Friday, July 22, 2011

Advaitic or Nondual Wisdom will not rise from intellectual spoon feeding but it arises only from deeper self-search



Pursuit of truth is not pursuit of argument.  Until one makes his accepted truth as his yardstick without verification, he will never will be able to cross the threshold of duality because his understanding is  based on the ego, is not matured enough to grasp the non- dualistic truth, which is prior to his physical existence or mind, which is in the form of universe.

The guru is not needed in pursuit of truth because the truth has to be ascertained by seeker himself. Advaitic or Non-dual Wisdom will not rise from intellectual spoon feeding but it arises only from deeper self-search to the sincere and serious seeker who has an intense urge to know the ultimate truth or Brahman.    

Persons who are stuck with branded masters and guru and takes their guru’s word as final without verifying the validity of their Guru’s teaching.  They are stuck with their egocentric intellectuality, which is the greatest hindrance in realizing the ultimate truth.  Nothing has to be accepted truth without verification. 

The people who is stuck with path of love and thinks love is the means and go out dancing and have fun. Love is essential in practical life within the practical world but practical life within the practical world itself is an illusion. There is no need to renounce practical life within the practical world one can love the whole humanity and have fun and dance like anyone else.  But whoever has inner urge  without disturbing his practical life can continue in his inner journey.    Path of love is path of individuality.  The individuality is nothing to do with the ‘Self’, which is not an individual because it is formless and non-dual. 

Until one thinks ‘I’ or ‘I AM’ as self, their understanding is egocentric. The egocentric understanding is not realization of ultimate truth or Brahman.  They think by observing silence within the duality they pretend to show they are in Brahmic bliss. They fail to realize the fact that, truth is not an individual experience but it is the basis of all that exist in the form of duality.

 The truth is hidden within the duality but it is without the duality. Until one considers self is an individual he will remain in the realm of intellectuality. Intellectuality belongs to individuality and individuality is falsehood from ultimate standpoint.   Thus it is no use arguing with such mind set who are not ready and receptive to grasp and realize non-dual truth because they are stuck with their accepted truth as ultimate truth without verifying the facts and remain like stagnant water in dirty pond. The guidance comes from any form when the seeker is ready and receptive to take the mental [inner] journey.  The people who are stuck with ‘I’ or ‘I AM’ as self  are eaten only the half cooked food are satisfied  with half-knowledge  and they will not be able to grasp  digest the fullness or oneness of the self or Brahman because their conviction about it is deep rooted .  Thus they remain in ignorance thinking they know everything without fully knowing what is what.  

 Some think using the language without the words they will attain the state of oneness by telling others not use words with words.   The oneness does not arise by observing silence or without using language without words or trying to be in the thoughtlessness. The deep sleep is the   state of thoughtlessness, silence, wordlessness, silence but it is not considered as state of oneness because any one can take a sleeping pill and will be able to get the state of oneness. Thus trying to imitate the state of oneness in duality by observing silence, thoughtlessness, wordlessness or by yogic Samadhi or surrendering to the physical guru the wisdom will not dawn. Without wisdom the ignorance will not vanish. Thus getting rid of the ignorance through wisdom is the only way to realize the ultimate truth or Brahman.    

If one has understood what ‘truth ‘really is “than there is no necessity to know ‘Who am I? or ‘I am that’.   ‘WHO AM I?’ or ‘I AM THAT’ reveal only half-truth because they are limited to individuality and reveals only the unreal nature of the ego.   Ego is individuality whereas the self is not an individual because self is formless consciousness.  Thus the journey is incomplete.  Seeker has to go much deeper know the full truth about the ‘self ‘which is beyond form, time and space. 

The bookish knowledge is not wisdom. The knowledge accumulated from intellectual spoon feeding from the intellectual wise men is not wisdom.  The persons who are propagating only half-truth as absolute truth are playing with feelings of the seeker with ornamental words.   The people who are stuck with half-truth think they have already realized and think that they are realized truth and they try to snub others and expect to follow their own terms without realizing they have not yet completed the journey.

 People talk of the love, and humanity in Atmic or non-dualistic discussion, which is not the subject matter of pursuit of truth.

 The individual life, love and humanity are nothing to do with pursuit of truth because self is neither the waking entity nor the dream entity because it is formless.  

If one has understood 'I’ or ‘I AM ‘is not the self and what really is ‘I’ or ‘I AM’, there is no necessity for pursuit of truth.  When in deeper self-search one becomes aware neither the body nor the ‘I’ is self than one has to base the self on whatever prevails without the body and without the ‘I’. Passing the opinion   and judgment even after knowing the self is not ‘I’, itself is erroneous.  Thus holding the ‘I’ as self and passing judgment and opinion based on the ‘I’ or ‘I AM’ is only a hallucinated judgment based on the false self. This because they have taken the false self as real self and false experience as real experience.    

There is no doubt many masters have given valuable contribution to seeking world but none of them take one to the ultimate end .  Thus seeker has to verify on his own remove the entire obstacle, which is blocking his realization on his own.  There is no need to criticize any teacher or Guru and waste time instead seeker has to utilize the same time  to acquire self-knowledge through deeper self-search.  

Truth means certainty. If there is any uncertainty it is not truth. It does not deal with imaginations. People do not have the scientific attitude because they take things as presented to them. They have rather the emotional and sentimental attitude. The correct attitude is to verify all the facts, to see a problem in them, something to investigate and inquire into them.

Truth must be verifiable; unless it is verifiable it is of no value.  Those who lack the capacity to doubt are not fit for pursuit of truth.

Analogical, inductive and deductive reasoning are good only within the physical existence; none are absolutely and universally infallible because they are based on the physical self.

The religion is based on the blind belief. But in pursuit of truth the Doubt is the main ingredient.

 Most people have the desire to know the truth but the capacity to understand and assimilate it is limited. The result is that people resolve the conflict by jumping to the first and simplest and easiest conclusion as the correct one, and smugly but unjustifiably thinking “I know”: Thus they commit the fallacy of primitivity.

The seeker needs proof   to accept anything as truth.  Every guru intellectuals, pundit or yogi statements have to be verified before accepting them as ultimate truth or Brahman. Their claims have to be verified before accepting them as truth.

Ultimate truth or Brahman cannot be known by intuition but it can be grasped from the reason based on the true self. Therefore, there is a need to know first the self is not physical but the formless consciousness. Then start reasoning on the base of the formless consciousness, all the clouds and confusion starts clearing on its own and finally one  will have no confusion left to say the illusion as whole is spirit.

One knows everything within the waking experience is consciousness because the waking experience itself is mere mirage created out of consciousness. The physical apparatus is absent in deep sleep, so one cannot know anything by intuition, because there is no duality in deep sleep. This proves that the duality is present only in waking or dream. And also   it proves that if there be such a faculty as intuition it must be limited to the physical self.

In Panchadashi:-  Atman The is the witness-consciousness that experiences the action, the actor, and the world of separate things. It is like a light that illuminates everything in a theatre, revealing the master of ceremonies, the guests, and the dancers with complete impartiality. Even when they all depart, the light shines to reveal their absence.


 People speak the supra-mental consciousness, who or what is there, to discover it because the mind is not there? It is an absurd statement.

The psychological writings of mystics and the pseudo-scientific explanations are not inferences from the facts of their mystic experiences but mere imaginations.

The mystic who says he has cosmic consciousness implies that he has astral traveled  and seen that this consciousness was also there in the astral world; even if we take his experiences as reality there is no truth in it because it is also mirage within the mirage. Until the duality persists as reality the non-dual reality will not be revealed. 

Those who object that the means and ends of waking are different from those of dreams, and therefore they are not on the same level, ignore that you have time, space and causal relation in both experiences. These three things make the waking experience real to everyone: and are its chief characteristics; similarly they give the same sense of reality to dream. They say waking is real and dream is illusory, but for the one who has learnt to view the worldview on the base of Atman, which is in the form of consciousness as self, both are illusory. 

Where is the need of a creator when one’s own dream experience offers proof that, the true self bring into being a whole waking experience, which contains  world and persons, and if it  can create a dream world, why not also a waking world? Only seeker should not forget that 'Self ' does not refer to the ego which is itself a produced thing but he must know the true self is the formless Atman or consciousness.

The Advanced stages of pursuit of truth, resulting from the constant practice of inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the true base leads to “awareness of the true self”.  One has to mentally separate the self from the three states, know the three states to be the consciousness, because the substance and witness of the three states   is the consciousness.

The three states do not exist; that is not its point; what is felt as real in each states is one and the same thing that is the consciousness, the true Self.

Consciousness is the true Self. Consciousness is within this universe but it is not of this universe. It is in this universe, but not of this universe means it is the formless substance and witness of the universe, which is in the form of the mind (I). The mind (I) appears as waking or dream and disappears as deep sleep. The self who is in the form of consciousness is the formless knower of the mind, which comes and goes.   Consciousness is above; it is transcendental to all the miseries, which are inevitable in this illusory universe.  Therefore, there is a need to realize the fact that, the mind, which is in the form of universe is mere mirage created out consciousness.   Thus, the birth, life, death and world are mere mirage on the stand point of the consciousness, which is the true self. Only on the base of physical self the universe is reality.  Thus the Self is within the universe but it is without the universe.

