Self-discovery is the only way, towards non-dual Absolute*****

Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atama Gnana  cannot be attained by the study of the scriptures and intellectual understanding or by bookish knowledge.  Therefore,there is no use of studying the scriptures and other scriptures in order to acquire the non-dual wisdom.  

That is why Bhagavan Buddha rejected the scriptures, and even Sage Sri, Sankara indicated that  the ultimate truth lies beyond religion, concept of god and scriptures. 

Scriptures are being added to from time to time. This process will go on. There is the final authority among them? One contradicts the other: duality reigns supreme.
I quote Scriptural citation only after   verification reality and proved the truth, to point out that the scriptures teach the same thing. If one quotes them before having demonstrated truth, then it is scholasticism.

There is only one Reality to be known, the same for all seekers, but the ways to it, are hidden by the religion.  Self-discovery is the only way, towards non-dual Absolute without any religious doctrines, which will help the seekers to unfold the mystery of the illusion in which we all are searching the truth of our true existence.

Bhagavan Buddha said: - Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

Many people quote Advaita without understanding it really in its highest aspect. One who follows the path of Advaitic orthodoxy is  taken the path of ignorance. "How does he know that what Sage Sri, Sankara says is true?  There are  conflicting teachings. People get  confused as to which are true?" People  will be unable to prove because they  do not know the proper test of truth.The Veda serves only as the starting point. What one has to learn from Veda must be understood through the exercise of reason, as far as reason might go. And what one has understood must be realized in one’s life.

Only pretenders show such external works or claims. People who do not understand the scriptures generally misinterpret all scriptures references to the ‘indifference’ of the sage as meaning sitting idle, remote from worldly concerns. "Though the scripters speak of a direct knowledge of ultimate truth by a study of the holy texts it does not become established..." It is therefore not enough to say one understand the theories of Advaita; he may grasp idealism and Manduka, but it is not enough.

The citations from scriptures are not proofs.  The ultimate truth has to be proved without the scriptures.  The ultimate truth is the universal truth, and it does not belong to any religion.  The religion causes diversity in unity, whereas, the ultimate truth brings unity in diversity. 

It is not that one should pore over the ancient scriptures.  There is no need to study first then realize. One has to realize first then only he will know ‘what is truth’ and ‘what is untruth’.  One has to make his discoveries through the process of rational thinking. 

That is why Sage Sri, Sankara says: -V-C :-65. As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a knower of Brahman, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted arguments.
It means-  search the truth  independently on your own, therefore,  there is no need of any teacher or teaching the truth has to be  ascertained by the seeker himself. Until the seeker realizes the truth,  how can he know what is the untruth?  How can one know the teacher knows the truth or teaching speaking of the truth? The seeker should not accept anything as truth without deeper introspection. Only uncontradictable truth has to be accepted as the ultimate truth of Brahman. The path of truth is the path of verification. Nothing has to be accepted as truth without verification.

The Guru is useless so long as the ultimate truth is unknown, and guru is equally useless when the ultimate truth or Brahman   has already been known.  Guru is needed in the religious and yogic path.  There is no need of the guru in to acquire self-knowledge.

That is why Sage Sri Sankara himself says:- VC 59. The study of the Scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known.

60. The Scriptures consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely causes the mind to ramble. Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of the Self.

61. For one who has been bitten by the serpent of Ignorance, the only remedy is the knowledge of Brahman. Of what avail are the Vedas and (other) Scriptures, Mantras (sacred formulae) and medicines to such a one?

62. A disease does not leave off if one simply utter the name of the medicine, without taking it; (similarly) without direct realization one cannot be liberated by the mere utterance of the word Brahman.

63. Without causing the objective universe to vanish and without knowing the truth of the Self, how is one to achieve Liberation by the mere utterance of the word Brahman ? — It would result merely in an effort of speech.

Self-Knowledge is achievable without the grace of any guru or conceptual god or the mercy of some god men. Seeker has to simply wake up to the Reality (consciousness), which is the formless substance and witness of the unreality (universe of mind). At the end of the quest, the seeker becomes aware of the fact that, the true self is consciousness.  There is nothing exists other than consciousness. Thus consciousness is Ultimate Reality.

The consciousness is being identified by another name "Nothingness", because truly if there was Nothingness, in the end, there must be one "final witness" to that Nothingness.

