Adyatmic discussion on WHO AM I?+

Sri,Ramana Mahrshi ‘s  WHO AM ‘I’? 

YOUR POST IN FB:-Sage, J T Santthosh, do we really ever reach some state that is not true right now? You speak a lot about thought and understanding something with the mental tools throughout your posts. Very little about sentience or heart. It appears you are suggesting seeking or attaining something with the keen intellect of the mind as if the mind is ultimately who you are. Speaking for myself, as thoughts weaken, pondering begins and thoughtless sentient intuition is the continuum with that which is inside out and with no locality in the head. If it moves, it's the movie, not the stillness. Thoughts are moving on and in a still sentient environment. Thoughts, by themself, are insentient. They are not actually existed by themself. They appear real when seen against the moveless background which lends sentience to the illusory thought. For me, there is nothing to be realized by the mind or intellect. Truth is simply not a thought. Truth exists without thought but not the other way around. When the effort of seeking with the mind is exhausted, Truth is recognized in the forefront rather than the background. Thought cannot know Truth. Sentience, not think is the bridge or continuum that leads one to recognition. Some refer to this sentience as "heart". The "I" continues but is in subjugation to the Truth and is a benign servant. It knows it does not know. Biology remains biology. If one slams a hammer really hard on the big toe, the biological response will be similar. The biological response is natural. If biology has a sex urge, it is biology and means not a thing to the ever-present sentience which is always already pure acceptance as the "Now". There is no need to avoid biology in any form and biological behavior is not a sign of any so-called realization. There is no need to figure it out. There is no need to realize anything. That was why Ramana Maharshi shared with us the above consideration. Nothing is necessary. We are already that state shared by everyone. Much too simple for a complex mind.

My comment: - My reply is a bit lengthy because I do not like to serve half-baked stuff.  I request kindly bear with me.  Many words are needed in pursuit of truth to reduce everything to wordless existence. 

One can finds different views emerge from different people’s interactions with Sri, Raman Maharishi.  But seeker has to indulge in deeper self-search not limiting himself to WHO AM ‘I’? but one has to study the deeper interaction of Sri, Ramana Maharishi with a different type of mindset.  

I have the highest reverence for Sri, Ramana Maharishi a sage of the highest order. Until the ignorance is there is duality remains as reality.  

Right now means time. Form, time, and space are merely an illusion created out of consciousness. The form, time, and space remain as reality until ignorance remains. The insentient is merely an illusion created by the sentient, which is consciousness. 

When sentient and insentient are one is essence then there no second thing exists other than sentient consciousness.   Thus sentient, which is consciousness alone is real, and insentient which appears as universe or mind or waking is unreal.   The self is formless thus question of heart [insentient] does not arise. 

Deeper self-search revels the fact that, the Self-Inquiry prescribed by Sri, Ramana Maharishi is inadequate to reach the ultimate end. This is because he might have prescribed it to the beginners and as they go deep enough they will work it on their own. Most of his followers are of the orthodox background and they mix orthodox Advaita in Raman’s teaching. Thus it becomes a great hindrance in understanding Sri Ramana Maharishi’s teaching.  But one will find many insights which are helpful for the seekers of truth other than WHO AM ‘I’?.  

Sri, Ramana Maharishi’s teachings are very valuable for seeking the world. But serious seekers have to move much deeper and beyond Who am ‘I’? , to realize the ‘I’ itself is an illusion.

Pursuit of truth starts from inquiring “Who am ‘I’? but wisdom dawns only by knowing the mind, which is in the form of the universe, and the Self, which is in the form of consciousness. Who am ‘I’?- inquiry helps to unfold half-truth? To leave out one of these parts is to prevent the attainment of non-dual wisdom. 

"Who am I” is useful no doubt, it has a certain value in its place, and gives some knowledge of self as the Witness, but what about the witnessed? The universe still faces us. It must also be looked at. If the universe is ignored, then "Who am I” cannot give the full truth. It is the yogic enquiry; not the spiritualistic; the latter deals with the whole of life whereas the former deals with a part only.

"Who am I" is dualistic, because there, is no person in the realm of truth but only in the illusion the ‘I’ exists. . It should be "What is “I”?" To meditate on the formula “What am I?" can only yield the thought 'I'. I never cease even after long years of practice of “Who am I?” inquiry. 

The question "Who am I” is an egocentric, not a soul-centric question. It is based on the physical self. It is on a par with "What shall I be after death?" and "What shall I get if I do a good deed in this life?" It is purely ego-centric: it is an appeal to the interest in egoistic only. Only the soul-centric-minded can lift their thoughts above ego and inquire;-What is this mind? "What is the universe?" “What is the substance of the mind?

All the experiences of the three states put together make the Atman[self], not merely the ego questioning itself ''Who am I.” but becoming aware of the fact that ‘I’ or ‘I am’ itself is the cause of the ignorance because ‘I’ or ‘I am is itself is an illusion.  

