Three states are only objects, things seen, hence one try to transcend them. Even truth is only an idea to one in illusion. The mind and the meaning is the idea within the illusion. One has to know the subject as well as the object.
Psychologists commit the error of defining consciousness as a duality of Mind plus the object! Unless both are together there is no awareness of experience. They deny that consciousness can exist apart from objects. The illustration of deep sleep is given as a valuable warning against such an erroneous position.
Many philosophy of the world does not go into the question "What is meant by mental?" or what is beyond mind? That is, because it is ignorant of the real subject. And they also hold object as subject within the object.
Psychology has nothing to do with the formless witness, with that which is aware of all these things and ideas and processes and reactions which psychology discusses. The only certain thing about the body is that it is forever changing; the greatest change of all being death which no one can prevent. In contrast to the body the mind is the only thing of whose unchanging character one can be certain. The one which is aware of all these tells one about all the changes, remaining itself relatively constant, as a standard of reference for them.
One can never know what the mind really is until one indulges in self search. Only by analyzing deeply one becomes aware the mind is not limited to physical entity but to the whole physical existence. Most of thinkers limit the mind to the physical entity. When one limits the mind to the physical entity it is called ego. People base themselves on ego and trying to understand assimilate the truth, which only leads them to imagination or intellectuality or logical conclusion.
It is incorrect to base on the ego in pursuit of truth, when one becomes aware of the fact the self is not physical but it is formless soul/spirit. If one wants to study soul/spirit, he must make the mind as an object ; and if it becomes a object, it is no longer subject, no longer the mind; if he wants the subject[soul] as it really is, then it is absolutely impossible to study it.
The term Witness, Seer, is used in a non-dual sense, without reference to objects witnessed, absolute awareness, not relative.
Thought is present in duality. Duality is mind. Mind is illusion. Thoughts, feelings, will, are all modifications, nothing more. Even if it is of God, it is still in the mind, which is illusion.
Once one really understands that, all imaginations are illusion because they ceases to exist without the mind. One may hope to understand the ultimate truth but without knowing the untruth [illusion] he never will.
Birth, life and death which happen within the waking experience which comes and goes apply to mind. Therefore birthlessness is the characteristic of soul, which is ultimate truth.
Consciousness means awareness of dual [waking/dream] and non-dual [deep sleep] experiences. People think consciousness implies duality. It is not so. When the mind is present the thoughts, emotions also are present, then unconsciousness would only mean the absence of duality, not the absence of the capacity to know; unconsciousness does not mean the nonexistence of that which disappears from consciousness, it merely means that mind has ceased its functioning. Finally there must be a kind of awareness which one does not understand and which is still existent when the waking or dream [object, the known, the thoughts] are absent.
Subject [soul] object [three states] analysis gives one a key to analyzing all statements, all revelations, all assertions, and all gods even. For it tells one that anything that can be made known by mind is but an illusion; something imagined, and never reality.
Before the act of thinking there must be the consciousness, the Witness as such by itself. Thought is impossible unless one is aware of it. Psychologists are trying an impossible problem in analyzing thinking and yet leaving out the seer of the thoughts. The truth is hidden within the three states; the intellectuals do not understand it because their understanding is based on the physical self /ego.
In practical application the word “consciousness” usually means a duality, something to be conscious of is implied. Therefore, it is an unsuitable word to indicate the pure objectless awareness which exists prior to waking experience.
The ego, the individual self is not the soul, which is the witness/true self because it often disappears in deep sleep. The one which is aware of the three states is not the ego but the soul, which is the true self.
It is the illusion that is ever-changing but never the witness of the illusion. The illusion come and goes as waking and dream. When there is no illusion it is deep sleep or death. Consciously being aware of the witness and the illusion, in the midst of the illusion is non-dual wisdom.
The man and his world are within the mind. And mind appears as waking or dream and disappears and deep sleep, this has to be understood first.
The mind is known and the soul is that which knows. One has to analyze known (three states) and knower (soul). Then only one is able to conclude that the three states are only mental. Thereby further analysis one discover that both the three states and soul are only one substance.
Soul is only another name for self. The soul or consciousness, the innermost self does not change; its contents change, and the soul or consciousness, the innermost self knows the changes.
The first step is to distinguish between the knower (soul) and the known (mind). One never sees the three states coming and going. One is aware of the experiences of the three states in waking experience alone. Therefore, there is only waking experience (mind) from which he has to analyze.
One never sees the three states coming or going because he is limited to the waking experience alone. But he is only aware of the dream and deep sleep experiences in waking experience. When he becomes aware of the fact that the self is not physical but it is formless spirit and then he becomes aware that the witness of the three states is formless and apart.
All thoughts come and go to the person within the waking or dream. Waking and dream are noting but mind. The unitary substance of the Mind is always the soul or spirit. Mountains may multiply in one’s dream, but the soul itself does not therefore increase or gain. The individual experiences of the waking or dream are illusion created out of the soul or consciousness or spirit.
When one regards waking, dream and deep sleep as object, then he must know that there is something which sees or knows them. In this sense only he will be able to think of the formless witness. Hence object (three states) is a necessity in order to point to the existence of the formless witness.
When one does not regard three states as object he loses the knowledge that there is a formless witness.
People cannot think of the Mind without some object, thought etc. contained in it; they cannot believe in consciousness apart from the contents of consciousness. People regard objects only as material, whereas in realm of truth even thoughts and experience also as being objective as material things. People are ignorant and they have no idea of a subject(soul or consciousness, the innermost self) and hence never seek for it.
