Sunday, September 25, 2011

Adyatmic Discussion -64



“As long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seeds of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love.” ~ Pythagorus
· · · 13 hours ago


    • Santthosh Kumaar Dear brother Satyam Sam Singhji, I fully support vegetarianism and non-violence . But one has to peep in to one’s own religious history which reveals the truth ,which is not known to many the mass that are not even aware of the fact of their own belief system. The vegetarianism is later add-ons and so many adulteration has taken place is in the past.
      References of such commands are replete in scriptures like Manusmriti, Vedas, Upanishads, Brahmins, Grihsutras, Dharmasutras and others.
      Few citations from different scriptures are imperative to bring home the point and clear the misconceptions:-
      Manusmriti (Chapter 5 / Verse 30) says, “It is not sinful to eat meat of eatable animals, for Brahma has created both the eaters and the eatables.”

      Manusmriti (5 / 35) states: When a man who is properly engaged in a ritual does not eat meat, after his death he will become a sacrificial animal during twenty-one rebirths.
      Maharishi Yagyavalkya says in Shatpath Brahmin (3/1/2/21) that, “I eat beef because it is very soft and delicious.”

      Apastamb Grihsutram (1/3/10) says, “The cow should be slaughtered on the arrival of a guest, on the occasion of ‘Shraddha’ of ancestors and on the occasion of a marriage.”

      Rigveda (10/85/13) declares, “On the occasion of a girl’s marriage oxen and cows are slaughtered.”

      Rigveda (6/17/1) states that “Indra used to eat the meat of cow, calf, horse and buffalo.”
      Vashistha Dharmasutra (11/34) writes, “If a Brahmin refuses to eat the meat offered to him on the occasion of ‘Shraddha’ or worship, he goes to hell.”

      Also, comments of some great pundits of Hindu belief system are also worth noting:
      Swami Vivekanand said thus: “You will be surprised to know that according to ancient Hindu rites and rituals, a man cannot be a good Hindu who does not eat beef”. (The Complete Works of Swami Vivekanand, vol.3, p. 536).

      • Mukandilal writes in his book ‘Cow Slaughter – Horns of a Dilemma’, page 18: “In ancient India, cow-slaughter was considered auspicious on the occasions of some ceremonies. Bride and groom used to sit on the hide of a red ox in front of the ‘Vedi’ (alter).”

      • A renowned scholar of scriptures Dr. Pandurang Vaman Kane says, “Bajsancyi Samhita sanctifies beef-eating because of its purity”. (Dharmashastra Vichar Marathi, page 180)

      • Adi Shankaracharya’ commentary on Brihdaranyakopanishad 6/4/18 says : ‘Odan’ (rice) mixed with meat is called ‘Mansodan’. On being asked whose meat it should be, he answers ‘Uksha’. ‘Uksha’ is used for an ox, which is capable to produce semen.

      • The book ‘The History and Culture of the Indian People’, published by Bhartiya Vidya Bhawan, Bombay and edited by renowned historian R.C.Majumdar (Vol.2, page 578) says: “this is said in the Mahabharat that King Rantidev used to kill two thousand other animals in addition to two thousand cows daily in order to give their meat in charity”.
      A great majority of the followers of Hindu belief system are not in contact with their religious scriptures. i just want to highlight so many add-ons and adulteration has taken place in the past thus the Hindu belief system is not pure Vedic religion or Sanatan Dharma.

      12 hours ago ·

    • Satyam Sam Singh Santthosh Ji Thank You ..... in shock no reaction what to say because can't find word !!!!!!! NOW this is true there is NO GOD.
      12 hours ago ·

    • Satyam Sam Singh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GchstgVcXM

      Santthosh Kumaar Ji please watch this _/\_


      www.youtube.com
      Osho explains why vegetarian food is beauitful and whi he does not allow non-veg...See More


      12 hours ago · · 1 person ·

    • Satyam Sam Singh He did say vegetarians are not true vegetarian.
      12 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar All these theories are religiously and theoretically correct. all our individual conducts are right and wrong within the illusion. thus our individual eating and living belongs to illusion. If one vegetarian dreams of eating non-veterinarian food in the dream , the dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. Similarly the vegetarian and his consuming vegetarian food in waking becomes unreal, when wisdom dawns. Wisdom dawns when the self wakes up without the body and the world in the midst of duality.
      11 hours ago · · 1 person

