Tuesday, August 6, 2013

When one unconsciously reaches the goal it is called physical death***





From Theresa:~
 
Dear santthosh/, dear Phil,


I just read all your contributions to the group, and I want to thank you for this. It is really inspiring and entertaining, and I recognize a subtle "I know more than you, I know how it is right" tendency.

To me it sounds a little like a guru discussion. And I very much appreciate this; it really is like the spice in the soup for this group, thank you very much. I agree on some points with santthosh, I agree on some points with Phil.

I have some questions for you both and hope I am blessed with your answers.

1. What causes seeking?

2. When will the seeking end/ how long is the search and when do I find out that the search is finished?

3. What is mind?

4. What is thought and where does it come from/ how is it generated?

5. Why should we seek for truth?

6. If the seeker is the sought then why search?

7. How to have the direct experience of truth?

8. it said "the atman/Brahman/ absolute is everything", does it mean the search for it already happens in atman and isn't it than just a game made up by the mind whose characteristic it is to seek/crave/improve/ get somewhere?

9. "there is no purpose to life" you say, but on the other hand it seems you say seeking/ realizing the truth is the core of being, so isn't this a purpose?

10. it does not matter if we search or not, if we realize the truth or not, the eternal self is and remains untouched, because seeking happens within duality, within the realm of mind and thought and absolute truth is beyond that - true?

And, I cannot find anything bad with duality. Without duality, non- duality could not be experienced. without the effort and strivings (in duality) of the mind and the ultimate falling away of the search it could not be realized that that what we have been searching for was
already that which we have been searching from and it has already always been so and will always be, and is. All this seeking is like saying:~ truth, love, the self cannot be here now, it must be somewhere else, some day in the future, in the Himalayas, in the scriptures, somewhere hidden in my mind or whatever concept about realizing the self or enlightenment we might have etc. it is called the SELF, where else can it be than what are you?
 
Even "the seeker", another form of ego/separate imagined self, even though it is a great imagined self which acknowledges that he does not know anything and therefore seeks to awaken from his ignorance, has to disappear so self might be revealed. and still somehow it seems that this seeker has to appear to try it all to come to a point where he sees that he will never "arrive" there, he cannot, for he himself is a mind construct, that covers the sun like our own fingernail held before the (inner) eye.

on the other hand his the search so filled with joy, blissful moments, glimpses of "knowledge" and insights, spiritual experience (spiritual candy as my guru put it), moments where "you" think you know it all and now can go and teach others, "you" have discovered something which no one else has, you are special because you are spiritual etc., there are valley and peak experiences and it is juicy and full of drama and aliveness this search and some people seem as if they don't want to come out of the search ever. Some even seem to think being human means to seek forever. But a search has a goal, even though the mind cannot conceive of this goal. it is the end of the mind, the empty silent mind that is needed so the self can realize itself.

Mind and duality are needed, it is not an enemy to the self. Without the body mind truth cannot experience itself in the form and therefore realize itself.

Wishing you all a wonderful day.

Theresa



Posted
My reply

Dear Theresa,

Thank you for your letter. At the same time I say please do not count me among those, who say I know more, and I know how it is right. I do not have that attitude and that tendency. I just shared my view points. I know Phil, and we interacted in another forum. Mr. Phil is a great thinker and great master, and he is a greatest asset to the spiritual world. I admire and respect him. It is foolishness to claim that I know more and better than Phil. Please do not count me in that category; I am not in that rat race. I do not claim myself to be a master, teacher or guru. I am just what I am. I avoid being in such rate race.

I do not like to add spice in the soup, it is better to have soup as it is, without add-ons to it, to get a real hang of it. Whether you agree or not the truth remains as truth.

In my experience, Seeker will find answers for all his questions when he drops viewing and judging on standpoint of his accumulated knowledge and receptive to receive self-knowledge.  Intellectual discussion based on egocentric (physical based) theories will not lead the seeker anywhere, and it is a waste of time and effort because it will not yield any fruits. 

If one knows the true self, then, he will realize the fact that he and his world are part of the illusion, on the standpoint of the true self.  There is neither seeker nor seeking nor duality in reality. The whole experience of duality (mind) is illusion. And the substance of the mind is formless and nondual in its nature and that substance itself is the true self or Atman.