Discrimination between real and unreal is separating subject from object.How does one know he and his experience of the world exist? With what does he know that he exits? It is the witness that gives him the idea of being and he extends it to three states. Apart from the formless witness one never realizes that there is such a thing as soul.
Scientists think only of the world as a whole. it never strikes to them of the existence of the formless witness of the three states. they think the three states are individual experience and and they are experience of the waking entity.
They think world is apart from the physical entity. And they also think that, the birth, life and death takes place within the world. And they have the firm conviction that, the world existed prior to man and he is born in it. Until all these convictions are there it is impossible to find the ultimate truth because they think the physical entity is true self and the world as reality.
One has to give up the three states mentally in order get the ultimate truth or Brahman. When one gives up the 'mind ' he gets soul. Detach the soul from mind mentally by realizing mind is mere illusion created out of the soul, which is in the form of consciousness.
All intellectuality may seem nearer to truth but they are not truth in themselves. People think the truth is difficult because, they think they are unable to come out of the grip of the practical life. But truth can be realized with lesser time and effort, if they are ready to drop their preconceived ideas and conditioning.
One can only know the illusion when he discriminates between the mind and the soul or consciousness (formless substance of the mind). Mind was nonexistent when one analyzes and he realizes it is just illusion created out of formless stuff. Just as one knows the sound by its contrast to silence, he will know the diversity by its contrast to unity.
The great thinkers’ investigation into mind is infinite; it will always go on and yet never come to an end. Thinking the mind is within the body they go on and on forming new theories. But all these remain as theories based on the form, never on the formless. Whatever theories and argument based on the form is not the truth. There is no scope of argument in formless base because there is no doubts and confusion. Since, people are egocentric they are stuck with their pre-conceived ideas and they are searching for easier truth, to suit their time and lifestyle. Thus they will remain in discussing the truth with their preconceived and circling the ego.
Some are beginning to learn, the true nature of the illusion or mind and they will reach their non-dual destination. People who are stuck with their preconceived theories will only discover more theories. Realizing the self is not physical but it is formless spirit; they will have to turn to the formless witness of the three states, in order to realize the truth is beyond the three states.
When one denies the existence of the soul, he denying his own existence; soul is the secret support of his denial. Therefore, it is necessary to know the soul means the formless substance of the physical existence or mind. Thus, the meanings of the words are only to understand and assimilate the truth, not reject the words, merely because someone suggests it because it is religious word.
The formless witness alone is permanent, the three states goes. Those who cannot understand and analyze all experience into formless witness (subject) and three states (object) will always have trouble in understanding and assimilating the non-dual truth.
The object (three states) may be imagined, but one cannot speak of them unless he has a subject (formless witness) which is unimagined. It is there always, hence it is impossible to be aware of any three states (object) without the formless witness (subject).
There can be no such thing as an object (three states) unless there is the subject (soul or consciousness). Nobody can see the limitations of the Witness i.e. soul or consciousness, the innermost self. If he sees his limitations, then he is seeking those of the object, not of subject.
When one sits down to meditate, he is thinking first of sitting, i.e. his body; then he tries to have only have the thoughts of getting rid of the thoughts, with the thoughts of getting rid of the thought. Thus, he is thinking as a person within the world. Thus he remains as person practicing meditation, thinking the ego alone is illusory rest is reality within the illusion. He only thinks of the object, within the object, as an object. But he is never aware of the formless subject.
Ashtavakra says: - "This is your bondage, that you practice Samadhi meditation.”
When one puts aside the imagination and has the thinker-- what does he get with thinking—he can get only a thoughts. Meditation is only an effort; it is imagination, an idea; the soul or consciousness, the innermost self remaining the same with or without ideas.
As a person perceiving the world one is unaware of the fact that, he and his experience of the world are within the object. He as a person is completely unaware of the fact that, he is not the subject at all. The subject is formless and it is apart from the three states. The subject is not an entity or identity within the three states. Therefore, judging the truth on the base of the object as self is erroneous. Such judgement leads to all sorts of speculation, doubts and confusions.
When one is absorbed in thinking of anything, he is thinking within the object (mind or universe or waking) that which witnesses all these three states is within but always apart.
As a thinker he gets only thoughts. The thinker and thoughts are part of the illusion. Whenever there is thoughts and experiences, there is duality (mind or universe or waking) . Where there is duality (mind or universe or waking) there is always ignorance. Where there is ignorance there is illusion. The duality, mind and ignorance illusion are one and the same thing and they appear together and disappear. The ignorance vanishes when the wisdom dawns.
The knower of the three states is within the three states but it is formless and apart from the three states.
The whole universe and people and all its contents are within the mind. The truth is hidden within the mind but it is without the mind. As a Man one thinks the mind is within the physical body but the truth is the body and the universe are within the mind. Until this mistake is rectified to get the non -dual truth is impossibility. Man thinks he is an individual separate from the world within the mind which appears as waking or dream and disappears as deep sleep. Therefore, one has to analyze the three states in order to realize the witness of the three states is formless and apart from the three states. Thus the man is not the witness of the three states. Realizing this fact, it is erroneous to judge the truth on the waking entity.
It is impossible to trace the mind within the physical body, because the physical body and the world are within the mind. The idea of multiplicity of mind cannot be accepted. The dream appears as a whole with the dream entity, with people and dream world. The dream is witnessed as whole without the physical apparatus. The same witness witnesses the waking and deep sleep as a whole. This truth has to be grasped to realize the fact that, the waking entity is not the witness of the three states. Only when this truth is grasped, then it becomes easier to assimilate the Self-Knowledge.