Only a Gnani alone can actually create the awareness of the truth. He can enliven and illuminate others to get out of this ignorance by being transcendental to the illusory birth, life, death and the universe. Gnani tries to guide the seekers get rid of the inherited ignorance and, rise above the egocentric concepts, be in this universe, but not of this universe, be in tune with the consciousness, which is his  true identity and the ultimate truth.

This material existence is mere mirage. It is like a wax in the candle it will burn away.  All attempts for freedom is possible only when one is ready to overcome the ignorance. To overcome the ignorance is possible only when one realizes the birth, life, death and the world are mere illusion created out of consciousness.  The consciousness is ultimate truth. And the one who knows this truth knows the knower (consciousness) is free from the known (mind).  

Through Self-knowledge, all of one’s egocentric successes and all of his credible accomplishments within the duality are ultimately evaporated and consciousness alone will prevail as non-dual existence.

In Orthodox Advaita they accept karma theory.  If they accept the karma theory, one will not reach the non-dual destination. If one accept karma theory then it is impossible to treat the world as illusion. All the pundits’ explanation of karma theory carries no weight on realm of truth.

The birth, life and death are part of the waking experience, which is mere illusion on the standpoint of the true self (consciousness).  It is no use of saying that, we are not born, we do not die because, because we all were born and we all are going to die. However, the birth, life and death are part of the illusion, which comes and goes as waking experience.  The formless substance and witness of the three states is real, which is our true identity.   The Self which is in the form of consciousness has no birth and death. The ultimate nothing to do with the religious based Advaita, which is based on Vedas.   That is way the Upanishads declared the truth cannot be realized by studying Vedas.

  A Gnani will never say we are not born; we are not going to die.   Only to the mediocre, who nod their head, he will say this to inspire them to think of the formless true identity, which is birth less, deathless.   Thus, it is wrong to say we are not born, and we do not die by limiting the self to the physical entity.  If one limits the self to the physical entity alone, one gets only half-truth.  The consciousness pervades all the three states, as its formless substance and witness.  The formless substance and witness, which is our true self [true identity]. Without knowing the true self-mere saying, we are not born, we do not die is not the knowledge, which has come from depth, it is mere bookish knowledge. Unity in diversity is not possible through bookish knowledge.

Sri, Sankara declared: - The world is unreal. He never said body is unreal. He would have said only birth and death is   unreal, he did not say that, he said the world is unreal.   He meant   the world including the body, because the body and world appear together and disappear together (waking/dream).  Then we have to conclude, what remain without the body and the world as reality.

How can the birth, karma, death, rebirth, and reincarnation, which take place in unreal world [waking/dream], can be true.   The one, which is aware of the birth, life death, rebirth and reincarnation (illusion/unreal), is formless reality, which is the true self/true identity.  The formless self is your true identity, which is birthless and deathless but it is the witness of the birth, life and death and rebirth (illusion/unreal).

 On the standpoint of true identity the birth, life, death, rebirth and reincarnation theory is part of the illusion/unreal.  The body cannot reincarnate, the body and the world are created out of the same formless stuff. Until one views and judges on the base of flesh, bone and blood [five elements], he will not be able to grasp the non-dual truth.  Thus, one must know on what standpoint, we are not born and we do not die thoroughly, just by hearsay views, it will not lead anyone to the non-dual destination.

Seeker has to learn to view and judge on the standpoint of formless witness/soul/self. Then he will be never having any confusion.  When one thinks deeply then only the inner revelation starts and start burning the dross (confusion/doubts).

Seeker will have enough material stored in his subconscious by reading F.P BLOGS; all will start yielding fruits and start revealing, when he stars thinking very deeply.

F.P blogs are not teaching, they are only sign post for those who are seriously seeking truth.  This is the inner process every serious seeker experiences.  The inner dialog will start and he will start getting answers from inner core of his existence. 

Every teaching has to be thoroughly verified through deeper discrimination. If the teaching is egocentric than drop it as useless. If it is purely soul- centric   than accept it as truth. If it is mixed with both then also it has to be dropped.  

ZEN Buddhism Satori is not highest wisdom, because it comes as flashes, it does not depend on seeing the world, and does not depend upon mental sharpness so much as intuition. Zen Buddhists are only mystics--they do not offer proof. How is their main method different from that of Christian mystics, Hindu mystics, all of whom do not seek to prove by reason, but by "I know," intuition?

ZEN may get a flash of peace but that is not the same as Vedantins who realizes that the whole world is yourself. Zen is mysticism.

Zen is quite alright in mentioning non-duality: it is the nearest doctrine to true Advaita outside India, but nevertheless it is still inferior because:

v  It fails to prove non-duality


v  It illogically gives koan exercises as a means of attaining That which is beyond attainment, because always here


v  It talks of insight or intuition to see Reality when sight involves a second thing, duality.

When one says "Nothing is" what is the meaning of "is"? "Sunya" is something which exists: one cannot prove that consciousness does not exist.


Zen Buddhism gives a high important place to meditation practice, but then so does the Advaita. The truth is that Zen advocates the necessity of meditation for those of its adherents who cannot grasp the absolute truth.

ZEN BUDDHISM is also on this lower stage of Yoga, because it depends on flashes of Intuition gained by meditation, not by reasoning.


ZEN: Suzuki's "Zen Contributions to Japanese History" now causes to revise unfavorably the former good estimate of Zen. It is presented there as largely mysticism, while the present day life in Japan plus China war reveals no trace of Zen influence.

Has the Void a meaning? If so then it is only one’s imagination.

Buddha gave up yoga after practicing it for six years. He saw it could not yield truth.

Page.70/71 "Buddhism In Translation” by Warren quoted as showing how Buddha gave up his austerities of yoga as impossible and useless. Thus Buddha got enlightenment only after he gave up Yoga. Unless one exercises his Reason--there is no chance of getting the non- dualistic truth.

Buddhism has not proved the truth of Non-duality. Buddha pointed out unreality of world, we agree. He told people they were foolish to cling to it. But he stopped there. He came nearest to non-duality   in speech but not to non-duality fully. 

Most of the modern thinkers teaching seems essentially negative, a potent but bitter medicine for those imprisoned by institutional cults. They break the seeker’s bonds, but then lead him to a vast desert where they abandon him. The ultimate state of consciousness they describes is that of the traditional sage or fully enlightened being, but he does not show us the process leading to the realization of this state. They describe marvelously the goal, but do not indicate the steps to be taken: their recurring phrases "unified consciousness" or ‘I AM THAT’ and "let go" are not a road map to realize the ultimate truth or Brahman.

The PURANAS

The PURANAS, including Vishnu Purana and Siva Purana, are based on false idea of personal God, because the writers have thought of Him as glorified man and woman.

The translations made till now of Indian philosophical works have represented religion and mythology, not philosophy. The greatest pundits do not understand it, for they do not understand science. What has this mythological teaching done for India? Look at its state today. Look at the conversions. Imagining that God has ashes on his forehead or blazing like the sun-- that is all poetry and depends only on faith.

The Saiva Siddanta sect is dualistic, unphilosophical religion like Ramanuja's sect.

Why did not Ramanuja and Madhva write commentaries on the Upanishads (as Sankara did to establish Brahman) but stop, content with writing commentary on Vysa Sutras, and culling some paras only from the Upanishads with convenient vagueness to establish their God and Theology?

Indians are more religious than other people. The six systems of Indian Philosophy are really six systems of Indian speculation. For there is only one Truth.

The ancient Hindu tenet borrowed by theosophists of universe appearing and dissolving, days and nights of Brahma, entering into pralaya etc. is intended for mediocre intellects who cannot rise to truth. It is a convenient fable representing the philosophic truth that the whole universe dissolves in your mind in deep sleep, thus entering pralaya, and rises again next morning, i.e. it is all imagination, idea. The Brahma-God has nothing to do with it.

NIHILISM 
NIHILISM, the 'Void' of Sunyavada Buddhism is only a stage. It cannot be ultimate. It says there is really nothing. The mistake of Hinayana Buddhism is to jump to assumptions where Buddha kept silent.


How is one to know the real self? To think of the self is an object, as something that can be known and experienced is fallacy. All that is known within the waking or dream is fallacy because the three states are an object to the soul (nothingness), which is the subject. The subject (soul) is within the object but it is without the object. It (soul) is always no one (formless) because it is not an entity or identity within the waking or dream but consciousness /soul (nothingness) pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states. 

People think that to withdraw from all sense-activity, from all thoughts, all life-experiences, i.e., to cease to be active, is the highest state.

All the senses, thoughts and individual experiences and the world are present only in waking or dream. Waking or dream (duality) disappears as deep sleep non-duality. Thus what becomes dual and non-dual experience is most impotent than inquiring ‘WHO AM I?’  or saying ‘I AM THAT’  or affirming I AM BRAHMAN. 

The self is not an individual because ‘Self’ is formless. If the self is formless than where is the body, where are the senses, where is ego, where is universe. If the self is not physical body than it proves the fact that, man is not the self, but the formless knower of the man and the world is the true self.   Thus knowledge based on man as self is false knowledge within the false experience.