When one unconsciously reaches the goal it is called physical death***

From Theresa:~
 

Dear santthosh/, dear Phil,

I just read all your contributions to the group, and I want to thank you for this. It is really inspiring and entertaining, and I recognize a subtle "I know more than you, I know how it is right" tendency.

To me it sounds a little like a guru discussion. And I very much appreciate this; it really is like the spice in the soup for this group, thank you very much. I agree on some points with santthosh, I agree on some points with Phil.

I have some questions for you both and hope I am blessed with your answers.

1. What causes seeking?

2. When will the seeking end/ how long is the search and when do I find out that the search is finished?

3. What is mind?

4. What is thought and where does it come from/ how is it generated?

5. Why should we seek for truth?

6. If the seeker is the sought then why search?

7. How to have the direct experience of truth?

8. it said "the atman/Brahman/ absolute is everything", does it mean the search for it already happens in atman and isn't it than just a game made up by the mind whose characteristic it is to seek/crave/improve/ get somewhere?

9. "there is no purpose to life" you say, but on the other hand it seems you say seeking/ realizing the truth is the core of being, so isn't this a purpose?

10. it does not matter if we search or not, if we realize the truth or not, the eternal self is and remains untouched, because seeking happens within duality, within the realm of mind and thought and absolute truth is beyond that - true?

And, I cannot find anything bad with duality. Without duality, non- duality could not be experienced. without the effort and strivings (in duality) of the mind and the ultimate falling away of the search it could not be realized that that what we have been searching for was

already that which we have been searching from and it has already always been so and will always be, and is. All this seeking is like saying:~ truth, love, the self cannot be here now, it must be somewhere else, someday in the future, in the Himalayas, in the scriptures, somewhere hidden in my mind or whatever concept about realizing the self or enlightenment we might have, etc. it is called the SELF, where else can it be than what are you?
 

Even "the seeker", another form of ego/separate imagined self, even though it is a great imagined self which acknowledges that he does not know anything and therefore seeks to awaken from his ignorance, has to disappear so self might be revealed. and still somehow it seems that this seeker has to appear to try it all to come to a point where he sees that he will never "arrive" there, he cannot, for he himself is a mind construct, that covers the sun like our own fingernail held before the (inner) eye.

on the other hand his the search so filled with joy, blissful moments, glimpses of "knowledge" and insights, spiritual experience (spiritual candy as my guru put it), moments where "you" think you know it all and now can go and teach others, "you" have discovered something which no one else has, you are special because you are spiritual, etc., there are valley and peak experiences and it is juicy and full of drama and aliveness this search and some people seem as if they don't want to come out of the search ever. Some even seem to think being human means to seek forever. But a search has a goal, even though the mind cannot conceive of this goal. it is the end of the mind, the empty silent mind that is needed so the self can realize itself.

Mind and duality are needed, it is not an enemy to the self. Without the body mind truth cannot experience itself in the form and therefore realize itself.

Wishing you all a wonderful day.

Theresa

Posted

My reply

Dear Theresa,

Thank you for your letter. At the same time I say please do not count me among those, who say I know more, and I know how it is right. I do not have that attitude and that tendency. I just shared my view points. I know Phil, and we interacted in another forum. Mr. Phil is a great thinker and great master, and he is a greatest asset to the spiritual world. I admire and respect him. It is foolishness to claim that I know more and better than Phil. Please do not count me in that category; I am not in that rat race. I do not claim myself to be a master, teacher or guru. I am just what I am. I avoid being in such rate race.

I do not like to add spice in the soup, it is better to have soup as it is, without add-ons to it, to get a real hang of it. Whether you agree or not the truth remains as truth.

In my experience, Seeker will find answers for all his questions when he drops viewing and judging on standpoint of his accumulated knowledge and receptive to receive self-knowledge.  Intellectual discussion based on egocentric (physical based) theories will not lead the seeker anywhere, and it is a waste of time and effort because it will not yield any fruits. 

If one knows the true self, then, he will realize the fact that he and his world are part of the illusion, on the standpoint of the true self.  There is neither seeker nor seeking nor duality in reality. The whole experience of duality (mind) is illusion. And the substance of the mind is formless and nondual in its nature and that substance itself is the true self or Atman.

1. What causes seeking?

ANS: Ignorance of the true self causes the seeking.