Therefore, how the meditation or Samadhi or any other practice can yield the fruit, when the waking entity is not the self and the true self is the witness of the three states, not waking experience alone. This truth has to be grasped to rectify the mistake, which keeps one in the grip of duality makes him experience the duality as reality.
Only when become aware of the fact that, the waking entity is not the self, it becomes easier to understand the illusion. The form, time and space are within the mind. The knower of the form, time and space, is formless, timeless and space less existence. Therefore, when the meditator comes out of meditation, he again confronts the form, time and space. But for a Gnani without meditation, he is aware of the fact that, the form, time and space as consciousness and he is conscious of consciousness within the realm of form, time and space.
All the actions and moments are happening within the mind. In the realm of truth there is neither action nor the moment. When the mind itself is illusion on the standpoint of its formless substance, which is consciousness, then all the contents of the mind is bound to be illusion.
The idea of multiple souls is unproven hypothesis. To say that each mind is different is unproved because no one has ever seen mind. No one can say where it starts and stops, no one can measure its thickness, and all claims are mere supposition, not proof.
Yoga is practiced on the base of false self(ego or waking entity) therefore; yoga cannot yield the non-dual truth. Everything that one practices on the false self is part of the illusion. It yields only relative truth, i.e. true from a particular viewpoint, not ultimate truth.
The ego sees all the objects within the world. The ego, man and his experience of the world is within the mind, which is passing away every moment, hence unreal. Limiting the mind to the physical entity (waking entity or ego) is the cause of the ignorance. Therefore, one has to realize the mind is not limited the physical entity alone but to the whole waking or dream experiences.
One has to realize the fact the mind and the matter is one and the same thing. If the mind is there the matter is present. One has to analyze mind and taking away the three states which are ever changing or passing, he gets at soul or consciousness, the innermost self.
When one is able to make the distinction between formless witness and the three states then he will understand that, the formless substance of the three states itself is the witness of the three states. In this sense only, he will come to understand that, the consciousness is present everywhere in everything in all the three states. And no second thing exist other then consciousness. Hence, it is non-dual. Once this truth is grasped then all the theories speculated or assumed on the false self becomes meaningless.
In all mental operations there are two factors--the knowing capacity (consciousness) and that which is known. The known things (three states) are all passing away and are therefore unreal. Without the knowing capacity i.e. the knower (consciousness) in existence there could have been no such thing as knowing the three states.
Know means: - Knowing implies two factors, the knower or the knowing capacity, or that which becomes aware; and the known. Without these two factors one cannot use the word know.
One finds the known [the three states] always passes away. When one is distinguishing between knower and known, the word ego is used. When these disappear the word soul is used just to show that there is something which has not disappeared, as thoughts and objects are seen to disappear. No one can see soul appearing or disappearing. One can only say that it must have been there.
It is not the physical body alone that constitutes mind, but body plus world constitutes the mind. Mind is created out of consciousness. This one find from his deeper study on this subject.
The whole universe which contains everything is within mind. Every thought, feeling, and emotion is only "mind" and mind will pass away; it is only the "known. Deeper analysis shows the contents of mind are passing phenomena and not the knower or witness.
Soul is seeing or knowing the changes not that mind which changes. The word change is not applicable to the soul. Therefore soul is “immortal". Soul is seeing the mortal; in this sense it is called soul immortal. There cannot be two self. It is impossible. Change can have a meaning only when there is more than one. Soul being unchanging must be only One.
The changes occur because of the existence of something unchanging. The changing and the unchanging are always present. Man exists within the mind which changes every moment. Man is unaware of unchanging because he is part of the changing.
One has to base his analysis on the experience as a whole, not the individual experiences happening with in the waking or dream. Man perceives the world within the waking or dream experience. Thus, the individual experiences are within the waking or dream experience is noting to with the soul or consciousness, the innermost self.
Deep sleep also is an experience. Thus one has to take the three states for his analysis, not what is happening within the three states. Waking entity is noting to with the soul or consciousness, the innermost self. One has to trace the witness of the three states in order to realize the fact that, the three states or mere illusion. Once the formless witness is mentally traced then it becomes easier to grasp the non-dual truth. Once the formless witness is traced and realized to be the true self, then all the logical and theoretical arguments, based on false self(waking entity or ego), lose their value.
One has to value experience because but the three states and its changes, he could not possibly think of the Unchangeable or realize it. One should not attach the soul or consciousness, the innermost self to all that changes which constitutes the three states. The very fact that, one is constantly experiencing dream and deep sleep shows that experiences keeps on changing. But he is unaware of the fact that the self is not physical but it is formless spirit. Therefore, he is taking the authorship of the three states on the physical entity of the waking experience. Therefore, it is necessary to realize the fact that, the witness of the three states is not the waking entity but the formless soul, which is the true self. Therefore the meditation or Samadhi practiced on the base of waking entity will not yield wisdom, because it is practiced on the base of false self.
People are not ready to distinguish between formless witness and three states. If they knew that, their body, world everything is known, even the gods, is only illusion, and then they might perceive truth, not otherwise.
When one thinks of the individuality he is unaware of the fact that the experiences of birth, life and death are illusion. He has to know illusion as consciousness. Then only unity in diversity is possible.
Thought is only an illusion, no matter how exalted it is. Thought never touches the truth, but remains always within the illusion. One foolishly believes that the more he thinks, the more he will get; but it is really an error. It remains only a thought and gives him back only a thought. Anything known, observed, cannot be the soul, the subject.