Meditation, on the whole, is the best meditation: a meditation on the parts is the only step towards that. The first thing that one sees is the world. The yogis and religionist disregard this to think of self because they are unaware of the fact that self is not the ‘I’. They think ‘I’ is the true self and they continue their spiritual pursuit without verifying what ‘I’ is?. The deeper inquiry analysis reveals the fact that ‘I’ is not the self, but ‘I’ is the mind, and the mind is the universe, which appears as the whole waking experience of a dream. Thus, people who limit the ‘I’ to the physical entity or ego will never be able to reach their non-dual destination. 

Those who jump at once to Atman disregarding the world are yogis or religionists, not seekers of truth. If one doesn’t see the world, it does not mean he has wisdom. One who looks at objects alone, at the external world, he is wholly ignorant. But he who can witness his body and the world together without the physical apparatus is a Gnani.

We have to analyze both the mind and its source to get at the truth. Two things are necessary for pursuit of truth:-

 (1) Knowledge of the object [mind or universe]

(2) Knowledge of the subject [true self].

When one begins inquiry he does it to please himself, not for truth; hence he asks "Who am I?" It is an elementary stage of discipline because ego-bound but aims at loosening the ego. But one has to become aware of the fact that, the body, ego and universe appear together and they disappear together. Therefore just trying to get rid of the ego alone is an impossibility.

Those seekers who inquire “Who am I?" may succeed in finding the common factor in all ‘I’s, the I-ness but they have to come back afterward to the world or duality. Their task is incomplete. They do not know the world also is consciousness. 

"What is ‘I’? is " a spiritualistic interrogation. What is the universe? What is the mind? What is the whole? One becomes aware of the fact that ‘I’ is the mind and mind is the universe. After having examined deeply; one becomes aware of the fact that the universe is noting to with self that is the experience of birth, life and death has nothing to do with the self, which is in the form of consciousness. The self is the formless and witness of the universe, which is in the form of ‘I’, which comes and goes as waking or dream. The self is the one witness in all and is really ever free. Therefore there is a need to become aware of the fact that ‘I’ is not the self but the formless substance and witness of the ‘I’ is the true self.

When the self is not the body then the inquiry will not go further, it stops there because the self is formless, but just by knowing the self is formless the sense of ‘I’ will not vanish. The sense of ‘I’ will prevail. 

Until a sense of ‘I’ prevails, ignorance prevails. Until ignorance is there, duality is there. Until duality there, the illusion is there. Until illusion is there, the unreality will be experienced as reality. Thus one has to think beyond “Who am “I”? to realize Brahman or ultimate truth. 

People find self-inquiry is difficult and drop it without going deeper enough.

I admire David Goodman who has done deeper research on Sri, Raman Maharishi and contributed much information about Sri, Raman Maharishi, and Papaji to the seeking world.

 
In an Interview with David Godman by Rob Sacks:- 

It's fashionable nowadays to be very positive about one's spiritual experiences. People like to jump up and down and exclaim, "I'm free! I'm free!" I prefer the refreshing honesty of a devotee, Sivaprakasam Pillai, who, after fifty years of being with Sri Ramana, was still lamenting about his faults and his lack of progress. This is the person who first got Bhagavan to record his teachings on Self-inquiry in 1901. I admired his honesty, his humility, and his integrity in admitting that he still couldn't control his mind. [An Interview with David Godman by Rob Sacks for Realization.org Page 1]

SK. This proves that even after long years of practice of self-inquiry a sincere and serious devotee like Sri, Sivapraksam Pillai, who, after fifty years of being with Sri Ramana, was still lamenting about his faults and his lack of progress. Thus with the practice of Self-inquiry, it is difficult to reach the ultimate end. Thus one has to find out on his own what is blocking his realization and remove the blockades on his own.

And also in that interview

:-

RS: I often wonder whether Westerners misunderstand Ramana Maharshi. What are the most common misconceptions about his teachings?

DG: I am not sure how much understanding there is of Ramana Maharshi and his teachings in the West. He is an iconic figure to a vast number of people who are following some sort of spiritual path. I think that for many people he epitomizes all that is best in the Hindu Guru tradition but having said that, I think that very few people know much about him, and even fewer have a good grasp of his teachings. Not many people read books about him nowadays � I know that from trying to sell my own �and even fewer would profess themselves to be his devotee. I find there is very little interest in his teachings even among the people who come to visit Ramanasramam. Nowadays, many of the people who come are spiritual tourists, pilgrims who just travel round India, checking out all the various ashrams and teachers. About twenty years ago I met a foreigner here who had come to the ashram for advice on how to do self-inquiry properly. For several days he couldn't find anyone who was practicing it, even in Ramanasramam. The people he asked in the ashram office just told him to buy the ashram's publications and find out from them how to do it. Eventually, he had what he thought was a bright idea. He stood outside the door of the meditation hall at Ramanasramam, the place where Sri Ramana lived for over twenty years and asked everyone who came out how to do self-inquiry. It transpired that none of the people inside were doing self-inquiry. They came out one by one and said, "I was doing Japa," or "I was doing vipassana," or "I was doing Tibetan visualizations." 

