Self- Knowledge cannot be attained by reasoning based on the ‘I’ [physical based]

Many people are not even aware what is consciousness; though knowing of it, many do not comprehend. Only few expound the knowledge of consciousness and very rare assimilate and realize it.  

It is all because of their inherited religious and social background and grooming. There is a need to dismantle the inherited physical structure mentally to overcome the duality. The whole physical structure is built on the foundation of the ‘I’. Since they think the ‘I’ as Atman(soul) or self, it becomes difficult to grasp and assimilate and realize the non-dual truth.

 ‘I’, appears and disappears as mind (universe or waking or dream) is impermanent, hence it is not the self. The formless knower of the ‘I’ (universe or waking or dream) is the true self. Since people think whatever is propagated by the guru or yogi as ultimate truth and blindly accept it as truth, without verifying the validity of their preaching. This blind acceptance becomes a big hindrance in pursuit of truth. If one is seeking truth, one has to verify the validity of any claim through inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the true base, and accept only un -contradictable truth.

Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana when taught by an unqualified person is not easily comprehended, because it is diversely regarded by disputants. But when it is taught by him who has become one with Atman(soul or consciousness), there can remain no more doubt about It. Atman is subtler than the subtlest and not to be known through argument.

Self- Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana cannot be attained by reasoning based on the ‘I’ [physical based]. Atman becomes easy of comprehension, when taught by another. One has to attain self- Knowledge right now in this very life not in next world or next life.

Gnani, by means of concentration on the true Self, realizes that ancient, effulgent hidden and which dwells and pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states as its formless substance and witness.

The knowing the true Self is not born; It does not die. It has not sprung from anything; nothing has sprung from It. Birth- less, eternal, everlasting and ancient, it is not killed when the body is killed or when the world disappears.  If the murderer thinks he kills and if the killed man thinks he is killed, neither of these apprehends aright. The Self kills not, nor is it killed.

Atman exists in smaller than the small, greater than the great, and is hidden in the three states as its formless substance and witness. A man who is free from viewing and judging the worldview on the base of ‘I’ beholds the Self through tranquillity and becomes free from experiencing the duality as reality.

Gnani, having realized Atman as dwelling within impermanent states is bodiless, pervades the three states as its formless substance and witness and permanent and eternal.

Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana  cannot be acquired by the study of the scriptures, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Atman reveals its own form.

He who has not rectified his seeking base from the ‘I’(form) base to consciousness(formless)base , who does not have the intense urge to know the non-dual truth and who is not tranquil and subdued and whose mind is not receptive , cannot acquire Self-Knowledge or Brahma  Gnana or Atma Gnana . It is realized only through inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the true base.

The modern thinkers cannot get over their tallest hurdle, not because they cannot see that the body is an object but because they are so strongly attached to the body that they modify or fit their theories to please this attachment

I see only one. Many men, One wilderness. Then to what may I cling? - Ashtavakra Gita 2:21

The modern thinkers cannot get over their tallest hurdle, not because they cannot see that the body is an object but because they are so strongly attached to the body that they modify or fit  their theories to please this attachment. In short, they refuse to give up the body. Only those who think body and world are real, are attracted to yoga and mysticism, which is for the middling class of intelligence. Those who grasp that they are mental constructions belong to the highest grade of intellects.

Desire, attachment, passion are regarded as handicaps to path only because they prevent mind accepting truth that matter is an idea. Naturally one will say "he likes the world because it is beautiful. It is so soothing and makes him happy.  Thus he refuse to regard it as a mere mirage," if he is so passionately attached to its reality. They do not necessarily mean specific desires for wealth, women, etc. 

It is not possible to grasp the nondual truth by anyone who is incapable of grasping the truth that universe is mere mirage. And universe is an object to the formless subject.

Non-dual wisdom is verified knowledge or Truth. It is only for that seeker who wants only truth noting but truth. Until and  Unless one is able to go deeper and verify the fact, on his own and realize the fact that,  the  waking experience  also is mental state same way as the dream he will not be able to grasp the nondual truth.  All his idea of reality of the world is reality only on the base of the false self within the false experience.  Thus what is the use of arguing on the base of false self [body] within the false experience [universe]? 

Unless one is able to know the true self is not the body, he experiences the universe in which he exists as reality.  He is unaware of the fact that whatever laws and things he thinks to be real are reality within the unreality or illusion. 