The consciousness[soul] is the true self . The true self is the source of the the three states . These three states deceive, the people fail to look beyond them to its source, which is real, supreme and imperishable.
The three states are mere mirage/illusion. It is difficult to overcome the illusion without the wisdom. But one can cross over this illusion , by realizing and becoming aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but it is consciousness. People are deluded by illusion, because
immersed in the illusion experiencing it as reality. They are ignorant because they think the self is physical and birth, life, death and world as reality . Having lost all discrimination, they follow the way of their physical nature.
When ignorance vanishes through wisdom then only it is possible to negate the illusion, the mortal becomes immortal. When all the physical shackles that strangle the self are loosened, the mortal becomes immortal, here in this very life.
The ultimate understanding is : Nothing has actually been created. All that appears is mere mirage. Everything is consciousness and nothing can be apart of it. No second thing exists other then consciousness, neither the man nor the world , which contains all the objects.
Delete Comment Hi, Santtosh, you state above that there are three states of consciousness (waking , dreaming and deep sleep, I assume). Now there are others, such as, for example as propagated by the TM movement which are state that there is Transcendental, God , Unity Consciousness etc. which are supposed to be superior states of consciousness or dimensions in which enlightened masters live. Please note, that I am not believing this, rather questioning it. Also we know that it is the content of consciousness that has to be emptied by meditation (also as taught by K) , that gives rise to ‘pure consciousness’ which is the field of infinite potential, silence and creativity —- the level from which all physical manifestation occurs. Also science is still grappling with the logic of consciousness with many theories as it still to clearly understand the building blocks of the universe which have been dealt with in various studies given by Einstien ,Schrodinger and the like. So when you say consciousness is everything, do you mean consciousness ‘emptied of its content?’ or is it something beyond our experiencing. If it is beyond our experiencing, then how can it become a living reality in one’s life?
Delete Comment Santtosh, What you say echoes Tibetan Buddhism, and the higher yoga tantras, especially Mahamudra. Essentially you are correct. They are ignorant because they think the self is physical and birth, life, death and world as reality . To this I would respectfully add... Ignorance is not the absence of anything. It is relative only in reference to enlightenment. When ignorance vanishes, so does enlightenment. Those who suffer do not do so willingly, for they are insane. Yet even so, this moment is indeed perfect as it is. As Guru Rinpoche, Padmasambhava said: "Why try to enlighten the world? It is impossible! Enlighten yourself, first. Now, the whole world is enlightened! It is true that nothing has been created. It is self-arisen perfection. Only illusion appears to the ignorant, which is fascinating to me, because the ignorant themselves are illusion.
Delete Comment yes, world is illusory,Remaining in the world but not of the world is wisdom,i suppose.To get at this may be difficult, but not impossible.Conciousness is there everywhere,and to feel that one is conciousness only is wisdom.
Delete Comment Hi Praveen, Thank you, All the three states together is illusion. The substance and witness of the illusion is consciousness. The fourth states is mere speculation based on the waking entity. Whatever is based on the waking entity is bound to be falsehood because waking experience itself is part of the illusion. Seeker has to distinguish between the consciousness[ soul/true self], and the mind. The mind , being mere mirage, appears, disappears and reappears. Consciousness the substance and witness of the mirage. Due to ignorance mirage is experienced as reality. If consciousness remains in its formless nature , the mirage disappears and the delusion, which creates sense of reality will vanish. Same way as dream, becomes unreal when waking takes place. The waking also becomes unreal when one realizes the fact that, the self is not physical body but it is consciousness. The nature of the consciousness is like an ocean, and the mind is like wave. If one views on the standpoint of ocean everything is water. If one views it on the standpoint of wave one finds only waves. Similarly if one views and judges on the standpoint of the consciousness[spirit/soul/self] everything is consciousness[spirit]. If one views and judges on the standpoint of physical self it is full of diversity. The truth has to be viewed and judged on the base of consciousness[soul], not on the base of 'physical self'[ego]. To know “what is truth”, and “what is untruth” can be decided only when one is fully aware of the fact that, the self is not physical , but the self is consciousness[soul]. Man and his experience of the world together is mind. One is not ware of the fact that individual experiences[man+world] are happening within the mind. The birth, life and death are happening with in the mind[illusion] . Everyone thinks the mind is within the body is the cause of the ignorance . One has to overcome this ignorance through perfect understanding. Until one thinks the mind is within the body he will never be able to understand the ultimate truth. Man is not the author of the three states. Therefore, it is necessary to trace the author of the three states to know the fact that , the author of the three states is formless and apart. The formless author[It] is within the three states and it is apart from the three states. It is apart because it is not an entity or identity with in the three states, because it pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states. This is very difficult to grasp but by constant reflecting on the subjects it seeps in. It is erroneous to judge the truth on the base of physical self, because the physical self [ego] and the world, are within the 'mind'. Thus it is very much necessary to to know the knower of the mind ,which appears as waking or dream and disappears as deep sleep in order to unfold the mystery of the mind or duality. The consciousness[soul] is the formless knower of the mind that appears as waking or dream[duality] and disappears s deep sleep[non-duality]. Thus it is erroneous to take physical self [ego] as real self, judging the truth is incorrect, because the ego is within the mind. Thus, it is necessary to discover and realize the the fact that true self is not physical but it is consciousness. The truth has to be grasped mentally by constant reflecting on the subject again and again. Knowing the consciousness is the formless substance and witness of the 'mind' is very much essential to know “what is truth” and “what is not truth”. If the mind exists only duality exists. If there is no mind, then there is no duality. If there is no duality, it is the true nature of the consciousness[soul] . When the consciousness[soul] in its true nature , there is neither the person, nor the world exists. The consciousness prevails as non-dual existence. Only through wisdom, the one