A permanent view of world as unreal can come only after soul centric reasoning; such knowledge cannot change

It is better to know the knower of the mind. With what one knows whether the mind is there or not. Something  other than the mind has to be there  to know, whether the mind is there or not. What is it?

If there is no mind then the whole universe ceases to exist. If the whole universe ceases to exist than the waking experience ceases to exist. Waking experience includes the person and his experience of the world, is non-existent. How can one say the mind and no mind? Therefore it is better to know what is the mind. And what is the substance of the mind? And what is the source of the mind?, to unfold the mystery of the mind or “I’.   

A deeper self - search reveals the fact that: - Mind is in the form of the universe. The universe appears as waking or dream and disappears as deep sleep.  The individual experiences of birth, life, death and the world are within the waking experience.  The dream is a parallel waking experience and waking is parallel dream.

Deeper self-search reveals the fact that,  the, self is neither the waking entity nor the self is the dream entity but the self is formless soul, which witnesses the coming and going of the three states in succession without the physical apparatus.  This has to be mentally grasped and assimilated to realize the formless soul, the innermost   self is nothing to do with the three states. On the standpoint of the three states, the three states are mere illusion.

A permanent view of the world as unreal can come only after soul centric reasoning; such knowledge cannot change. Were the seeker who is sufficiently sharpness he could grasp the unreal nature of the world by soul-centric reasoning alone.  To know the whole truth, one must know the whole universe, otherwise he gets only half-truth. 

 To think once own body and his experience of the world is an illusion is a difficult matter, unless one realizes the self is not physical but it is formless soul it is difficult to have a glimpse of truth.

When one realizes the fact that, the self is not physical but the formless soul, naturally the body and universe becomes an illusion.

The mind (universe) is emanating from the soul (consciousness) means the mind is being effect from consciousness is not different from it. Deeper analysis shows it. Analysis needs deeper thinking and reasoning. The mind is whole universe thus it has a form. But where is the form in consciousness (soul) because consciousness is like an ocean and mind is like a wave.  The universe is same consciousness, as the ocean produces the wave, so the consciousness produces the mind (universe).

The moment one knows the mind (universe) is consciousness, and then there is no ignorance. If one knows consciousness as self then everything is consciousness, the consciousness is second to none.  The mind is consciousness but due to ignorance one mistakes it for something else. One thinks the self is within the body; but the self is without the body and the world.

The mind ceases to exist without the matter. Without the matter mind ceases to exist as mind but it exists as matter- less awareness or consciousness. Without the mind neither the world nor its perceiver can exist.

Without the matter there is no duality. Without duality there is no experience. Without experience it is non-dual reality. Therefore, whatever prevails without the mind is ultimate reality.

The true nature of the soul (consciousness) is camouflaged by the illusion/duality.  To know the truth one has to discover and realize the formless substance of the mind or illusion. One has to learn to view and judge the worldview on the standpoint the formless soul as self.   Self-knowledge is the prime goal of the truth seeker. This goal is hidden within the mind as its invisible substance and witness. Therefore, it is necessary inquiry, analyse and reason in to the nature of mind/ duality/illusion in order to unfold the mystery of mind or duality or illusion.

The so called spiritual laws are mere imagination based on the false self (waking entity or ego)

Nisargadatta Maharaj : - If you seek reality you must set yourself free of all backgrounds, of all cultures, of all patterns of thinking and feeling. Even the idea of being a man or woman, or even human should be discarded.

A multitude of forms and colours are the occurrence of Illusion. Illusion breaks, but the soul, the innermost self is unbreakable, always just as it is.

The entire animate and inanimate creation is all Illusion. The one Supreme God (soul or consciousness) pervades everything inside and out.

Through deeper inquiry into the nature of the mind one can unfold the mystery of the mind.  When wisdom dawns, one gets freedom from experiencing the illusory form, time and space as reality. When one realizes the self is neither the waking entity nor the self is dream entity but the self is the formless soul or consciousness, which witnesses the coming and going of the three states in succession, one can attain liberation.