    • Satyam Sam Singh Thank You _/\_
      11 hours ago · · 1 person

    • Satyam Sam Singh What is the purpose of life ?
      11 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar Form Ultimate stand point the life is mere illusion therefore there is no purpose of life. Only on the base of waking entity or ego there is purpose of life. The waking experience itself is mere illusion from ultimate standpoint. When one realizes the self is not form than what purpose the formless self will have, which pervades all the three states as their formless substance and witness. The rivers are identified with their name till they reach and become one with the ocean.Similarly until the mind undefined merges in its formless sourceundefined, man experiences individuality as reality.
      8 hours ago ·

    • Trevor Light Bown One moment Santthosh says that accumilated knowledge is a hinderence to finding truth, then the next moment he is quoting from such text as fact.
      4 hours ago ·

    • Trevor Light Bown Consciousness is alive and looking out of every eye of every animal. Are you saying that because some religious text written hundreds or thousands of years ago is the basis for your actions now?
      4 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar Dear Trevor, the scriptures itself indicate that the scriptural studies are not the means for self knowledge. Thus we have to independently search for truth. whatever is quoted which are throughly verified through deeper verification which leads to rational truth. it is only to help those people who are stuck with the scriptures to drop their accumulated knowledge. It is necessary to highlight in what way the religion,scriptures and concept of god and accumulated blocking one's realization. it is very much necessary to clear all cobwebs of confusion and move a head in pursuit of truth. as the understanding matures one realizes what is said in my posts and blogs is right.
      4 hours ago ·

    • Trevor Light Bown You say on many posts that everyday waking state is same as sleeping dream state when in bed. This is an un-truth you keep on making out as a fact.
      In dream state one may become lucid and realize that he is dreaming, many lucid dreamers have become expert in exploring this dream environment and can control what he experiences .
      The everyday state is tataly different. To say both are same and a mere illusion is bordering on insanity.

      4 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar first find out :- What is not consciousness in this experience of diversity. A person in dream marries at the age 20 and has many children and lives 100 years and dies. and that dream become unreal when the waking takes place. So the 100 years within the dream experienced within half an hour becomes unreal when waking takes place. thus millions of years history becomes unreal when the waking entity realizes it itself is not the self but the formless witness of the three states is the true self. thus mentally clinging to the formless witness, the waking also becomes as unreal as the dream. And one realizes the formless substance and witness of the three states are one in essence. that essence is consciousness. thus consciousness alone is real and all else is illusion.
      3 hours ago ·

    • Trevor Light Bown Do you really think that the non-duality state of consciousness is just a void emtyness without individual beings. You have taken the words void, source, nothingness, silence, emptyness from the viewpoint of a person/thinker. Thought can never enter or describe such a level of consciousness as the non-dualistic timeless realms because like our own consciousness here now, it does not exist on this material level of matter. It is a higher vibration, but that does not mean our vibration/universe is a mirage or ilussion. It may be from a point of view from non-duality, spiritual plane/ but not from a person living in this time space duality/ and having to use the brain in order to function and survive.
      3 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar The dream experience is reality within the dream .the waking experience is reality within the waking experience. the dream is parallel waking and waking is parallel dream. when self is not the body than who slept ,who dreampt ,who woke up. without the consciousness the three states cease to exist. until the self wakes up in its formless non-dual true nature, the waking experience remains as reality and all the judgment and conclusion will be based on the waking entity,which is false self within the false experience. Thus until one learns to view and judge on the base of the formless witness of the three states it becomes difficult to accept what i say in my posting and blogs. it takes time to mentally rectify the reasoning base from form to formless.
      3 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar Dear Trevor, the wisdom dawns when one realizes the duality is non-duality because it is created out of non-dual essence which is consciousness. Self realization is not an individual experience but realizing the self is not a individual but it pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states. When the three states are itself is illusion created out of single stuff than that single stuff is real and eternal. This one has to know the three states are one in essence to bring unity in diversity in his understanding.
      3 hours ago ·

    • Trevor Light Bown As you know, i am in full agreement with 95% of what you are saying.
      But a person of thought can never ever learn to judge from the base of the formless witness. This is the whole point of surrendering and giving up as the seeker of truth. As you say the witness is that eternal no-duality or source of your being that is beyond time and space. Consciousness is non-local and not created in the brain, but the brain is needed to download our limitless self into a package to exist in duality.
      Awareness of each moment is the golden key, reason and knowledge is ok to cut your way out of the spiders web of religion and holy scriptures. The best time to realize time is the great illusion is to be present and aware in this moment now. You will the be witness to all the thoughts that don"t like it here and now. The illussion is to then foget lost in thought and the mirage of everyday existence.