When the body itself is mirage the senses bound to be part and parcel of the mirage.  Man has to exist for universe to exist.  The universe ceases to exist without the man.  Therefore, it is necessary to know the body, ego, universe appear together and disappear together.  The birth, life and death takes place within the universe is reality within the universe but the universe, which is in the form of mind [I] is unreal, because it appears as waking or dream [duality] and disappears as deep sleep [nonduality].

It is absolutely necessary to know the fact that when the mind exists everything in the universe exists. When the mind disappears then the universe also disappears.  For the existence of a thing; the objects are not different from the mind.

Before one can arrive at knowledge that the universe is really a mirage, he must inquire and realize the fact that ‘I’ [or I AM] is not the self but the knower of the ‘I’ [or I AM] is the self.  If ‘I’ [or I AM] is not the self, then he has to accept the fact that, the formless knower of the ‘I’ [or I AM] AS    self. On the base of the formless knower the ‘I’ [or I AM] is bound to be falsehood.  Thus the mentalism or any theory based on the ‘I’ [or I AM] is bound to be part of the mirage.

The universe and all its contents are with the mind, therefore, the universe is ultimately minds itself. Because one cannot say that matter is independent of mind and he can influence matter. Scientists say now that matter is mind-body. One has to know that matter is only mind. 


Whatever exists within the universe or as universe, they exist as mind. No scientist has been able to explain how and when man —his consciousness--came into existence.

The waking entity has no place; in dream, because dream has its own entity and its own universe. The mind [I or I AM] appears as waking or dream and disappear as deep sleep. Same way the waking has its own entity and universe.  Thus the consciousness is constantly changing as waking, dream and deep sleep. Consciousness the self, which pervades everywhere and in everything in all the three states as its formless substance.  The substance of mind is the witness of the mind [I or I am]. Thus the substance and witness are one in essence the essence is consciousness. 

You need not accept anything because I am saying or somebody is claiming.

The words are mere communication purpose.  It has to be used until we reach our spiritual destination. You need not accept anything because I am saying or somebody is claiming.  You have to verify through deeper inquiry and reasoning whatever I am saying.  Imposing my ideas on others is not my aim and it is not correct in pursuit of truth. I am just sharing what I acquired from deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning.

The seekers of truth have to think it on a different base to overcome all the obstacles in the inner journey.  No one has the previous knowledge of the soul because they function themselves as a person (physical self or ego or waking entity).

Everyone speculates and imagine whatever they have heard and read on the base of physical self/ego. By reading or hearing the realization of  the true “Self “will not occur, but by investigating through deeper  inquiry, analysis  and reasoning, one becomes aware of the fact that, the experience of  diversity[waking/dream] is mere illusion  created out of single stuff ,which we call it as soul/spirit/self or with many other words.  Thus lots of homework is necessary to assimilate the self-knowledge.  

It is completely a mental effort through deeper thinking one’s attention is shifted on the stuff/source/soul/spirit/consciousness/self/awareness/emptiness/nothingness/Christ consciousness/Buddha’s nature/center or whatever words one name it or calls it; it is one and the same thing. 

Without using any scriptural words it can be explained in the following way.  The scriptural baggage is of no use in pursuit of truth as declared in the Upanishads.  

Ultimate truth cannot be known in the sense in which one knows objects of thought. It can be known only to the extent to which he knows them, for he can only think of the knower when he is in the presence of the known, i.e. Objects, for the latter makes him aware that a knower must exist.

Thus duality makes one think of the knower, but it cannot make him know the knower. The knower is known in the world of duality only by implication, as he cannot think without a knower. The knower is a concept, and cannot be known in itself.

Ultimate truth is known only in the negative way. One cannot make it an object of knowledge. One can know that he cannot have an idea of an object unless he posits a knower, unless the knower is implied already.

The formless witness or knower itself is wisdom, that is, it knows everything else. The self is known only when one sees something else, for that other thing reminds him of it. The self is unknowable as an object, because the mind is an object to the true self (consciousness).

Knowing the ultimate truth means knowing that consciousness exists. The word “know” implies duality, something known; on the other hand non-dual wisdom does imply an object. The witness (true self or Consciousness) knows the three states (body + ego+ universe) as an object. The knowing powers, the witness, the knower can have no statement made about it, other than that its existence cannot be negated. The ultimate truth which one can know is that consciousness is not something to be known.

We are thinking of the mind within the mind, which appears as waking or dream experience.

