Atman (soul) is the innermost self. ‘I’ is not Atman. holding 'I' as self is holding the falsehood as reality***

Atman (soul) is the innermost self. ‘I’ is not Atman. holding 'I' as the self is holding the falsehood as reality.  There is a need to know what is ‘I’ before indulging in the pursuit of truth. 

Dualist sages including many sages and thinkers could not distinguish between ‘I’ and ‘formless witness.’ The 'I' was the witness. Their highest was the Jiva. One is so much attached to the 'I',   and he does not want to think that 'I' does not exist. Again one is unable to detach the ‘I’ from the Real witness.

The dualist object:~ If everything else is false then   the statement I am   Brahman is itself false, the but when one says non-duality is false, there must be the awareness, consciousness, behind the very statement. You will also go, die. One has to rely upon that which is permanent.  Formless witness of the ‘I’ alone is permanent. Anything that one says is a witnessed (waking), but there is the formless witness (consciousness) there before any statement could be made.

They mean the body by “I", but it is the formless witness which is the real “self ". Theists dualists did not, or could not analyze further than ‘I’   on this point,  because they thought the ‘I’ without the body as self.

WHAT IS ‘I’?

The ‘I’ disappears as deep sleep, so what is the use of being attached to it? It is impermanent and illusory.

There is really no ‘I’ which in the form of mind. And mind is in the form of the universe. And universe   appears as waking or dream. The ‘I’ or mind or universe or waking or dream dies disappears as deep sleep.  Thus, one that appears as ‘I’ or mind or universe or waking or dream is consciousness and it disappears as deep sleep is also consciousness.  In deep sleep it is in its formless nondual true nature.  The one, which witnesses the coming and going of the three states, is also consciousness.   Thus, the witness and witnessed are one in essence.   

Thus, the    universe is reality on the base of individuality and universe is unreal on the base of the consciousness, which is the innermost self. The seeker gradually will grasp and realize the unreal nature of the universe or mind. Individuality is illusory because the self is not an individual because self is formless and it pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states. .

Dualist’ sages have written big volumes about the soul. Yet they are quite ignorant of the fact that the ‘I’ about which they write itself comes and goes and has no permanent existence, is only an idea after all.

Bible says:~  “God is a Spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth (John 4:24)”,

Yazur Veda also says:~  “Nathasya prathima asityasya nammahastha (32.3)”, God has no image and His name is Holy.

Mythreyi Upanishad 2:26 says:~  “Pashanalogamani moonmayavigrahashi pooja punarjanana bohahari mumusho tasmatati: swahdayarja nameva kuyarta hayacharam parihareta punarbhavaya”, all those who desire to have salvation without taking several births, should worship God in spirit and truth. 

Swami Vivekananda:~ The Higher your ideal is, the more miserable you are,' for such a thing as an ideal cannot be attained in the world — or in this life, even. He who wants perfection in the world is a madman — for it cannot be. How can you find the infinite in the finite?

Ignorants   mean the body by “I", but it is the formless witness which is the real “self ". Theists dualists did not, or could not analyze further than ‘I’   on this point because they thought the ‘I’ without the body as self.

 He who knows the formless witness of the three states as self, knows it is distinct from cause and effect. If one knows the meaning of causality, no karma will affect him. If one thinks that self is   untouched by cause and effect, then they don't affect him,  because he is not the self.

The Self is quite unconnected with the  causes and effects, because it is the mother of all causes, but it itself is uncaused. . The waking entity has to be left behind; the soul is something unconnected with the waking entity and the waking world. Then the thought of cause and effect is left with the whole waking experience. 

The dualist object: ~ If everything else is false then   the statement I am   Brahman is itself false, the but when one says nonduality is false, there must be the awareness, consciousness, behind the very statement. You will also go, die. One has to rely upon that which is permanent.  Formless witness of the ‘I’ alone is permanent. Anything that one says is a witnessed (waking), but there is the formless witness (consciousness) there before any statement could be made.

One knows of no changes in the consciousness; he knows only the changes in what is perceived by the consciousness. When one realize the nature of consciousness he knows the Real can never change, hence never die. Birth, life, Death and the world are reality   only in the region of the "duality."  The duality is an object to the formless subject.