How can there be misunderstandings among people who have never even bothered to find out the teachings in the first place, or put them into practice? [An Interview with David Godman by Rob Sacks for Realization.org Page 2]

--
SK

I have found many people who are sentimentally immersed with Sri, Ramana Maharishi’s form and personality are refused to accept anything other than their devotion towards Sri, Ramana Maharishi, therefore they hold WHO AM ‘I’ ? as a yardstick it becomes a great hindrance in understanding and assimilating His teaching. Thus blind devotion is not enough but one has to dig much deeper to reach the destination shown by the great Sage Sri, Ramana Maharishi. 

Until the seeker is serious and sincere in pursuit of truth it is difficult to reach the ultimate end. Seeker has to find what is blocking his realization even after many years of practice of self-inquiry and find out the reason for what is blocking his realization of the self.

One has to find answers for all the doubts and confusion in Sri, Ramana Maharishi's "Who Am I? inquiry

If the mind is the same as Atman, how can it vanish? How can Atman vanish? [SELF INQUIRY BOOK-Page 4 Para. 3]

Sri, Ramana Maharishi says: - "Whenever any thought leads you outward" etc. What can you be certain of when you leave the external world? And why leave the world if you say everything is Brahman? [Page 6 –middle]

The mind ceases to struggle" Yes if I commit suicide I shall also cease to struggle! How can you say the world ceases to exist if you don't look at it? [Page 6]

Who has seen the subtle mind projecting through the brain and the senses? Can you see it? Is not brain also a piece of gross matter? Then how can it come into existence after the world is created, if latter, depends on the brain? [Page 6 last Para]

How can you say the world vanishes when you are introspected? The world is still there; whether you see it or not. [Page 7 top]

The heart is an idea created by the mind, so how can the Mind emerge from it? [Page 7 Line 4]

"In deep sleep, trance, swoon, the mind turns inwards and enjoys atmasukam." Why should any man study or inquire or practice if in sleep he can easily get the Atman? If sleep gives Brahman why trouble with Vedanta? [Page 12: middle]

Page 16 middle: "If this truth is appreciated who can refrain from being good?" This is the opposite of real Vedanta. Vedanta says it is not enough to be good; one must serve the world and relieve suffering. [Page 16 middle]

Page 16 last para. Is the vanishing of ego to be the end of life? [Page 16 last para]

Only after one finds answers for all the above doubts and can clear all his doubts he will be able to move forward in his pursuit of truth.

 
EGO is the false self within the false experience. Ego, body, and the world appear together as mind or universe or waking or dream.  False indeed go but really must come one must know consciousness, is everywhere and in everything in all the three states. It is only half to say ego must vanish. This is only a step, not the highest.

One must realize everything is consciousness. Sri, Ramana Maharishi's teaching is most useful in the elementary stages in pursuit of truth, but one has to do his own homework to reach the ultimate end.

Second angle:-

Self-inquiry prescribed by Sri, Ramana Maharishi is a good tool at the beginning of the pursuit of truth. But the seeker will find it inadequate in the latter stages. However, it creates lots of doubts and confusion. The seeker has to find the answers on his own through deeper reasoning, then all his doubts and confusions will get cleared, and he will be able to move ahead in the path of inquiry, and he will be able to reach his non-dual destination.

The doubts and confusion in Self-Inquiry:-

The seeker has to overcome the doubts and confusion in later stages in self-inquiry, the seeker finds some doubts and confusion, which cannot be overcome if the inquiry is practiced on the present format prescribed in the Self-inquiry book. As per my personal research, the self-inquiry in the present format will not yield any fruits.

If the mind is the same as Atman, how can it vanish--when the mind appears and disappears as Waking or dream?

How can one be certain when one leaves the external world--when the person is within the world and the world is within the waking experience? 

Why leave the external world when everything is Brahman---when everything is Brahman why crate division between the world and its perceiver? 

How can the world alone cease to exist if one does not look at it—how can the person remain without the world and where he will exist without the world?

Who has the subtle mind projecting through the brain and senses? How can one see his subtle mind?--when the brain is also a piece of the gross matter? ---then how can the brain come into existence after the world is created if the latter depends on the brain.

The heart is an idea created by the mind, how the mind can emerge from it---when the heart disappears along with the mind and reappears along with the mind, how the mind emerges from it. 

In deep sleep, swoon, and trance, the mind turns inwards and enjoys its natural state--if so why should one inquire if one gets Ataman in sleep. With drugs, one can get sleep and peace or bliss. If sleep gives Brahman then why trouble with inquiry--better get it through sleeping pills or ganja or hemp.

There are many seekers practicing inquiry for many years and waiting for something mystical to happen, why nothing happens, and why their inquiry does not yield fruits.

Since Sri, Ramana Maharishi is not present physically to guide us, so seeker has to overcome these obstacles in the path of inquiry on his own.

In-  From “Talks with Ramana Maharshi”, Ninth Edition (1994), page 383.