One has to go beyond Vedas means go beyond religion. Go beyond religion means, go beyond concept of god.  Thus, going beyond Veda, religion and conceptual god means going beyond illusion.   That is end of Vedas [Veda –antha] 

When one goes into the annals of the history it looks like the Gnanic Advaita expounded by Sri Sankara and his param guru, Goudpada is not orthodox Advaita, which is adulterated with add-ons time to time. 

 It is necessary for the seeker to do his homework, and verify the validity of all the claims, rather than blindly believe, what others expound as knowledge, till; the un-contradicted truth is obtained.

The seeker must have the courage of Buddha to accept the truth and reject the untruth. Since Buddha rejected religion, idea of god and scriptures, therefore, it is evident that, he has gone through every aspect and verified and found them to be inadequate and useless for the pursuit of truth.

That is why BUDDHA SAID: - Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.


Even Buddhism is mixed up with regional culture and traditions of the local religion, wherever it existed. Thus to get the full essence from Buddhism is very difficult.

The scriptures are for ignorant masses, who wholly accept the material world as it presents itself. Wisdom is for those who have begun to realize that things are not what they seem.

Each sect concocts a God to suit its own purposes.  Such concocted Gods have no value in pursuit of truth.  Man himself suggests that there must be a God. It is an auto-suggestion. 

Prayers and sacrifices belong to a premature stage of development. However when no answers come to prayers, struggle for existence presses man, and doubt arises again.  Faith in religion weakens as man pays more attention to facts of life and this world. 

Reason is the common ground for whole humanity in modern age, whereas the appeal to scriptural relations reaches only the sects.  Those who argue that truth is only in their religion are vain logicians, depending on mere ideas, speculations and imaginations. 

Truth is bitter pill. It becomes very difficult for the seeker to accept it at first; because of his inherited conditioning. Gradually he will be able to grasp it as he moves on.

The illusion is present only in ignorance where, 'I' and you are separate entity. In truth, there is neither 'I' nor you, nor, the illusion. Therefore there is no teaching, no teacher, and no student in reality.

Truth pursuit is a very personal journey. Seeker has to verify minutely on his own, “what is truth”, and “what is not truth”, before accepting anything as truth. The illusion exists as reality, only on base of the ego, which is he false self within the false experience.

For Gnani, who is aware of the fact that the self is not physical but self is consciousness, there is no illusion, even though; he is in the midst of illusion, because he is fully aware of the fact that, all the three states are consciousness.  Therefore he is conscious of consciousness in the midst of illusion.  

The language of the duality, invented by the within the duality, for use in the dualistic world, when used to describe non-duality, produces these apparent contradictions, because there no apparatus in non-duality, because noting exist other than the soul, which is in the form of consciousness. 

Non duality is the state of oneness of existence and there is no scope in its philosophy for anything like non-existence. 

Gaudapada’s rational exposition of Advaita: - that whatever is seen, whether external or internal, whether by the ordinary persons or yogis, is unreal.

The essence of Mandukya's is: Do not be satisfied with rituals, yoga etc. which are good in their own way, but inquiry. Inquire in to the nature of the mind. ? Brahman and Atman are things one can never see. So seeker should not inquire into them.  He has to inquire into the world around him, which he can see. Analysis   tells him it is passing away every second. Everything is dying repeatedly. Where is it going? Thus he follows up his investigation into what he can lay hands on. How can he inquire into Atman which he cannot see? So first he must deal with the known and seen, this inquiry leads up to the unknown in the end.

Mediocre minds waste their time on arguing about unimportant matters. Accumulation of scriptural knowledge is dangerous in pursuit of truth. Seeker has to establish in the truth of Non-duality by sheer reasoning alone. Seeker has to begin by defining "What is real?" "What is unreal?" etc, because that is the right way to discuss, understand and assimilate self-knowledge.
Thus seeker has to remove all the hindrance in order to acquire Self-knowledge.  

In deeper self-search one becomes aware of the fact that, many things what we consider as truth and hold on to it, becomes meaningless. We have to hold on to the formless witness of the three states, not the three states which are mere illusion. Mentally holding on the formless witness and by negating the three states as illusion, then the witness alone will prevail.      

Truth which has no basis is usually religion or a mere catalogue of ignorant opinions; people prefer it because it can be got more easily. A religious philosophy based on the physical self/ego is worthless from the standpoint of truth. 

Truth is incomplete and inaccurate without reasoning. Truth means certain and exact knowledge. The science which limits it to its practical applications such modern machines, are wrong because science is only physical based wisdom. There is no need to learn any practical science in order to get the ultimate truth. Science is very helpful to give more comforts for mankind. But the ultimate truth is beyond physical based science.   But one has to have certain knowledge of   the fact that, the self is not physical before indulging in pursuit of truth.

Only through reason based on the formless consciousness as self, one gets the exactness and certitude of knowledge therefore he acquires the Self-Knowledge/Non-dual wisdom. When one has an exact and certain knowledge of un-contradictable truth he can utilize it for the guiding the fellow seekers.  The people who assume without any proof, have untrained reason

What is it that makes the body and the world exists for you? It is awareness. Mind is this whole universe in which you, me and others and everything that you, me and others know they exists. The whole universe which contains you, me and others is mental; therefore it is mind.  

The universe (mind) is mere mirage or illusion created out of the self, which is the soul. One has to analyze the mind through deeper thinking. Then only he becomes aware of the fact that, the mind is not confined to the body; because the mind is the whole universe.  The universe appears as mind and the mind appears as waking or dream.  And waking or dream disappears as deep sleep. This fact has to be investigated and assimilated first.   
 
If the mind is whole universe and the universe is in the soul, which is the true self; what is there to claim as mine when there is nothing beside the soul, which is in the form of consciousness; when whatever is, is the true self or the consciousness. Consciousness converted in to waking or dream.  And waking or dream is converted into deep sleep.  Thus the substance of the three states is one and the same. Thus the substance itself is witness of the three states. Therefore, the substance and witness are one in essence.    The essence is consciousness. The consciousness is the ultimate truth.    

Thus, whatever is claimed as me and mine is meaningless from the ultimate point of view because there is no second thing exist other than consciousness.  

Consciousness is everything, then there is nothing exist other than consciousness. Lectures limit consciousness.  If one wants to overcome the physical conditioning of consciousness, then he has to realize the fact that, self is not physical but it is formless soul, which is in the form of consciousness. So there is room for duality in reality, therefore the birth, life, death and world are mere illusion created out of consciousness.   

Having renounced the three states [illusion] mentally, one perceives the ultimate truth, through non-dual wisdom.  Whatever prevails without the three states is the ultimate truth. 

Man thinks he is apart from the universe. It is not so.  He and his experience of the universe appear together and disappear together. Man exists within the universe.   For the universe to exist man   have to exist first. For god to exist man has to exist first.  Therefore, it is necessary to verify the facts about your own existence first, to unfold the mystery. 

Name is given to the body. The name is not the self.  One did not have this name before christening.  Only when one started identifying with his name and form, all these burden and bondage of the duality arises.  Man and his experience of the universe exist only in waking experience. Same way as the dream entity and the dream universe exists in dream. The dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. Similarly, the waking becomes unreal, when you realize the self is not the body with name, but the self is the formless knower of the body with the name.  Thinking the universe as something separate from the body is cause of the individuality. 

   Seeker has to become aware of the fact that, his individuality and his individual experience of the universe are reality within the waking experience. Thus all his fear desire and ups and downs of life are reality within the waking experience. Waking experience appears and disappears same way as the dream appears as disappears.  One doesn’t consider the dream as reality when it disappears, because he is in waking experience.  one has  to realize the fact that, waking experience is also as unreal as the dream, because the witness of the three states is formless and apart. 

This is possible only when one mentally trace the knower [formless witness] of his body and his experience of the universe together.  Therefore, the one which knows one’s body with the name, and his experience of the universe is apart from the knower, which is formless. The knower has to exist prior to knowing.   Therefore, your body with name and its experience of the universe is something known. Therefore, the knower is not the name, but the formless knower of the name and his experience of the universe.  Therefore, it is erroneous to view and judge and conclude the truth on the base of the name, because the one which knows and his experience of universe is formless and apart.  If one thinks as a person    then it leads to intellectuality and imagination.  

If one try to verify the facts of his true existence through deeper enquiry by peeling the known [mind] from the knower (soul) then he will realize self is not body with the name but self is formless consciousness.  

One has to renounce the ignorance of accepting the body with the name as self.  By accepting himself as person is the cause of experiencing the birth, life, death and the world as reality. 

Now what is body with the name and the experience of the universe? Body with the name and her experience of the universe is too consciousness (soul). Therefore, the whole experience of diversity is created out of single clay and that clay is consciousness, which is formless.  When everything is consciousness, then there is no second thing exists, other than consciousness (soul).  Hence it is non-dual. 

Thinking the self as body with the name is the cause of the ignorance. By realizing self is not body with the name  but self is formless consciousness the physical structure built on the false base of body with the name  will become a mere mirage created out of consciousness.    

Therefore it is necessary to learn to view and judge the worldview not on the base of body with the name as self but on the base of consciousness (soul) as self to realize our physical existence which is full of pleasure or pain is mere illusion.  

It takes a long time because you have conditioned to view and judge the worldview as a person within the world.  To overcome physical conditioning you have to renounce the ignorance and realize the self is not body with the name but it is formless soul, which is in the form of consciousness.  Only by perfect understanding one will become aware of the ultimate reality.  Thus all your fear and anxiety are reality within the illusion, because man and his experience of the universe are reality within the illusion.   

One has to learn to think on the base the formless knower (soul) of the three states, not as waking entity, then all his doubts and confusion will get cleared.  


Adyatmic dicussion-56







To the question "Who am I?" the only relevant answer is silence. You need to
discard all answers in words, including "I am Nothing" or "I am the Cosmic Self"
or "I am the Self" - and just stick to the question "Who am I?". All
other answers are just thoughts. Thoughts can never be complete. Only Silence is
complete.
Sri Sri Ravi Shankar.
June 29 at 2:06am · · ·


    • Reinhard Stammer I think, that the silence apearce, when there is no me and then the you cannot disturb my mind whether there is loudness or silence ;-)
      June 29 at 2:43am ·

    • Pri Ya Salience is effortless; the seeker who asks Who am I? is the effort itself. It takes effort to reach the effortless.
      June 29 at 3:06am ·

    • Christy Pfeifer It's not a question how silence is, but to keep quiet ...and what is needed to be revealed will simply happen ♥
      June 29 at 3:11am ·

    • Christy Pfeifer Reinhard..Silence is the backround of all What IS, you have not to join It.This is a good quote, nevertheless words are only concepts and a pointer to Truth.
      June 29 at 3:17am ·

    • Pri Ya ‎:) enjoy
      June 29 at 3:19am ·

    • Christy Pfeifer Enjoy ♥♥♥
      June 29 at 3:20am ·

    • Ken Butler Can you ask the question without presupposing there is an answer?
      June 29 at 7:03pm · · 1 person

    • Christy Pfeifer The answer will come from the mind..so really there is none.
      June 30 at 1:15am · · 1 person

    • Pri Ya
      Trace where it arises from: who am I? Who is asking the question? Where does it rise from? The purpose of the quest is to turn the mind inward: once it mirrors itself it burns and vanishes; ramana pointed to the spiritual heart rightly howe...See More

      June 30 at 1:27am · · 2 people

    • Mark Hunton It's amazing how everyone has an answer when there is none>hahaha
      July 2 at 10:18am ·

    • Mark Hunton Anyone can be a Parrot, repeat something they read in a book. Boring
      July 2 at 10:24am · · 1 person

    • Mark Hunton I'd rather be good for nothing then better at something!
      July 2 at 10:26am ·

    • Pavlos Dolatzoglou Hello Mark, yes! experts as far the eyes can see... ;o))
      July 2 at 5:12pm ·

    • Pavlos Dolatzoglou
      Somewhere in Nothern America, near the mountains and in the forrest, a community made preparations for the near winter. They brought wood to the sawmill, but they weren`t sure how much they would need. One of them heard, that up in the moun...See More

      July 2 at 5:44pm · · 1 person

    • Pri Ya Conclusion it's best to keep quiet :)
      July 2 at 5:53pm ·

    • Christy Pfeifer ♥♥♥
      July 3 at 1:32am ·

    • Reinhard Stammer Hi Christy, thats what I meant. Excuse my bad english. It is not necessary to find a silent place. The calmness is oneself. The buddhist monks in Kyoto overthought to find a more silent place, when Kyoto grows up, but the Zen master said that you are the silence by itself and if that is so nothing can disturb you.
      July 4 at 10:21pm · · 1 person

    • Pri Ya That's very wise and true. Sri Papaji used to say that you only need meditate in the forest as long as the seeker is there; knowing you are peace itself you can meditate in the fish market; You are meditation: you are salience that is your true nature: to doubt it is mind itself and mind is not real: like ribhu Gita says: ever unreal :
      July 4 at 10:46pm · · 2 people

    • Christy Pfeifer ‎( ( ( ♥ ) ) )
      July 5 at 12:48am ·

    • Kip Glenn Lambel
      If we are honest in our search for "who am I?", then we notice that every answer that arises is an idea. Each idea that arises is a limitation of sorts, and we can easily see beyond the limitation so the idea is seen to be false. Each and e...See More

      July 5 at 2:48am · · 1 person

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      This is from one of my blogs:-[ Seeker of truth has to go much deeper and beyond “WHO AM I?, to reach the non-dual destination.] There is no vessel to ferry man across the ocean of worldliness except Gnana. But what is Gnana? Gnana is the full and firm realization of the self – a realization beyond all doubt, confusion, change and contradiction.

      The Gnana will not dawn -neither by control of mind or breath, nor by karma or action, neither by devotion to conceptual god, nor by rituals and penance, nor pilgrimaging nor by surrendering to physical guru nor by glorifying god men, Because all these are part of the ignorance. Whatever is related to sense of ‘I’ is ignorance.

      The Gnana dawns only when the self, wakes up to its formless nondual nature and comes out of the sense of the sense of ‘I’ by realizing ‘I’, which is mind is mere mirage.

      The self is ‘I’-less, formless, deathless existence. One has to inquiry in to truth carried on with deeper reasoning, is the chief means of attaining the self-Knowledge. One pointed deeper self –search, receptiveness, sharpness to grasp the truth, inner urge and humility are necessary to attain truth. If a seeker enters upon the life of deeper thinking with all these necessary equipment, he will certainly reach the nondual destination. Gnana or wisdom is the result of contemplation; it annihilates the ignorance. Until one reaches the climax of Gnana or wisdom he cannot be said to have attained the firm realization of the self.

      Sri, Ramana Maharshi’s teaching is helpful to the seeker to remove many obstacles in the pursuit of truth but seeker of truth has to go much deeper and beyond “WHO AM I?, to reach the non-dual destination.

      “Arise, awake; and understand the supreme Goal” [Kathopanisad]

      Sri, Ramana Maharishi said: scriptural knowledge is conceptual divisions invented by teachers of philosophy by their excessive analysis. Where do all these concepts end? Why should confusion created and then explained away? Fortunate is the man who does not lose himself in the labyrinths of philosophy, but goes straight to the source from which they all arise.

      Ramana Maharishi indicated the direct path to the truth, is the source from which the false arises. Thus the source is the soul/ Ataman, which is the true self. Ataman itself is Brahman. Thus it is necessary to view the worldview on the base of the source, which the true self, and formless substance and witness of the experience of diversity. Thus deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the true base, one can acquire the self –knowledge in lesser time and effort. The unity in diversity is possible only through self-knowledge not by mastering the scriptural knowledge.

      Ramana Maharishi says: this self –inquiry is not the critical study of the scriptures. When the source is reached the ego gets merged into it. The result of self-inquiry is the cure for all the sorrows. It is the highest of all the results. There is nothing greater then it. It only indicates there is no necessity to study the scriptures to acquire self-knowledge. [Page-66-practicle guide to know yourself c/e by A.R.N].

      Ramana Maharishi says:

      Q by D:- Is not necessary to study the Vedas or at least the Prasthanatraya [the Bhagavad Gita,Dasopanishad and Brahma Sutras, all with commentaries]to ensure firm realization?

      Ramana Maharishi:-No. Do you need all that to see yourself? All that is intellectual wealth, useful in explain doubts and difficulties if others rise them or if you yourself encounter them in the course of thinking. But to attain realization, all that is not necessary. You want fresh water to drink, but you do not require all the water of the river Ganges to quench your thirst. [Page 111/112 of Practical guide to know yourself c/e by A.R.N].

      This surely indicates Sri, Ramana Maharishi’s path is independent path nothing to with the religion and scriptures.

      I have the highest reverence for Sri, Ramana Maharishi a sage of highest order.

      As one goes deeper in self- search he becomes aware of the fact that, the Sri, Raman Maharishi’s Self-inquiry is not enough to reach the nondual destination.

      In my deeper self-search I became aware the Self-Inquiry prescribed by Sri, Ramana Maharishi is inadequate to reach the ultimate end. This is because he might have prescribed it to the beginners and as they go deep enough they will work it on their own. Most of his followers are of the orthodox back ground.

      Sri, Ramana Maharshi’s teachings are very valuable for seeking world. But serious seekers have to move much deeper and beyond Who am ‘I’? , to realize the ‘I’ itself is illusion.

      Pursuit of truth starts from inquiring “Who am ‘I’? but wisdom dawns only by knowing the mind, which is in the form of universe and the self ,which is in the form of consciousness. Who am ‘I’ inquiry helps to unfold half-truth. To leave out one of these parts is to prevent attainment of non-dual wisdom.

      "Who am I” is useful no doubt, it has certainly a value in its place, and gives some knowledge of self as the Witness, but what about the witnessed? The universe still faces us. It must also be looked at. If the universe is ignored, then "Who am I” cannot give the full truth. It is the yogic enquiry; not the spiritualistic; the latter deals with the whole of life whereas the former deals with a part only.

      "Who am I" is dualistic, because there, is no person in the realm of truth but only in the illusion the ‘I’ exists. . It should be "What is “I”?" To meditate on the formula “What am I?" can only yield the thought 'I'. I never cease even after long years of practice of “Who am I?” inquiry. The question "Who am I” is an egocentric, not a soul-centric question. It is a based on the physical self. It is on a par with "What shall I be after death?" and "What shall I get if I do good deed in this life?" It is purely ego-cantered: it is an appeal to the interest in egoistic only. Only the soul-centric -minded can lift their thoughts above ego and inquire;-What is this mind? "What is the universe?" “What is the substance of the mind?

      All the experiences of the three states put together make the Atman[self], not merely the ego questioning itself ''Who am I.”

      Meditation on the whole is the best meditation: meditation on the parts is only steps towards that. The first thing that one sees is the world. The yogis and religionist disregard this in order to think of self because they are unaware of the fact that self is not the ‘I’. They think ‘I’ is the true self and they continue their spiritual pursuit without verifying what ‘I’ is?. The deeper inquiry analysis reveals the fact that, ‘I’ is not the self, but ‘I’ is mind and mind is the universe, which appears as whole waking experience of dream. Thus, people who limit the ‘I’ to the physical entity or ego will never be able to reach their non-dual destination.

      Those who jump at once to Atman disregarding the world are yogis or religionists, not seekers of truth. If one don’t see the world, it does not mean he have wisdom. One who looks at objects alone, at the external world, he is wholly ignorant. But he who is able to witness his body and the world together without the physical apparatus is a Gnani.

      We have to analyse both mind and its source to get at truth. Two things are necessary in pursuit of truth:-

      (1) Knowledge of the object [mind or universe]

      (2) Knowledge of the subject [true self].

      When one begins inquiry he does it to please himself, not for truth; hence he asks "Who am I?" It is an elementary stage of discipline because ego-bound but aiming at loosening ego. But one has to become aware of the fact that, the body, ego and universe appear together and they disappear together. Therefore just trying to get rid of the ego alone is impossibility.

      Those seekers who inquire “Who am I?" may succeed in finding the common factor in all ‘I’s, the I-ness but they have to come back afterwards to the world or duality. Their task is incomplete. They do not know the world also is consciousness.

      "What is ‘I’? is " a spiritualistic interrogation. What is the universe? What is mind? What is the whole? One becomes aware of the fact that ‘I’ is the mind and mind is the universe. After having examined deeply; one becomes aware of the fact that the universe is noting to with self that is the experience of birth, life and death has nothing to do with the self, which is in the form of consciousness. The self is the formless and witness of the universe, which is in the form of ‘I’, which comes and goes as waking or dream. The self is the one witness in all and are really ever free. Therefore there is a need to become aware of the fact that ‘I’ is not the self but the formless substance and witness of the ‘I’ is the true self.

      When the self is not the body then the inquiry will not go further, it stops there because self is formless, but just by knowing the self is formless the sense of ‘I’ will not vanish. The sense of ‘I’ will prevail. Until sense of ‘I’ prevails, the ignorance prevails. Until ignorance is there, duality is there. Until duality there, the illusion is there. Until illusion is there, the unreality will be experienced as reality. Thus one has to think beyond “Who am “I”? in order to realize Brahman or ultimate truth.

      People find self-inquiry is difficult and drop it without going deeper enough.

      I admire David Goodman who has done deeper research on Sri, Ramana Maharishi and contributed much information about Sri, Raman Maharishi and Papaji to seeking world :-

      In an Interview with David Godman by Rob Sacks:-

      It's fashionable nowadays to be very positive about one's spiritual experiences. People like to jump up and down and exclaim, "I'm free! I'm free!" I prefer the refreshing honesty of a devotee, Sivaprakasam Pillai, who, after fifty years of being with Sri Ramana, was still lamenting about his faults and his lack of progress. This is the person who first got Bhagavan to record his teachings on self-enquiry in 1901. I admired his honesty, his humility and his integrity in admitting that he still couldn't control his mind. [An Interview with David Godman by Rob Sacks for Realization.org Page 1]

      This proves that even after long years practice of self-inquiry a sincere and serious devotee like Sri, Sivapraksam Pillai, who, after fifty years of being with Sri Ramana, was still lamenting about his faults and his lack of progress. Thus with the practice of self- inquiry, it is difficult to reach the ultimate end. Thus one has to find out on his own what is blocking his realization and remove the blockades on his own.

      And also in that interview:-

      RS: I often wonder whether Westerners misunderstand Ramana Maharshi. What are the most common misconceptions about his teachings?

      DG: I am not sure how much understanding there is of Ramana Maharshi and his teachings in the West. He is an iconic figure to a vast number of people who are following some sort of spiritual path. I think that for many people he epitomizes all that is best in the Hindu Guru tradition, but having said that, I think that very few people know much about him, and even fewer have a good grasp of his teachings. Not many people read books about him nowadays � I know that from trying to sell my own �and even fewer would profess themselves to be his devotee. I find there is very little interest in his teachings even among the people who come to visit Ramanasramam. Nowadays, many of the people who come are spiritual tourists, pilgrims who just travel round India, checking out all the various ashrams and teachers.About twenty years ago I met a foreigner here who had come to the ashram for advice on how to do self-inquiry properly. For several days he couldn't find anyone who was practicing it, even in Ramanasramam. The people he asked in the ashram office just told him to buy the ashram's publications and find out from them how to do it. Eventually, he had what he thought was a bright idea. He stood outside the door of the meditation hall at Ramanasramam, the place where Sri Ramana lived for over twenty years, and asked everyone who came out how to do self-inquiry. It transpired that none of the people inside were doing self-inquiry. They came out one by one and said, "I was doing japa," or "I was doing vipassana," or "I was doing Tibetan visualizations."

      How can there be misunderstandings among people who have never even bothered to find out the teachings in the first place, or put them into practice?

      [An Interview with David Godman by Rob Sacks for Realization.org Page 2]

      Until the seeker is serious and sincere in pursuit of truth it is difficult to reach the ultimate end. Seeker has to find what is blocking his realization even after many years of practice of self-inquiry and find out the reason for what is blocking his realization of the self.

      One has to find answers for all the doubts and confusion in Sri, Ramana Maharishi's "Who Am I? inquiry

      If mind is same as Atman, how can it vanish? How can Atman vanish? [Page 4 Para. 3]

      Ramana Mahrshi says: - "Whenever any thought leads you outward" etc. What can you be certain of when you leave the external world? And why leave the world if you say everything is Brahman? [Page 6 –middle]

      Mind ceases to struggle" Yes, if I commit suicide I shall also cease to struggle! How can you say the world ceases to exist if you don't look at it? [Page 6]

      Who has seen the subtle mind projecting through the brain and the senses? Can you see it? Is not brain also a piece of gross matter? Then how can it come into existence after the world is created, if latter, depends on brain. [Page 6 last Para]

      How can you say the world vanishes when you are introspected? The world is still there; whether you see it or not. [Page 7 top]

      Heart is an idea created by mind, so how can Mind emerge from it? [Page 7 Line 4]

      "One should unquestioningly follow guru"--This is the very reverse of what Sri Ramakrishna taught. What if the guru happens to be a fool or a rascal? Sri Ramakrishna said "Test me![ Page 11, Para 2]

      "In deep sleep, trance, swoon, mind turns inwards and enjoys atmasukam." Why should any man study or inquire or practice if in sleep he can easily get the Atman? If sleep gives Brahman why trouble with Vedanta? [Page 12: middle]

      Page 16 middle: "If this truth is appreciated who can refrain from being good?" This is opposite of real Vedanta. Vedanta says it is not enough to be good, you must serve the world and relieve suffering. [Page 16 middle]

      Page 16 last para. Is the vanishing of ego to be the end of life? [Page 16 last para]

      Only after one finds answers for all above doubts and able to clear all his doubts he will be able to move forward in his pursuit of truth.

      EGO, I must indeed go but thou must come one must know Brahman is everywhere. It is only half to say ego must vanish. This is only a step, not highest.

      One must realize everything is consciousness. Sri, Ramana Maharishi's teaching is most useful in elementary stages in pursuit of truth, but one has to do his own home work to reach the ultimate end.

      2

      Self -inquiry prescribed by Sri,Raman Mahrshi is a good tool in the beginning of the pursuit of truth. But seeker will find it inadequate to in latter stages. However, it creates lots of doubts and confusion. The seeker has to find the answers on his own through deeper reasoning, then all his doubts and confusions will be cleared, and he will be able to move ahead in the path of inquiry, and he will be able to reach his nondual destination.

      The doubts and confusion in Self-Inquiry:-

      The seeker has to overcome the doubts and confusion in in later stages in self-inquiry, the seeker finds some doubts and confusion, which cannot be overcome if inquiry practiced on the present format prescribed in self-inquiry book. As per my personal research the self-inquiry in the present format will not yield any fruits.

      If mind is same as Ataman, how can it vanish--when the mind appears and disappears as Waking or dream?

      How can one be certain when one leave the external world--when the person is within the world?

      Why leave the external world when everything is Brahman---when everything is Brahman why crate division between the world and its perceiver?

      How can the world alone cease to exist if one does not look at it—how can the person remain without the world and where he will exist without the world?

