Sunday, April 21, 2013

Adyathmic Discussion --410 (Sage Sri,Sankara's Advaita)***



Trev Light Bown : -  Can you post some reading by Sankara? 

SK: - Without Sage, Sri, Sankara there is no Advaita (non-duality). Sage Sri,  Sankara's rational   Advaita  is the greatest gift to the humanity.   Since it was mixed up with orthodoxy there is a lot of confusion. I am highlighting all the obstacles, which is blocking one from realizing the ultimate truth or Brahman. There are so many non-dualistic masters of the east and also from the west   who expound Advaitic or non-dualistic knowledge but none of them are helpful to reach the ultimate end. 

Swami Vivekananda aptly described Sankara’s Advaita as the fairest flower of philosophy that any country in any age has produced. 

Most of the pundits are egoic and they try to snub others who question them.  They think they are unquestionable authority.  They quote the citation from the scripture as proof without verifying the validity.  All punditry is a great obstacle in realizing the Advaitic truth expounded by the Sri, Sankara and Sage Sri, Gaudapada. 
 
One finds lots of differences between Advaita preaching and practice. There is a need to bifurcate religion, the concept of god and scriptures from Advaitic philosophy to assimilate the essence of Advaita.    
Sri, Sankara says in Brahma Sutras: that Brahman is the cause of the world, whereas in Mandukya he denies it. This is because he says that at the lower stage of understanding, the former teaching must be given, for people will get frightened as they cannot understand how the world can be without a cause, but to those in a higher stage, the truth of non-causality can be revealed.

Sage Sri, Sankara himself has warned us not to use ambiguous words, and to practice semantic analysis in his book "Definition of one's own Self. (" Page 199, v. 24 of "Sankara's Selected Works)

Sri, Sankara founded his Advaita Vedanta either on reason independent of sruti or on sruti confirmed by reason."   Sri, Sankara's commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad, II, 1:  This (the unreality of duality) is borne out by the Srutis ... But it is possible also to show the unreality of the object world even from pure reasoning, and this second chapter is undertaken for that purpose.

 Sri, Sankara himself had often said that his philosophy was based on Sruti, or revealed scripture.  This may be because Sri, Sankara addressed the ordinary man, who finds security in the idea of causality and thus with the idea of God—and Revelation is indispensable to prove the latter.  He believed that those of superior intelligence, have no need of this idea of divine causality, and can therefore dispense with Sruti and arrive at the truth of Non-Dualism by pure reason. 

When Sri, Sankara says clearly, the universe is not real. He says that Brahman and Atman are one. The ultimate and the Absolute Truth is the Self, which is one though appearing as many different individuals. The individual has no reality. Only the Self is Real; the rest, mental and physical are but passing appearances, then it indicates the form (waking/duality/mind) is unreal the formless is real (soul/spirit/self/FW).  Therefore, only Atman is real because there is no second thing other than Atman.

When sage Sri, Sankara says: world is unreal. He never said body is unreal. He would have said only birth and death is   unreal but he did not say that, he said the world is unreal.   He meant   the world including the body, because the body and the world appear together and disappear together (waking/dream).  Then we have to think, what remain without the body and the world as reality. How can the birth, life, death, rebirth, and reincarnation, which take place in an unreal world (waking/dream), can be true.   The one, which is aware of the birth, life death, rebirth and reincarnation (illusion/unreal), is formless reality, which is the true self/true identity.  The formless self is your true identity, which is birthless and deathless but it is the witness of the birth, life and death and rebirth (illusion/unreal).

On the standpoint of identity the birth, life, death, rebirth and reincarnation theory is part of the illusion.  The body cannot reincarnate, the body and the world are created out of the same formless stuff. Until one views and judges on the base of flesh, bone and blood (five elements), he will not be able to grasp the non-dualistic or Advaitic  truth.  Thus, one must know on what standpoint we are not born and we do not die thoroughly, just by hearsay views, it will not lead anyone to the non-dual destination.