1. What causes seeking?



ANS: Ignorance of the true self causes the seeking.

2. When will the seeking end/ how long is the search and when do I find out that the search is finished?


ANS: When the ignorance is overcome the seeking ends. As long as the ignorance is there the search continues

3. What is mind?

ANS: Mind is objective awareness

4. What is thought and where does it come from/ how is it generated?

ANS: Thoughts are present only when there is objective awareness is there. Absent of objective awareness is absent of thoughts and experience. Therefore,it is erroneous to find the source of the thought, because without the objective awareness the thoughts and experience cease to exist. Only people, who think the physical body as self, try to search the source of the thought. Seeking truth on the physical body as self itself is erroneous. The source of objective awareness is the true self or Atman.

5. Why should we seek for truth?

ANS: To overcome the ignorance of the reality of the true existence.

6. If the seeker is the sought then why search?

ANS: The seeker exists until he experiences the illusion (duality) as reality. When wisdom dawns the duality becomes unreal. Same way as the dream becomes unreal, when the waking takes place. When the wisdom dawns then the seeker and his experience ceases to exist as reality. Therefore he realizes the fact that there is neither the seeker nor seeking in reality, on the standpoint of the true self (Atman).


7. How to have the direct experience of truth?


ANS: When man is not the author of his own experience, how can man claim authorship of the direct experience which is not his own experience. 



8. it is said "the atman/brahman/ absolute is everything", does it mean the search for it 


 already happens in atman and isn't it then just a  
game made up by the mind whose characteristic it is to 
seek/crave/improve/ get somewhere



ANS: to understand this seeker has to learn to view and judge the worldview on the base of Ataman as self. If seeker clings to an idea or theory as the inalterable truth, then the truth does come in person and knock at his door, he will not be able to open the door and accept it. As long as he has not realized the Ataman that permeates all, it is essential to be receptive and verify after studying the full subject what I say. Seeker of truth should not hold to the intellectual understanding from other sources and mix it -up and make a hotchpotch of it; he has to focus his attention the root of the objective awareness which is Ataman, and realize the objective awareness is mere illusion.




9. "there is no purpose to life" you say, but on the other hand it seems you say seeking / realizing the truth is the core of being , so it is not this purpose?  


ANS: one feels there is the purpose of life only when he is ignorant of the true self, and views and judges the worldview on the base of the false self (I).  On the base of the true self birth, life and death are mere illusion. Therefore,purpose of life is a reality only when one accepts the duality as reality.


10. it does not matter if we search or not, if we realize the truth or not, the eternal self is and remains untouched, because seeking happens within the duality , within the realm of the mind and thought and absolute truth is beyond that true?



ANS: until one thinks the eternal self is apart and the world is apart he will remain in the realm of duality experiencing as reality.  The duality and mind is one and the same thing. The experience is prior to thought. Without the experience of duality man and his world ceases to exist. Without the man the thought will not arise. It is foolish venture to search the truth on the thought which arises with in the mind or experience of duality. Therefore without understanding the full subject if one hangs on his own theory and idea of truth he will remain in the realm of falsehood or mind until it disappears on its own.

11. I cannot find anything bad with duality. Without duality, non-duality could not be experienced. 



ANS :The duality is neither good nor bad, duality is falsehood or illusion. The false hood is created out of the real. Without the non-duality (real) duality (unreal) ceases to exist. Until one becomes aware of the fact that he is not the author of his own experience the duality will prevail as reality 





12. Without the effort and strivings (in duality) of the mind and the ultimate falling away of the search it could not be realized that that what we have been searching for was already that which we have been searching from and it has already always been so and will always be, and is. all this seeking is like saying: truth, love, the self cannot be here now, it must be somewhere else, some day in the future, in the Himalayas, in the scriptures, somewhere hidden in my mind or whatever concept about realizing the self/enlightenment we might have etc. it is called the SELF, where else can it be than what you are?