The thoughts cannot arise without the waking or dream experience. Absent of waking or dream is absent of thoughts and experiences. The thoughts and functioning of the dream body and dream world are reality within the dream. Same way, the thoughts and all the individual experiences and the waking world are reality within the waking experience. The point here is the waking experience (mind) itself is falsehood on the standpoint of the formless witness.

 Until we wake up in our formless true identity without the body and without the world, we keep experiencing the duality [mind] as reality.  Thus, it is necessary to mentally grasp the existence of the formless witness to realize the fact that, the body and universe with all its contents are also mirage created out of consciousness. Thus consciousness alone is and all else is illusion.  The illusion also is consciousness because it created and sustained and finally it dissolves as consciousness.  Therefore, there is neither creation nor the creator in non-dual reality because the whole diversity (mind) is created out of single stuff.

It takes a time to understand and assimilate the ultimate truth, because we have to burn all the accumulated dross which has become the great obstacle in realizing the truth.

There is no need to know the functioning of the mind is not limited to the body because the mind is the whole physical existence (body+ universe).   Therefore, there is a need for correction in our understanding, which is based on the birth entity, which is not the self.

All the accumulate knowledge based on the birth (waking) entity is of no use in understanding and assimilating the Self-Knowledge or Bramha Gnana or Atma Gnana.   There is a need to learn to view and judge the truth on the base of true self (consciousness)to understand and assimilate the Self-Knowledge or Bramha Gnana or Atma Gnana .  

“Self” is neither the male nor female.*****

Deeper self-search reveals the fact that, “Self” is neither the male nor female.  the 'Self' is not you but the Soul, which is present in the form of the consciousness. the consciousness is formless, timeless and spaceless existence.

The Soul the 'Self is permanent and eternal and apart.  It is apart because “Self “is not an entity or identity within the waking or dream. The Soul, the 'Self', which is present in the form of the consciousness pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states. thus, the Soul is not an individual and soul cannot be identified as male or female because it is ever formless, timeless and spaceless existence. 

Thus, the individual experiences within the waking experience are as real as a dream.  

If one has sex in a dream world and the dream becomes unreal when the waking takes place, similarly when you realize the 'Self is not you but the 'Self' is the Soul then the waking experience also becomes unreal. 

The dream is a parallel waking experience.  And waking experience is a parallel dream.  If one view and judges and concludes the truth on the base of the birth entity then he will remain in ignorance of the 'Self' hidden by the ignorance.

The sex is nothing to do with the Soul, the 'Self, which is genderless.  The one which indulges is in sexual activities is the one which is born, lives and dies whereas the Soul the 'Self is unborn eternal.  

Swami Vivekananda:~ The Soul is also sexless; we cannot say of the Atman that it is a man or a woman. Sex belongs to the body alone. All such ideas, therefore, as man or woman, are a delusion when spoken with regard to the Self, and are only proper when spoken of the body. So are the ideas of age. It never ages; the ancient One is always the same. How did It come down to earth? There is but one answer to that in our scriptures. Ignorance is the cause of all this bondage. It is through ignorance that we have become bound; knowledge will cure it by taking us to the other side.  - Swami Vivekananda  The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda/Volume 3/Lectures from Colombo to Almora/Vedantism

The Soul, the Self itself is God. Soul has no ‘form material shape.  The Soul, the 'Self' is present in the form of the Spirit. The Soul cannot be seen directly by anyone. The Soul pervades all beings and all directions.

Even in  Bhagavad Gita it is mentioned:~

(THE SPIRIT IS ETERNAL - THE 'I' IS TRANSITORY)

That is why Bhagavad Gita: ~ The permanent is always there, only the transient ‘I’ comes and goes. (2.18)

The ‘I’ hides the truth of the whole. 

Bhagavad Gita: ~ “You must first see the ‘I’ as illusory before you see others as illusory. ~ CH.2 v.16

People think the ‘I’ without the body is the Self. The seeker has to understand the fact that the fact that ‘I’ is not the Self, but the witness of the ‘I’ is the true Self, which is eternal.

The invisible Spirit (Atma, Atman) is eternal, and the "I' is transitory. The reality of these two is indeed certainly seen by the seers of truth. (2.16)

The Spirit by whom this entire universe is pervaded is indestructible. No one can destroy the imperishable Spirit. (2.17)

The one who thinks that the Spirit is a slayer, and the one who thinks the Spirit is slain, both are ignorant. Because the Spirit neither slays nor is slain. (2.19)

The Spirit is neither born nor does it die at any time. It does not come into being, or cease to exist. It is unborn, eternal, permanent, and primeval. The Spirit is not destroyed when the body is destroyed.(2.20)

O Arjuna, how can a person who knows that the Spirit is indestructible, eternal, unborn, and immutable, kill anyone or causes anyone to be killed? (2.21)

Along with the universe one comes: along with the universe one goes. In universe one is born: in universe one dies. In universe one gives, in universe one takes. In universe one earns, in universe one wastes. In universe is one truthful or lies like a liar. In universe one reflects on Virtue and Sin. In universe do we land in Heaven and Hell. In universe one is happy, in universe one is in sorrow. In universe one commit sin, in universe one washes it off. In universe does one lose the distinctions of caste and kind? In universe one is wise; in universe one is unwise.

The mind appeared as universe. Universe is the illusion; in illusion is one shadowed by Doubts. Within the illusion is our birth, life, death and the universe is reality.

Sage Sri, Sankara says you must first know what is before you. If you cannot know that, what else can you know or understand? If you give up the external world in your inquiry, you cannot get the whole truth.

Sage Sri, Sankara says: ~ V.63 ~ "Without knowing and examining the external world, one can’t know Truth, as the idea that the external world exists, won't go. It can go only by an inquiry into the nature of the external world.

Sage Sri Sankara: ~ “VC~ All this universe which through ignorance appears as of diverse forms, is nothing else but Brahman (Consciousness) which is absolutely free from all the limitations of human thought.

The universe is the product of ignorance. The ignorance is present in the form of the ‘I’.

Sage Sri, Sankara says: - VC-47   All the effects of ignorance, root, and branch, are burnt down by the fire of knowledge, which arises from discrimination between these two—the Self and the not-Self.

Until you think you are an individual separate from the world and the world existed prior to you and you are born in it afterward the ignorance will prevail as a reality.  Till ignorance is there the universe prevails as reality.

Sage Sri, Sankara says: ~ “The exercise in discrimination between real and unreal and renunciation of the false is real meditation, then why you are indulging in other types of meditation.

Perfect understanding and realization of ‘what is what’ leads Self-awareness. By holding on to theories one remains in the realm of duality. You have to mentally go on dropping what is not the truth through deeper Self-search. Finally when you become aware of the fact that, your ego, your body, and the world are one in essence then there is Self-awareness in the midst of dualistic illusion. 

To say the universe is an illusion without first examining it and inquiring into its nature thoroughly is to delude oneself. This world is common to every one of us; therefore the seeker of truth must begin his inquiry with it. It is only after he has inquired into the nature of the objective world, he realizes the universe which through ignorance appears as of diverse forms, is nothing else but the Soul which is present in the form of consciousness is absolutely free from all the limitations of human thought.

That is why Ashtavakra Gita 16:10:~ If you desire liberation, but you still say "I," if you feel the ‘Self’ is the ‘I’, you are not a wise man or a seeker. You are simply a man who suffers. 

People are stuck with the reality of the ‘I’, which they take it as real because some Gurus have propagated the Self is the ‘I’. There is no need to convince such mindsets. The seeker of truth accepts only the truth nothing but the truth. 

Perfect understanding and assimilation of ‘what is what’ lead to Advaitic Self-awareness. : ~ Santthosh Kumaar

The religious realist rejects the all talks of illusion

The religious based realist will not be able to grasp, understand, assimilate and realize the non-dualistic or Advaitic  truth because they are egocentric.  The religious realist rejects the all talks of illusion.  The realist believes in a vast universe of material things, there are an infinite numbers of finite conscious souls inhabiting material bodies and there is God. They are incapable of grasping non-dual awareness because of their awareness is limited to physicality. And they take their physical experience as reality without verifying the fact that, the self is not physical. Until their reason is based on the physical self they will not be able to realize the non-dualistic  truth.

In addition they follow the path of devotion to the imaginary entity as god and love for the imagined God. Devotion demands distinction between devotee and the Deity.  Thus the duality prevails. Until duality is there is no reality because duality hides the reality.  Thus, they will remain believing the false self as real self and false experience as reality and get in the bondage of birth, life, death and the world and permanently remain in the prison of ignorance believing the ignorance as reality.     

They hold that universe of souls and material objects, the very universe one can see through see with himself as he turns his gaze inwards, is actually body of the God. Just as the human soul is the animator and controller of its body, so the God is the animator and controller of the universe. God penetrates every atom of it; he is inseparable from it.  Furthermore, there is no other reality anywhere besides this all-pervading god.   

For realist the souls and things are essentially different from God, not just apparently, and they will always be different. As realist think god is immeasurably raised above all possibility of anyone being equal or superior to God.  God besides pervading all, love all. God delights in attracting souls to Himself. God’s mercy extends to all cast down to the lowliest. All one has to do is surrender his will to the god. And sooner or later every soul will—in the end no soul will want to resist his free grace. Thus realist believes in universal salvation.  This belief is consistent with their view that all soul starts with the same spiritual apparatus.  None is privileged when brought forth into manifestation.   What differentiate one from another is choices each makes, their respective actions, over the course of many lives. And just as they all start out the same, they end up the same when finally from cycle of birth and death.  They think no soul is superior to another.

All these religious realist theories based on the false self (ego) considering the false experience (waking) as reality.  All these theories are good for the mass mind-set that is incapable of verifying the validity of their own existence.   

Deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning revels the fact that, the self is not physical but the self is the formless soul, which is in the form of consciousness.  Therefore, on the base of soul (consciousness) as self the physical existence (mind or universe) is mere mirage created out of consciousness.  Thus consciousness alone is real and alleles are mere mirage.

Thus, by accepting himself as devotee of a deity or disciple of some guru one has accepted himself as an individual separate from the world. By accepting himself as an individual he remains ignorant of the reality, which is hidden within the mind which appears as waking or dream (duality) and disappears as deep sleep (non-duality). The one which is aware of the appearance and disappearance of the mind is not the form but it is formless. The formless knower is consciousness.  The consciousness is the formless substance and witness of the mind (I).     

One who has immersed in the intoxication of ignorance has to overcome the intoxication of illusion by seeking truth directly by inquiring into the nature of the mind and learn the truth of the soul, which is in the form of consciousness.

The ignorance is the source of duality. And duality is the cause of illusion. Illusion is cause of experiencing unreality as reality.  Therefore, one has to eradicate the ignorance completely through knowledge of true self, which is consciousness. To freedom there is no entrance except non-dual wisdom.

Devotion and yoga are based on the false self (ego) therefore they are not the means to acquire Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.  The ignorance lifts only on the rise of non-dual wisdom.   It is impossible to cross the threshold of duality without the knowledge of the soul, which is in the form of consciousness.  Non-dual wisdom means the full and firm realization beyond all doubts, confusions, change, contradictions. 

Neither by regulating the breath nor by deeds, nor by glorifying god or gurus, nor scriptural studies one gets non-dual wisdom, because all of them are based on the ego. Whatever is related to ego is ignorance

The non-dual wisdom originates when one starts identifying his - self with the consciousness by realizing the fact that, the self is not physical. And when the focus of attention of the self turns on itself, then the three states are mere mirage created out of the consciousness. There is no second thing exists other then consciousness. 

Till one thinks he an individual separate from the world he will not be able to assimilate the self-knowledge because he feels he is the doer or Author

Also this enquiry should have no previous knowledge of 'soul' and the phenomenon of 'illusion' otherwise it will lead to true illusion!

Till  one thinks he an individual separate from the world he will not be able to assimilate the self-knowledge because he feels he is the doer or Author.  The sense of doer ship is with in the waking experience which is mere illusion.  The people who think they are born in this world and world existed prior to them have not gone into deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning.  

They base themselves on the physical entity, and stuck to their intellectuality and accepted their accumulated knowledge as truth.  They will not accept anything as truth other then their understanding on the base of ‘I’ which is the false base.  They remain in  confusion and try to argue on the physical base such arguments has no end, because the truth is based on the formless and false is based on the form(ego or waking entity).  Thus, whatever is seen known, believed and experienced on the false base has to falsehood.  Thus the birth, life and death [even the sex] which is based on the physical entity is part and parcel of the falsehood. 

Intellectuality is limited to physicality.  Thus, the mind cannot cross the threshold of duality and they are stuck to finding the truth through sex, virtues, love, good deeds and compassion which is the attributes of the false self within the false experience.

Until one gets convinced that the ‘I’ is not self, he will remain in ignorance of the true self which is formless. If self is formless then the birth life and death has to be illusion. Therefore it is necessary to know and realize the fact that the self is not the form but it is formless before indulging in the inner mental journey.

Inquiry is not the set of questions but clearing all the doubts and confusion through deeper reasoning on his own.   There are no scope arguments in pursuit of truth, because it is personal journey starts within the falsehood and ends in realizing the truth. Thus the arguments based on the false self will not lead one towards the nondual goal. The seeker of truth has to share assimilation of knowledge and help and inspire the fellow seekers and divert their attention from outer to inwardness.

    

Deeper self-search is to know:-

v  “With what one knows himself and his experience of the world?

v  How he and his experience of the world have come into existence and with what?  

  Until one becomes aware of that,  that ,which is responsible for him to function as a person and perceive the world, he will not become aware of the fact that, the true  self is formless, nameless identity.

It cannot be called anything and it cannot be approached, because it exits prior to waking/dream. And prior to the appearance of waking and dream there is nothingness or emptiness.  That emptiness or nothingness itself is the soul/spirit, which is the formless substance and witness of the three states.

Without this formless substance which is in the form of consciousness noting can exist. The formless soul, the innermost self is the center of the physical existence.  When the center is aware of the objects (waking or dream) it becomes mind.  When the center is aware of its formless non-dual true nature it is soul/spirit.  

Until one reaches the source through deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning he will not be able to reach and understand, assimilate and realize the self.

Accumulated knowledge is not the yardstick to judge what is truth and what is untruth. Until and unless one knows what is truth how he can know what is untruth. Therefore, being in illusion and inquiring on the base of false self within the illusion leads only to intellectuality.  Therefore, there is a need to indulge in deeper inquiry and know the ‘I’ (waking entity or ego) is the false self, and the true self is without the body that is formless. If one gets the conviction that the self is formless, then he is ready and prepared for the inner journey.

All the knowledge of the physical existence [man + world] is not based on the body, because the self is not the body. Therefore, it is necessary to know the self, which is not the body, to know the self is independent and the body + world are dependent on the Self to function itself and perceives the world.

If one says:- To me the only fact is the 'Present' where the 'I' is nothing but memory; so the question of 'soul' does not arise to live in the Present.

Deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning reveal the fact that, if ‘I’ is there then the waking experience is there. When the ‘I’ disappears the waking experience disappears.  Thus ‘I’ is not limited to the physical entity within the waking experience, but to the whole waking experience.   When we limit the ‘I’ to waking or dream entity, it becomes ego.  If we base ourselves on ego and try to understand the truth we will not be able cross the threshold of duality, because the truth is beyond the three states.  Whatever we experienced as reality within the waking is falsehood. Whatever prevails without the falsehood is the formless soul, the innermost self from where the waking or dream rises and subsides. 

If one says:- To me the only fact is the 'Present' where the 'I' is nothing but memory; so the question of 'soul' does not arise to live in the Present.

The present becomes past moment to moment. The past, present and future are reality only on the base of physical self.  The form, time and space part of the falsehood. The physical self and the world cease to exist without the waking experience.  The memory is based on the individuality. The individuality is reality within the waking/dream. The waking is parallel dream. And dream is parallel waking experience.  The body and the world [waking/dream] are mere experience. The experiencer is formless.  When the experience disappears the formless experiencer [spirit] prevails as birth- less and deathless identity which is our true self.  On the base of true self waking and dream are mere mirage created out our true identity. 

If one says:-   The world illusion effects us everyday, to earn a living, conflicts and challenges; to which we respond; just as you are responding to these questions.

Until we consider the ‘I’ is the self the burden and bondage of duality is on ego/physical self. Once one realizes the fact that ‘I’ is not the self the burden and bondage is on the formless source from where, the duality or mind rises and subsides.

Once one establishes his reason on the source(soul or consciousness), waking(duality) is mere mirage which is a passing show.    Thus the, to earn a living, conflicts and challenges are reality within the passing show.  The formless source is the true self, which is the formless witness of the passing show. The passing show is bound by form, time and space.   The reality is formless, timeless and spaceless existence.

Without any religious and yogic background or training it becomes easier to grasp the non-dual truth

Without any religious and yogic  background or training it becomes easier to grasp the non-dualistic or Advaitic  truth.  The only way towards non-dual destination is, to ignore all the paths and practices. There is no need to follow anyone.  One has to trace the formless substance and witness of the three states mentally   and rip the veil of ignorance to know the fact that, all the three states are mere mirage created out of consciousness.  When one becomes aware of the fact that the consciousness is the true self, then the body, ego, universe is part of the mirage. 

The ideas such as bondage and liberation are of the mirage, which is present as mind. One has to simply abandon all craving and through wisdom and dispassion bring about the cessation of the mind. Even if the desire to be liberated" arises, the mind [illusion] will prevail as reality.

 The ego is a monkey within the jungle of illusion. Totally fascinated by the realm of the senses, it swings from one desire to the next, one conflict to the next, but its existence is limited to the mind, which is illusion.

Let this illusion go. Let the mind go. Let duality go. Let conflicts go. Let experience go. Let the fiction of birth, life death and universe go. Just by remaining soul centric the ignorance vanishes. When the ignorance vanishes then the whole mind [illusion], which contains    duality, conflicts, experience, factious birth, life, death and universe becomes unreal.  All the mental barriers will be reduced to nothingness, which is consciousness.

When Yogi comes out of Samadhi and immediately duality confronts him again.

Yogi takes for granted that there is an Iswara--God, gives it to people for concentration purposes, and then they naturally find God in their meditations. But it is only his imagined God.

Mystics see what they are looking for or that whose existence they presuppose. Therefore Yoga belongs to religion, not Philosophy.

God is mere belief; no one has proved that there is a God. No one has proved that the individual is God or Brahman.  Personal experience which is not universally valid is no proof, neither is ecstatic feeling.

What one knows must be tested, to see if it be true or not. Experience must be taken, checked, analysed and corrected. It is the characteristic of all human beings to believe they understand, even when they do not. Otherwise he may be merely imagining as he like.

The reasoning base has to be rectified from form to formless to get faultless judgement.  The defective interpretation is to apply it only to waking state. The correct interpretation is to apply it to the three states. The latter leads to final settlement of the problems because it takes all data into consideration.  Opinions belong to scholasticism. And opinions are of no use in pursuit of truth.

If one has a belief, it is because somebody else believes it; or the majority believes it--or it is his own experience. Is it religious authority or religious sanction or is it based upon a feeling of certainty?

People believe it merely because it is for them to believe and very difficult for them to reason.  The belief makes one more and more ignorance of the true self. Without realizing the true self is not the physical but the formless soul, the true will not be revealed.  The belief system rests on the belief because it is based on the belief. The truth is based on the reason not on the belief.  Nearly all people want their own imagination, not truth.

When Yogi comes out of Samadhi and immediately duality confronts him again. His peace goes, it was depended Samadhi or sleep. Hence no yogi attains true peace, but he imagines it.  

It is not possible know that a Yogi is self-realized because the yogic Samadhi is not self-realization.  One must first find out that what he has got is Samadhi or wisdom. Only through non-dual wisdom one gets self realization.  The yogic Samadhi cannot be considered as non-dual wisdom. Therefore there is need to verify the facts. . 

 If a god men claims “I am god “No one can disapprove. Similarly with all other yogis who assert they know Brahman in Samadhi. There is no possibility of proof or disproof. Hence these yogis assume or imagine they are god and   they cheat themselves or others without knowing what god is in reality. 

When one cannot know the world in front of him then how can he know the God? He will only know his imagination of a God. How can he say his God is all-merciful, when the god is formless and cannot be perceivable from physical eyes? 

Sanyasins are enjoined not to accept anything or ask for anything in order to get established in Atman. Religion propagates that only Sanyasis can have Atma Gnana, but it is not so, anyone who    trains himself to reason on the base of the true self will be able to acquire non-dualistic  wisdom.  Blessings are religious fable. Only pretenders give blessings. A Gnani neither blesses nor curses.

The yogi fail to see non-duality in Samadhi, because he believes there is bliss to come to him from Samadhi. That shows he does not know truth, but still seeks bliss as something apart from himself. 

It is no use seeing God everywhere. One must see Atman, the same consciousness, the same self, everywhere, and then he will be able  to accept all the three states  alike(as consciousness), with sameness.

Adyatmic discussion -65

Santthosh Kumaar

The truth is easier without accumulated baggage. Nothing is needed other I than investigating what is mind? What is the substance of the mind? and what is the source of the mind? But people want to argue more than discussion. Arguments leads nowhere but discussion on the subject without mixing anything takes one to the ultimate end. Inner urge to know the truth and patience and humility are must in pursuit of truth. One must have the intense urge to know the truth and ready to drop all the accumulated baggage than only it is possible to assimilate and realize the nondual truth.