Swami Vivekananda:_ Space, time, causation are all delusions. It is your disease that you think you are bound and will be free. You are the Unchangeable. Talk not. Sit down and let all things melt away... they are but dreams. There is no differentiation, no distinction; it is all superstition. Therefore be silent and know what you are... You are the essence of Bliss. 

The Spiritual Law belongs to duality.   From the ultimate standpoint the  duaity is mere an  illusion. 

Law of karma holds good only on the base of false physical identity, within the illusory Waking experience. Waking experience is as real as a dream.

When the body is not the ‘self’ than the birth, life and death become a mere illusion. The waking entity is an experience within the waking experience. Thus the waking entity is not the experiencer of the waking experience.  Therefore it is necessary to know the formless witness of the waking experience in order to unfold the mystery behind the dual (waking or dream) and non-dual (deep sleep) experiences. From the ultimate standpoint the theories and laws hold no water because all the theories and laws are part and parcel of the duality. The duality is mere an illusion.  

Therefore it is necessary to realize the fact that, the 'self' is neither the waking entity nor the 'self' is the dream entity but the 'self' is the formless soul, which witnesses the coming and going of the three states.  When the 'self' is not the waking entity then whatever is based on the waking entity is bound to be falsehood because the waking entity is the false self within the false experience. 

The so called spiritual laws are mere imagination based on the false self (waking entity or ego). When the mind itself is a myth, it means the whole Waking experience is a myth, because without the mind the waking experience is non-existent. Thus it is necessary to know how the mind is a myth. And on what base the mind or waking experience is a myth? To unfold the mystery of the existence. 

There is no body, no ego and no experience of the world in the realm of truth because the body and the world are one in essence. That essence is consciousness.

The one who has the firm conviction that, he is an individual separate from the world and world existed prior to him and he is born in it afterwards is egocentric.  And he is unfit to grasp the ultimate truth or Brahman.

The seeker has to trace the source of the mind or universe to realize the fact that, mind and its formless substance and the source are one in essence.  

The truth is hidden within the mind which is in the form of the universe and it requires deeper self-search mental excavation, the removal of the ignorance, which is the cause of experiencing the illusion or duality as reality.

Grasping the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by illusion or waking or universe, is to be attained through soulcentric reasoning, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted egocentric arguments

Taking things for what it is not, leads to non-dual self –awareness.

Non-dual Peace is the true nature of the soul, the innermost self. The soul is present in the form of consciousness.  The restlessness is the nature of the mind, which is present in the form of the universe.   Peace is lost when one admits the second thing, which is the cause of ignorance. Ignorance is the cause of experiencing the duality (waking) as reality.

Consciousness, that which knows or is.  There can be no ignorance in its true nature. Taking things for what it is not, leads to non-dual self –awareness. Just as a dream reality lasts only a short time so with Gnana or non-dual wisdom the delusion of the waking reality disappears. i.e. the universe is seen as no reality but as an illusory appearance.  

All worldly enjoyment depends on the waking experience, which is a second thing; whereas the everlasting happiness is only in non- dual reality.  

If one gets abundant enjoyment by acquiring all kinds of worldly objects than surely he cannot be happy without renouncing all. One need not renounce them for the sake of getting wisdom.  being in the midst of illusion one must know and realize the unreal nature of the waking experience by mentally renouncing the waking experience by holding on to the formless witness of the three states leads to self-awareness. 

There is no practice as such but perfect understanding is needed.   Deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning revel the fact that, the self is not physical but the self is formless consciousness. Therefore, all the accumulated knowledge, experiences and understanding based on physical self (ego or body as Self) are falsehood based on the false self, within the false experience (waking).   Thus, whatever is based on the waking entity is bound to be falsehood because waking experience itself is false hood.   Since many teachers and teachings are based on the false self (ego or body as self) and they consider the false experience (three states) as reality, they are incapable of grasping the witness, which is within the three states, but it is without the three states.

 Thus, the formless knower of the three states has to be grasped mentally and realize the fact that, all the three states, which comes and goes, are mental.  They are impermanent. The formless witness or knower of the three states is permanent and eternal.  Therefore, there is a need to understand “What is Mind?” and “What is the substance of the Mind?” in order to understand and assimilate the non-dual truth.

 For this one has to drop all his accumulate knowledge, which he is using as a yardstick and lands himself in pursuit of argument without reaching anywhere.  One has to think deeper and analyze and verify everything and accept only un-contradictable truth.  Nothing has to be accepted as truth because some great thinker says it or some guru or teacher says without verification.  

Those who lack the intelligence to discriminate between formless witness (subject) and three states (object) will not be able to grasp what is real and what is unreal. Both subject and object are consciousness, not subject alone.

The truth can never change. The nature of truth is, it can never be changed under any circumstances. It may be misrepresented. It must apply to the whole of existence, to the whole of the universe. It is in the object [three states] alone that one has all changes, as deeper analysis points out.

 The subject (formless witness) remains unchanged. The subject (formless witness), as such remains immortal. It can never die for it never changes. The body and the world are an object, and goes, but the subject or the knower of the body and the universe, can never go. The seeker has to take this principle as his guiding thread and non-dual truth becomes easy to grasp. The formless witness can never be subject to the changes of the object; it is unchanged. The mistake usually made is that subject becomes object, or that object is subject. 

As one advances towards spiritual plane he sees the logic underlying experience and becomes more rational. His reasoning is two-fold--implicit and explicit.

Many People adopt the attitude that what   they know is truth and what others say is false. This attitude makes them not to verify anything other then what they know.   One needs to be rational, not merely logical. Logic is has its value only in physical plane.

As one advances towards spiritual plane he sees the logic underlying experience and becomes more rational. His reasoning is two-fold--implicit and explicit.

There is a need of facts of physical proof in scientific invention, whereas in pursuit of truth the proof has to be grasped mentally and realized.  Therefore, the truth is realized only by few who take this mental pursuit.  “Whatever facts revealed, which is un-contradictable has to be accepted as truth.

The truth based on the formless soul or consciousness, the innermost self is worthwhile; without it, one has something else, not truth.  Most people refuse to venture into pursuit of truth; because they do not want to go into the root of things.

Until one gets firm conviction of the ultimate truth he has to constantly reflect on the nature of the true self, till he achieves the equilibrium.  Thus renouncing the worldly life is not necessary in order to acquire non-dual wisdom.

This universe is but a state of ignorance.  In reality universe is nothing but illusion created out of consciousness. The existent and non-existent of forms, name and things do not lose their inherent nature. The consciousness self-existing, which knows both existence and non-existence, never ceases to be because it is cause of the illusion and it itself is uncaused. 

The nature of the consciousness, which is the true self, is free from mental contents (three states), effortless, immutable, and spotless is neither far way nor near but ever present in all the three states as their formless substance and witness. When the formless substance and witness are one in essence the three states are mere mirage created out of that formless essence.

The universe exists because of consciousness. The moment the ignorance vanishes the universe with all its contents becomes unreal. Thus realizing the unreal nature of the universe or waking experience in the midst waking experience leads to self-awareness. Self-awareness frees one from experiencing the waking experience as reality. 

A Gnani does not identify his self with body but he considers the self to be the soul, which is in the form of consciousness.

Religion, yoga and intellectualism are not the means to acquire self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.  Without getting rid of the ignorance and trying to get self-awareness through religion and yoga is like a sleeping man trying to know what he is about, without waking up. As sleep is to waking, so is ordinary life to the state of realization.

It is better to bifurcate religion, mysticism and yoga from spirituality. Since spirituality is based on the formless entity. Religion,mysticism and yoga are based on the physical entity. The religion and its ideology and its theories are true only in experience of duality.

Religion, mysticism and yoga is for the people, who believe their physical entity, as true self, and who accept the experience of duality as reality.