The  Seeker has to learn to view and judge on the standpoint of Formless witness (or soul or consciousness). Then he will be never having any confusion.  When one thinks deeply then only the inner revelation starts and start burning the dross (confusion/doubts). A well-directed inquiry and sound reasoning will lead one towards non-dual destination and it will start yielding fruit and start revealing, when he starts thinking very deeply.  This is the inner process every serious seeker experiences.  The inner dialogue will start and one will start getting answers from the inner core of his existence, and he becomes aware of the fact of what is real and what is unreal and he will be able to mentally reject the unreal nature of the self in the midst of duality. 

He also clearly mentions that:

The path of religion, theory of karma, the path of yoga and the path of wisdom were intended for different classes of people. The wisdom is for the advanced seekers of truth. It deals with the nature of the ultimate Truth and Reality. It is meant for superior aspirants who have an inner urge to know the truth and it is not for those who are immersed in earthly desires.

Thus we have to know the fact that the Buddha, Goudpada and Sri, Sankara are not only reformers but also the greatest scientists. From there original thesis has been lost in the labyrinths of philosophy and mutilated by pundits and orthodoxy, it becomes very difficult to understand and assimilate the wisdom expounded by the great masters. In addition, the conservativeness of the orthodox scholars will not allow any research other than playing with the words, which suits the mass mind sets, because of their egocentric outlook.
Sage Sri, Sankara says in Vivekachudamani:- 56. Neither by Yoga, nor by Sankhya, nor by work, nor by learning, but by the realization of one's identity with Brahman is Liberation possible, and by no other means.

58. Loud speech consisting of a shower of words, the skill in expounding the Scriptures, and likewise erudition - these merely bring on a little personal enjoyment to the scholar, but are no good for Liberation.

59. The study of the Scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known.

60. The Scriptures consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely causes the mind to ramble. Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of the Self.

61. For one who has been bitten by the serpent of Ignorance, the only remedy is the knowledge of Brahman. Of what avail are the Vedas and (other) Scriptures, Mantras (sacred formulae) and medicines to such a one?

62. A disease does not leave off if one simply utters the name of the medicine, without taking it; (similarly) without direct realization one cannot be liberated by the mere utterance of the word Brahman.

63. Without causing the objective universe to vanish and without knowing the truth of the Self, how is one to achieve Liberation by the mere utterance of the word Brahman ? — It would result merely in an effort of speech.

64. Without killing one’s enemies, and possessing oneself of the splendor of the entire surrounding region, one cannot claim to be an emperor by merely saying, ‘I am an emperor’.

65. As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a knower of Brahman, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted arguments.

66. Therefore the wise should, as in the case of disease and the like, personally strive by all the means in their power to be free from the bondage of repeated births and deaths.

67. The question that thou hast asked today is excellent, approved by those versed in the Scriptures, aphoristic, pregnant with meaning and fit to be known by the seekers after Liberation.

People who are yearning for spiritual truth will not find it through intellectualism. Intellectual truth is individual truth. Love implies duality and love is individual feelings within the falsehood. Love is necessary and valuable in the States of ignorance but it is not the means to acquire wisdom.  Love is a religious tool to lead life in practical world.  And Religious truth is individual truth and it is not a universal truth because the religion is based on individuality. 

The karma theory is reality only for those who believe their present physical identity (ego) as real, and world as reality. When the Sri, Sankara declares the world itself is an illusion, and Brahman is real, then what value the karma theory has when the world is an illusion, because man is part and parcel of the illusory world. Therefore, one has to view and judge the three states on the standpoint of the formless soul, the innermost self in order to overcome the duality, which he is experiencing it as reality.  The individuality is the reality within the illusory world. Therefore, all the theories created within the illusion on the base of false entity, within the false experience, has to be the part and parcel of the illusion.  Thus it is necessary to realize the fact that Atman is the true self and all else is illusion, to overcome the illusory concept of the cycle of birth, life and death.  Thus to understand and assimilate Sri, Sankara’s Advaitic truth, the seeker has to do his own homework soulcentric reasoning without mixing religion, scriptures, the theories, concept of god and yoga.

