Adyathmic Discussion --390 -(chirst conciousness).

Trev light Bown: - This was posted as a comment to a post by Leonard Jacobson saying that Christ consciousness and God consciousness are not same Formless non duality.

Dearest Trev,

I respect the views and wisdom of Leonard Jacobson

As per my conviction

Firstly Christ is not physical. Christ means ultimate truth or Brahman. Brahman is God.  There is only one consciousness because consciousness is second to none.  

No conceptual God can exist, apart from the spirit (consciousness) because the spirit itself is God.  

People are not aware of the fact that, there is no individual God can exist, apart from consciousness, which is in the form of consciousness. Thus the consciousness is the consciousness.  Consciousness is the true self.   If there is no consciousness, then there is no body, no ego, no universe, no religion and no conceptual god. 

People think that there must be a creator of this universe. If one thinks physical entity or ego  as self, then there is a creator, but if one thinks the consciousness or consciousness  as the Self, then there is nothing exists other than the consciousness, which is the true self. 

If one objectifies and sees a universe, then he is bound to see many things beside himself and postulate a God, the creator. Body, God and world rise and set together from, and into, the Self (consciousness). If God is apart from the Self (spirit or consciousness), then He would be selfless, that is, outside existence, that is, non-existent.

Consciousness is the root element of the universe. From consciousness the universe comes into existence. In the consciousness the universe resides. And into the consciousness the universe is dissolved.   Consciousness is the parent of all that is there is.

The consciousness is the only reality, and the universe to but an illusory manifestation. Advaita does not prove that there is ONE! It proves that there is no second thing.

Theological thinkers say God is a perfect being, but they have never known God, never proved his existence; hence their ascription of perfection to Him is purely self-imagined. If one has to test truth in the next world only, then there is no proof of the existence of the next world, other than it is mentioned in the doctrines. The doctrines truth is not ultimate truth.  Scriptures are being added to from time to time. This process will go on. There is the final authority among them? One contradicts the other: duality reigns supreme.

Suppose one sees God. How is he to know that He is God? His mere statement is not enough. He must have proof; He must show that He is God.

It is impossible to prove the existence of God by any reasoning: one can only say "I believe. Belief is not truth. “The most rational position is that:  "I do not know."  Every religion has its own idea of the god,   the paradise, heaven, sin and karma.  But where people have got a little thinking capacity, they begin to disbelieve through the contradictions of various contending orthodox claims and descriptions.

Unless one gives up the ideas of the idea of god, heaven and hell, it is impossible assimilate Nondualistic or Advaitic truth. Truth must be proved here and now, on this world, in this very life. Not in next world and next life.  The idea, as the existence of personal God heaven, hell and sin and karma are mere imagination based on the false self (waking entity) within the false experience (waking).  When waking experience itself is false then whatever one sees, knows, believe and experiences are bound to be falsehood.

The seeker of truth has to pursue this quest until his questions will be answered, until his problems will disappear and his doubts will be solved.  Only through soul-centricity the truth will revealed.

Only in non-duality, where there are no two to argue about views or to have a difference of opinion can such doubtlessness be possible.  Belief depends upon unstable bases whereas certainty depends on proof.

The Kingdom of God is inside you and all around you, Not in a mansion of wood and stone.  Split a piece of wood and God is there, Lift a stone and you will find God." (Gospel of Thomas)

"Jesus said: -"Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all." (Gospel of Thomas 2)

Jesus said: -”Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you. (THE GOSPEL OF THOMAS- Saying 5)

Gospel Thomas Logan 22: - Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, “These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom.”

They said to him, “Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?”

Jesus said to them, “When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female is female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom.”

n  It means –where there are no two (duality) there is Nonduality.  Nonduality is the nature of the  Spirit or God. The one who realzes there is only one (spirit)  enter the kingdom. 