Religion and yoga and concept of god are valuable tools in worldly life. But is not of any use in pursuit of truth.

Since, there are many religious devotees in the this forum and one has to respect their feelings and their individual views and opinions.And their individual experiences and opinions are most valuable to those who are in religious and yogic and mystical paths.

Spirituality is a personal journey,it is not for condemning religion and its idea of god and its saints and sages or their practices.Spirituality is for: to find and realize the truth to overcome the experience of duality.

Since, spirituality is based on the beyond, and it is a journey towards beyond. And the seeker of truth has to reject the untruth, and accept only truth, in the pursuit of truth. And it is no use of mixing religious and yogic ideology.Since, Spiritualists consider non dual truth[self] as a god. And other than the true "Self", the rest is all illusion.

By mixing up religion and spirituality, it neither helps the religious people, nor yogis,nor the truth seekers. Since all are based on the different base of understanding.Mixing anything with spirituality, is like dancing teacher teaching maths, who has no knowledge of maths.

By studying various scriptures one cannot be established in the true self, which is consciousness (soul) unless he drops all accumulated knowledge. Scriptures and yoga are preliminary steps but they are not the means to acquire self-knowledge or non- dual truth.

Getting certainty and irrefutable proof of our true existence without dogmatic assertion and assumption and speculation is the attitude of true seeker. One has to know the self in the truth.

All the study of scriptures and texts and teachings has to be dropped when one becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but self is the soul (consciousness).  One must think of always of the soul (consciousness) the witness of the three states; rather than the three states.    

One may enjoy work or practice meditation but he will still yarn of that which is beyond all imagination ,all thinking and  the objects and  in which all the desire are extinguished.  The subconscious goal of one’s search can only be non-duality. 

Many seekers are unhappy because they exert themselves by running one teacher to another, one scripture to another, one teaching to another and when they don’t find the truth, they are in uncertainty, they are unable to accept anything else as truth, because they are sentimentally and emotionally involved with the teacher or teaching. And they are unable to drop them, and also unable to accept any new truth.  They are interested only which please or attracts them and they do not make an effort to know the higher truth, which requires mental effort to understand and assimilate. They prefer the teachings which are based on imagination because there is no strain of thinking deeply.  

Both Gnani and the ignorant outwardly exerting and acting, the difference is the Gnani is soul- centric and the ignorant is egocentric.  Gnani thinks his body and the world are unreal because he is fully aware they are created out of consciousness.

 The ignorant thinks he is an individual separate from the world, and world existed prior to him, and he is born in the world afterwards. Until he has this conviction he will not be able to assimilate nondual truth.

Activity begets attachment; and abstention from it aversion. The one who is soul –centric is free from pair of opposites, like a child, and is thus established in the consciousness (soul/true self).   The nature of the soul is equilibrium.   The psychology proves that ego comes later in life than birth, thus the child consciousness is free and not at egocentric.

One who is egocentric is attached to the world wants to renounce it in order to avoid the miseries of life. But one who is soul- centric – he is in the world but not of it.

The one who is ego-centric feels even towards liberation and considers even the body as his own he is neither Gnani nor yogi he suffers the physical life as reality. 

Until one forgets all the accumulated knowledge he cannot be established in ultimate truth.

One has to master the self-knowledge by his own thinking, his own experiences through inquiry analysis and reasoning on the true base.

One may learn the doctrines and master them but he will not be able to realize them that is for certain, not hear say.

A Gnani  does not identify his self with body but he considers the self to be the soul, which is in the form of consciousness.

The one who considers his-self as body with the name will not be able to cross the threshold of duality and he keeps experiencing the duality as reality.   Therefore, he refuses to accept the physical existence as illusion because he is in the intoxication of its reality.

When waking entity becomes aware of the fact that, it itself is not the self but the self is the formless soul or consciousness then the reality of the waking drops

Waking is as real as a dream. One has to analyze the three states, not the individual experience happens in the dream and waking. The individual experiences are part of the illusion. Since everyone judges the three states, on base of waking entity, they miss to grasp the non dual truth.

What is it, that witnesses the dream, without the physical body,when the Waking entity or experience, ceases to exist in the dream?

Searching the truth on the base of 'I', as self, is like emptying the ocean drop by drop. Therefore, it is necessary to know What is 'I'? before indulging in pursuit of truth.

The invisible witness of the dream has to be grasped mentally.It needs the sharpness to grasp it. This sharpness comes only through constant inquiry,reasoning and analysis on the true base.

The waking is parallel dream and dream is a parallel Waking experience. If one indulges on the base of theories and keep arguing on the base of false Waking identity, one will not be able to grasp the non dual witness, which is the true self.

The dream and waking both are an object to the self. The self is ever independent and apart from the experience of duality,which is present as dream or waking.

The self is within the experience of dream and waking, as its invisible substance, and it is apart from the waking or dream experience, as its invisible witness.It is apart because it is not an entity or identity within the Waking experience.

Since,most people accept their arrived intellectual theories, based on the physical false self, they are not receptive to accept anything other than their accepted truth.

Only those seekers, who tried all paths practices and tired of intellectual arguments and find it inadequate and useless to quench their spiritual thirst.And if they are sincerely and seriously searching for the ultimate truth, by dropping all their intellectual accumulated dross, will be able to grasp and realize the ultimate truth.

It is necessary for the seeker to try everything and make sure for himself that, they all are inadequate and useless, before indulging in pursuit of non dual truth.

Master of non dual truth, Nirakara said: The truth will not be revealed to those, who base themselves on birth, life and death, which they hold as reality and search the truth of the false physical identity, which is the part of the illusory experience.

All the theories and intellectual arguments will keep one in the clutches of duality, therefore one will not be able to cross the boundaries of duality, and able to go beyond.

It is necessary for the truth seekers make sure, what is truth and what is not truth, to realize the non dual truth and reject the untruth, which is the duality or mind.

It is the same invisible witness who witnesses the dream, witnesses the Waking also. it takes years of mental practice to view and judge the Waking and dream on the standpoint of the invisible witness.

In reality there is neither the witness nor the witnessed exist. Everything is merged and prevail as non dual truth. The ice remains as ice, until it is melted. Likewise the duality remains as duality, until the ultimate truth is realized.

When waking entity becomes aware of the fact that, it itself is not the self but the self is the formless soul or consciousness then the reality of the waking drops.  The soul or consciousness is the formless witness of the coming and going of the three states. The formless witness is also the substance of the three states. Thus in reality the formless witness and substance are one in essence.   In reality all the three states are one in essence. Therefore, the three states are mere mirage created out of consciousness, the innermost self. 

All the doubt has to be got rid of "by the sword of Self -Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.

We are discussing about the formless truth in the realm of untruth (duality).  If we rectify reasoning base form to formless then the words and concepts will become meaningless. To travel from ignorance to wisdom one has to use the words and concepts and as his understanding matures he has to drop them.

Everyone is not in same level of understanding, some are in elementary level and some are in advanced stages. In elementary stages we have to use more words and concepts to make them understand and also to overcome the inherited conditioning, for advanced seekers are sharp enough to understand assimilate the truth with lesser words.      

Spiritual pursuit is a very personal journey. Seeker of truth has to bifurcate everything which is based on the waking entity or ego, (false self), such as religion, god, paths and theories and philosophy.

Seeker of truth should not indulge in condemning religion and yoga or its gurus or gods and its code of conduct. But he has to highlight its fallacy for his own information, which helps him to proceed deeper in investigation.

Seeker of truth has to mingle and discuss with likeminded people but never indulge in arguments about religious doctrines and teachers and teachings and philosophies.

Religion and God and guru glorification and scriptural studies or yoga are not needed in pursuit of truth. Only one must have the intense urge to know the truth and courage to accept the truth and reject the untruth, when un-contradictable truth is revealed through inquiry analysis and reasoning.

