In dualistic philosophies the imaginary god is made as creator basing on cause and effect theory. Then the doubt naturally arises, who is the cause of the creator. The creator is dependent on creation for his existence. Without the creation the creator ceases to exist. Thus the dualistic theory holds no water, because it is based on mere imagination and speculation, which they try to prove it on citing the mythological stories and doctrine of code of conducts. When the self is not the body then all these dualistic
ideologies hold no water. Therefore the devotional paths, which are
based on the human conducts, are not the means for TRUTH –REALIZATION.
Even the religious based non-dualism is not the means for truth realization, because their preaching is based on the Nonduality but their practice is based on dualistic
view point. Therefore, it is difficult to get TRUTH –REALIZATION from
conduct based orthodox non-dualism. Thus it looks like the real essence
of non-dualism is lost
or destroyed in the past by the orthodox oriented priest craft and
propagated and injected only priest-crafted non-dualism, to the mass,
the reason best known to the masters of the past. Therefore, it is
impossible to come out of all these priest crafted confusions in one life time. Through orthodox non-dualism it is impossible to get truth realization.
There is no need to collect all this baggage of confusions, if one is seeking truth, nothing but truth. The guru is necessary only in religious and yogic
paths, but guru is not necessary in pursuit of truth. The path of truth
is a personal path and it is the path of verification. But in religion
and yoga the verification is not allowed. Blind faith is the main
ingredient in the belief system and yoga. Gurudom is playing with words because maybe the meaning is floating somewhere in between the spaces of words...--FORMLESS PATH
Santthosh Kumaar Dear Trevor,
I respect your views and wisdom
As per my conviction derived from deeper self-search
The words are used only communication purpose. The look of an object will depend upon the medium through which the observer views it. In fact, our mental and intellectual conditions will determine the phenomenal world observed and experienced. The ignorant viewing the world confronting him sees it different from a Gnani viewing the same world. Each one of us interprets the world one sees in terms of his existing knowledge. A Gnani sees world and its contents as the illusory play as consciousness whereas ignorant sees the world and its contents as reality.
Without realization of the ultimate truth or Brahman man remains as ignorant of the ultimate truth or Brahman. Without realization of ultimate truth, the seeker remains as seeker. On physical plan there is seeker, seeking and destination but from ultimate standpoint there is neither seer, seeking and or destination.
The words may give different meaning at different level of understanding. As one moves deeper and deeper one realizes the thought, thinker, words and the world are one in essence. Thus in the realm of truth the thought and words become meaningless.
When one who has realized that which lies beyond form, time and space does not give impotence to thoughts and words which has value only in falsehood.
World is both real and unreal. It is real because it is a manifestation of consciousness, but is unreal, in the sense, that it is not absolute and eternal like consciousness itself.
Peoples approach is more practical, and they stuck with the reality of the world, they take it as real. That is why all the confusion.
Ive heard this argument a hundred times and I still get lost in the part about whos talking and whos listening OH WELL Simple Minds are sweet too!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Santthosh Kumaar
listener and talker along with the world we exist are one in essence. Soul or consciousness is our innermost self is the witness that experiences the action, the actor, and the world of separate things. It is like a light that illuminates everything in a theatre, revealing the master of ceremonies, the guests, and the dancers with complete impartiality. Even when they all depart, the light shines to reveal their absence.
What is not consciousness (formless) in the experience of diversity [waking]? The waking and the dream cease to exist without consciousness. The seeker, seeking and his destination all are one in essence. if one knows that essence as his innermost self than there is nothing to argue. there is no scope for argument in the realm of truth.
Both seeker and the person you think you are is the problem.