      3 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar The moment is time. The ceases to exit without the form and space. the form,time and space are reality within the waking experience. the form,time and space belongs to individuality and individuality is not truth. There is no man but mind. There is no universe but mind. There is no god but mind. There is no waking but mind. The man and his universe and his individual god and waking experience exist only when the mind exist. The mind exists because of ignorance. The ignorance is there until the illusion is experienced as reality. The mind is myth. The world is myth the waking experience is myth.

      Consciousness is that which knows everything, that which sees. Consciousness alone remains after one gets rid of all thoughts and ideas by identification with self. Consciousness is only the seer; it is not Brahman that is an error. It becomes Brahman only after inquiry and reasoning.

      Man of truth is not cut off from practical life within the practical world, because ultimate truth or Brahman is neither realism nor idealism; it is beyond both these.

      The non-dualistic truth is a rational or scientific truth declared by Buddha and Sri,Sankara centuries back but unfortunately the original essence of the rational nonduality is lost because mainly because of orthodoxy and adulteration and add-ons which are based on the ego, which is the false self.

      The seeker has first indulge in deeper self-search without scriptures and understand assimilate the truth independently to realize the real non-dualistic essence, which leads to self-awareness. Thus independent thinking, reasoning and judgment is very much necessary in pursuit of truth.

      3 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar Think the self is like deep sleep where the waking and dream are absent. start thinking reasoning and concluding everything as formless self. it takes time because of inborn conditioning slowly the subconscious will drop the old habitual pattern of reasoning on the base of form and start reasoning on the base of the formless. But we have to do some effort to become effortlessness.

There is no other God other than the formless soul (consciousness), which the innermost self.




There is no other God other than  the formless soul (consciousness), which the innermost self.

If someone has acquired self-knowledge and shares his acquired knowledge with others, they cannot say that there is nothing for them to do. Everyone has to discover a fresh for himself by verifying all the facts. Each one has to grasp assimilate and realize it until he gets a firm conviction of the ultimate truth or Brahman.

The mind appears due to ignorance. Without ignorance the mind ceases to exist.  Thus mind is in the form of the universe and appears as waking or dream.  The waking or dream is a state of duality. Thus seeker has to hold wherever there is duality there is ignorance.  If duality is considered as reality than the experience of birth, life, death and the world are considered as reality.  If experience birth, life, death and the world are considered as reality than the form, time and space become a reality. If form, time and space becomes reality, than there is diversity in unity.  To bring back the unity in diversity, one has to put the ego into reverse gear until it reaches the ultimate end or source from where mind rises and subsides.     

The seeker has to grow from the inside out by soul-centric reasoning. None can teach him none can make him to reach the ultimate end. There is no other guru but the formless consciousness, which the innermost self. 

The mind is in the form of the universe.  Man is within the world. Man is the physical entity within the universe. The universe appears as waking or dream. The dream is parallel waking and waking is parallel dream.  The formless witness of the mind or the universe or waking is real and eternal. The formless witness itself is the formless substance of the three states.  

The scriptures are for the ignorant masses, who wholly accept the material world as it presents itself. Wisdom is for those who have begun to realize that things are not what they seem.

Each sect concocts a God to suit its own purposes.  Such concocted Gods have no value in pursuit of truth.  The man himself suggests that there must be a God. It is an auto-suggestion. 

Prayers and sacrifices belong to a premature stage of development. However when no answers come to prayers, struggle for existence presses man, and doubt arises again.  Faith in religion weakens as the man pays more attention to the facts of life and this world. 

People take their gurus as their model. Many think that wisdom to be the matter of theorizing.  But it is not so. Non-dualistic or Advaitic  wisdom is nothing to do with practical life, which is limited to form, time and space. Everyone has to experience    birth, life, death and the world within the waking experience.  The dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. And waking becomes unreal when the self, wakes up in its formless non-dual true nature in the midst of waking experience.

Egocentric theorizing   does not lead to self-awareness. Water is the root of the element of the snow and cloud, similarly, consciousness is the root of the element of the universe. From consciousness the universe comes into existence. In consciousness the universe resides. And into the consciousness the universe is dissolved. Consciousness is the parent of all that is there.

All attributes based knowledge, which are inferior, have to be bifurcated and excluded to know the ultimate truth.  The seeker of truth has to drop all the inferior knowledge based on the attributes and go beyond the Vedas to understand assimilate and realize the ultimate truth or Brahman.  

Reason is the common ground for whole humanity in the modern age, whereas the appeal to scriptural relations reaches only the sects.  Those who argue that truth is only in their religion are vain logicians, depending on mere ideas, speculations and imaginations. 

Truth is bitter pill. It becomes very difficult for the seeker to accept it at first; because of his inherited conditioning. Gradually he will be able to grasp it as he moves on.