2. When will the seeking end/ how long is the search and when do I find out that the search is finished?

ANS: When the ignorance is overcome the seeking ends. As long as the ignorance is there the search continues

3. What is mind?

ANS: Mind is objective awareness

4. What is thought and where does it come from/ how is it generated?

ANS: Thoughts are present only when there is objective awareness is there. Absent of objective awareness is absent of thoughts and experience. Therefore,it is erroneous to find the source of the thought, because without the objective awareness the thoughts and experience cease to exist. Only people, who think the physical body as self, try to search the source of the thought. Seeking truth on the physical body as self itself is erroneous. The source of objective awareness is the true self or Atman.

5. Why should we seek for truth?

ANS: To overcome the ignorance of the reality of the true existence.

6. If the seeker is the sought then why search?

ANS: The seeker exists until he experiences the illusion (duality) as reality. When wisdom dawns the duality becomes unreal. Same way as the dream becomes unreal, when the waking takes place. When the wisdom dawns then the seeker and his experience ceases to exist as reality. Therefore he realizes the fact that there is neither the seeker nor seeking in reality, on the standpoint of the true self (Atman).

7. How to have the direct experience of truth?

ANS: When man is not the author of his own experience, how can man claim authorship of the direct experience which is not his own experience. 

8. it is said "the atman/brahman/ absolute is everything", does it mean the search for it 

 already happens in atman and isn't it then just a  

game made up by the mind whose characteristic it is to 

seek/crave/improve/ get somewhere

ANS: to understand this seeker has to learn to view and judge the worldview on the base of Ataman as self. If seeker clings to an idea or theory as the inalterable truth, then the truth does come in person and knock at his door, he will not be able to open the door and accept it. As long as he has not realized the Ataman that permeates all, it is essential to be receptive and verify after studying the full subject what I say. Seeker of truth should not hold to the intellectual understanding from other sources and mix it -up and make a hotchpotch of it; he has to focus his attention the root of the objective awareness which is Ataman, and realize the objective awareness is mere illusion.

9. "there is no purpose to life" you say, but on the other hand it seems you say seeking / realizing the truth is the core of being , so it is not this purpose?  

ANS: one feels there is the purpose of life only when he is ignorant of the true self, and views and judges the worldview on the base of the false self (I).  On the base of the true self birth, life and death are mere illusion. Therefore,purpose of life is a reality only when one accepts the duality as reality.

10. it does not matter if we search or not, if we realize the truth or not, the eternal self is and remains untouched, because seeking happens within the duality , within the realm of the mind and thought and absolute truth is beyond that true?

ANS: until one thinks the eternal self is apart and the world is apart he will remain in the realm of duality experiencing as reality.  The duality and mind is one and the same thing. The experience is prior to thought. Without the experience of duality man and his world ceases to exist. Without the man the thought will not arise. It is foolish venture to search the truth on the thought which arises with in the mind or experience of duality. Therefore without understanding the full subject if one hangs on his own theory and idea of truth he will remain in the realm of falsehood or mind until it disappears on its own.

11. I cannot find anything bad with duality. Without duality, non-duality could not be experienced. 

ANS :The duality is neither good nor bad, duality is falsehood or illusion. The false hood is created out of the real. Without the non-duality (real) duality (unreal) ceases to exist. Until one becomes aware of the fact that he is not the author of his own experience the duality will prevail as reality 

12. Without the effort and strivings (in duality) of the mind and the ultimate falling away of the search it could not be realized that that what we have been searching for was already that which we have been searching from and it has already always been so and will always be, and is. all this seeking is like saying: truth, love, the self cannot be here now, it must be somewhere else, some day in the future, in the Himalayas, in the scriptures, somewhere hidden in my mind or whatever concept about realizing the self/enlightenment we might have etc. it is called the SELF, where else can it be than what you are?

ANS:-All the effort and strivings are happening within the falsehood (duality) the truth cannot be grasped on the base of false entity. Deeper inquiry and reasoning reveals the fact that neither the physical body nor the ‘I’ is the true self then why to seek the truth on the false entity (I or physical body as self). Rectifying the seeking base is very much necessary to discover, assimilate and realize the true self. This is possible only when the seeker is ready to learn to seek truth on the true base and ready to learn to view and judge the worldview on the true base without any argument and theorizing everything on his own point of view. 