That of which one is aware and which is nearer to him is the formless witness, which is the innermost self. Yet no statement can be made about it. All words will concern ideas about it, i.e. witnessed ~never the formless witness.

Without the individual self or ego one could never think. Through such thinking one is able to prove the existence of Atman, for the individual is finally identical with the Atman because the individual and experience of the world is created out of Atman which is in the form of consciousness. 

If the unchanging had also been changing, then the fact of change would never be perceptible to us. The formless witness or consciousness never alters and is thus the true witness.

The formless witness or consciousness is immortal because it is formless awareness.  One sees changes always within waking or dream. One never sees it in formless witness because he never sees formless witness. Thus, mortality cannot be ascribed to  the formless witness as we do to the  witnessed.

Adyathmic Discussion-361 ( I is not the self)

When self is neither the waking entity (ego) nor 'I' than 'WHO AM 'I'? Inquiry will not yield the full truth because it yields only fallacy of the form, not time and space.

When one realizes the self is not ‘I’ but the self is the formless substance and the witness of the ‘I’, he is freed from the attachment to results and then whatever he does it detached work. Similarly, when he recognizes that consciousness is everywhere and in everything in all the three states than that very recognition leads to a total dissolution of the ignorance and leads to nondual self-awareness. 

What is the use of WHO AM I? , inquiry when ‘I’ itself is an illusion. --FORMLESS PATH

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  Trev Light Bown But what if the "I" you refer to is not the "I" all the sages refer to.

  "I Am that I Am" has nothing to do with the mind made "me" false sense of "I".

  But you will repeat this untruth until the sheep blah "moo".

  4 hours ago · Like
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  Santthosh Kumaar Till you hold ‘I’ as self, you will never be able to acquire Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. You are the waking entity (ego). You are the false self (ego) within the false experience (waking). The dream entity and dream world are reality within the dream. Similarly the waking entity and waking world are reality within the waking. The dream become unreal when waking takes place. Similarly the waking becomes unreal when waking entity becomes aware of the fact that, it itself is not the self. If the waking entity is not the self than the waking experience is bound to be falsehood. You are part of the waking experience thus you are part of the illusion. 

  
  

  Just because you believe in some spiritual teaching because they hold ‘I’ as self:- 

  
  

  1. It is repeatedly recited,

  2. It is written in a scripture,

  3. It was handed from guru to disciple,

  4. Everyone around you believes it,

  5. It has supernatural qualities,

  6. It fits my beliefs anyway,

  7. It sounds rational to me,

  8. It is taught by a respectable person,

  9. It was said to be the truth by the teacher,

  10. One must defend it or fight for it.

  
  

  But you are unaware of the fact that ‘I’ itself is not the self. 'I’ is cause of the ignorance. Getting rid of the ignorance is very much necessary in pursuit of truth. 

  Non-dualistic truth is supreme truth; all dualistic systems hold false self [ego] as real self and false experience [universe or waking] as reality. Non- dualistic wisdom is culmination of all systems including theistic non-duality. The true non-dualist will not quarrel and argue with any theoretical philosophy because he is fully aware of the fact that, this orthodox theistic non-dualistic scholars or pundits like Dualist sages could not distinguish between ‘I’ and ‘formless witness.’ The 'I' was the witness. Their highest was the Jiva. One is so much attached to the 'I' that he do not want to think that 'I' does not exist. Again one is unable to detach the ‘I’ from the Real witness. 

  
  

  There is need to study the scriptures. One has to self-search the truth and realize it without the scriptures. And then when he reads the scriptures he becomes aware the scriptures are also saying the same thing but everything is misinterpreted. 

  
  

  Thus holding the ‘I’ or ‘I AM’ as self and trying to assimilate the Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana will not yield any fruit. Thus deeper verification is very much necessary to drop the ‘I’ or ‘I AM THAT – declared by the sages in the past which are useful only in lower stages.

  2 minutes ago · Like

Self-realization is an impossibility, without understanding ‘what is mind?’***

Self-realization is an  impossibility, without understanding ‘what is mind?’  ‘What is the substance of the mind?’ and “What is the source of the mind?”. The mind and its substance and its source are one in essence. . That essence is the Soul, which is present in the form of consciousness.  By realizing the consciousness alone, is real all else is mere an illusion created out of the consciousness.