Sages emphasize the path that they walked and what worked for them. The experiences of sages differ due to differences in their mental and physical structures and the social/historical context they are embedded in.  They use the vocabulary that is available to them due to their personal and cultural conditioning which fits their needs and those of their students. It is not something we need to worry about. Our focus is on understanding Bhagavan Ramana’s teachings. The Heart is very central to one aspect of Bhagavan Ramana’s teaching.

Sri Ramana did not ever say that it was “necessary” to meditate on the “Heart-center” for Self-Realization. The key word here is “necessary”. It is not “necessary” to do Japa either! But Bhagavan told Kunju Swami to do Japa as part of his spiritual routine after Kunju Swami had served him for twelve years and knew Bhagavan’s teachings inside and out. Kunju Swami had even by then glimpsed the Self in Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi!

It is clear that whatever the mode of someone’s spiritual practice (Japa, Prayer, Nada, Kundalini, Devotion to a deity, various meditations, etc.), Bhagavan encouraged it in the context of Self Inquiry and was keen to make the devotees aware of the Heart.

To think that Self-Inquiry is somehow inconsistent with another spiritual practice like focusing on the Spiritual Heart is a mistake. To suggest that Arthur Osborne did not understand Self-Inquiry because he was focusing on the Heart-center is certainly quite a leap! The fact is that Bhagavan Ramana spoke of the Heart in both physical terms and at the same time explained how it transcends the physical upon Realization!

Bhagavan Ramana did explain many times that the Spiritual Heart he spoke of was not the major psychic center (Heart Center) of Kundalini Yoga which is experienced in the middle of the chest. The Spiritual Heart is the final center after Shakti has already ascended to the Sahasrara (the brain center). The Spiritual Heart is experienced slightly to the right and slightly below the Heart Center of Kundalini Yoga.

Regarding the location of the Spiritual Heart center on the right-hand side of the human body, Sri Bhagavan said and I quote below:

“I had been saying all along that the Heart center was on the right, notwithstanding the refutation by some learned men that physiology taught them otherwise. I speak from experience. I knew it even in my home during my trances. Again during the incident related in the book “Self-Realization” I had a very clear vision and experience. All of a sudden a light came from one side erasing the world vision in its course until it spread all around when the vision of the world was completely cut out. I felt that the muscular organ on the left had stopped working; I could understand that the body was like a corpse, that the circulation of the blood had stopped and the body became blue and motionless. Vasudev Sastri embraced the body, wept over my death, but I could not speak. All the time I was feeling that the Heart center on the right was working as well as ever. This state continued for 15-20 minutes. Then suddenly something shot out from the right to the left resembling a rocket bursting in the air. The blood circulation was resumed and normal condition was restored. I then asked Vasudev Sastri to move along with me and we reached our residence.”

“The Upanishads say that 101 Nadis terminate in the Heart and 72,000 originate from them and traverse the body. The Heart is thus the center of the body. It can be a center because we have been accustomed to thinking that we remain in the body. In fact, the body and all else are in that center only.”

Final conclusion:- 

I fully agree with Swami Vivekananda who said: - “You have to grow from the inside out. None can teach you, none can make you spiritual. There is no other teacher but your own soul.”

There is no doubt Sage Ramana Maharishi is a spiritual icon of the seeking world whose teachings are valuable to the seeking world but the seeker has to dig deeper without getting immersed in glorifying the form and name of the great sage and move forward to the inner realm indicated by the great sage.  Until one overcomes the sentimentality and indulges in his own self-search it is impossible to realize the ultimate truth or Brahman. 

Buddha said --There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth: not going all the way... and not starting

I fully agree with BUDDHA who is right in saying: - Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you test and judge to be true.

Who am I? Inquiry yields only half- truth because it inquires only into the physical structure and leaves the other half, without it the truth of the whole illusion will not be revealed.  

An intense desire for truth -realization is itself the way to it. The Lord is The Self in Advaita. Therefore one need not accept anything other than the self, which is consciousness. Thus consciousness alone is the ultimate truth or Brahman that is free from falsehood.

The tradition or orthodox Advaita is nothing to do with the pursuit of truth. Thus orthodoxy has to be discarded if one is seeking Brahman or ultimate truth. 

Kabir views humanity as being caught up in illusion, searching for Ultimate Reality in all the wrong places, always seeking It outside of ourselves in various rituals, temples, forests, and mountaintops, not realizing That for which we seek is already hidden within us. 

Sage Sankara himself has warned us not to use ambiguous words and to practice semantic analysis in his book "Definition of one's own Self. [" Page 199, v.24 of "Sankara's Selected Works]

Sage Sankara founded his Advaita Vedanta either on reason independent of sruti or on sruti confirmed by reason."   Sri, Sankara's commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad, II, 1:  This [the unreality of duality] is borne out by the Srutis ... But it is possible also to show the unreality of the object world even from pure reasoning, and this second chapter is undertaken for that purpose.

Sage Sankara himself had often said that his philosophy was based on Sruti, or revealed scripture.  This may be because Sage Sankara addressed the ordinary man, who finds security in the idea of causality and thus in the idea of God—and Revelation is indispensable to prove the latter.  He believed that those of superior intelligence, have no need of this idea of divine causality, and can therefore dispense with Sruti and arrive at the truth of Non-Dualism by pure reason. 