Even "the seeker", another form of ego/separate imagined self, even though  it is great imagined self who acknowledges that he does not know anything and therefore seeks to awaken from his ignorance, has to disappear so self might be   revealed. and still somehow it seems that this seeker has to appear to try it all to come to a point where he  sees that he will never " arrive " there, he cannot , for he himself  is a mind construct , that covers the sun like our own fingernail held before the inner eye. 

ANS:- All this doubts, and confusion will prevail until seeker thinks the physical body or ‘I’ as a self.  Therefore,it is necessary to understand burning all the physical based accumulated dross and seek the truth on the base of true self. Then only it is possible to assimilate the nondual truth.

On the other hand his the search so filled with joy, blissful moments, glimpses of "knowledge" and insights, spiritual experience (spiritual candy as my guru put it) ,

ANS: All those blissful moment are reality within the duality. For the realized mind the pain and pleasure are part of the illusion. The one which witnesses the duality (birth, life and death or pain or pleasure) is unaffected. The true self is within the duality as its formless substance. And it is apart from duality, as its formless witness. It is apart because it is not and entity or identity within the duality, because it is formless and nondual in its nature.

Moments where "you" think you know it all and now can go and teach others, "you" have discovered something which no one else has, you are special because you are spiritual etc., there are valley and peak experiences and it is juicy and full of drama and aliveness this search and some people seem as if they don't want to come out of the search ever.

ANS: The drama itself is duality, everything is happening within the duality. The individual experience within the duality is as real as a dream. The one which witnesses the dream witnesses the waking also as a whole. Whatever is happening within the waking also  is a  false hood.  The soul,which is the formless witness of the waking and dream is the ultimate truth which  Sage Sri, Sankara called it as BRAMHAN.

All the seeking is happening within the  duality, and there is no teaching, no teacher no disciple no universe in realm of nondualistic or Advaitic  truth. Truth is not individual property it is universal. No one is special; everyone is heading towards that nondual goal consciously or unconsciously. When one unconsciously reaches the goal it is called physical death. When consciously realizes in the midst of the experience of duality it is called nondualistic or Advaitic  wisdom.

Some even seem to think being human means to seek forever. But a search has a goal, even though the mind cannot conceive of this goal. It is the end of the  mind, the empty silent mind that is needed so the self can realize itself. Mind and duality is needed, it is not an enemy to the self. Without the body mind truth cannot experience itself the in form and therefore realize itself.

ANS: Until and unless the seeker becomes aware of the soul , the innermost self and learns to view and judge  the worldview on the base of the soul, the innermost self,  than he is bound to view and judge the worldview on the  ego,which is the false self, and permanently remain in confusion as per his  idea and  deep rooted conviction.   Once he learns to view and judge on the true base, all clouds of doubts and confusion will start clearing. Since, many refuse to verify the facts other then their accepted truth they will remain prisoners of their own accepted truth.

 In the realm of truth I, you, others and the universe are mere illusion. And the illusion is created out of  a single substance which is consciousness(soul). Thus there is no second thing other then Ataman in the experience of diversity, hence it is nondual

Choosing the path

The people, who are in the mystical path, will like religion and scriptures. The people, who are searching to experience of bliss, will like yoga. The people, who are seeking truth, will chose  the path of wisdom. Every path is very valuable in its own way to its seekers.  Thus, it is necessary not to compare the teachings with one another.

The general discussion will help the seekers, to acquire higher knowledge. Buddha rejected the religion, scriptures, and concept of god when he found them; they are inadequate and useless, in pursuit of truth. Same way seeker of truth has to reject everything, which is  an obstacle  to realizing the nondualistic or Advatic truth, where there is no place for all our physical based accumulated knowledge.

Love

Santthosh

Religion was introduced in the past for the populace which was unable to grasp higher truth and bereft of the old creed*****

Religion is regarded as sacred and real by the common people, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful.  

Religion was introduced in the past  for the populace  which was unable to grasp higher truth and bereft of the old creed. So for them, new religion may be concocted to suit their temperament and capacity.

 Plunging into the mind and seeing the whole world in it mentally and grasping the fact that all the diversity is created and sustained by the soul and finally dissolves as the soul. Therefore,there is no second thing other than the soul in the experience of diversity. Thus, the unity in diversity is possible only by perfect understanding. The physical journey such as yoga and religion, paths and theories are for those who are incapable of performing the mental journey. Individual happiness is sought by religion, whereas Truth seeks universal happiness. 