Sage  Sri Sankara  says in Aparokshanubhuti:-   88. When the whole universe, movable and immovable, is known to be Atman, and thus the existence of everything else is negated, where is then any room to say that the body is Atman?

   89. O enlightened one, pass your time always contemplating on Atman while you are experiencing all the results of Prarabdha; for it ill becomes you to feel distressed.

   90. The theory one hears of from the scripture, that Prarabdha does not lose its hold upon one even after the origination of the knowledge of Atman, is now being refuted.

   91. After the origination of the knowledge of Reality, Prarabdha verily ceases to exist, inasmuch as the body and the like become non-existent; just as a dream does not exist in waking.

   92. That Karma which is done in a previous life is known as Prarabdha (which produces the present life). But such Karma cannot take the place of Prarabdha (for a man of knowledge), as he has no other birth (being free from ego).

   93. Just as the body in a dream is superimposed (and therefore illusory), so is also this body. How could there be any birth of the superimposed (body), and in the absence of birth (of the body) where is the room for that (i.e., Prarabdha) at all ?

   94. The Vedanta texts declare ignorance to be verily the material (cause) of the phenomenal world just as earth is of a jar. That (ignorance) being destroyed, where can the universe subsist ?

   95. Just as a person out of confusion perceives only the snake leaving aside the rope, so does an ignorant person see only the phenomenal world without knowing the reality?


   96. The real nature of the rope being known, the appearance of the snake no longer persists; so the substratum being known, the phenomenal world disappears completely.

   97. The body also being within the phenomenal world (and therefore unreal), how could Prarabdha exist ? It is, therefore, for the understanding of the ignorant alone that the Shruti speaks of Prarabdha.

   98. “And all the actions of a man perish when he realizes that (Atman) which is both the higher and the lower”. Here the clear use of the plural by the Shruti is to negate Prarabdha as well.

   99. If the ignorant still arbitrarily maintain this, they will not only involve themselves into two absurdities but will also run the risk of forgoing the Vedantic conclusion. So one should accept those Shrutis alone from which proceeds true knowledge.

The above proves that the karma is reality only on the base of false self, where one thinks body and the universes as reality. When one becomes aware of the fact that, the true self is formless soul, then the karma becomes part and parcel of illusion.   My point is that, if one accepts the karma theory as reality, he will never be able to come out of the ignorance. And ignorance makes him believe the cycle of birth, life and death as reality.  Thus the freedom which one is seeking will remain distant dream. For the one who accepts the birth life and death as reality, Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is impossible.

Sage Sri Sankara endeavored towards establishing Vedic religion overthrowing Buddhism. But even he was not able to avoid the influence of Buddhism. The influence of the revolutionary atmosphere of Buddhism has reappeared in the Advaita of Sage Sri, Sankara. His inability to revive Vedic religion that flourished before the Buddhist revolution in its pure form is discernible
.
Many thinkers since his time have said about sage Sri Sankara that he made use of many important tenets of Buddhism and presented to the people the very Buddhism in the guise of Vedic religion. Though the Vedic religion represented by Sri Sage Sankara is like a conglomeration of many things he deserves the credit of having turned the Hindu mind which was once averse to Vedas -the root of Hinduism, towards the Vedas once again. For this the followers of Vedic religion should be grateful to Sage Sri Sankara.

The brilliance shown by Sage Sri Sankara, a man of wonderful genius, a matchless speaker and an extra-ordinary dialectician is really a great spectacle in history.

Adyathmic Discussion- 412***




TG :-  I cannot reject this earthly life until I feel I have finished what I have come here to do.  For me, that seems to be the raising of many children............. .and their children.... ......... ...to a bit beyond adulthood, which probably means that I need to live to be at least 100 years old on earth.  Not joking, here.  It seems that as they get old enough to fend for themselves, they need more help than ever to realize their full potential.  I'm sure that after I die, I will remain behind in the astral to guide and protect them still.


