drop the traditional Advaitic path which is not the means to self-knowledge and move ahead without the traditional baggage to get direct realization on his own as suggest by the great sages.
    Thus seeker of truth has to know what this universe? What is this ultimate truth or Brahman? in order to realize the non-dualistic or Advaitic truth?
    No one can escape the waking experience which is the very basis of the physical existence. What was the waking experience before it appeared? Was their existence before the appearance of the waking experience? When the waking perishes, does the soul or consciousness survive alone? Is there a self or soul? The seeker has to find answers for all these doubts in order to realize ‘what is truth’ and ‘what is untruth’.
    As one goes deeper in self-search one becomes aware of the fact that, the self is neither the waking entity not self is the dream entity but the self is formless substance and witness of the three states. And the formless substance and witness of the three states are one in essence. And that essence is consciousness. If the formless substance and witness are one in essence, than there is second thing can exist, other than consciousness? Thus consciousness alone is real and all else is mere illusion created out of consciousness, which is the innermost self.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder yadidam-kim-ca-sarvam-prANa-ejati-nihsrtam
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar There is no body, no ego and no experience of the world in realm of truth because the body and the world are one in essence. That essence is consciousness.
    The one who has the firm conviction that, he is an individual separate from the world and world existed prior to him and he is born in it afterwards is egocentric. And he is unfit to grasp the ultimate truth or Brahman.
    Seeker has to trace the source of the mind or universe to realize the fact that, mind and its formless substance and the source are one in essence.
    The truth is hidden within the mind which is in the form of universe and it requires deeper self-search mental excavation, the removal of the ignorance, which is the cause of experiencing the illusion or duality as reality.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder existential urge of existence is truth; else, untruth. All are measured... no chance of escape.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder the self is no doubt a part [say, an atom] of the SELF; but it is realised when self experiences SELF from outside, and that cannot be achieved without material path.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder what we call MAYA is nothing but the material or measurable world, the Universe.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder and what is supposed to be formless is composed of subtle form, which is found in the microcosm.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar Yoga Vasishta, it says that the world is both real and unreal. It is real because it is a manifestation of consciousness, but is unreal, in the sense, that it is not absolute and eternal like consciousness itself.
    Peoples approach is more practical, and they stuck with the reality of the world, they take it as real. That is why all the confusion.
    That is why Sri, Sankara says in VivekaChudamani
    56. Neither by Yoga, nor by Sankhya, nor by work, nor by learning, but by the realisation of one's identity with Brahman is Liberation possible, and by no other means.
    58. Loud speech consisting of a shower of words, the skill in expounding the Scriptures, and likewise erudition - these merely bring on a little personal enjoyment to the scholar, but are no good for Liberation.
    59. The study of the Scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known.
    60. The Scriptures consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely causes the mind to ramble. Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of the Self.
    61. For one who has been bitten by the serpent of Ignorance, the only remedy is the knowledge of Brahman. Of what avail are the Vedas and (other) Scriptures, Mantras (sacred formulae) and medicines to such a one?
    62. A disease does not leave off if one simply utter the name of the medicine, without taking it; (similarly) without direct realisation one cannot be liberated by the mere utterance of the word Brahman.
    63. Without causing the objective universe to vanish and without knowing the truth of the Self, how is one to achieve Liberation by the mere utterance of the word Brahman ? — It would result merely in an effort of speech.
    64. Without killing one’s enemies, and possessing oneself of the splendour of the entire surrounding region, one cannot claim to be an emperor by merely saying, ‘I am an emperor’.
    65. As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a knower of Brahman, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted arguments.
    66. Therefore the wise should, as in the case of disease and the like, personally strive by all the means in their power to be free from the bondage of repeated births and deaths.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder BRAHMAN is the ever-expansive urge of the being; and it is forever expanding itself by experiencing through the individual experiences of the individual 'self's. So the 'self' which is just a small part of the SELF can never fathom the depth of the BRAHMAN unless it is attached to the BRAHMAN through active trans-cosmic all-pervading adherence.
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder being free from the bondage of births and deaths is not taking births but being able to be so much connected to the BRAHMAN that the next birth becomes a continuation in the path of achievement of the conscious adherence to the BRAHMAN.
    