Non-duality does not need the support of any Scripture or Revelation like the Veda. For it is based, not upon the varying theological fancies, which are as numerous as the sands of the sea, but upon reason, the common heritage of all mankind, irrespective of color or creed or clime.

Sage Sankara rightly indicated in Bhaja Govindam says: - [Jnana Viheena Sarva Mathena Bajathi na Muktim janma Shatena] - one without knowledge does not obtain liberation even in a hundred births, no matter which religious faith he follows. 

Sage Sankara indicated in Aparoksh Anuboothi 88:-  When the whole universe, movable and immovable, is known to be Atman, and thus the existence of everything else is negated, where is then any room to say that the body is Atman.

Sage Sankara rightly indicated:~ VC-63- Without causing the objective universe to vanish and without knowing the truth of the Self, how is one to achieve Liberation by the mere utterance of the word Brahman? — It would result merely in an effort of speech.

Sage Gaudapada says: - The merciful Veda teaches karma and Upasana to people of lower and middling intellect, while jnana is taught to those of higher intellect.

Sage Gaudapada’s rational exposition of Advaita: - that whatever is seen, whether external or internal, whether by the ordinary persons or yogis, is unreal. 

It is clearly indicated in Panchadashi: - The Atman is the witness-consciousness that experiences the action, the actor, and the world of separate things. It is like a light that illuminates everything in a theatre, revealing the master of ceremonies, the guests, and the dancers with complete impartiality. Even when they all depart, the light shines to reveal their absence.

Upanishads:~ SARVAM KHALVIDAM BRAHMA - all this (universe) is verily Brahman. By following back all of the relative appearances in the world, we eventually return to that from which it is all manifest – the non-dual reality [Chandogya Upanishad]. 

This Ataman cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Ataman reveals Its own form. (Katha Upanishad Ch-II -23-P-20)

Mundaka Upanishad:- This Ataman cannot be attained through study of the Vedas, nor through intelligence, nor through much learning. He who chooses Ataman—by him alone is Ataman attained. It is Ataman that reveals to the seeker Its true nature. [    3 –page-70

Mundaka Upanishad  Upanishads by Nikilanada]

The scriptures indicate that Atman is Brahman, and Brahman is the ultimate truth. Therefore the soul, which is in the form of consciousness, is the ultimate truth.  Thus to realize the ultimate truth is the prime goal.   A well-directed inquiry, analysis, and reasoning will lead one to his non-dual destination. 

Self-Realization is the direct realization of the ultimate truth or real god, in contrast with traditional paths, which are indirect. And the other paths cannot lead to the ultimate destination because they are based on the false self, which they hold as real self and false experience as reality. 

Until and unless one overcomes physical shackles it is impossible to understand and assimilate the nondual truth, which is beyond the physical existence or the universe.  Consciousness itself is lord of itself though not of the universe. And having nothing it has all.

Sage Gaudapada quotes from the Upanishads: "There's no plurality here"; "The Lord [Atman] through his powers appears to be many"; "those who are attached to creation or production or origination go to utter darkness"; "the unborn is never reborn, for who can produce him [Atman]?”

Scientific inventions say:-

Why You Are Not Your Brain, and Other Lessons from the Biology of Consciousness.

By: AlvaNoë. Hill and Wang, 2009

Alva No, a University of California, Berkeley, philosopher, and cognitive scientist, argues that after decades of concerted effort on the part of neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers "only one proposition about how the brain makes us conscious ... has emerged unchallenged: we don't have a clue." The reason we have been unable to explain the neural basis of consciousness, he says, is that it does not take place in the brain. Consciousness is not something that happens inside us but something we achieve it is more like dancing than it is like the digestive process. To understand consciousness the fact that we think and feel and that a world shows up for us we need to look at a larger system of which the brain is only one element. Consciousness requires the joint operation of the brain, body, and world. "You are not your brain. The brain, rather, is part of what you are."

If the brain [body] is not the self then what is the Self? Therefore, there is a need to understand and assimilate the knowledge of the self through deeper inquiry, analysis, and reasoning to unfold the mystery of the ‘I’.

One cannot know the truth until one knows the stuff from which the mind is created. The goal of the pursuit of truth is to realize the fact that, the true self is not physical but it is the formless soul/ spirit/consciousness.

When one puts aside the imagination and has the thinker-- what does he get with thinking—he can get only thoughts. Meditation is only an effort; it is imagination, an idea; the soul/consciousness remains the same with or without ideas. 

Some people got their opinion and understanding of “WHO AM “I’ but it is time to verify their opinion and intellectual understanding.  It is only those who base on ‘I’ or ‘I AM’ as self, argue and quarrel amongst themselves. The people who are fully aware of the fact that form, time, and space are merely an illusion created out of consciousness have no reason to quarrel because for them everything is consciousness and no second thing exists other than consciousness. 