SK: One need not renounce the worldly life. There is no to give up worldly life to find the truth. But in this modern age all these renunciation and deserting the family is not essential. One need not go anywhere and spend his fortune in the search of truth. the path of wisdom is inner(mental)  journey. By renouncing the worldly life and taking sanyasa makes one more egocentric. egocentricty is is gretest obstical in realzaing the nondualistic or Advaitic truth.  

The truth lies within the human experience (mind) as its invisible substance and witness. Since people think the mind is within the body everyone is in confusion. Therefore it is necessary to know, whether the mind is in the body or and world are within the mind.

The quest gets over only when knows what is mind. Once one knows the truth the restless mind gets the stillness and one gets the repose of the deep sleep in the midst of the experience of diversity or worldly life. Everyone has to follow their chosen path and remain happy in whatever he/she is interested in this experience of duality (mind). 


Adyatmic discussion -- 409***






P: The question is here is to understand the fact that, the pain and pleasure are created (duality) out of single stuff. -- fine but we are not questioning that.

Santtosh,
As I said I have not come across a single person in my life who is indifferent to the pleasure / pain principle.

I would consider such a person abnormal, cold , psychic.

Are you not effected by the pleasure / pain principle ?

About Ramana Maharishi or whoever; many things are exaggerated by people; so let us not believe everything.

Every human being is exactly like you and me because we share the same consciousness
 
All the pretense of these so called 'god men' posing as supermen, I find it very hard to believe.

SK: -  The pleasure and pain are individual experiences happening within the waking experience. Therefore their reality is limited to the waking experience because the waking experience itself is an illusion. Until one becomes aware of the fact that: how the waking experience is an illusion, he is bound to experience the duality as reality. The individuality and individual experiences happening with in the waking experience, is nothing to do with the formless Soul, which is the witness of the three states. 

 The pleasure and pain of the dream become unreal when the waking takes place. Same way for a Gnani the waking experience becomes mere an object of experience because he is soul-centric. Most of the god men are pretending to be Gnani but they are egocentric. When one becomes soul-centric for his body and the world are also consciousness.   Because people think the body is born, lives and dies they feel the pleasure and pain as reality. But it is not body alone that dies, the world also dies together, because they appeared together and they disappear together as deep sleep or death.   The one which is aware of the appearance disappearance of the three states is birth- less and deathless, which our dear friend James called it as no one.
 
The no one is the soul, which Buddhist called as nothingness or emptiness and Sage  Sri, Sankara called it as Brahman, Meher Baba called it as I AM GOD STATE, and Christens called it Christ consciousness. .  When one consciously becomes aware of the no one is the true self, then there is no physical apparatus and world to experience, because a Gnani is aware his body and the world are also consciousness.   To get this conviction one has to understood the fact that, the birth, life, death and the world are a mere mirage created out of consciousness. Whatever prevails without the mirage is ultimate truth, which is consciousness.

If the self is formless   then diversity is mere illusion. One has  to know this fact intellectually first, then gradually as conviction becomes firm then  he becomes soul-centric and he sees the sameness in everything and the mind reaches the stillness and he  becomes aware of the fact that,  the soul itself is the ultimate truth.   

We all including the world exist in waking or dream. We experience different experiences as individuals. When we consider we are individual separate from the world, we will think whatever is happening within the waking experience as reality, because we are judging the truth on the waking entity, which is erroneous. The waking entity is limited to the waking experience alone. We have to learn to judge truth on the base of the formless knower of the three states.    Therefore, the individuality and individual experience are nothing to do with the self, which is formless.  Until one includes the world in his realization to grasp the ultimate truth is an impossibility. 

We have to realize Individual experience of birth, life and death is nothing to do with the soul, the innermost   self which is the soul, because the soul is our eternal identity. On the base of soul as self there is neither witness nor witnessed, there is only oneness.  

There is no need to believe any sages in the past,  they are not yard stick they are mere signpost. The seeker has to do his own investigation and realize what is truth and what is not truth