Sunday, March 31, 2013

Adyathmic Discussion--381 (reincarnation)

Trev Light Bown:-  I was reading your latest post, when the subject of reincarnation arose in my mind. The evidence of near death experience and afterlife testimony is to vast a subject to just right off as illusion even though it is just that. But if it is then what if anything actually reincarnates. Then I saw this on Ramana Maharishi Site.

"Bhagavan on Reincarnation (Surpassing Love And Grace)

The real Self is continuous and unaffected. The reincarnating ego belongs to a lower plane, that of thought. It is transcended by Self-realization. Reincarnations are due to a spurious offshoot of Being and are therefore denied by the Buddhists. The human state is due to the mingling of the sentient with the insentient. Read the article ».

So there you have it. Just as I had figured out myself I see the confirmation.
The spirit that passes over and experiences an afterlife then reincarnates is none other than "I"
false sense ego.

So the belief they hold will shape their after life experience and the hidden dark recesses of mind will manifest in life revision. Yet as Jesus says "My Fathers house has many mansions", these are levels of consciousness by lighter or more dense vibration as spiritualists have always stated.
So the mind/ego as spirit is what leaves the body at death, non the wiser than he was in the midst of life. At this point there may be void and peace beyond understanding as an uninterested observing witness. But most near death testimony then branches out with myriad belief systems that will end in the light at the end of the tunnel.

At this point is the true test of a Gnani.

SK: - The self is birthless therefore it is deathless. The one which is born lives and dies within the world (waking) is not the self.  The idea of reincarnation is based on the birth entity (waking entity or ego) which lives and dies within the illusory world (waking).   The self is the one which witnesses the coming and going of the dual (waking or dream) non-dual (deep sleep) experiences. When the experience of the birth, life and death takes place in the illusion then recantation also is part of the same illusion. 

The dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. Similarly the waking becomes unreal when wisdom dawns. Wisdom dawns when the soul, innermost self, consciously remains awake in its formless non-dual nature.  when the substance and witness of the three states are one in essence and that essence is consciousness. Then what value is there for the universe in, which the experience of birth, life death and reincarnation happens. Even you take reincarnation as reality but the reincarnation happen within the world, which is an illusion, on the standpoint of the formless soul, the innermost self.  On the standpoint of the innermost self. Without perfect understanding of what is what Self-knowledge is an impossibility. 'I based knowledge is false knowledge. trying to test  the truth on the base of false self and passing judgment is an err.   

 Dalai Lama said:-  Buddhism need not to be the best religion though it is most scientific and religion and inquisitive. But Buddhism has no answer to certain questions like existence of Atama [soul] and rebirth.   Dali lama said that as an individual he believes in rebirth as he had come across a few cases of rebirth.  Modern science, Dalai Lama hoped would unearth the mystery behind the rebirth. (In DH –dec-212009-Gulburga).

INNER PATH –BLOG--People who are caught up with idea of reincarnation and rebirth theories are not qualified for Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana because they accepted duality as reality

People who believes in reincarnation and rebirth theories are unaware of the fact that , their belief is based on   waking entity, which is the false self within the false experience. The waking entity itself is false self within the false experience, it means the present experience of birth, life, death and the world is falsehood.  Thus whatever is seen, known, believed and experienced as waking entity is bound to be falsehood because the soul or consciousness the innermost self is birthless because it is formless. Therefore the rebirth and reincarnation theory based on the false self is bound to be falsehood. 

Accepting in rebirth and reincarnation theory as reality is accepting false self(waking entity or ego)  as real self and false experience(waking) as reality. Self-realization is impossibility  if one accepts the present waking entity as real self because the self is neither the waking entity nor the self is dream entity but the self is formless soul ,which  witnesses  the coming and going  of the  three states without the physical apparatus

 The three states are impermanent but the soul or consciousness, which is the witness of the three states, is permanent and eternal.  in reality the three states are one in essence. and that essence is consciousness. Therefore there is no second thing exists other than consciousness.  Thus consciousness (Soul) is second to none.

Deeper self -search reveals the fact that, the waking experiences itself is illusion. It means the present experience of birth, life, death and the world are illusion. Thus the reincarnation theory based on the false self within the false experience is bound to be falsehood. When the waking entity is not the self than whatever theories is based on the waking entity imagined theory. 

 This imagined theory based on the waking entity or ego is for those lower minds set who are incapable of grasping the ultimate truth or Brahman.

People who are caught up with idea of reincarnation and rebirth theories are not qualified  for Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana because they accepted duality as reality . Birth implies duality and duality is falsehood from the ultimate standpoint.
From The Teachings of Sri Ramana Maharishi
Edited by David Godman:-

Question:- is reincarnation true?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: - Reincarnation exists only so long as there is ignorance. There is really no reincarnation at all, either now or before. Nor will there be any hereafter. This is the truth.

[Note: Comments by David Godman: Most religions have constructed elaborate theories which purport to explain what happens to the individual soul after the death of the body. Some claim that the soul goes to heaven or hell while others claim that it is reincarnated in a new body.

Sri Ramana Maharshi taught that all such theories are based on the false assumption that the individual self or soul is real; once this illusion is seen through, the whole superstructure of after-life theories collapses. From the standpoint of the Self, there is no birth or death, no heaven or hell, and no reincarnation.

As a concession to those who were unable to assimilate the implications of this truth, Sri Ramana would sometimes admit that reincarnation existed. In replying to such people he would say that if one imagined that the individual self was real, then that imaginary self would persist after death and that eventually it would identify with a new body and a new life. The whole process, he said, is sustained by the tendency of the mind to identify itself with a body. Once the limiting illusion of mind is transcended, identification with the body ceases, and all theories about death and reincarnation are found to be inapplicable.]