No teaching scriptures are needed other than verifying “What is Mind?” and “What is the substance of the Mind?” and “What is the source of the mind?”, to realize the mind and its substance and its source are one in essence and that essence is formless consciousness, which is the innermost self.

The goal of spiritual practice might be is described differently in various religions and traditions.

There are diverse spiritual practices in the form of prayers, meditation, Kundalini,  yoga, tantra, glorifying the guru or god, and inquiry. etc.

 The goal of spiritual practice might be is described differently in various religions and traditions. In some religions, the goal of spiritual practice is to go to heaven and be with angels, divine beings, and God. In some spiritual traditions, the goal of spiritual practice is said to be union with God. Still, in other schools of thought, the goal of spiritual is freedom from bondage from all concepts including the notions of heaven and God.   There are many variations on these themes in the world religions.

The nature of life and existence is generally determined by one’s inherited cultural,societal  and traditional conditioning and  parental grooming  or conditioning  or through life's  circumstances.

From an Eastern meditative perspective, anything that allows the mind to be quiet and content and peaceful in awareness is spiritual practice. The schools of yoga in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism emphasize the path of nonviolence in their spiritual practice. The goal of spiritual practice in these traditions is Moksha or Nirvana. Moksha or Nirvana imply release from all bondage and liberation from the cycle of birth  and death.

The non-religious and non-yogic   Advaitic or non-dulistic  perspective emphasizes Self-knowledge as the only means to overcome the idea that self is separate from God or the Universe.  According to this philosophy, when the Self is realized, the false cognition that the world is different from the Self simply vanishes.

There is only consciousness, which is the true self; however when the consciousness is conceptualizes with different concepts and ideas, so it becomes difficult to understand and assimilate the non-dual truth. Therefore there is no attainment of goal outside of consciousness which is the formless substance and witness of the three states.   Consciousness is the center of the physical existence or mind, and it pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states.  Deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning revels the fact that, consciousness is the true self.  

Holding on to the awareness that the consciousness is the real Self is the goal. The consciousness is already there. The veil of ignorance has to be lifted to overcome the illusion. Therefore Self-Knowledge is the only tool to know and realize the fact that, the veil mere mirage.

One can find answers to all questions if one first realizes the fact that, the self is not physical body but the self is that, which witnesses the physical body and the universe together, without the physical apparatus. 

The ultimate answer to all the questions comes only after one realizes the self is not physical but self is consciousness.  One will be able to understand and assimilate the non dual truth only after he becomes aware of the fact that, the consciousness is the true self. Therefore, there is a necessary to realize the fact that, “consciousness” is the true self, in order to realize, the body and the universe are mere mirage created out of consciousness. Therefore the whole experience of diversity is nothing but consciousness. Thus consciousness is second to none.   Therefore, to understand and assimilate and realize the consciousness is ultimate truth nothing else will help other then the knowledge of the true self. 

Non-duality is not a theory; it is the ultimate truth that transcends all theories.

The waking or dream is state of ignorance. When one becomes fully convinced of the fact that, the consciousness is the true self than the ignorance vanishes and reality revels itself. So, it is only in this realm of the ignorance the universe exists as reality.

When this realm of ignorance itself is known to be false, than the body, ego, world , thoughts, feeling, perception are also false.

The Only Truth is non-duality, which is the true nature of the soul or consciousness, which is the innermost self. Consciousness alone is real because form,time and space are mere mirage created out of consciousness. There is no second thing exists other than consciousness. Thus consciousness is ultimate truth or Brahman.

Spiritual maturity is required for non-dual wisdom to arise. Seeker will be able to understand, assimilate as he moves on deeper self-search.  Through perfect understanding, and assimilation the non-dual wisdom dawns.

The yardstick is getting rid of ignorance by knowing and realizing the formless soul or  consciousness as innermost  self.  The truth is known only as a proof to the person concerned.  For others it is only doubt.  Ignorance, Knowledge, is known directly for the person concerned.  If ignorance has vanished, then there is non-dual self-awareness.

When the seeking mind realizes the ultimate reality, it has abided into the consciousness(soul), which is its true nature.

By realizing the three states are mere mirage created out of consciousness; one is free from the illusory experience of  birth, life, death and the world. In the realm of ultimate reality   has no seed of ignorance thus there is no duality.

  For when a unreal superimposed on a real  has merged in the real on the discrimination of the real  and the unreal , it does not appear again to those people, just as before, from the impressions of past persisting in the intellect. 

Wisdom destroys ignorance from its very root.   However, there will be the 'impressions' of the past perception of duality even after realization after truth.

This is required for the physical apparatus to continue in the   world within the illusion.  Impressions require a locus and thus the physical apparatus is continuing.  The body is required to support the world and the body cannot exist without the world, because the body and the world re one in essence. 

When soul-centric reasoning  is developed and one is able to view and judge the worldview on the base of  soul or  consciousness, the innermost  self, then he has the yardstick to discriminate between the real and unreal. The reason based on consciousness as self once   gained will not go away despite the physical conditioning persisting. 

 Deliberate suppression indicates identity with the physical entity.  If one suppresses his conditioned attributes than that suppressed conditioned attributes   would definitely come out in one way or the other. 