· · · 8 hours ago near Dharwad

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  Jacqueline Porte likes this.
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    Rs Mani Without the right means of knowledge. no knowledge is possible even that of self. To know about the self, the means of knowledge is "Shabda" or words of the Scriptures.
    

    6 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar Katha Upanishad:
    This Ataman cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Ataman reveals Its own form. [Katha Upanishad Ch-II -23-P-20]
    Mundaka Upanishad :-
    This Ataman cannot be attained through study of the Vedas, nor through intelligence, nor through much learning. He who chooses Ataman—by him alone is Ataman attained. It is Ataman that reveals to the seeker Its true nature. [ 3 page70 Mundaka Upanishad Upanishads by Nikilanada]
    
    When the Upanishad says: the human goal is to acquire Self-Knowledge and they indicate the personal gods, scriptures, worship and rituals are not the means to Self –Knowledge, then why anyone should indulge in it. The religion, concept of individualized god and scriptures are greatest obstacle to realize non-dual truth or self-realization, because they are based on false self. Therefore, one has to search the ultimate truth without losing himself in the labyrinths of philosophy, he should indulge in deeper, inquiry, analysis and reasoning and assimilate and realize it.
    

    5 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar Sri, Sankara says in Viveka Chudamani indicated that:-
    56. Neither by Yoga, nor by Sankhya, nor by work, nor by learning, but by the realisation of one's identity with Brahman is Liberation possible, and by no other means.
    58. Loud speech consisting of a shower of words, the skill in expounding the Scriptures, and likewise erudition - these merely bring on a little personal enjoyment to the scholar, but are no good for Liberation.
    59. The study of the Scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known.
    60. The Scriptures consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely causes the mind to ramble. Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of the Self.
    61. For one who has been bitten by the serpent of Ignorance, the only remedy is the knowledge of Brahman. Of what avail are the Vedas and (other) Scriptures, Mantras (sacred formulae) and medicines to such a one?
    

    5 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar Ramana Maharshi says:-
    Q by D:- Is not necessary to study the Vedas or at least the Prasthanatraya [the Bhagavad Gita,Dasopanishad and Brahma Sutras, all with commentaries]to ensure firm realization?
    Sri, Ramana Maharishi:-No. Do you need all that to see yourself? All that is intellectual wealth, useful in explain doubts and difficulties if others rise them or if you yourself encounter them in the course of thinking. But to attain realization, all that is not necessary. You want fresh water to drink, but you do not require all the water of the river Ganges to quench your thirst. [Page 111/112 of Practical guide to know yourself c/e by A.R.N].
    

    5 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar The study of the Vedas, linguistics, Rituals, astronomy and all the arts Can be called lower knowledge. The higher Is that which leads to Self-realization. The eye cannot see it; mind cannot grasp it. The deathless Self has neither caste nor race, Neither eyes not ears nor hands nor feet. Sages say this Self is infinite in the great And in the small, everlasting and changeless, The source of life.
    - Mundaka Upanishad
    

    5 minutes ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar Seeker of truth has to know somewhere he is going wrong, and it is for the seeker to go on his own and remove the obstacle. The greatest hindrance is mixing religion, god, scriptures, and yogic theories. Moreover, attachment to scriptures, personal god and religious code of conduct keeps one permanently in the grip of duality.
    For the same reason Raman Maharshi said: fortunate are the one who do not lose themselves in the labyrinths of philosophy. Bhagwan says: Take Vedanta, for instance: it speaks of 15 pranas the names and functions of it which the student is asked to commit memory. Will it not be sufficient if he thought, only one prana does the whole work of maintaining the body? Again the antakaran is said to think, to desire, to will, to reason etc. Why all these details? Has anyone seen antakarana, or all these pranas? Do they really exist? They are conceptual divisions invented by teachers of philosophy by their excessive analysis. Where do all these concepts end? Why should confusion created and then explained away? Fortunate is the man who does not lose himself in the labyrinths of philosophy, but goes straight to the source from which they all arise. (GURU RAMANA .By S.S Cohen -vii Danger of philosophy-Page -58-59)
    Therefore, highlighting the obstacles in pursuit of truth, that helps the fellow seekers, to reach their non-dual destination, in lesser time and efforT.