One has to go beyond Vedas means go beyond religion. Go beyond religion means, go beyond the concept of god.  Thus, going beyond Veda, religion and conceptual god means going beyond illusion.   That is the end of Vedas (Veda –antha)

It is necessary for the seeker to do his homework, and verify the validity of all the claims, rather than blindly believe, what others expound as knowledge, till, the un-contradicted truth is obtained. 

When self is not the waking entity than the experience of birth, life and death is nothing to do with the formless soul, innermost self, which is birthless deathless. The form, time and space are nothing to do with the formless soul, the innermost self.  



Difficulty with people that they consider the self as their body and also their guru's body as guru



 Guru and disciple are one in essence . The essence is consciousness. Difficulty with people that they consider the  self as their   body and also their guru's body as guru. Thus  they follow whatever their guru says and they blindly accept whatever the the guru declares. They do not accept anything other than their accepted truth.  Such mindsets are not fit for pursuit of truth. Deeper self-search is needed to know what is truth and what is untruth.

For Gnani, who is aware of the fact that the self is not physical but self is consciousness, there is no illusion, even though; he is in the midst of illusion, because he is fully aware of the fact that, all the three states are consciousness.  Therefore he is conscious of consciousness in the midst of illusion.  

The language of the duality, invented by the within the duality, for use in the dualistic world, when used to describe non-duality, produces these apparent contradictions, because there no apparatus in non-duality, because noting exist other than the soul, which is in the form of consciousness. 

Non duality is the state of oneness of existence and there is no scope in its philosophy for anything like non-existence. 

Gaudapada’s rational exposition of Advaita: - that whatever is seen, whether external or internal, whether by the ordinary persons or yogis, is unreal.

One has to   respect every ancient teaching and also everyone’s viewpoint but he should not accept them blindly without verifying their validity from the ultimate point of view.  Most of the teachings are amazing and they lead us nearer to the truth, but to reach the ultimate they are inadequate and useless. Thus we have to drop all accumulated dross on that point, and move ahead without any baggage using our own reason and reach the ultimate end.  

It is wrong to say the world arise from the mind.  The mind itself arises from the soul, which is in the form of consciousness.   The man and the world are within the mind. Until one thinks the mind is within the body he will not be able to go beyond duality.  Therefore, there is a need to understand what is mind, which appears as whole experience of waking or dream [duality] and disappears as deep sleep [non-duality].  

When the self is not the body, then what is the use of body based practices like tantra.  They speak of tantric sex but when the true self is formless and it has no gender and in the realm of wisdom no second thing exist other then consciousness.  When there is no man & woman and the world in reality how one can get non-dual ecstasy in sexual climax.   The self is always apart from the appearance.   And whatever is happening within the appearance is nothing to do with the true self.  

Meditation is not wisdom. When self is formless and nature of the self itself is meditation then what is the use of doing meditation as physical body? The self is always apart from   the physical body and the world, because, it witnesses the body as well as the world together.    The self is the formless witness of three states.  Therefore, the main agenda of pursuit of truth is to realize the self as consciousness [formless], and then only it is possible to understand and assimilate the self-knowledge. 

There is only consciousness, which is the true self; however when the consciousness is conceptualizes with different concepts and ideas, so it becomes difficult to understand and assimilate the non-dual truth. Therefore there is no attainment of goal outside of consciousness, which is the formless substance and witness of the three states. 

 Consciousness is the center of the physical existence or mind, and it pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states.  Deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning revels the fact that, consciousness is the true self.  

Holding on to the awareness that the consciousness is the real Self is the goal. The consciousness is already there. The veil of ignorance has to be lifted to overcome the illusion. Therefore Self-Knowledge is the only tool to know and realize the fact that, the veil mere mirage.

One can find answers to all questions if one first realizes the fact that, the self is not physical body but the self is that, which witnesses the physical body and the universe together, without the physical apparatus. 

The ultimate answer to all the questions comes only after one realizes the self is not physical but self is consciousness.  One will be able to understand and assimilate the non-dual truth only after he becomes aware of the fact that, the consciousness is the true self. Therefore, there is a necessary to realize the fact that, “consciousness” is the true self, in order to realize, the body and the universe are mere mirage created out of consciousness. Therefore the whole experience of diversity is nothing but consciousness. Thus consciousness is second to none.   Therefore, to understand and assimilate and realize the consciousness is ultimate truth nothing else will help other then the knowledge of the true self.  

Without knowing the nature of the world, it is impossible to know truth. What is the use of trying to find the inner self before one understands the world, which confronts him? One has to know the world which confronts him is also consciousness.

First one must inquire into the nature of the body. Second he must inquire into the nature of the mind. 

