Tuesday, March 26, 2013

Adyathmic Discussion--370

You have to speak about them individually, not assume all are the same.
Papaji who was teacher of Mooji. ?

Nisagaddatta ? Ganganji Adyashanti. Eckart Tolle.
Leonard Jacobson. Sailor Bob Adamson. Krishnamurti.
Ramana Maharishi. Alan Watts Paramansa Yogananda
Sai Baba of Shirdi Take a look at them all.
which one is deluded in duality using "I" thought.? Explain one sentence or paragraph of their words that makes you make this wide statement about Gurus.
SK: -  Whoever holds 'I' as a thought then they have realized only half truth. The 'I' is an experience.  Experience is prior to the thought. Without the waking experience who gets these thoughts

Thoughts arise to the person within the waking or dream. Thinker is the form. Without the form the thinking is impossibility. Thus thinker and the thoughts are part of the known. The witness of the knower and the known including the world is formless soul.
Thoughts and thinker are present only when the world is present. The world is present only when the waking experience is present. Waking experience is mere illusion from ultimate standpoint. If the waking experience is mere illusion then the thought, thinker and the world are mere illusion. 
Thought, thinker and the world are nothing to do with the formless witness. The witness is that witnesses the thoughts, the thinker and the world together. The thoughts, thinker and the world are one in essence. And also the three states are one in essence. That essence is consciousness. The consciousness (soul) is the innermost self. The consciousness is the ultimate reality or Brahman or God.

Without the form,time and space the thought will no rise. the form, time and space are present only when the waking experience is present. hence the experience is prior to thought. thus holding some guru or some teaching as a yardstick is the greatest hindrance in pursuit of truth. everything has to verified before accepting as truth.   

That is why Buddha said : Believe nothing because a wise man said it, Believe nothing because it is generally held. Believe nothing because it is written. Believe nothing because it is said to be divine. Believe nothing because someone else said it. But believe only what you yourself judge to be true
The Advaita taught by Sage Sri Sankara is a rigorous, absolute one. According to Sage Sri Sankara, whatever is, is Brahman. Brahman Itself is absolutely homogeneous. All difference and plurality are illusory

 The individuality is reality within the falsehood. All these great people existed or existing within the duality (universe). The duality is present in the form of 'I'. The duality is mere an illusion from the ultimate standpoint. The individuality names and forms are reality within the unreality (duality). The unreality (duality) is created out of single stuff. That single stuff is consciousness (spirit). Thus what is the use of taking about the unreality while we are seeking reality? The seeker aim is to realizing the ultimate truth. It is no use of discussing the unimportant subject in Atmic discussion. 
 Limiting the 'I' to the  thought  is limiting  the 'I' to the form. Limiting the 'I' to the form is limiting the 'I' individuality. Limiting the 'I' to  the individuality is causing the separation between form,time and space. separation is cause of experiencing the illusion as reality. The seeker has to realize the fact that,  in reality   the form,time and space are one in essence. thus 'i' is cause of ignorence and ignorance  is cause of separation.  
Many people are not even aware what is Atman; though knowing of it, many do not comprehend. Only few expound the knowledge of Atman and very rare assimilate and realize it.  It is all because of their inherited religious and social background and grooming.
There is a need to dismantle the inherited physical structure mentally to overcome the duality. The whole physical structure is built on the foundation of the ‘I’. Since they think the ‘I’ as Atman/self, it becomes difficult to grasp and assimilate and realize the non-dualistic  truth.
The ‘I’, appears and disappears as mind (waking/dream) is impermanent, hence it is not the self. The formless knower of the ‘I’ (waking/dream) is the true self. Since people think whatever is propagated by the guru/yogi as ultimate truth and blindly accept it as truth, without verifying the validity of their preaching. This blind acceptance becomes a big hindrance in pursuit of truth. If one is seeking truth, one has to verify the validity of any claim through inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the true base, and accept only un -contradictable truth.
Self-knowledge when taught by an unqualified person is not easily comprehended, because it is diversely regarded by disputants. But when it is taught by him who has become one with Atman, there can remain no more doubt about It. Atman is subtler than the subtlest and not to be known through argument.
Self- Knowledge cannot be attained by reasoning based on the ‘I’ (physical based). Atman becomes easy of comprehension, when taught by another. One has to attain self- Knowledge right now in this very life not in next world or next life.
Gnani, by means of concentration on the true Self, realizes that ancient, effulgent hidden and which dwells and pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states as its formless substance and witness.
The knowing the true Self is not born; It does not die. It has not sprung from anything; nothing has sprung from It. Birthless, eternal, everlasting and ancient, it is not killed when the body is killed or when the world disappears.  If the murderer thinks he kills and if the killed man thinks he is killed, neither of these apprehends aright. The Self kills not, nor is it killed.
Atman exists in smaller than the small, greater than the great, and is hidden in the three states as its formless substance and witness. A man who is free from viewing and judging the worldview on the base of ‘I’ beholds the Self through tranquility and becomes free from experiencing the duality as reality.
Gnani, having realized Atman as dwelling within impermanent states is bodiless, pervades the three states as its formless substance and witness and permanent and eternal.
Self-knowledge cannot be acquired by the study of the scriptures, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Atman reveals its own form.
He who has not rectified his seeking base from the ‘I’(form) base to soul(formless) base , who does not have the intense urge to know the non-dualistic or Advaitic  truth and who is not tranquil and subdued and whose mind is not receptive , cannot acquire Self-Knowledge . It is realized only through inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the true base. 

Exploring if an outside observer can, in all cases, determine if a person is Enlightened or not, the venerated Indian Sanyasin, Sage Sri Sankara (788-820), in his work The Crest Jewel of Discrimination (1) or as it is sometimes known, Viveka Chudamani (2), states that the Knower of the Atman (i.e., a person Awakened to the Absolute, Enlightened) "bears no outward mark of a holy man" (Stanza 539). Continuing, although there are variances found in the actual wording between various translators and translations the gist behind the words remains the same, Sage Sri, Sankara writes: - “Sometimes he appears to be a Fool, sometimes a wise man. Sometimes he seems splendid as a king, sometimes feeble-minded. Sometimes he is calm and silent. Sometimes he draws men to him. Sometimes people honour him greatly, sometimes they insult him. Sometimes they ignore him.