realizes the true nature of the consciousness and realizes the fact that , the diversity is mere mirage created out of consciousness and becomes free from experiencing the mirage as reality. Until one thinks the birth, life and death as reality he is accepting the mirage as reality. If one accepts the mirage as reality then the ultimate understanding is impossibility. Therefore. it is very much necessary to understand and assimilate the truth very systematically by one’s own reason, without the aid of the any teaching and theories. My writing is only pointers towards the truth. The seeker has to verify whatever I have claimed and if he finds them as un-contradictable truth then only accept it. Waking also as unreal real as dream. one has to become fully aware in the midst of the waking experience the three states are created out consciousness. Knowing everything as consciousness, nothing but consciousness is non-dual wisdom. Non-dual wisdom cannot be got from physical practice but through mantle effort by inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the base of consciousness as self. When one is free from the accumulated knowledge and inherited conditioning, then he is heading towards the reality of his true existence. B Meditation is not the means, to go beyond the mind . All types of mediation which are physical based are theories. Mediation is not the means to self realization or to acquire non-dual wisdom. The physical based meditation is trying to imitate non dual nature of the self, in order to get peace. But its results are temporary. When one finishes his meditation then again he confronts duality. Going beyond all theories and realizing the fact that the self is not physical but self is consciousness , leads towards Self-knowledge. Meditation is helpful to overcome the stress of worldly life. But it is not the tool to go beyond the mind. By realizing the consciousness as self, the mind enters consciously into the meditative non dual nature and becomes one with it. Thus true meditation is not indulging in physical based theoretical meditation, but consciously entering the non dual meditative nature of the true self. Seeking truth is nothing to do with theories or meditation. Pursuit of truth is to acquire the non- dual wisdom and enter the meditative nature of the self consciously. The people who try to search the truth with their physical eyes and intellect , will remain stagnant with their meditation practices, and will not be able to go beyond the experience of duality or mind. There is no forth state . The beyond is within the three states and the beyond is without the three states. The state of witness is not the fourth state: Witness state is that in which all the three states erupt and merges. The witness [KNOWER] is that which sees the appearance and disappearance of the three states. The yogi and religionists do not attain freedom from experience of duality by repeated practice, because they are working with physical entity, whereas wisdom is the work of the reasoning based on the true self. The religionists and yogis desire peace so does not attain wisdom. Santthosh
Delete Comment Santtosh, thank-you very much for detailed description, which is by no means easy to digest for people caught in the ‘maya’ of the world (like me). It was enlightening just reading it ! But I would like to question if (or how) the fourth state exists (or not). How does a person who has attained the knowledge of the world illusion, still being forced to participate in the world (to earn a living, run his family etc.) and also (apparently) affected by pleasure and pain, perceive the world. Is it like some one realizing the dream is a dream and continuing to dream (?) Maybe James could shed some light on the Buddhist perspective of this.
Delete Comment Thank you, James and Reiko, What I am saying is noting to do with tanatra, mantra or yantra. My Tibetan friends do not agree with me because what I say is something is not belongs to their school of thought. The Tibetan Buddhism is not pure Buddhism. It is mixed with the Bon religion. Yes , I agree with you both . Ignorance is not absence of consciousness[anything]. But absence of ignorance is the presence of the reality. The of ignorance and enlightenment is idea within the illusion. In reality there is neither ignorance nor enlightenment. There is no moment in reality. The present moment cannot exist without the past and future because time is part and parcel of illusion. Where there is no form, time and space ,it is reality. Where is “me” and “the others” to get enlightened when world , which contains “me” and “others” itself is mere illusion. The enlightenment within the illusion is to realize fact that , the illusion is never exited and never existing and ever exits, in the realm of truth. When ignorance is part and parcel of illusion. The ignorance and illusion appear together and disappear together. Conscious disappearance happens through wisdom and unconscious disappearance happens in deep sleep or death. You both are very near to the wisdom, your reasoning faculty will lead to your destination. I enjoy interacting with you both. Take care Love, respect and regards Santthosh
Delete Comment Hi Kant, If the world is illusory the birth, life and death ,which is happening within the world also illusory. Thus the understanding and misunderstanding on the base of the birth entity is also part of the illusion. Whatever prevails without the illusion is ultimate reality, which is consciousness . The consciousness is the formless substance and witness of the illusion.
Delete Comment When the one realizes the fact that, the self is not form but formless he realizes the burden and bondage of duality is not on form but on the formless. Since, one is practices to be the form with name he feels that he is caught up in illusion. Man of truth considers the illusion is passing show. Until our attention is there on the physical self ,we bound to remain in illusion experiencing the ups and down as reality. But by constant reflecting on the formless substance and witness[soul] one start getting non-dual tranquility. One finds it difficult because , it takes time to drop the accumulated dross from the subconscious . Once the subconscious becomes receptive then it starts accepting the truth and rejects the untruth and one becomes soul -centric. The dream becomes unreal, when waking takes palace. Similarly the waking also becomes unreal when the wisdom dawns. All the present individual experiences happening within the waking is becomes unreal, when one becomes aware of the consciousness is the true self. The wisdom makes one realize the fact that, everything is consciousness in the midst of illusion and he becomes free from the burden and bondage of duality realizing the burden and bondage of illusion[waking] is not on him but on the formless soul. The intoxication of illusion/duality is thousand time more then the liquor. Once this intoxication is overcome by the sword of wisdom, then the one will realize there is neither burden, nor bondage, because everything is consciousness, there is no duality at all . Knowing this truth, the truth sets one free from experiencing the illusion as reality. It takes time to understand because one does not get it just by reading what I write, but thinking about it and reflecting about it constantly, makes one gradually receptive to Self-knowledge.