The world in which we exist is created out of a single stuff. That single stuff is the consciousness. This knowledge of the single stuff is Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana leads one to self-awareness.

Trying to make the mind still is an  impossibility without Advaitic wisdom.  Thus, perfect understanding of ‘what is what' is needed to realize the truth beyond the form, time and space.

 The Soul is the innermost Self. The Soul is present in the form of the consciousness. The world in which we exist is created out of the consciousness.  The consciousness alone is real the world in which we exist is mere an illusion created out of the consciousness.

 

This knowledge of the single stuff (consciousness) leads one to self-awareness. The self-awareness brings unity in diversity in the midst of duality. Unity in diversity in the midst of the dualistic illusion is the state of the Soul, the innermost self. The nature of the Soul is stillness. 

'To realize the Advaitic Truth a freer and fuller scope the seeker has to realize the form, time and space are one in essence. And that essence is the consciousness. And the Soul the innermost Self is present in the form of the consciousness. 

To realize the Advaitic truth the seeker has to be free from all superstitions and orthodox contaminations. The seeker has to be dedicated to acquire Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana alone.

A Gnani will easily appreciate the high flights of Sage Sri, Sankara’s Advaitic wisdom is one of the 'most majestic structures and valuable products of the Genius of man in his search for Truth. 

There is no need to go to the mountains in search of the truth***

Unity is here and now, always has been and always will be. So long as one is ignorant of this truth, he will not see unity only he sees diversity.

The  Self” is neither five elements, nor any of the organs individually, nor all the elements or organs together as a whole. The body and universe exist within the waking or dream. Thus, the body and the universe are limited to the waking or dream.  The Soul, the 'Self is within the waking or dream as their formless substance and it is without the waking or the  dream as their formless witness.  If is within because the waking or dream is a merely an illusion created out of the self, which is in the form of  the consciousness. Thus, the  forms and the names within waking or dream have no value because the waking or dreams are a mere mirage created out of the consciousness.  The waking or dreams are impermanent whereas the formless substance and witness of the waking or dream are permanent.

The Soul, the innermost self ‘is   beyond the three states  because it is neither the waking entity nor it is the dream entity.  The Soul, the 'Self' exists  in its formless nondual true nature  in deep sleep without the limitation of the sense of form, time and space.  The self is attributeless, a nondual entity which alone prevails when all the three states are negated mentally. 

There is no need to go to  the mountains in search of  the truth. There is no need to meet any gurus. There is no need to renounce family life. There is no need to  study the scriptures. There is no need for glorifying the gurus.  There is a need to spend the fortune to please the gurus.  Going to mountains, searching for the guru, renouncing the family life, studying the scriptures ,glorifying the personal Gods and Gurus are the greatest obstacle in  the path of   self-realization.

One need not be a monk , a  sanyasi  or swami to acquire Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. Religious orthodoxy, scriptural mastery are not a qualification to acquire Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. Monkhood and sanyasa is a   great obstacle in the pursuit of truth. 

Guru, Swami, Yogi, Sadhu, and Avatara belongs to religious paths. The religious path is the path meant for ignorant who blindly accept their experience the birth,life,death and the world as reality because  the universe is the product of ignorance.

When wisdom dawns  then the unreal nature of the universe is exposed. Thus, whatever experiences take place within the universe is bound to be a falsehood. Therefore,  the  Guru, Swami, Yogi, Sadhu, and Avatars nothing to do with the ultimate truth or Brahman because they are based on the false self (ego or the waking entity) and false experience (waking). Path of wisdom is only for those who are seriously in search ultimate truth or Brahman. Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana is the mother of all knowledge thus it is not accumulated knowledge.