Yoga Vasishtha :- "Teachers, interpretations of sacred texts, the force of religious merit--none of these lead to the realization of that Ultimate Truth which is revealed in the clear reflection of the heart, engendered from contact with the good."

A receptive mind free from religious and yogic or any sort of knowledge based on the ego is very much necessary to acquire the non-dual wisdom.

All the accumulated knowledge from religion and yoga and paths and theories are mere dross in pursuit of truth. Religion and yoga are helpful for the mass and the society but they are barricade in unfolding the mystery of the mind.

When the ultimate truth is rightly known and one attains eternal life thereby. Through soul, the innermost self he gains strength and through its knowledge immortality.

 Not by intellectual   speculation but only by an awakening to the reality of his true existence he gets soulcentric vision. Soul, the innermost self’s nature is like state of deep sleep.

Religion, yoga and intellectualism are not the means to acquire Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.  Without getting rid of the ignorance and trying to get self-awareness through religion and yoga is like a sleeping man trying to know what he is about, without waking up. As sleep is to waking, so is ordinary life to the state of realization.

Sri, Sankara says: one must first know what is before him. If he cannot know that, what else can he know or understand? If he gives up the external world in his inquiry, he cannot get the whole truth.

[63. Without causing the objective universe to vanish and without knowing the truth of the Self, how is one to achieve Liberation by the mere utterance of the word Brahman? — It would result merely in an effort of speech.( Sri, Sankara says in Viveka Chudamani )

Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. (And after they have reigned they will rest)

When the seeker indulges in deeper self-search becomes aware of the fact that, the experience of birth, life, death and the world are mere illusion created out of spirit, he  will be in fear of losing their physical identity  and the experience of the world which  he dearly attached.   But gradually his conviction grows about the innermost self the mid becomes still and rests in consciousness, the innermost self, which is god or Christ. 

Meher Baba said: - give no importance to creed, dogma, caste or the performance of religious ceremonies and rites. 


 Sri, Sankara says in Viveka Chudamani indicated that:-

56. Neither by Yoga, nor by Sankhya, nor by work, nor by learning, but by the realisation of one's identity with Brahman is Liberation possible, and by no other means.

58. Loud speech consisting of a shower of words, the skill in expounding the Scriptures, and likewise erudition - these merely bring on a little personal enjoyment to the scholar, but are no good for Liberation.

59. The study of the Scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known.

60. The Scriptures consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely causes the mind to ramble. Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of the Self.

61. For one who has been bitten by the serpent of Ignorance, the only remedy is the knowledge of Brahman. Of what avail are the Vedas and (other) Scriptures, Mantras (sacred formulae) and medicines to such a one?

62. A disease does not leave off if one simply utter the name of the medicine, without taking it; (similarly) without direct realisation one cannot be liberated by the mere utterance of the word Brahman.

63. Without causing the objective universe to vanish and without knowing the truth of the Self, how is one to achieve Liberation by the mere utterance of the word Brahman? — It would result merely in an effort of speech.

64. Without killing one’s enemies, and possessing oneself of the splendour of the entire surrounding region, one cannot claim to be an emperor by merely saying, ‘I am an emperor’.

65. As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a knower of Brahman, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted arguments.

66. Therefore the wise should, as in the case of disease and the like, personally strive by all the means in their power to be free from the bondage of repeated births and deaths.

Sri Sankara clearly indicated that: - yoga, intellectualism, scriptural mastery is not the means to self-knowledge.  But by the realisation of one's identity with consciousness, which is ultimate truth or Brahman, freedom from experiencing the illusion as reality is possible, and by no other means.

Seeker of truth has to get rid of his doubts and confusions through deeper self-search on his own, to realize the fact that, the self is not the form but self is formless. Thus his analysis and reasoning has to be based on the formless not on the form.  By simply go on believing and accepting whatever said by the punditry will not lead one towards path of wisdom. All the doubt has to be got rid of "by the sword of Self -Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana."  The scriptures, yoga are not necessary if one follows the inner (formless) path.  Religion and yoga are not the means to path of wisdom.