    about an hour ago ·
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder mokshabAnCha kaitavapradhAnA.
    

    about an hour ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar When the self is not physical, but the self is consciousness, then the question of microcosm. does not arise. Only when one takes the physical apparatus as self, then this microcosm is reality. The body and the world are with in the mind. The mind is an illusion, on the standpoint of its formless substance,which is consciousness. The truth is hidden within the illusion and it is without the illusion. When self is formless, then the body and the world are mere illusion. That is why the truth realization is possible only through perfect understanding and assimilation. The reasoning base has to be rectified from form to formless in order to unfold the mystery of the mind or illusion. When self is not physical it is erroneous to judge the truth on the base of physical self or waking entity because it leads to intellectual speculations.
    
    Why You Are Not Your Brain, and Other Lessons from the Biology of Consciousness
    
    by :Alva Noë. Hill and Wang, 2009
    
    Alva No, a University of California, Berkeley, philosopher and cognitive scientist, argues that after decades of concerted effort on the part of neuroscientists, psychologists and philosophers "only one proposition about how the brain makes us conscious ... has emerged unchallenged: we don't have a clue." The reason we have been unable to explain the neural basis of consciousness, he says, is that it does not take place in the brain. Consciousness is not something that happens inside us but something we achieve it is more like dancing than it is like the digestive process. To understand consciousness the fact that we think and feel and that a world shows up for us we need to look at a larger system of which the brain is only one element. Consciousness requires the joint operation of brain, body and world. "You are not your brain. The brain, rather, is part of what you are."
    

    about an hour ago ·
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    Dhritisundar Mazumder The self is a wave train of which body and mind and soul are different manifestations [frequencies of component waves]; so whether it is with body or without, it cannot ignore material laws according to the dual nature of matter/waves
    

    34 minutes ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar ‎1. As person perceiving the world one thinks he is born in this world and world existed prior to him, this conviction makes him physical oriented, thus he views and judges the worldview on the physical base therefore his understanding is limited to the physicality.
    Deeper inquiry reveals the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless [consciousness]. On the base of formless [consciousness] as self, one becomes unreal nature of the mind, which appears as waking or dream. Thus, the waking is as unreal as dream.
    When man his world are within the illusion and all his experiences are happenings within the illusion. Until one thinks the physical self as real self, he is bound to be in the realm of duality. The one which knows itself as body with the name is not the body but it is consciousness. When the consciousness withdraws itself then there is neither body, nor the name, nor the world exists. And consciousness alone prevails as non-dual existence.
    Where is the body, where is mind, where is the world; the void; or despair in the true self, which the taintless soul or consciousness. They are or have becomes consciousness.
    One thinks there is mind when he has thoughts, but when thoughts are not considered different from the consciousness, which is the true self, then where is the division into, waking, dream and deep sleep etc.
    Void implies to duality: the universe may not exist but the thought of the second is there. If one knows there is Void [emptiness/nothingness], then there is something there to be known and know. They are or have become consciousness.
    What are scriptures, what is self-knowledge, what is mind without the objects, what is contentment, and where is desirelessness for the formless soul/true self, which is ever devoid of sense of duality. --continued in part -2
    