Consciousness  has no such thing as upper or lower (part), it has no inside or outside, it has no middle or any ‘across’, and it has no eastern or western direction, because it is all-pervading like space or pervades space also. It is one and without parts. It remains as the one self, free from all diversities.

Consciousness is formless and colorless; it is not tiny, nor big. It is neither short nor long. It is not knowable since it is of the nature of effulgence. It remains as the one self, free from the dualities.

There is neither teacher nor teaching, neither student nor instruction, neither “Me” nor “you”, nor this universe. The knowledge of the real nature of consciousness does not admit of different perceptions. It remains as the one auspicious self, free from all attributes.

Consciousness, which is the true self, does not have the state of waking, nor of the dream, nor of deep sleep. These three states are only the products of ignorance. Consciousness is beyond these three states and it remains as the one self, free from all states.

Consciousness is all-pervading, is the desired goal, is self-existent, and is not dependent on anything else, while the entire universe which is different from it is unreal. Consciousness remains as the one self-free from all divisions.

 Consciousness is not one; how can there be a second different from it? It has neither absoluteness nor non-absoluteness. It is neither void nor non-void since it is devoid of duality.  It cannot be described that which is the formless essence of the all the three states.  

The eternal truth within the universe (mind) and it is without the universe (mind). Direct knowledge of self can be acquired by one through the Self while realizing the Self. Self- realization is the essence of human existence. Where there is unity, one without a second; there is a world of nondual reality. The nondual truth is ultimate truth. And the ultimate truth itself is Brahman or God or Christ or Buddha.

Adyathnic Discussion - 389

Trev Light Bown: - What about Orphanage in Nepal. Is that an illusion to you. What if old Santthosh was one of the children?

Suppose if you had asked the same question to me in your  dream that:-   The Nepal, its orphanage and the children  and you, I, others and the whole universe, which contains everything within  the dream becomes unreal when waking takes place.  

The dream  is created out of single stuff. similarly the waking and dream also created out of the same stuff. That   stuff is consciousness.  The single stuff is real the three states are  mere an illusion is created out of consciousness.

Dream become unreal when waking takes place. That means the dream entity, people within the dream and the dream world becomes unreal. Same way the waking entity and people within the waking experience and the waking world becomes unreal when wisdom dawns.

A person, who stamped his foot on the ground to refute to show the world, is real, ignore that in dream he would do exactly the same--stamp his dream foot on the ground and assert it to be real. 

 “From the standpoint of the waking entity the universe is a reality from the standpoint of the soul, the innermost self, the universe is mere illusion created out of consciousness. When wisdom dawns then one realizes the whole universe is consciousness. The dualistic view is possible only in ignorance. At the dawn of Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana there is only non-dualistic view in the midst of duality because the whole universe is consciousness. Thus all the contents of the universe are also consciousness. Thus form, time and space are mere illusion created out of consciousness. If the form time and space are consciousness than the experience birth, life and death also consciousness.   

Sri Sankara and Maya or illusion:- 

  

VlSHNUVARDHANA, the King of the Hoysalas, was a Vaishnavite and was greatly incensed at the doctrine taught by Sri, Sankara that everything here below is an illusion. He wanted to teach the exponent of this doctrine a lesson. So he invited the then Sri, Sankara to his palace. That holy man went there and stoutly maintained that everything in this world was illusion. The king had arranged to let loose an infuriated elephant against Sri, Sankara. The beast rushed at Sri, Sankara who took to a precipitate flight to save himself.

'Oh, Venerable Sir,' shouted the king, 'why do you run so fast seeing that the elephant is only an illusion?'

'Oh, king,' said Sri, Sankara in his course of his flight, 'my running too is an illusion. Everything in this world is an illusion.’

Similarly, we are unaware of the fact that we are within the illusion because we exist within the waking world.  The waking experience itself is an illusion.  Due to ignorance of the innermost self, the illusion is experienced as reality.

All our love and concern to humanity is reality within the illusion. A Gnani shows his love concern to humanity like any other human being.