Sage Sri, Sankara:~ VC Let erudite scholars quote all the scripture, let gods be invoked through sacrifices, let elaborate rituals be performed, let personal gods be propitiated---yet, without the realization of one‘s identity With the Self, there shall be no liberation for the individual, not  even in the lifetimes of a hundred Brahmas put together (verses-6 VC)

It is clear that liberation cannot be the result of good works, for Sruti itself declares that there is no hope for immortality by means of wealth.  (Verses -7 VC)

Actions help to purify the mind, but they do not, by themselves, contribute to the attainment of Reality. The attainment of the Reality brought about only by Self-Inquiry and not in the least by even ten million acts. (11 VC)

The fear and sorrow created by the delusory serpent in the rope can be ended only after fully ascertaining the truth of the rope through steady and balanced thinking. (12 VC )

Neither sacred baths nor any amount of charity nor even Hundreds of pranayamas* can give us the knowledge about our own Self.  The firm experience of the nature of the Self is seen to proceed from inquiry along the lines of the salutary advice  of the wise. (13VC)

Ultimate success in spiritual endeavors depends chiefly upon the qualifications of the seeker.  Auxiliary conveniences such as time And place all have a place indeed, but they are essentially secondary. (14VC)

He alone is considered qualified to enquire after the supreme Reality, who has discrimination, detachment, qualities of Calmness etc., and a burning desire for liberation. The four-fold qualifications (verses 17 VC)

Great sages have spoken of four qualifications for attainment which, when present, succeed in the realization of Brahman and In the absence of which the goal is not attained. (18 VC)

(While enumerating the qualifications), first, we count the ability to discriminate between the Real and the unreal; next comes a spirit of detachment from the enjoyment of the fruits of actions here and  hereafter; after that is the groups of six virtues beginning with  Calmness; and the last is undoubtedly an intense desire for  liberation.(19 VC)

A firm conviction that Brahman alone is Real and the phenomenal World is unreal is known as discrimination between the Real and The unreal. (20 VC)

They have crossed the dreadful ocean of (embodied) existence through their own efforts and without any (personal) motives; they help others to cross it. (37VC)

The ignorant thinks that  the 'Self' is the waking entity (ego) and perceives the world without being aware of the fact that, the three states are mere illusory experience created out of consciousness. Thus, they try to judge the truth on the false entity (waking entity or ego) within the false experience (waking). Until one makes sure of the true self, it is erroneous to judge and conclude the ultimate truth on mere intellectualism.  Thus, one has to make sure of the fact that,    the self is neither the waking entity nor self is  the dream entity but the self is formless soul or consciousness, which witnesses the coming and going of the three states without the physical apparatus.

A Gnani has a firm conviction that  the “Self” is definitely neither the waking entity nor the dream entity because the waking and dream both are illusory.  The true self is formless soul or   consciousness. Consciousness is    the existence and knowledge.

Illusion’s "concealing power" merely means that when one looks at an ice block he thinks only of the ice block. But a Gnani will think of the substance of the ice block too.   That is a wise man has the knowledge of the substance plus of the ice block. Similarly, a Gnani has the knowledge of the universe and its formless substance also. The consciousness is concealed because of ignorance. 

As a man,  one is not aware of the fact that, his body, ego and his experience of the world are merely an illusion  created out of consciousness. When one becomes aware of the fact that, the universe is an illusion  then there is no body,  no ego, and no world than there is only the formless soul or   consciousness, which is the innermost self.  

One has to get firm conviction that, the Self is definitely not the waking entity because the waking experience itself is an illusion. The self is the formless substance and the witness of the three states.  The formless substance and witness is the soul or consciousness. The soul or consciousness is the innermost self.  The innermost self is without change, without any form, without any blemish, and without any decay, without disease, beyond all comprehension, beyond any change and consciousness is all pervading.

The soul, the  innermost self is without properties and without any activity; the self is permanent, forever free and imperishable.

The Soul or the consciousness is the subject. All the three states are an object to the formless subject.  And the three states are but transient experience.  The witness of the three states, is Soul, the Self.  The  Soul, the witness, is unaffected by the individual experiences happening within the waking or the  dream because it can never be lost or lose anything in itself. Thus,  nothing is lost or gained because everything is consciousness.  Therefore,  a Gnani sees only the consciousness in everything and everywhere in all the three states.  Thus, for Gnani there is no second thing exists other than the  consciousness. 

Adyathmic Discussion --360

P: Because people think the body is born, lives and dies they feel the pleasure and pain as reality. But it is not body alone that dies, the world also dies together, because they appeared together and they disappear together as deep sleep or death.