      Who has the subtle mind projecting through brain and senses? How can one see his subtle mind?--when the brain also piece of the gross matter? ---then how can the brain come into existence after the world is created if the later depends on the brain.

      Heart is idea created by mind, how the mind can emerge from it---when the heart disappear along with the mind and reappears along with the mind, how the mind emerge from it.

      In deep sleep, swoon and trance, the mind turns inwards and enjoys its natural state--if so why should one inquire if one gets Ataman in sleep. With drug one can get sleep and peace or bliss. If sleep gives Brahman then why trouble with inquiry--better get it through sleeping pills or ganja.

      There are many seekers practicing inquiry for many years and waiting for something mystical to happen, why nothing happens and why their inquiry does not yield fruits.

      Since Sri, Ramana Maharishi is not present physically to guide us, seeker to overcome these obstacles in the path of inquiry on his own.

      In the waking or dream, the objects of experience like sound, touch etc. are varied and different from each other. The one which is aware of the coming and going of the waking or dream is apart from them. The one which is aware of them is consciousness. Thus the experience of diversity [waking or dream] is created out of single stuff, which is consciousness. Thus everything in diversity [waking or dream] is mere mirage created out of consciousness. Thus the form and names within the duality [waking or dream] has no value therefore, everything is one without the division of forms and names.

      Man experiences the world within the waking or dream. The world is reality for man within the world. The man and world are unreality for the formless witness of the three states, which is also the formless substance of the three states. Thus the individual experiences such as birth, life, death and the world or pain and pleasure are mere illusion from the ultimate standpoint. Thus basing on the waking entity and judging the truth is erroneous, because the self is neither the waking entity not the dream entity but the self is the formless witness of all the three states.

      Thus 'I' and 'I Am' which is limited to the waking experience or dream is not the self, because the consciousness which is the true self pervades all the three states as their formless substance and witness. Thus, all the sense organs belong to the physical entity. And physical entity is reality within the waking experience, but the waking experience itself is unreal from the ultimate standpoint.

      The difference within waking or dream does not affect their formless witness in any way. Within the waking or dream the objects may be different from each other. But there is a single witness of them all because the witness witnesses the waking or dream as a whole.

      When one says 'I hear', 'I touch', 'I see', etc. the hearing, touching and seeing are experiences within the waking or dream. But all these are experiences experienced by the false self within the false experience, because within the waking or dream the physical apparatus is considered as self, whereas the true self has no physical apparatus. Thus all the experiences are falsehood.



      The three states are an object to the subject, which is consciousness. The objects are also different. But the 'consciousness ' that knows them all one and the same in and through all the experiences. Only within the waking or dream one is able to know distinctions like form, time and space and pain and pleasure, etc. But the knower is undivided and undifferentiated in and through all the experiences of the three states.

      Formless knower [witness] is not differentiated from the known. It is because the knower and the known are one and the same. Since the experiences are varied when do we know the formless knower, to be undifferentiated?

      When self is mentally separated from the three states after realizing the subject object relation. The Consciousness is hidden within the three states as their form less substance. Consciousness is apart from the three states as their formless witness. It is apart because it is neither the waking entity not it is the dream entity but the formless witness of all the three states.

      When the three states, which are mere object to the formless subject is dropped mentally, then the Consciousness alone prevails in its formless nondual true nature.

      It is just like one and the same water becoming snow, and cloud. The substance is one and the same. If it is not cloud or snow it remains as water. In the same way, without the three states consciousness alone prevails because all the three states are mere mirage created out of consciousness.

      The three states come and go in succession but the knowing principle, the Awareness, remains one and the same in all the three states. The formless, witness, who is in the form of consciousness, remains same through all the experiences.

      The dream is parallel waking and waking is parallel dream. The formless knower that knows the coming and going of the three states is one. Thus on the base of the formless knower, the three states are mere mirage. When the mirage is mentally dropped after realization of their unreal nature, than the duality will never be experienced as reality again.

      The unreal nature of the experience of form, space, time & objects within the dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. The reality of the unreal nature of form time and space of the waking experience is exposed, when the waking entity becomes aware of the fact that, it itself is not the self, but the true self is that which sees all the three states without the physical apparatus as passing show.

      The form, time and space are reality within the waking or dream. But from the standpoint of the formless source, from where waking or dream arise and subside the three states are non-existent. The formless source is consciousness. The consciousness is the true self. Waking or dream or mere mirage created out of the consciousness. The nature of the Consciousness is oneness. Thus, the waking or dream not differs from each other because they are mere mirage created out of consciousness. Thus they are both are one in essence.

      The witness, the Consciousness, in the waking is not different from the one in the dream. The waking objects are varied but their witness is one and the same. The dream objects are varied but their witness is one and the same. In other words the witness of the waking and the dream is one and the same.

      In deep sleep state there is a continuity of the Consciousness. In the deep sleep state, the witness is in its formless nondual true nature, that is, it is in self-awareness. In waking or dream it is ignorant of its true nature. Thus there is emptiness in the deep sleep. This cognition is recollected by when it is again enters in to state of ignorance and wakes up as waking or. Dream entity .thus it is erroneous to view and judge the worldview on the waking entity because the witness is present in all the three states.

      To overcome all the doubts and confusions, one has to mentally trace the existence of the formless witness, which sees all the three states, which comes and goes in succession. Without that witness the three states are non-existent because it is also the formless substance of the three states. When the waking entity becomes aware of the fact that, it is not the self but the self is the witness of the three states in the midst of waking experience, then the form, time and space within the waking experience ceases to be real. Thus the waking entity realizes the fact that, form, time and space are mere division created out of consciousness. Thus the form, time and space are mere mirage created out of consciousness. Thus there is no division in consciousness. The divisions are mere mirage without the division there is only oneness.

      The confusion arises when one says, 'During deep sleep there was neither waking nor dream. The whole waking or dream experiences were absent. But the formless witness was present. The witness was present without the waking or dream. In waking it was witnessing the waking as whole and in dream it was witnessing the dream as whole. The individual happenings within the waking or dream are nothing to do with the formless witness. Thus judging the truth on the base of individual happening within the waking or dream is erroneous, because the witness is neither the waking entity nor the dream entity but the one that witnesses the waking or dream as a whole without the physical apparatus.

      Man experiences the world within the waking or dream. The dream is an experience. Similarly the waking also is an experience. The dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. The waking and dream becomes unreal in deep sleep. The one which is aware of the three states is hidden within the three states but it is without the three states. It is hidden within the three states as their formless substance and it is without the three states as their formless witness. Thus mentally tracing the formless substance and witness of the three states is necessary, in order to realize the substance and witness are one in essence. And that essence is consciousness.

      Thus it is very necessary to investigate “What is it that, becomes waking or dream?” and “What is it that becomes deep sleep?” rather than finding answers for the meaning of life or inquiring “Who am I?”, What am I?’, “Whence am I?” which are helpful only in preliminary stages in pursuit of truth.

      The pursuit of truth is to know the truth of the whole not the part. Birth, life and death takes place within the world. The world is reality within the waking experience but the waking experience itself is mere mirage. By knowing and realizing, with what this mirage, which is in the form of mind or universe came into existence; one becomes aware of the ultimate truth, which consciousness. Thus consciousness alone is real and all else [universe or mind] is false created out of consciousness.

      July 6 at 9:03am ·

    • Dilip Desai Nisargadatta Maharaj is reported to have said " You can never truly know what you are , but it is enough if you know what you are NOT "
      July 15 at 5:06pm · · 3 people

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Until one has the conviction that, he is an individual separate from the universe and he is born in this universe and universe existed prior to him it is difficult to realize what is truth and what is not truth. But as one indulges in deeper self search he becomes aware of the fact that the physical existence is mere mirage created out of consciousness. in physical existence man limits the self to physical entity whereas in the realm of truth the self pervades all the three states as their formless substance and witness. That formless substance is consciousness. Thus consciousness is the true self. thus our judgment has to based on the true self , not on the waking entity[ego],which is the false self. only than we will have the yardstick to know 'what is truth?' 'what is untruth?' without knowing what is untruth it is very difficult to know 'what is truth. That is why BUDDHA SAID: - Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