ANS:-All the effort and strivings are happening within the falsehood (duality) the truth cannot be grasped on the base of false entity. Deeper inquiry and reasoning reveals the fact that neither the physical body nor the ‘I’ is the true self then why to seek the truth on the false entity (I or physical body as self). Rectifying the seeking base is very much necessary to discover, assimilate and realize the true self. This is possible only when the seeker is ready to learn to seek truth on the true base and ready to learn to view and judge the worldview on the true base without any argument and theorizing everything on his own point of view. 





Even "the seeker", another form of ego/separate imagined self, even though  it is great imagined self who acknowledges that he does not know anything and therefore seeks to awaken from his ignorance, has to disappear so self might be   revealed. and still somehow it seems that this seeker has to appear to try it all to come to a point where he  sees that he will never " arrive " there, he cannot , for he himself  is a mind construct , that covers the sun like our own fingernail held before the inner eye. 





ANS:- All this doubts, and confusion will prevail until seeker thinks the physical body or ‘I’ as a self.  Therefore,it is necessary to understand burning all the physical based accumulated dross and seek the truth on the base of true self. Then only it is possible to assimilate the nondual truth.



On the other hand his the search so filled with joy, blissful moments, glimpses of "knowledge" and insights, spiritual experience (spiritual candy as my guru put it) ,




ANS: All those blissful moment are reality within the duality. For the realized mind the pain and pleasure are part of the illusion. The one which witnesses the duality (birth, life and death or pain or pleasure) is unaffected. The true self is within the duality as its formless substance. And it is apart from duality, as its formless witness. It is apart because it is not and entity or identity within the duality, because it is formless and nondual in its nature.


Moments where "you" think you know it all and now can go and teach others, "you" have discovered something which no one else has, you are special because you are spiritual etc., there are valley and peak experiences and it is juicy and full of drama and aliveness this search and some people seem as if they don't want to come out of the search ever.

ANS: The drama itself is duality, everything is happening within the duality. The individual experience within the duality is as a real as  a dream. The one which witnesses the dream witnesses the waking also as whole. Whatever is happening within the waking also  is a  false hood.  The  soul,which is the formless witness of the waking and dream is the ultimate truth which  Sage Sri, Sankara called it as BRAMHAN.

All the seeking is happening within the  duality, and there is no teaching, no teacher no disciple no universe in realm of nondualistic or Advaitic  truth. Truth is not individual property it is universal. No one is special; everyone is heading towards that nondual goal consciously or unconsciously. When one unconsciously reaches the goal it is called physical death. When consciously realizes in the midst of the experience of duality it is called nondualistic or Advaitic  wisdom.


Some even seem to think being human means to seek forever. But a search has a goal, even though the mind cannot conceive of this goal. It is the end of the  mind, the empty silent mind that is needed so the self can realize itself. Mind and duality is needed, it is not an enemy to the self. Without the body mind truth cannot experience itself the in form and therefore realize itself.



ANS: Until and unless the seeker becomes aware of the soul , the innermost self and learns to view and judge  the worldview on the base of the soul, the innermost self,  than he is bound to view and judge the worldview on the  ego,which is the false self, and permanently remain in confusion as per his  idea and  deep rooted conviction.   Once he learns to view and judge on the true base, all clouds of doubts and confusion will start clearing. Since, many refuse to verify the facts other then their accepted truth they will remain prisoners of their own accepted truth.

 In the realm of truth I, you, others and the universe are mere illusion. And the illusion is created out of  a single substance which is consciousness(soul). Thus there is no second thing other then Ataman in the experience of diversity, hence it is nondual

Choosing the path



The people, who are in the mystical path, will like religion and scriptures. The people, who are searching to experience of bliss, will like yoga. The people, who are seeking truth, will chose  the path of wisdom. Every path is very valuable in its own way to its seekers.  Thus, it is necessary not to compare the teachings with one another.



The general discussion will help the seekers, to acquire higher knowledge. Buddha rejected the religion, scriptures and concept of god, when he found them; they are inadequate and useless, in pursuit of truth. Same way seeker of truth has to reject everything, which is  an obstacle  to realizing the nondualistic or Advatic truth, where there is no place for all our physical based accumulated knowledge.


Love
Santthosh