Seeker has to look at everything in nature because in everything there is consciousness. One should not avoid them, or shut his eyes to Nature; one should not shut himself away from the world, which is as much consciousness, as anywhere else. But people who are not sharp say to be non-observant and to withdraw, but keen observation are desirable and will help, not hinder one’s pursuit of truth. Seeker has to Take experiences as they come to him, he should not run away from the world in ascetic fear or shyness of them.

 To say universe is illusion without first examining it, and inquiring into them thoroughly is to delude himself. This universe is common to all; therefore one must begin his inquiry with it first. It is only after he has inquired into the nature of the objective universe, that he should inquire into who is the knower. If, however he inquires into the knower before the inquiry into the universe, then it is mere mysticism. What is the world?, must precede what is mind ? What is the substance of the mind?, in pursuit of truth. 

To know whole truth, one must know the whole universe as consciousness, otherwise he gets half-truth. Renouncing the worldly life to get the truth means incapacity to think, an impotency of thinking faculty. 

One is primarily interested in himself. Hence, to get started on a higher quest he has to go to the root of his own self, i.e. to ask "What am I?" When as a later consequence of this practice he gets more impersonal he has to go to the root of the whole existence, i.e. to ask "What is mind?" 

He who loses touch with the world, which confronts him and gives himself over to his thoughts alone takes his illusions to be realities and will never be able to go beyond his illusory reality. 

Truth is “What is this universe” “What is physical body or ego?  ” What are these three states” “What is the meaning all these together?" 

What happens when thoughts are stilled? It is not the Self that is found. It is only mind. Therefore, through yoga, it is not possible to acquire non-dual wisdom.   Therefore the yogi does not know ultimate truth. Yoga is good to give peace and concentration, but only in order to start reasoning, i.e. thinking again to find the ultimate truth. 

It is not enough to see a mere blank, in meditation. One has to see the body, ego and the universe as consciousness. One is free from ignorance not when he sees nothing at all, as in meditation but only when he sees the entire universe as consciousness. Hence one must know “What is mind, which appeared as universe?”, in order to unfold the mystery of the mind.

Holding on to the awareness that the formless consciousness as the real Self is the goal.



There are diverse spiritual practices in the form of prayers, meditation, yoga, tantra, glorifying the guru or god, meditation and inquiry. etc.


What the goal of spiritual practice might be is described differently in various religions and traditions. In some religions, the goal of spiritual practice is to go to heaven and be with angels, divine beings, and God. In some spiritual traditions, the goal of spiritual practice is said to be union with God. Still, in other schools of thought, the goal of spiritual is freedom from bondage from all concepts including the notions of heaven and God. There are many variations on these themes in the world religions.


The nature of life and existence is generally determined by one’s inherited cultural and traditional conditioning and upbringing or conditioning through circumstances.


From an Eastern meditative perspective, anything that allows the mind to be quiet and content and peaceful in awareness is spiritual practice. The schools of yoga in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism emphasize the path of nonviolence in their spiritual practice. The goal of spiritual practice in these traditions is Moksha or Nirvana. Moksha or Nirvana imply release from all bondage and liberation from the cycle of birth, life and death.



The Advaita perspective emphasizes Self-knowledge as the only means to overcome the idea that self is separate from God or the Universe.  According to this philosophy, when the Self is realized, the false cognition that the world is different from the Self simply vanishes.


There is only consciousness, which is the true self; however when the consciousness is conceptualizes with different concepts and ideas, so it becomes difficult to understand and assimilate the non-dual truth. Therefore there is no attainment of goal outside of consciousness which is the formless substance and witness of the three states.   Consciousness is the center of the physical existence or mind, and it pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states.  Deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning revels the fact that, consciousness is the true self.  


Holding on to the awareness that the formless  consciousness as the real Self is the goal. The consciousness is already there. The veil of ignorance has to be lifted to overcome the illusion. Therefore Self-Knowledge is the only tool to know and realize the fact that, the veil mere mirage.


One can find answers to all questions if one first realizes the fact that, the self is not physical body but the self is that, which witnesses the physical body and the universe together, without the physical apparatus. 


The ultimate answer to all the questions comes only after one realizes the self is not physical but self is consciousness.  One will be able to understand and assimilate the non-dual truth only after he becomes aware of the fact that, the consciousness is the true self. Therefore, there is a necessary to realize the fact that, “consciousness” is the true self, in order to realize, the body and the universe are mere mirage created out of consciousness. Therefore the whole experience of diversity is nothing but consciousness. Thus consciousness is second to none.   Therefore, to understand and assimilate and realize the consciousness is ultimate truth nothing else will help other then the knowledge of the true self.