Delete Comment Santtosh, The "content" of consciousness, is illusory, but constitutes the "relative truth" of Buddha. It is also the "Kingdom of Heaven." As Jesus said in the Gospel of Thomas: "Behold, the Kingdom of heaven is spread upon the Earth, but people don't see it." Heaven includes the dual and non-dual as a single wholeness, just as unconditioned consciousness does. Whatever name we give it, doesn't change it. Unconditioned consciousness experiences without an experiencer, and it does self-recognize by its own goodness and joy, which it spontaneously knows in all objects that appear. There is no uncertainty in this. The "absolute truth" of both Buddhism and Bon recognizes, as does advaita, there is finally no separation between form and formless. For those lost in illusion, these paths are blessings. For those beyond all conditions, these paths are illusion. Understanding and not understanding are not two different things. The relative and the absolute are not two different things. The formless and form are not two different things. Given this, the view is perfection. For example, Dzogchen is approached by the seeker as a path. The practitioner finally must understand duality as oneself. The realized "master" has already dissolved into their nature, and is beyond these observations or considerations. In that, meditation is indeed, not a path. It is itself, one's own unconditioned naturalness, the view of the non-dual, observing the non-dual, AS IT IS. Nothing changes, nor should it. Unconditioned consciousness, perception, unconditional goodness and love, the space of awareness, meditation with no meditator, experience with no experiencer... these are the qualities of that single wholeness which is both everything and nothing, and one's own heart. :-)
Delete Comment Dear James and Reiko Thank you so much, really it is convincing. in my personal research i found many insights in bible. but people interpret on the physical base therefor there true essence is lost. as per my collected notes :- BUDDHISM: Buddha was a Gnani, but his interpreters are not. Buddha did not enter into scriptural interpretation. So the Hindus threw him out of their religion. Sankara however although he agreed in nearly all points with Buddha, was a tactician and wanted to teach these truths within the Hindu fold. Hence he did in Rome as Rome does! He made himself outwardly appear as an orthodox Hindu, and thus secured his aim. Buddhism has failed through misunderstanding Gotama and believing that nothing is left to exist after Nirvana. What is it that sees the illusory nature of the finite ego? This is what the Buddhists need to answer and cannot on their theories. Only Advaita can reply: it is the Drik, the Seer. The Buddhists are in error in regarding the finite ego as illusory, and as having nothing more behind it: but they would have been perfectly correct in such outlook had they added the notion of the Drik. How is it that Skandas come together and compose the ego? Who sees them come and go? It is the Drik, the Atman, and this lack Vedanta supplies in the Drg Drsya Viveka Analysis. When they say that mind comes and goes they are forgetting that there must be another part of the mind as consciousness which notices it and which tells them of this disappearance and appearance. All their misunderstandings arise from the fact that Buddha refused to discuss ultimate questions. When Buddhism degenerates into Nihilism we refute it (See Mandukya P.281). The truth of a single reality within or underlying the illusory ego is all-important and without it Buddhism becomes fallacious. Vedanta admits the transitoriness and evanescence of thoughts just like Buddhism, but not of the Mind which observes this transitoriness and knows it. Buddhists borrowed from Upanishads because they were Indians. The Vedantins did not need to borrow from Buddhism therefore (see P.396 v.99 of Mandukya Up) Buddha taught the illusoriness of ego, but did not go farther probably because he thought the world could not understand the higher truth. Hence followers go with him to that point of his, and then deny the Vedantic doctrine of one supreme reality when Buddha himself neither denied nor advocated it. Anyway the refutation of his followers is to ask them “What is it that is aware of the ego's illusoriness?" There must be something that tells you that. That something is the Drik, and if you say this Drik itself may be illusory, coming and going, still there must be something non-transient i.e. permanent, to tell you this. The ZEN Buddhist "Koan" exercises are known and taught in India; only privately and individually. We disagree with Buddhists (Vijnanavadin) only on the Ultimate question, but we agree with their idealism fully. Even when you say "I am not" you are thinking. Hence every thought means positing some existence. To exist is to be thought of hence our criticism of Sunyavada which says there is nothing. In saying "There is nothing" they are unconsciously positing something. The thought of nothing is an existence itself. Hence only by refraining from thought can they state their case. The thought itself is an object. The negation of existence is a thought. The presence of an object means duality. Hence this proves that the Sunyavadins never understood non-duality, ie. Brahman. Buddhism and Bergson agree in thinking that the ego sees itself; they do not admit there is anything that sees the ego: they say there is no proof that any witness exists. When thoughts are there, thoughts become conscious of themselves. Our criticism is that these skandhas which appear and disappear, are drsyam only. Drg Drsya Viveka must be brought in here. ZEN may get a flash of peace but that is not the same as Vedantin who realizes that the whole world is yourself. Zen is mysticism. Ignorant commentators say Sankara and Gaudapada borrowed their ideas from Buddhism. But in Mandukya (page 281) these two declare they are not Buddhists, only a number of their ideas agree with those of Buddhism, whilst they point out their difference of view from Sunyavada Buddhists and Vijnanavadins. Thus Sankara and Gaudapada both agree and disagree with Buddhists. Sunyavadins say there is nothing, neither matter nor mind: they are nihilists. How do they know mind ceases to exist? Where is the proof. When you know everything is mind, both the changing forms and the underlying substances how can you posit its real change into nothingness? Mind, Brahman always remains really itself because of its nature. We see change every minute but by inquiry into nature of change and cause, we see that it is only when we imagine that there is cause and change. The distinction between Sankara's Advaita and Vijnanavadin Buddhism is that the former is mentalism i.e. mind is the real, whereas the latter is idealism, i.e. ideas are real. We follow the former. Buddhism did not graduate its teaching to suit people of varying grades; hence its failure to affect