 Religion is a means whereby one keeps society within a certain order. Those however who refuse to wait for the next world but want the comfort here and now, are likely to follow the atheism.

In the past religion was encouraged by   the rich and the rulers because of the fear atheism because it may lead the masses to attack them and to rebel against the established order of property and cause unrest in society. The poor are promised a better life in the next world. Yet the religion is needed for the populace without it, they might arise and rebel and become a cause of concern: there would be no settled order, no stable peaceful society.

The Kings of the past with the help of the sages had invented the religion and idea of god and injected it on people because they can give the people an opiate and keep them better under control.

Science has been opening the eyes of the people and exposed many myths of religious claims.  The  religion propagates its  fables instead of facts. The religious myth of  the next life and  next-world  keeps one believing  the illusory duality as a reality.   Instead of making  the  practical world a heaven, the religionists are making the world hell in order to reach the paradise by causing the terror attacks in the name of God and  the religion.  

West will gradually follow the path of the east, and imitate the east, and vice versa, which will result in the decay of all religion. The eastern religion like all religions cannot produce enduring good results; only the universal truth can do that.  Therefore, universal truth is necessary to eradicate the unrest of the world caused in the name of religion and god. 

The word "I” used in the eastern scriptures is not the individual me as one imagines, but the soul, which is the true self. Since everyone thinks the ‘I’ is self only the body is not self and base their theory and understanding on the base of ‘I’ as the self. It is very difficult for them to accept the fact that the ‘I’ itself is not the self.  If this is understood the truth pursuit becomes easier.   

The rituals and worship of idols are only for mental children not for the seekers of truth. Religion renders ethical services to humanity.

There is no need to criticize religion, yoga etc. They are helpful in some way for those who is not in the pursuit of truth, but one has to understand the fact that they are no the means to self-realization. "Know the Truth through soulcentric  reasoning is the only means to acquire nondual wisdom.”

 The very fact that,  religions differ proves that each religion is a man made.  Many in the West are giving up religion. That is inevitable owing to the decay of religious organizations. But their mistake is to rest satisfied with such negative inner life and not to aspire to something higher than religion after giving it up because there lean towards materialistic life.

Religion is a matter which must be left to individual feelings, not to intelligence.  Religions keep mass mindset within moral bounds; without their help, there would have been no hope for mankind. That is, religions prevent the masses from becoming even more beastly than they already are.  The people cannot give up religious ideas in one day. It will have to be a gradual process by making them aware of the universal truth. 

 The credulous and unintelligent masses must have a religion, but those who bestow serious seekers of truth need none. 

As per the Indian religion the three "Ashrams" or stages in life were originally intended for three grades of intelligence thus:

v  Religion:~  low intellects had to do 'karmas' works, ritual actions, chanting of mantras and indulging in bhajans and prayers etc.

v  Middle intellects:~  Yoga: taking yellow robes, going to forest and mountain caves, ashrams etc.

v  High intellects:~ Philosophy: who wanted truth are concerned with no external rites or sanyasa, but depend solely on intelligent inquiry for their path.

In India, in the past, the male birth is regarded as superior because a father of the male child can more easily renounce the home and become a Sannyasin than a woman who is tied down by the care of her children.

Nondualistic or Advaitic  wisdom can be attained by any householder without disturbing his family life and that this path is easier; there is no need to renounce and take Sanyasa, which however is harder. Only it needs no distractions and more concentration. It is better to have the  married status  and lead the normal pleasures of life to have to learn to evaluate sex at its proper worth instead of hankering always after sex   so that the mind may pass on undisturbed and become more receptive to grasp and realize the Advaitic  truth.

Ashtavakra Gita which says:  "For the wise man there is nothing to be renounced." He knows that everything is unreal, hence,  cannot be given up.

Yoga and meditation recommended as a temporary discipline to those who lack self-control. It will act as an antidote, counteract their inherent tendency, but the man who is already sufficiently level-headed and calm needs no such external discipline. In any case yoga and  meditation is to be recommended only until the practitioner achieves some degree of self-control after which he may relinquish his old habits.

Yoga and meditation are a temporary discipline and for the training of the mind, for the mind to become achieve external peace, remaining unaffected amid troubles. It has no other purpose. 

 The mystic or yogi who objects to adopt inquiry and reasoning into the quest has an attitude of not allowing anything other than his accepted truth.