    10 minutes ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar continued from part -1. -2 What is knowledge? What is ignorance? What is the ego? What is duality? What is mind? What is bondage? What is liberation? What is definableness to the formless self/soul, which is in the form of consciousness?
    All theses appearances are mere mirage, which come and go; hence meaningless to the formless soul/true self.
    The ego based knowledge is not ultimate knowledge because ego based knowledge is dualistic knowledge based on the object [body] as subject. But in non-dualistic Knowledge whatever seems to exist also is consciousness; therefore there is no scope for the existence of the second thing.
    What is past karmas? What is liberation –in this life? and what is that liberation at death?for the birth- less soul,which is ever formless.
    Nearest state to understand the soul by itself is to eliminate mentally waking and dream as in deep sleep. Once this is grasped one has to understand everything is consciousness, which is the true self.
    What is the doer or the enjoyer? What is cessation of thoughts or rising of thoughts? What is immediate perception and its result to, the formless soul, which is ever impersonal. A Gnani is the one who is never afraid of thinking and knowing all his individual experience and the world to be consciousness.
    What is the world and what is meant by the aspirant for liberation; what is contemplative and what is man of knowledge; what the self is and what liberated self to the formless soul, which is the non-dual essence.
    When we analyze the dream experience we find the dream entity, dream world with all people in it appeared as a whole, and the dream reality lasted until waking experience appeared. When one tries to know the truth of his true existence in waking through inquiry, analysis and reasoning, one becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless soul, which is in the form of consciousness which is the essence of the three states from which the three states are made. Thus the illusions of the three states are made of one single substance, which is consciousness. By realizing the formless substance, which is consciousness as self, the ignorance vanishes and one become aware of the fact that the three states are mere illusion on the standpoint of the formless substance ,which is also the witness of the three states.
    When knows the soul as the true self:
    What are projection and retraction, what are end and means; what are failure and success to the formless soul, which is formless and non-dual in its nature. The mirage appears and merges back into its essence is not an appearance at all.
    What is the knower, the means of knowledge, the object of knowledge; what is anything or nothing to the soul which is ever formless. Knower, knowledge, object, thing, nothing or any word one may utter is after all they are the words and words have meaning only within the mirage. The consciousness is ever present in all the three states but as a person, one is unconscious of the consciousness because he thinks the body as his self.
    When all knowing, known and knower are simultaneously mental as in dream what else is there to trouble about understanding them. Because of considering the waking experience as reality one is incapable of understanding and assimilating the nondual truth.
    What is the distraction?What is the concentration, dullness ad delusion, happiness and sorrow to the formless soul, which is ever actionless.
    As a person one may be drawn to observe his body and the world, but the Gnani is not disturbed by because they all are consciousness to him.
    The physical attributes are nothing to do with the soul/self wrongly; all the attributes belong to the ego not the soul. Identifying the physical attribute to the soul is the cause of the ignorance.
    What is relative? What is absolute happiness and misery to the formless soul, which is ever devoid of thought and activity?
    If anything has a meaning it is only in duality. Happiness and sorrow are the nature of duality, which is mind, there differences therefore illusory on the standpoint of theformless soul, which is ultimate reality.
    What is illusion? What is ignorance? What are birth, life and death? What is world? What is attachment and what is detachment to the soul/self, which is ever formless.
    The mind and soul are one in essence ultimately. All argument about consciousness never touches it. The soul is not the ego in this particular body but principle which holds the whole physical existence [universe], which contains everyone and everything known and unknown. All words have no place and thoughts cannot reach. Even the thought of the soul or consciousness is just illusory and contradictory, because the thought and words belong to the world of duality.
    What is activity or inactivity, liberation and bondage to the formless soul/self, which is ever immutable and indivisible. There is no division into nations, races and colours of kinds of men in wisdom. It is not enough to but one must always see the formless soul [consciousness] as self and the witness the witness of all the three states and always realize and practice it. Some people get glimpses of truth and lose it; so it must be established. Such fixidity is the goal.
    What is instruction and scriptural injunction? What is disciple and guru? What indeed is object of life for the formless soul, which is absolute and free from limitation?
    Life is with world. World is within the waking or dream, the illusory limitation. When there is no second other than consciousness, then what is there for the soul /self to attain? But when one thinks the self is physical, then there is various things he will want to get and so be trouble by their lack. Hence don’t wrongly imagine the self to be the body.
    What is existence, non-existence, unity or duality? What need us there to say more? Noting from the soul because whatever seems to emanate from it, is non-different from itself. There is no second thing other then the soul, which is in the form of consciousness. One should not mistake self [soul] for the ego.
    Those who assert world is reality, are still in elementary stages of preliminary analysis. The world is reality within the waking experience but the waking experience is mere illusion. The same way the dream world was reality within the dream experience. The dream became unreal when waking took place same way waking becomes unreal when non-dual wisdom dawns.
    

    8 minutes ago ·
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