society in Asia. Buddha's teachings that all life is misery belongs to the relative standpoint only. For you cannot form any idea of misery without contrasting it with its opposite, happiness. The two will always go together. Buddha taught the goal of cessation of misery, i.e. peace, but took care not to discuss the ultimate standpoint for then he would have had to go above the heads of the people and tell them that misery itself was only an idea, that peace even was an idea (for it contrasted with peacelessness). That the doctrine he gave out was a limited one, is evident because he inculcated compassion. Why should a Buddhist sage practice pity? There is no reason for it. Advaita is the next step higher than Buddhism because it gives the missing reason, viz. unity, non-difference from others, and because it explains that it used the concept of removing the sufferings of others, of lifting them up to happiness, only as we use one thorn to pick out another, afterwards throw both away. Similarly Advaita discards both concepts of misery and happiness in the ultimate standpoint of non-duality, which is indescribable. Buddhists say that a thing exists only for a moment, and if that thing has still got some of the substance from which it was produced how then can they deny that its cause is continuing in the effect; hence its existence is more than a moment. Vedanta is concerned with whether it is one and the same thing which has come into being, or has it come out of nothing. Even the Sunyavada ultimate of the "void" is really a breath, and therefore an imagination and not truth. Buddha as a constructive worker committed an error in failing to give the masses a religion, something tangible they could grasp, something materialistic, if symbolic that their limited intellect could take hold of, in addition to his ethics and philosophy. Here Sri Ramakrishna was wiser and gave religion; such as Kirtan, puja etc.--to the ignorant masses, as well as Advaita to those like Vivekananda. Buddha gave as the central feature of his doctrine the great law of Karma in order to reiterate its ethical meaning. He did more good in this to uplift the people than the ritualists. Why Suzuki e has failed to influence the Japanese in practicing Zen, whether it is because Zen Buddhism has degenerated into religion instead of philosophy. Tibetan and Chinese Buddhists who say that there are many Buddhas living in spirit bodies and helping our earth from the spiritual world are still in the sphere of religious illusion, not ultimate truth. Their statements are wrong. Every sage realizes that the only way to help mankind is to come down amongst them, for which he must necessarily take on flesh-body. When people are suffering how can he relieve their suffering unless he appears amongst them? When people are suffering how can he feed them from an unseen world whether their struggle be for material bread or for spiritual truth? No! He must be here actually in the flesh. It is impossible to help them in any other way and all talk of Shiva living on Mount Kailas in spiritual body or Buddha in Nirmanakaya, invisible body belongs to the realm of delusion or self-deception. Santthosh
Delete Comment Santtosh, appreciate your above answer, it's awsome, no doubt ! But still a simple dichotomy exists; when one realizes that the world is nothing but oneself; where is the question of 'saving' the world and mankind by propogating religion ? Everything including Buddah, Shankara, Mount Kailas etc, etc are within oneself, right?
Delete Comment Santtosh, Beauty has no "faithful following" nor doctrine. A child experiences this long before its reason dawns. Wisdom shuns the wise, who have mastered knowledge. How then their "achievement?" Regarding that unconditioned awareness called, "the natural state," one can say, "It's real, it exists." but is doesn't actually. Alternatively, as the "sourceless source," it is the origin of the limitless joy of Heaven here and now, and the suffering of "samsara." In the Dzogchen tantras, it is described as "being cherished alike in the Eleven Vehicles." I would agree, though one must first discover for themselves, objectless awareness. Of course its names are endless, depending on the comparing mind which regards it. I prefer, "ordinary awareness." However, each moniker has its purpose for the seeker or practitioner. Thus, Alaya, "the basis of everything," rings closely to the, "kunzhi" (base) of Bon Dzogchen. The Buddhists have adulterated Dzogchen, insisting it is Buddhist, even to the point of creating people who never existed, supposedly Buddhist, who were the source of Dzogchen. How childish. Bon othe the other hand makes no such claims (nor does it have any religious apologists), to be anything other than what it is. I find its logic lucid, and obvious. Padmasambhava, so revered of Buddhists, was never lotus-born, but was himself, born of a renown Bon Dzogchen master. When Bon was persecuted almost to extinction, Padmasambhava quietly taught Dzogchen to the Nyingmas, who passed it on to the other schools in succession. Politically (here the ego involved is clear), and publicly, Dzogchen was ridiculed, especially by the Gelugpas. Finally, during the lifetime of the 5th Dalai Lama, it was given its due, and was (reluctantly) embraced by the mainstream of Tibetan Buddhists, though it was secretly taught and enthusiastically embraced for centuries before! Every sage realizes that the only way to help mankind is to come down amongst them, for which he must necessarily take on flesh-body. When people are suffering how can he relieve their suffering unless he appears amongst them? When people are suffering how can he feed them from an unseen world whether their struggle be for material bread or for spiritual truth? No! He must be here actually in the flesh. It is impossible to help them in any other way and all talk of Shiva living on Mount Kailas in spiritual body or Buddha in Nirmanakaya, invisible body belongs to the realm of delusion or self-deception. You are correct, although I also understand that Dzogchen works for people who are at different levels. Some need "Buddhas inhabiting bodies..." to understand enough to take the next steps. If it works for them, and they are practicing, finally getting beyond such stuff, it's good. As for Nirmanakaya, there is a direct way of seeing it as Dharmakaya and Sambogakaya, and that is by letting mind remain in its own natural state, without constructing anything. It's obvious they, and the view, are one, as is the viewer. In 1990, I spent two months in Tibet, a week of which was on Kailas. There I was (quite unexpectedly) initiated into Bon Shamanism, and the understanding of how duality and non-duality are not two aspects of anything. Indeed, natural presence flowed into itself within me, and I found the mountain and I had always been one. The view from the center of the swastika on the face of Kailas, my friend, the view.