      July 15 at 8:33pm · · 1 person

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      The Answer for 'WHO AM 'I' ? is not keeping silence in duality but to trace the source of mind from where it rises and subsides from and into. By knowing the source of the mind one becomes aware of the fact that, the source is the soul,which is in form of consciousness,which is the true self. The nature of the soul is formless non-dual silence. the WHO AM 'I' ? and I AM THAT are most impotent stages in pursuit of truth. the wisdom will not dawn in this stages. seeker has to go much deeper in their self search to understand ,assimilate and realize the non dual truth to reach the non dual destination of ultimate truth or state of Brahman. since it is very personal journey one has to drop all the accumulated knowledge and without mental spoon feeding one has to use his own discrimination and reach the inner core of his true existence. that is why Upanishads itself declares:- sarvam khalvidam brahma - all this (universe) is verily Brahman. By following back all of the relative appearances in the world, we eventually return to that from which it is all manifest – the non-dual reality [ Chandogya Upanishad]. By adopting WHO AM I and I AM that only half journey is completed,which is only intellectual understanding based on physicality. That is why Upanishds say :- They alone in this world are endowed with the highest wisdom who are firm in their conviction of the sameness and birthlessness of Ataman. The ordinary man does not understand their way. [Chapter IV — Alatasanti Prakarana 95-P-188 in Upanishads by Nikilanada]. COMMON people and primitive minds fall into faulty thinking through their inherited conditioning , such faulty thinking and reasoning makes them accept the experience of birth, life and death as reality ; taking what one sees through the senses as real, taking what is apparent obvious and superficial as true because it is less troublesome.
      Many People adopt the attitude that what they know is truth. And what others say is false. This attitude makes them not to verify anything other then what they know. One needs to be rational, not merely logical. Logic is has its value only in physical plane.
      As one advances towards spiritual plane he sees the logic underlying experience and becomes more rational. His reasoning is two-fold--implicit and explicit.
      There is a need of facts of physical proof in scientific invention, whereas in pursuit of truth the proof has to be grasped mentally and realized. Therefore, the truth is realized only by few who take this mental pursuit. “Whatever facts revealed, which is un-contradictable has to be accepted as truth.
      The truth based on the formless soul/self is worthwhile; without it, one has something else, not truth. Most people refuse to venture into pursuit of truth; because they do not want to go into the root of things.
      Until one gets firm conviction of the ultimate truth he has to constantly reflect on the nature of the true self, till he achieves the equilibrium. Thus renouncing the worldly life is not necessary in order to acquire non-dual wisdom.
      This universe is but a state of ignorance. In reality universe is nothing but illusion created out of consciousness. The existent and non-existent of forms, name and things do not lose their inherent nature. The consciousness self-existing, which knows both existence and non-existence, never ceases to be because it is cause of the illusion and it itself is uncaused.
      The nature of the consciousness, which is the true self, is free from mental contents [three states], effortless, immutable, and spotless is neither far way nor near but ever present in all the three states as their formless substance and witness. When the formless substance and witness are one in essence the three states are mere mirage created out of that formless essence.
      The universe exists because of consciousness. The moment the ignorance vanishes the universe with all its contents becomes unreal. Thus realizing the unreal nature of the universe or waking experience in the midst waking experience leads to self-awareness. Self-awareness frees one from experiencing the waking experience as reality. The non-dual silence is found only in self awareness. The people in path of yoga think observing silence in waking experience[duality] is the answer for WHO AM I ? . but that answer is erroneous because the waking experience itself is mere mirage from the ultimate standpoint. thus whatever seen ,known and believed and experienced as a person of the world within the waking experience is bound to be falsehood. the wisdom will not by mere intellectual speculation or arguments but by deeper self-search and sound discrimination through reason based on the true self.

      July 16 at 6:01am ·

    • David Fields you're abusing this site, Santtosh.
      10 hours ago · · 1 person

    • Kip Glenn Lambel You don't have to read every post David Fields
      Personally, if somebody can't point to a state of being with just a few words, or quickly direct attention to 'it', I stop listening

      8 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Dear Kip, I respect your views . deeper self-search revels the fact that, even if one tries to grasp with few words it is impossible to grasp the ultimate truth or Brahman. Until and unless the inborn samsakar or conditioning of 'I' or 'I AM' ,which is deep rooted will not budge. intellectual understating is not realization. one has to remove all mental hindrance ,which is blocking his realization. The ‘I’ OR ‘I AM’ IS CAUSE OF THE INGNORENCE. Thus one has to get rid of the ignorance by overcoming the intoxication of ‘I’ or I AM which intoxication stuff in pursuit of truth is.

      That is why Sri, Sankara says in VivekaChudamani :-
      61. For one who has been bitten by the serpent of Ignorance, the only remedy is the knowledge of Brahman. Of what avail are the Vedas and (other) Scriptures, Mantras (sacred formulae) and medicines to such a one?
      62. A disease does not leave off if one simply utter the name of the medicine, without taking it; (similarly) without direct realisation one cannot be liberated by the mere utterance of the word Brahman.
      63. Without causing the objective universe to vanish and without knowing the truth of the Self, how is one to achieve Liberation by the mere utterance of the word Brahman ? — It would result merely in an effort of speech.
      64. Without killing one’s enemies, and possessing oneself of the splendour of the entire surrounding region, one cannot claim to be an emperor by merely saying, ‘I am an emperor’.
      65. As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a knower of Brahman, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted arguments.
      People who are yearning for spiritual truth will not find it through intellectual speculation and assumption. Intellectual truth is individual truth. Love implies duality and love is individual feelings within the falsehood. Love is necessary and valuable in the stated of ignorance but it is not the means to acquire wisdom. Love is religious tool to lead life in practical world. And Religious truth is individual truth and it is not universal truth because the religion is based on individuality. Advaita sages in the past kept the path to self-awareness a secret hidden with many ad-ons and adulteration. thus by mere playing with ornamental words will satisfies only the ego,which is the false self.

      7 hours ago · · 1 person

    • Mark Hunton Santthosh, maybe you can get a job at Baktipur university as a philosophy teacher, then you would have the undivided attention of your students and they might believe all the crap u keep dishing out.
      7 hours ago ·

    • Mark Hunton Or maybe you should write a book and it may become a best seller!!
      7 hours ago ·

    • Mark Hunton Then you could put on a robe and tell everyone the truth. Good luck with that!!
      7 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar Very kind of you , thank you for your valuable comment. There is neither the body nor the world and nor the people to wish good luck remains as reality when one is aware of what is truth and what is untruth. Only people in ignorance will have such idea of body ,robe and world without realizing their self is naked and it is without their body,ego and experience of the world.
      6 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar Thank you for your suggestion. there is neither any teaching nor a teacher nor a need of any disciple , neither one needs any university to one's own self other than verifying the fact s on his own and sharing the views wih those who are in pursuit of truth.
      6 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar Thank your kind suggestion . When scriptures itself says truth is beyond all the scriptures than what is use of writing books. The ultimate truth is not marketable commodity, it has to be mentally traced,assimilated and grasped.
      6 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Very kind of you for your noble advise. The universe[mind] itself is a illusory robe on the true self[soul] ,which is in the form of consciousness. By getting rid ignorance the illusory nature of the robe will be exposed. Only people who are in ignorance will suggest to others to put on such a robe. And until they remain in ignorance they keep on suggesting others because they do not accept anything other than their accepted truth.

      6 hours ago ·

    • Mark Hunton Dude, get a life or a women.
      4 hours ago ·

    • Pri Ya neti neti ;be salience
      3 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Thank you noble sage very kind of you to say that. The Dude , life and women are made out of single stuff. That single stuff is formless consciousness, which is inner most self, your true identity is without form,time and space. Until ...See More

      3 hours ago ·

    • Pri Ya Santthosh you are a great schooler yet mare intellect is not enough. The mind can be very tricky and by taking 'pride' of "knowing" delude you; if such is the case, you should watch out from this Kali yoga trap in which the teacher=preacher is but the mare mind/ego wanting to be a teacher/guru. You are very kind and well deserved other wise.
      3 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Thank you Pri Ya. Action and inaction both are same, because inaction also is an action. thus keeping silence within the falsehood is not real silence. Restlessness is the nature of the mind or duality. Non-dual silence is the nature of our true self. OSHO said :-Rest in consciousness in commentary of Ashtavakra .Realizing everything is consciousness by realizing consciousness is our true identity silence happens on its own. Realizing our true identity is not the form but formless consciousness will lead one to self awareness or non-dual silence. Neti Neti is possible only from ultimate standpoint and it is not possible within the duality holding the false self as true self.

      3 hours ago ·

    • Pri Ya I know dear man; it is exactly what I tell you; reach the absolute hence neti neti is possible; try and see
      3 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Dear Pri Ya , I respect for your views. thank you for your wisdom. but deeper self -search revels the fact that :- Wherever there is impermanence and transiency, there is necessarily duality. But that which knows these things is passing away, that is the Formless witness/soul.

      The lightning-flash or glimpse of the truth actually eliminates the ego, but it lasts for the minutest fraction of a second only; it is a kind of deep sleep in the midst of waking experience. It is impossible to eliminate ego, since one have to involve in worldly business. One has to eliminate the attachment to ego, by realizing the fact that ‘I’, is not the self, but formless witness/soul is the true self.

      Deeper thinking on the base of the soul leads ultimately to the understanding that there is something behind three states, the Witness itself. That is, there are two factors in thinking, object and the awareness or consciousness which is the thinker of the object. Deeper thinking on the base of the soul leads us to discover this latter factor and in this sense leads us to non-dual truth. Even Reason itself has to go in non-dual reality.

      Seeker has to mentally reduce multiplicity to unity by reducing everything to mind. And by reducing the mind [waking/dream] to soul/spirit he will get non dual wisdom.

      When one wants to know what gold is, he has to mentally to negate the names and forms of necklace, ring or bracelet. This negation is an abstract affair, for the necklace, ring and bracelet still remain, they do not physically disappear. In the same way if one wants to know Atman he has mentally to negate all names and forms of objects within the waking/dream but the objects of waking/dream do not actually disappear, but its unreality is exposed and one becomes aware everything is created out of Atman, therefore everything is Atman. The name and forms create division within the consciousness, which is the soul.

      Every thought as thought is known only by distinguishing it from its opposite. Happiness implies suffering. One must rise above the pairs of opposites, i.e. he must rise above the dualities inherent in thinking into non duality. This is the real meaning of non duality.

      If there are two entities there will be differences between them. If there are two persons, or even individual and God, there will be difference of opinion. Hence truth can only exist in non-duality. Hence the pursuit of truth is to remove wrong ideas about truth from the consciousness and to remove duality from the outlook.

      All such terms as change, non-existence, eternal, etc. imply each other. Hence they are only ideas, mental constructions. Any word used will only be an idea that covers the Atman/soul and does not reveal it. They will only keep people in the realm of discussion although it is quite necessary for practical truths which can never grasp reality; for it yields only thoughts, i.e. duality and is necessarily devoid of reality. All discussions of the nature of the Highest are mere imagination.

      "Duality ceases to exist"--means duality as two separate realities ceases to exist. Duality still exists but the knower knows that they have not got separate existence in Reality, i.e. the duality has not got existence separate from the only ultimate reality . Unless one gets the non dual at truth by inquiry, one has to take it for granted that there is duality. I am not preaching. I am just sharing my views.Kaliyuga is time. time exist where the form and space exists. the form,time and space exist where the mind exists. for,time and space together is mind. the mind is mere mirage from ultimate standpoint. until one verifies what is mind?, what is the substance of the mind ? what is the source of the mind the truth realzation is immposible.

      3 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar There is no need to reach there for those who have realized the fact that their body , ego and their experience of the universe are also consciousness in the midst illusion [waking] . We are speaking within the illusion therefore, all our action , inaction, speech thoughts and words are also are part of that illusion. Whatever exists without the illusion is our true identity without form,time and space.
      3 hours ago ·

    • Pri Ya reach where?
      2 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar Reach where I and you and others and the universe are one in essence. The oneness. When the reality appears this ignorance
      which one thinks as reality becomes unreal.
      — MEHER BABA

      2 hours ago ·

    • Pri Ya You are that; there is no need in coming and going; all is here and now; You are That; rest in it
      about an hour ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Self is not limited to YOU ARE[I AM] alone, because self is not individual It pervades all the three states as their formless substance and witness,which is consciousness. whatever comes and goes is not real but what is aware of the coming and going is apart and eternal. the self is within the three states but it is without the three states. self is apart because it is not and entity or identity within the three states. We have to realize this truth here and now means - we have realize it within the waking experience or duality that the formless substance and witness are one in essence. the essence is formless consciousness ,which is our innermost self. realizing the mind ,which is form of consciousness in the midst of waking experience leads to self-awareness or Sri Ramana Maharshi's state. Thus the SELF IS THAT without I OR I AM.

      about an hour ago ·

    • Kip Glenn Lambel TOO LONG
      DIDN'T READ

      45 minutes ago ·

    • Pavlos Dolatzoglou Hello Santthosh, what people here want to say you is, make sure, that you don´t create a problem with your left hand, what you want to solve with your right hand. The Truth, expressed in concepts, can become a tricky and glamouros god ;o)
      31 minutes ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Dear Kip, there is no need to read if one is chosen, wisdom will come on its own. This subject is vast and it has to be grasped only through deeper self-search.
      Upanishad say:
      This Ataman cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Ataman reveals Its own form. [Katha Upanishad Ch-II -23-P-20]
      Mundaka Upanishad :-
      This Ataman cannot be attained through study of the Vedas, nor through intelligence, nor through much learning. He who chooses Ataman—by him alone is Ataman attained. It is Ataman that reveals to the seeker Its true nature. [ 3 –page-70 Mundaka Upanishad Upanishads by Nikilanada]

      When the Upanishads say:-

      It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Ataman reveals its own form. Then what is the use of indulging through our intelligence or our accumulated knowledge, when one is not chosen by the self, which is the soul, which is in the form of consciousness.

      There is no need for any philosophy in pursuit of truth because they take the seeker nearer to truth but they create more doubts and confusions.

      The scriptures and theories and teaching based on the ego are not the yardstick. Using them as yardstick to understand and assimilate the truth will lead one towards pursuit of arguments. Seeker of truth has to discover on his own, the truth of his true existence by inquiring “what is mind?” and “what is substance of the mind?” and move forward.

      The ultimate truth is one without the second, the one is not in the sense half or two, but the one that remain forever One, without the second. The consciousness is all pervading. There is no place where consciousness is not.
      Consciousness is in everyone, consciousness is in everything .consciousness is one behind many. Consciousness alone is. It means the universe and its contents are the visible form of consciousness. And consciousness in turn is invisible form of the universe, which appears as mind.
      Since people all are not aware of the fact that, they are an experience within another experience [waking/dream]. The mind is an experience, which contains everyone and everything and the universe. Since one limits the mind to the physical entity, he forgets the fact that, his body and the universe is an experience, within waking or dream experience. It is impossible to unfold the mystery of his true existence without realizing the fact that, the self is not physical but the self is consciousness. If the self is not physical then it is erroneous to judge and conclude the truth on the base of the physical self or ego. Thus the truth has to be judges on the base of the true self, which is consciousness which is not an individual but it pervades all the three states as their formless substance and witness. That is why Nisrgadutta said thousands are seeking truth but one in million will realize it.
      All the best in chosen path. The inner guru will direct you till you become aware of what is truth and what is untruth.

      29 minutes ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar Dear Pavlos, Thank you, I am fully aware what is going on. I am just interacting with list- mates. I am not imposing anything on any one. the wisdom will not dawn because I am saying. Pursuit of truth is a very personal journey. Sharing knowledge and thinking deeper without being judgmental and moving ahead in this mental journey leads to self-awareness. No one need to accept what I am saying. I am not teacher . I not teaching. nor i want any one to follow me. OSHO - Sage Ashtavakra and Janak

      Osho : When Ashtavakra was twelve years old, Janak hosted a huge debating conference. Janak was an emperor, and he invited the pundits of the whole country to debate on the scriptures. He had one thousand cows placed at the palace gate and had the horns of the cows plated with gold and decorated with jewels. He proclaimed, ”Whoever is victorious, shall take possession of these cows.”

      It was a great debate. Ashtavakra’s father also participated. As dusk was falling, the message came to Ashtavakra that his father was losing. He had already defeated all the others, but he was about to be defeated by a pundit named Vandin. Receiving this message Ashtavakra went to the palace. The hall was decorated. The debate was in its final stage and the decisive moment was fast approaching. His father’s defeat was a complete forgone conclusion – he was on the very edge of defeat.

      The pundits saw Ashtavakra as he entered the royal court. They were all learned scholars. His body was bent and deformed in eight places: he had just to move and anyone would start laughing. His very movement was a laughing matter. The whole meeting broke into laughter. Ashtavakra also roared with laughter. Janak asked, ”Everyone else is laughing. I can understand why they laugh, but why did you laugh, my son?”

      Ashtavakra said, ”I am laughing because truth is being decided in this conference of butchers” – the man must have been extraordinary. ”What are all these skinners doing here?”

      A deep silence fell over the meeting. Butchers? Skinners? The king asked, ”What do you mean?”

      Ashtavakra said, ”It is simple and straightforward: They only see skin, they don’t see me. It is difficult to find a man more pure and simple than me, but they don’t see this; they see a bent and deformed body. They are skinners, they judge by the skin. Your Majesty, in the curve of a temple is the sky curved? When a pot is smashed, is the sky smashed? The sky is beyond change. My body is twisted, but I am not. Look at the one within. You can’t find anything more straight and pure.”

      It was a very startling declaration. There must have been pin-drop silence. Janak was impressed, astounded: ”Absolutely right, why had he gathered a crowd of skinners there?” He became repentant, he felt guilty that he too had laughed. That day the king couldn’t manage to say anything, but the following day when he was out on his morning ride he saw Ashtavakra on the way. Janak dismounted from his horse and fell at his feet. The day before, in front of everyone, he couldn’t find the courage.

      The day before he had said, ”Why do you laugh, my son?” Ashtavakra was a boy of twelve years, and Janak had considered his age. This day he didn’t notice the age. This day he got down from his horse and fell at Ashtavakra’s feet, spread-eagled in prostration.

      He said, ”Please visit the palace, and satisfy my eagerness for the truth. Oh lord, be so gracious as to come to my home. I have understood! I couldn’t sleep the whole night. You spoke truly: what depth of understanding have those who recognize only the body? They are debating the being, but attraction and repulsion for the body still arise; hate and attraction still arise. They are looking at death while talking of the deathless! I’m blessed that you came and disturbed me, that you broke my sleep. Please come to the palace!”

      Janak had the palace decorated magnificently. He welcomed Ashtavakra and seated him on a golden throne – this twelve year old Ashtavakra. Then he put his questions to him. The first sutra is Janak’s inquiry. Janak asked and Ashtavakra explained. Beyond this, nothing is known about Ashtavakra. And there is no need to know more, it is more than enough! Diamonds are not many; only pebbles and rocks are so common. A single diamond is enough.

      Source: “The Mahageeta, Volume 1” - OSHO