Even though the truth is realized, even though the ignorance has been dispelled, the three states will continue to appear to him and he will be interacting and reacting through  the ego or waking entity , which will be driven  or  supported by the physical conditioning.  A Gnani is fully aware of the fact that his body, his ego and his experience of the world are mere mirage created out of consciousness. 

Non-duality is not a theory; it is the Absolute Truth.  One has to view the worldview on the standpoint point of consciousness as self, then there no conflict.

Deeper self-search leads to the non-dual self-awareness.  Consciousness exists always and without   undergoing any change. The three states are none other than the consciousness, because their formless substance and witness is consciousness. One has to understand the difference between the states of ignorance and state of reality. 

    

There is the distinction between states of ignorance and state of reality.  The formless witness, which is consciousness, as differentiated from the state of ignorance.    

For the realization of the true of the Self does not tolerate any distinction. The consciousness  is second to none. It is the formless substance and witness of ignorance, which appears as mind, when the ignorance vanishes through wisdom it alone, as non-dual existence.  There is no scriptural Authority nor scriptural teaching, no pupil, nor training. There is neither YOU nor I nor the Others nor this universe.

The scriptures and teachings belong to the realm of ignorance. They do not have a distinct existence in the ultimate truth.  All scriptures, including those directed at teaching the means for liberation belong to the realm of ignorance.

Any formulation being illusory because it is object of cognition external to consciousness  - have been generated by the very mirage ,  which gives rise to the illusion of universe  of wonderful variety in all animated and un-animated  objects.

 The mind is   an illusion. The word 'non-duality ' itself is only relative.  The word is used only to distinguish this from concepts like 'duality '.  A realized one will not see any object [three states] as absolutely real.  He might use one or the other or a combination of several to help others who might seek his help.  All thoughts and words lose their identity in the ultimate truth that is no thoughts or words by itself.

Non-duality is the ultimate truth and it is not a theory.  Ultimate truth is ever the Truth, Reality, never to be negated, never negatable.

The formless ‘witness’, is consciousness never, fades, since it is indestructible. The consciousness is, one without a second.  Consciousness, which is Infinite, is ultimate truth.  Consciousness is the formless substance and witness of the illusion, which is in the form of mind. Consciousness is the true self.  Consciousness never goes out of existence.

Non-duality is not a theory; it is the ultimate truth that transcends all theories.  It is only to guide the seekers towards the ultimate Truth, the words are used. Seekers goal should be to realize the ultimate truth or Brahman.   

The truth is easier to realze without accumulated baggage.

The truth is easier  to realize without accumulated baggage. Nothing is needed other than investigating "What is mind?" "What is the substance of the mind?" and "What is the source of the mind?' But people want to argue more than Self-search . The judgment based on their the yardstick of accumulated knowledge without verification is greatest road block in pursuit of truth. there is no need for interaction if one is soul-centric. ego-centric interaction leads to argument. path of truth is not path of argument but path of verification.

Arguments leads nowhere but deeper self-search takes one to the ultimate end. Inner urge to know the truth and patience and humility are must in pursuit of truth. One must have the intense urge to know the truth and ready to drop all the accumulated baggage than only it is possible to assimilate and realize the non-dual truth.

The study of the Scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known.

The Scriptures and bookish knowledge consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely causes the mind to ramble. Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of the Self.

The scriptures are for ignorant masses, who wholly accept the material world as it presents itself. Non-dual wisdom is for those who have begun to realize that things are not what they seem.

Even the Upanishads are self-contradictory. Pundits and scholars give conflicting interpretations of them. When one uses his own Common-sense he becomes aware that, the final authority therefore is using his own reason. one should apply his reason to the scriptures before accepting them as trut

That which is unreal, that is duality, cannot contradict truth, non-duality.  It cannot be counted as an adversary of non-duality.  The illusion cannot, 'oppose' the substratum, reality.  It can at best lead to the mistaking of the substratum.  Perfect understanding is the only way to overcome the ignorance.

Non-duality is the ultimate undeniable Truth.  Realization presupposes a state where there is ignorance about that Truth.  That such is not the reality is evidenced by the possibility of transcending the ignorance.  When this is achieved it would be clear, that all the three states are mere mirage created out of consciousness. The one which is aware of these three states, which comes and goes is neither waking entity nor dream entity.  It is the consciousness, which is within the three states and also it is without the three states.

Self- Knowledge  or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is only is true knowledge not the absence of duality.  Self -Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana cannot destroy the world but it eliminates the ignorance and exposes the unreal nature of the mind or universe.

  Non dual wisdom requires investigate in to the mind, analyzing the mind, which appears as universe, realizing the fact that, the mind rises and subsides from formless source, which is soul or consciousness.  The consciousness is the innermost  self. Therefore, one has to learn to view and  judge the truth from the standpoint of the source from where the mind rises and subsides, not from the standpoint of the waking entity, which is the false self within the false experience. 