Delete Comment Hi Praveen, It is from my collected notes . Please vomit all the physicality from it. It was Buddha who was the first to declared non dual truth 2500 years back, but still somewhere with all its grandeur, there is some missing link . 1400 years ago Sri Sankara e declared non dual truth again. Sri, Sankara declared jagan mitya , brahma satya -- it was a great declaration indeed but still it is been misinterpreted by many and there is a missing link in Advith. Until one searches the missing link it is impossible to assimilate the Advitic truth. I am not propagating Buddhism or Adavith, because neither the Buddhism nor the Advita in the present form will take one to the ultimate end, until one finds the missing link, as per my personal study. When Sri,Sankara says world unreal. To me, it means the birth, life and death which takes place with in the world also is unreal. He says the Ataman is Brahman – it means the soul is ultimate truth. Thus whatever prevails without the birth, life and death and the world is reality. To realize this truth one has to drop, concept of god, religion and scriptures. It may be one of the reason, K also dropped religion, scriptures and concept of god. Without dropping religion, concept of god and scriptures, it becomes difficult to move forward in pursuit of truth. Buddha ,Sankara ,God, Mount Kailash, world or whatever seen, known, all deeds, and experiences experienced as a person are within the mind. The truth is beyond the mind. The beyond is within the mind but it is without the mind. Thus, the ultimate truth is consciousness, it is within the mind and it is without the mind. To realize the non dual truth nothing is needed other then knowing “what is mind” and “what is substance of the mind”. Because of mind everything that exits, without the mind consciousness alone exists as eternal existence. Without wisdom the ignorance cannot be dropped. without dropping the ignorance the illusion will prevail as reality. This my conviction derived from deeper self-search. With respect and regards Santthosh
Delete Comment Dear James and Reiko, It is really a coincidence, while I am reading a book, the wisdom of lotus sutra and same time I am reading about it in our discussion. I thank you so much, and your writing is very much convincing . I respect every teacher or teaching. I really admire your spiritual adventure and time and effort you have spent with the great masters and mastered the wisdom in your chosen path. It is really amazing. I appreciate your views and agree with many of your views but I do not want to be judgemental on the sacred spiritual pearls of lotus sutra. My views and conviction is: As per my conviction by indulging in meditation one does not get at ultimate truth. One has to think hard to remove the ignorance. The rope does not give birth to the snake. The rope is that which causes apprehension of the snake. That is all. Objects of imaginations alone has birth, life and death and not the soul/consciousness, which is not an object of imagination. Those who are incapable to discriminate between subject and object take different path. Both subject and object are consciousness, not subject alone. The non-dual truth never changes. The nature of truth is this: It can never be changed under any circumstances. It may be misrepresented. It must apply to the whole of existence, to all the three states. It is in the mind alone that has all changes The witness remains unchanged. The witness, as such remains immortal. It can never die for it never changes. The the three states are an object to the subject, and they come and go, but the seer or knower of the three states, can never go. The seer can never be subject to the changes of the object; it is unchanged. The mistake usually made is that subject becomes object, or that object is subject. If one want to have absence of contradictions, absence of duality, there must be one entity. If one has a thought there is contradiction between subject and object, for "thought" is object. The distinction imply contradiction. The distinction implies that two things are not the same, hence duality exists there. Only in ignorance one feels the soul is different from the mind. In ignorance the Soul is only a mental picture. People say I am god I am immortal they are saying it in ignorance. They are unaware of the fact that, the soul, which is in the form of consciousness is the true self . Until they become aware of the fact that, the consciousness is the true self , the realization of the truth is impossibility. Objects never reach soul . Commoner never knows the fact that, the soul is the true self. The who says he has a vision of the highest or describes it as supra-mental etc. does not understand Atman, because it is free from imaginations. Ordinarily knowledge arises from experience of object by a subject; that all knowledge of objects will only lead to more thinking but never give one ultimate reality. Most people think by trying and getting more and still more objective experience and then when they have enough he may get reality.” One can never get at ultimate truth that way, because it leads to endless thoughts and because it ignores the the formless witness of the three states. One must make the inquiry into the nature of the mind to find the ultimate truth. There is no need to give up its investigations into objects; they are useful empirically; but only that one should not delude himself that this is the correct path to final reality. Love, respect and regards Santthosh