So, as long as one is in the body one is bound by pleasure and pain.
Is there anyone who lives otherwise?

Warm regards..

Hi P,

The body,ego are within the world, the world is within the mind. The body and the world are reality within the waking experience.  The waking experience is unreal, and our individual experiences of birth, life and death are happening within waking or dream. When the mind is present then only the waking or dream is present. If mind is absent the waking or dream is absent. When the mind is absent it is deep sleep.  The witness of the three states is formless and real.

The truth is hidden within the mind, and no mind experiences. Deeper investigation will reveal the truth.

Waking entity (ego or form) with the name is not the author of the waking experience, because waking entity (ego or form) with the name exists within the waking experience. The waking experience is parallel dream, and the dream is a parallel waking experience. 

If I was Alexander the great in the dream and suffered pain in the dream, the pain of the dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. Similarly, my experience of pain and pleasure becomes unreal when wisdom dawns.  Within the illusion everyone is affected by pain and pleasure. Therefore, it is necessary for everyone to become consciously aware of the soul /consciousness themselves, and realize its effect themselves.  Since when one becomes soul centric any claim of authorship of any experience makes him egocentric. Whatever is based on Egocentricity is falsehood.    For a Gnani, nothing exists, nothing is ever exited, and nothing is going to exist, other than nothing, which is the soul, which is present in the form of consciousness, which is second to none.     

It has not been possible to preach Advaitic wisdom entirely free from the settings of dualistic weakness.***

Swami Vivekananda:~ The Higher your ideal is, the more miserable you are,' for such a thing as an ideal cannot be attained in the world ~ or in this life, even. He who wants perfection in the world is a madman — for it cannot be. How can you find the infinite in the finite?

It has not been possible to preach Advaitic wisdom  entirely free from the settings of dualistic weakness it has not been more operative and useful to mankind at large because only few will be able to grasp and realize it.

'To realize the Advaitic Truth a freer and fuller scope the seeker has to realize the form, time and space are one in essence. And that essence is consciousness. And the soul, the innermost self is present in the form of consciousness.   

To realize the Advaitic truth the seeker has to be free from all superstitions and orthodox contaminations. The seeker has to be dedicated to acquire Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana   alone.'

A  Gnani will easily appreciate the high flights of Sage Sri, Sankara’s Advaitic wisdom is one of the 'most majestic structures and valuable products of the Genius of man in his search for Truth. 

The seeker has to think deeply and realize the fact that, the consciousness is the innermost self and unborn witness.  Thus, the body, ego and the world are nothing to do with unborn witness, which is ever formless. But body, ego and the world are mere mirage created out of consciousness, which is the innermost self.

The seeker gradually begins to accept the unreal nature of the mind or  the universe, which appears in the form of waking experience.  

That which blocks the way of acceptance of the non-dualistic truth even the most thinkers are the ego. If thinkers realize the fact that ,  their  body, ego and their experience of the  world are created out of  single stuff than  it is possible for them to   grasp the non-dualistic truth  in lesser time and effort . One has to verify whatever he knows is truth or not before declaring whatever he knows is ultimate truth or Brahma.

The main reason why egocentricity prevents such understanding is that it causes a person to be strongly attached in the belief that consciousness is the support of the individual.

Dualist sages could not distinguish between ‘I’ and ‘formless witness.’ The 'I' was the witness. Their highest was the Jiva. One is so much attached to the 'I' that he does not want to think that 'I' does not exist. Again one is unable to detach the ‘I’ from the Real witness.

 Whatever is born, lives and dies within the illusory waking experience.  The birth, life, death and the world are reality within the waking experience.  The  experience of the birth, life, death and world are reality within the waking experience. The waking experience is mere falsehood from the ultimate standpoint.  There is no use thinking how the body functions or with what body functions. The dream body functions within the dream and the  waking body functions within the waking experience.   

 One has to find out what powers the dream as a whole to realize the same power, powers the waking as whole.  The one who knows all the three states are one in essence also aware of the fact that the form, time and space are one in essence and that essence is  the consciousness, which is the innermost self.  When one realizes the innermost self is not the body, but formless consciousness than: where is the body, where is the world in taintless consciousness. They are or have become consciousness, which ultimate truth or Brahman.