As one gets convinced, certain, of the truth that the world is nothing but consciousness, and there is no second thing, then he get conviction that, all the three states to be consciousness in the midst of duality.  Realizing the truth in the midst of duality is wisdom.

Academic qualification is not required to acquire Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.

In most of the spiritual group or discussion forums, there are no discussions on the subject matter, but most of the people indulge in making point or getting their point across to be heard and making observations from their own limited viewpoint from their accumulated knowledge based on the false self. 

Many people lecture consisting of ornamental of words, the skill in expounding their accumulated egocentric knowledge, they try to snub others and try to exhibit their intellectuality ,  these merely bring on a little personal enjoyment to them. But all this intellectual wealth is no good are not the means for Self-Realization. 

Academic qualification is not required   to acquire Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. Scriptural mastery is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known.

Holy Books consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely causes the mind to ramble. Hence seeker of truth should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of the Self.

By getting rid of Ignorance one can acquire Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.   But he has got none but himself to remove his ignorance. 

One may find solution for his worldly problems by others, but Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana has to be acquired none but one's own self. 

Sri, Sankara says in VivekaChudamani   :- 

54. The true nature of things is to be known personally, through the eye of clear illumination, and not through a sage: what the moon exactly is, is to be known with one's own eyes; can others make him know it? 

55. Who but one's own self can get rid of the bondage caused by the fetters of Ignorance, desire, action and the like, aye even in a hundred crore of cycles ? 

405. The Shrutis themselves declare that this dualistic universe is but a delusion from the standpoint of Absolute Truth. This is also experienced in the state of dreamless sleep. 

407. This apparent universe has its root in the mind, and never persists after the mind is annihilated. Therefore dissolve the mind by concentrating it on the Supreme Self, which is thy inmost Essence. 

First the seeker has to realize his inherited religious conditioning [samskaras] is greatest obstacle in self-realization. 

According to Advaita Vedanta, the Veda addresses itself to two kinds of audiences - the ordinary ones who desire the transitory heaven and other pleasures obtained as a result of ritual sacrifices, and the more advanced seeker who seeks to know Brahman. Thus, the purva mimam.sa, with its emphasis on the karma kanda of the Vedas, is meant for the first audience, to help lead its followers along the way. However, the Vedanta, with its emphasis on the jnana kanda, is meant for those who wish to go beyond such transient pleasures. 

Thus the religious Advaita based on the punditry is for the ordinary ones who desire the transitory heaven and other pleasures obtained as a result of ritual sacrifices. Advanced seeker who are capable of inquiring into their own existence to know and realize the ultimate truth, which is Brahman. 

Seeker of truth has to take the direct path and avoid losing precious time and effort loosing himself in philosophical studies and glorifying gurus and gods.  

Brahman is considered the all-pervading consciousness, which is the basis of all the animate and inanimate entities and material. (brahmano hi pratisthaham, Bhagavad Gita 14.27)

Sri, Sankara’s notion of Maya, the cosmic illusion, which must be transcended in order to realize the truth of Brahman, which means ultimate truth.

 If Brahman is considered the all-pervading consciousness then, it is necessary to realize, the consciousness as self, which pervades all the three states, to realize the fact that, there is no second thing exists other the consciousness. Thus, consciousness (Atman) is ultimate truth (Brahman). 

The goal is to realize Atman (soul or consciousness). If Atman(soul or consciousness) is nothing but Brahman and by realizing Atman (soul or consciousness) as Brahman or ultimate truth is truth realization or Self-Realization , then there is no need to follow religion, study scriptures or glorifying gods or gurus and follow the path of doubts and confusion by losing oneself in the labyrinths of philosophy, when there is an easier path. By mentally tracing the source of the mind from where it rises and subsides one becomes aware of the fallacy of the mind, which rises as waking or dream and subsides as deep sleep. The mind raises form consciousness and subsides as consciousness.

Brahmin is the one who has realized the Brahman or ultimate truth is Gnani . A Gnani   helps fellow seekers towards inner path. The one who knows Brahman knows his body and his experience of the world are mere illusion and also he knows his body and his experience of the world are also as Atman (soul or consciousness),  which is Brahman. Thus, the priest craft which are crafted on the body based theories will lead one to hallucinated moksha. But real moksha or freedom is possible only through non dual wisdom. 

Thus it is necessary to follow the path of Brahman not the path of the priest- craft. Only by dropping all the accumulated priest crafted baggage, one has to move forward to reach the Advaitic or  non-dual destination in lesser time and effort.

Consciousness is not different from mind or life. The substance and witness of the mind/life is consciousness.  The consciousness is the true self and when one limits the consciousness to the physical entity, it becomes ego and ego is the cause of experiencing the duality as reality. Ego is the cause of the ignorance of formless non-dual nature of the consciousness.  Prior to experience of duality [mind], there is only consciousness. The ego is part of the experience of duality.  The consciousness can remain with or without the experience of duality but ego ceases to exist without the experience of duality or universe or mind. The mind is fully dependent on consciousness, whereas the consciousness is independent.   Therefore there is need to understand what is mind and what is substance of the mind in order to assimilate the Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana.