By watching the thoughts, ignorance will not vanish.+

By watching the thoughts,  ignorance will not vanish. Till ignorance is present the thoughts are bound to rise. The ignorance vanishes only when one realizes the form, time and space are one in essence.   

Thoughts come and go to the waking entity. Without the waking entity, the thoughts will not arise.  Thought will not form without the time and space. 

Form, time, and space cease to exist without the universe. The universe ceases to exist without the waking experience. Waking experience ceases to exist without the mind.  Mind ceases to exist without the formless soul or consciousness, the innermost self.

Thoughts arise only to the individual whereas the ‘self’ is not an individual because it pervades everything and everywhere in all three states.  Thus by watching thoughts one does not enter Self-Awareness. Watching thoughts is only a physical-based theory.

Deeper self-search reveals the fact that the self is neither the waking entity nor the self is a dream entity but the self is the formless soul, which witnesses the coming and going of the three states in succession.   

There is no use in watching the thoughts as waking entities ( you or ego)  because the waking entity is the false self, within the false experience.   Thus it is necessary to realize the fact that, the self is within the three states but it is apart from the three states.  

Advaitic Wisdom consists in knowing the truth, that everything [mind or physical existence] is consciousness. Freedom [truth] is always there yet one does not know it.  But to those whose reason is turned away from physicality and who have attained the serenity of the soul/self [consciousness] are quite near to the ultimate truth. 

To think once own body and his experience of the world is an illusion is a difficult matter, unless one realizes the self is not physical but it is a formless soul it is difficult to have a glimpse of truth. 

When one realizes the fact that, the self is not physical but self is a formless Soul that naturally the body and the universe becomes an illusion.

The mind [universe] is emanating from the Soul [consciousness] means the mind is being effect from consciousness is not different from it. 

A deeper analysis shows it. Analysis needs deeper thinking and reasoning. Mind is the whole universe thus it has a form. But where is the form in consciousness [soul] because consciousness is like an ocean and mind is like a wave?  The universe is the same consciousness, as the ocean produces the wave, so the consciousness produces the mind [universe].

The moment one knows the mind [universe] is consciousness, and then there is no ignorance. If one knows consciousness as self then everything is consciousness, the consciousness is second to none.  The mind is consciousness but due to ignorance one mistakes it for something else. One thinks the self is within the body, but the self is without the body and the world. 

The mind ceases to exist without the matter. Without the matter, the mind ceases to exist as the mind but it exists as matter- less awareness or consciousness. Without the mind, neither the world nor its perceiver can exist.

Without the matter, there is no duality. Without duality, there is no experience. Without experience, it is a non-dual reality. Therefore, whatever prevails without the mind is the ultimate reality.

The true nature of the soul or consciousness is camouflaged by the dualistic illusion.  To know the truth one has to discover and realize the formless substance of the mind or illusion. 

One has to learn to view and judge the worldview from the standpoint of the formless soul as self.   Self-Knowledge is the prime goal of the truth seeker. This goal is hidden within the mind as its invisible substance and witness. Therefore, it is necessary to inquiry, analyze and reason into the nature of mind or duality or illusion in order to unfold the mystery of mind or duality or illusion.

It is difficult to acquire Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana till one drops all accumulated knowledge.  all paths do no lead to Self-Awareness. 

That is why Buddha said:-

Do not believe in spiritual teaching just because:-

1. It is repeatedly recited,

2. It is written in scripture,

3. It was handed from guru to disciple,

4. Everyone around you believes it,

5. it has supernatural qualities,

6. It fits my beliefs anyway,

7. It sounds rational to me,

8. It is taught by a respectable person,

9. It was said to be the truth by the teacher,

10. One must defend it or fight for it.

However, only when it agrees with your experience and reason, and when it is conducive to the good and gain of oneself and all others, then one should accept the teachings, and live up to them."

....Buddha.

THE BOOK IS NOT THE PROOF OF YOUR CONDUCT, BUT YOU ARE THE PROOF OF THE BOOK.

Intellect is like limbs without the power of locomotion. It is only when a feeling enters and gives them motion that they move and work on others. That is so all over the world, and it is a thing which you must always remember. It is one of the most practical things in Vedantic morality, for it is the teaching of the Vedanta that you are all prophets, and all must be prophets. The book is not the proof of your conduct, but you are the proof of the book.  - Swami Vivekananda  The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda/Volume 2/Practical Vedanta and other lectures/Practical Vedanta: Part 1

In the modern world, people are sharp enough to understand and assimilate the ultimate truth or Brahman or God in truth. Thus it is high time to discard the knowledge based on the false self (waking entity or ego) and move ahead to realize the ultimate truth, which is Brahman or God.  

Upanishad says: - They alone in this world are endowed with the highest wisdom who are firm in their conviction of the sameness and birthlessness of Ataman. The ordinary man does not understand their way. [Chapter IV — Alatasanti Prakarana 95-P-188 in Upanishads by Nikilanada]

Therefore, if one is seeking truth he has to know his true self is not physical but it is the Atman, which is in the form of consciousness. :~Santthosh Kumaar 

Meditation is not the means to Self–Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.+

What is the use of doing meditation on the base of the waking entity, which is the false self within the false experience? 

Meditation is not the means to Self–Knowledge or  Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. Meditation is not the goal itself because it is practiced on the base false self (waking entity or ego) within the false experience (waking). Meditation is not the means to Self –Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.

Meditation is a good and valuable tool in practical life within the practical world to overcome the stress of practical life.   It is an important and useful tool to quiet the physical –mind or ego and emotions. 

Once the turbulent tendencies of the physical mind or ego and emotions are brought into harmony, clarity and renewed strength are available to meet and overcome each life challenge as it presents itself in practical life. Thus meditation and yoga are useful as preparatory stages in pursuit of truth.  

Meditation will not eliminate our life challenges but can enable us to harmonize our physical –mind or ego and emotions and to focus that energy like a powerful beam of light on the challenges that lie ahead in practical life with the practical world.  But seeker has to realize the fact that, the practical life within the practical world is nothing to do with the formless soul, the innermost self, which is beyond form, time, and space.  

Wisdom dawns only when ignorance vanishes. Ignorance vanishes only when the waking entity (ego) becomes aware of the fact that it itself is not the self. Thus by practicing meditation on the false self within the false experience the ignorance will remain deeply rooted.  

Thus, all physical-based paths and practices are not the means to acquire Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.  Thus trying to acquire Self-Knowledge through meditation and other yogic practices is like trying to catch fish in the desert sand.

Most of the dualistic sages approach was more practical, and they stuck with the reality of the world, they took it as real.  Whereas Sage Sankara says: one must first know what is before him. If he cannot know that, what else can he know or understand? If he gives up the external world in his inquiry, he cannot get the whole truth.

[63. Without causing the objective universe to vanish and without knowing the truth of the Self, how is one to achieve Liberation by the mere utterance of the word Brahman? — It would result merely in an effort of speech.[ Sage Sankara says in V C]  

Yoga Vasishta, says: - that the world is both real and unreal. It is real because it is a manifestation of consciousness, but is unreal, in the sense, that it is not absolute and eternal like consciousness itself.

One becomes many and many become one. One exists as, ultimate truth or Brahman. That ultimate truth is formless Soul or consciousness.  The Soul becomes the universe and the universe becomes the Soul.  Thus the soul or consciousness is not limited to a physical entity within the universe because it pervades everything and everywhere in all three states.  Thus limiting the soul or consciousness to the physical entity is the cause of ignorance.  All the teachers and teachings of the world stuck up limiting the Soul to the physical entity or ego and base their theories on the physical entity alone. 

Even in Buddhism: - Buddhist teaching has itself become a kind of interactive and self-evolving process, much like its idea of pratityasamutpada. However, the end goal is still Nirvana, which is an experience ultimately beyond all concepts and language, even beyond the Buddhist teachings. In the end, even the attachment to the Dharma, the Buddhist teaching, must be dropped like all other attachments. The tradition compares the teaching to a raft upon which one crosses a swift river to get to the other side; once one is on the far shore; there is no longer any need to carry the raft. The far shore is Nirvana, and it is also said that when one arrives, one can see quite clearly that there was never any river at all.

The scriptures and theories and teaching based on the ego are not yardsticks. Using them as a yardstick to understand and assimilate the truth will lead one towards the pursuit of arguments. The seeker of truth has to discover on his own, the truth of his true existence by inquiring “what is mind?” and “what is the substance of the mind?” and move forward.  

The ultimate truth is one without the second, the one is not in the sense half or two, but the one that remains forever One, without the second.  The consciousness is all-pervading. There is no place where consciousness is not. 

Consciousness is in everyone, consciousness is in everything .consciousness is one behind many. Consciousness alone is. It means the universe is the visible form of consciousness.:~Santthosh Kumaar 

All the physical based theories of creation and creator, Avatar, karma, individualized God, rituals, code of conducts are meant for the people who are unable to think and reason deeply.

According to Upanishads the Self-knowledge  or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is the main aim of human being. All the physical based theories of creation and creator, Avatar, karma, individualized God, rituals, code of conducts   are meant  for the people who are unable to think and reason deeply.  

  Since, there are diverse  schools of thoughts, which claim themselves  as Vedic  based are propagating non- Vedic  practices as Vedic practices , everything is  adulterated with new add-ons time to time. thus it is very difficult come out from cobweb of confession  because  confusion  each seems to be correct on their won standpoint.

 Many teachings  theories introduced in the past by many sages and gurus in the past , which are accepted by the mass.  all these teaching  and theories are not the means to acquire Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. 

Buddha was right in saying :-

Do not believe a spiritual teaching just because:-

1. It is repeatedly recited,
2. It is written in a scripture,
3. It was handed from guru to disciple,
4. everyone around you believes it,
5. It has supernatural qualities,
6. It fits my beliefs anyway,
7. It sounds rational to me,
8. It is taught by a respectable person,
9. It was said to be the truth by the teacher,
10. One must defend it or fight for it.

However, only when it agrees with your experience and reason, and when it is conducive to the good and gain of oneself and all others, then one should accept the teachings, and live up to them."

The truth does not require any tag of some guru or teaching, the serious seekers who are tired of all the theories, paths and practices and find them inadequate and useless, will turn towards the perennial springs of spiritual truth, to quench their spiritual thirst. For those who are advanced in the spiritual pursuit, will find the entire spiritual tags and branded paths and practices are inadequate and useless, in pursuit of truth.

Deeper self-search revels the fact that, the Atman ,body and world are one in essence therefore no second thing exists other than Atman, which is in the form of consciousness.  Thus realizing all the three states as consciousness leads to Self-Awareness.

That is why Sri, Sankara indicated in (VC): -

65. As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a knower of Brahman, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted arguments.

 

66. Therefore the wise should, as in the case of disease and the like, personally strive by all the means in their power to be free from the bondage of repeated births and deaths.

Seeker of truth has to direct realization of the true self, through deeper self-search and avoid losing precious time and effort loosing himself in philosophical studies. 

The path of religion, theory of karma, path of yoga and the path of wisdom were intended for different classes of people. The wisdom is for the advanced seekers of truth. It deals with the nature of the ultimate Truth and Reality. It is meant for superior aspirants who have inner urge to know the truth and it is not for those who are immersed in earthly desires.

Thus we have to know the fact that Buddha, Goudpada and Sri,Sankara are not only reformers but also  the greatest  scientists. Since there original thesis have been lost in the labyrinths of philosophy and mutilated by pundits and orthodoxy, it becomes very difficult understand and assimilate the wisdom expounded by the great masters. In addition, the conservativeness of the orthodox scholars will not allow any research other than playing with the words, which suits the mass mind sets, because of their egocentric outlook.

 All the add-ons have to be deleted, in order to understand and assimilate the real fragrance of the wisdom expounded by the great masters of Advith, but it is hurricane task.  Thus, it is no use going through all the scriptures, when there is direct path to non-dual truth.  The same time and effort can be used to reach the non-dual destination, in lesser time and effort. 

  

Non-duality does not need the support of any Scripture or Revelation like the Veda. For it is based, not upon the varying theological fancies, which are as numerous as the sands of the sea, but upon reason, the common heritage of all mankind, irrespective of colour or creed or clime.

Seeker of truth has to know that something is inadequate in Buddhist or orthodox Advaitic teachings to reach the nondual destination because of the add-ons and adulteration. Thus it becomes difficult to reach destination directed by the Buddha, Sri, Sankara and Sri,Goudapada.  It is for the seeker to go on his own and remove the obstacle.  The greatest hindrance is mixing religion, god, scriptures, and yogic theories. Moreover, attachment to scriptures, personal god and religious code of conduct keeps one permanently in the grip of duality.

 

Religion, belief in God, is an escape from realizing ultimate reality.  Belief in god and belief system blocks one's realization of ultimate truth or Brahman.

People of various walks of life believe in their inherited belief system and its idea of God. People indulge in God and guru glorification to symbolize that they are religious people. 

Religion makes one believe that, the practical life within the practical world as reality.  By believing the practical life within the practical world as reality one is bound to believe, the experience of the birth, life, death and the world as reality.  By believing in the experience of  birth, life, death and the world as reality one is accepting the false self (waking entity or ego) as true self and  the illusory  world(waking) as reality). By accepting the false self as real self and illusory world as reality, one is accepting the experience of the form, time and space as reality. By accepting the experience of the form, time and space as reality one is accepting   illusion or mind or universe or waking as reality. 

Religion and its idea of God make one, more and more egocentric.   Egocentricity makes one feel he is an individual separate from the world and world existed prior to him and he is born in this world afterwards.  Thus this conviction or condition or samskara is so deep rooted therefore it is impossible acquire Self-Knowledge or brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. 

Religion is tool for   giving   samskara or conditioning to be, to behave, to believe, to live according to its code of conduct, in family and society to live peacefully honestly loving the humanity with the fear of GOD.  Thus region is belief centric not truth centric.  

  

Religion makes one getting stuck with the reality of the practical life within the practical world. Religion is nothing to do with the Self-knowledge or brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana because it is based on the formless soul, which is the innermost self, whereas religion is based on the form or waking entity (ego).   Therefore mixing religion with spirituality or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana and trying to realize the truth is like trying to find snow in the desert.    

The path and practices and theories based on the waking entity or ego are not the means to Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana

The one which wakes up dreams and sleeps is not the innermost self,  because the innermost self is formless soul.  The one which is aware of the coming and going of the  waking ,  dream and deep sleep is the formless  soul, the innermost self . The soul  is in the form of consciousness. Thus the waking, dream and deep sleep is mere mirage on the standpoint of the soul, the innermost self.  The soul or consciousness is ever aware  of the three states [illusion] which comes and goes in succession.

 On the standpoint of the soul, the innermost self,  the three states are mere illusion. The reality will  be revealed  only when waking entity  realizes the fact that, it itself is not the self but the  self is the  formless  soul ,which witnesses   of the coming and going of the  three states.

 The path  and  practices and theories based on the  waking entity or ego are not the means to Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana  or Atma Gnana. If the meditater  thinks he is the doer of the meditation and takes the authorship of meditation then it is not meditation because he is the waking entity and waking entity is not the self. Waking entity and waking world are part of the illusion. 

The one which is aware of the coming and going of the three states is Within the three states but it is apart from the three states.  it is within the three states as their formless substance and it is apart from the three states as their formless witness. . It is apart form the three states  because it is not an entity or identity within the three states because it is ever formless.  in the realm of truth the formless substance and witness are one in essence.  that essence is consciousness. Thus the three states are one in essence. thus no second thing exists other than consciousness.

 The Self  is not the doer. The waking entity is false self within the false experience.  thus whatever  seen,known,believed and experienced as waking entity is bound to be falsehood because the waking experience itself is false hood.

The one which knows itself as body and perceives the world is not the body, but the soul. Without the soul the experience of diversity (waking or dream) is non existent.  the  three states are reality only in the states of ignorance. The soul,  the innermost self can exist with or without the waking or dream , the illustration is deep sleep. (In deep sleep the soul is in its  own formless non-dual true nature).  

  Thus consciously being aware of soul,  the innermost self  in the midst of waking   will lead to non-dual self- awareness .   Thus all meditation practiced on the waking entity or false self (ego)  is preparatory practices to reach the ultimate state, which  frees one from experiencing the duality (birth, life ,death and the world)  as reality.  The formless substance and witness of the three states is not physical but  it is the formless soul or consciousness.   

Thus seeker of the truth has to realize the  fact that,  his practice of meditation is based on the waking entity or ego will not yield any fruit but it is only hallucinated awareness .  thus , his present practice of meditation based on waking entity  or ego  is inadequate and useless to acquire non dual self-awareness. 

Adyatimic Discussion - 126

Trevor Lightbown

‎Naga Baba Dada Thakur. Bina Paul. Leonard Jacobson. Divyaa Kummar Parveen Smith. Santthosh Kumaar Rupert Spira

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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    Buddha said:-
    Do not believe a spiritual teaching just because:-
    1. It is repeatedly recited,
    2. It is written in a scripture,
    3. It was handed from guru to disciple,
    4. everyone around you believes it,
    5. It has supernatural qualities,
    6. It fits my beliefs anyway,
    7. It sounds rational to me,
    8. It is taught by a respectable person,
    9. It was said to be the truth by the teacher,
    10. One must defend it or fight for it.
    
    However, only when it agrees with your experience and reason, and when it is conducive to the good and gain of oneself and all others, then one should accept the teachings, and live up to them."
    
    The truth does not require any tag of some guru or teaching, the serious seekers who are tired of all the theories, paths and practices and find them inadequate and useless, will turn towards the perennial springs of spiritual truth, to quench their spiritual thirst. For those who are advanced in the spiritual pursuit, will find the entire spiritual tags and branded paths and practices are inadequate and useless, in pursuit of truth.
    Deeper self-search revels the fact that, the Atman ,body and world are one in essence therefore no second thing exists other than Atman, which is in the form of consciousness. Thus realizing all the three states as consciousness leads to self-awareness.
    That is why Sri, Sankara indicated in (VC): - 65. As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a knower of Brahman, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted arguments.
    66. Therefore the wise should, as in the case of disease and the like, personally strive by all the means in their power to be free from the bondage of repeated births and deaths.
    Seeker of truth has to direct realization of the true self, through deeper self-search and avoid losing precious time and effort loosing himself in philosophical studies.

    
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    There are certain principles which are common to all orthodox Hindu thought, that are taken for granted. Orthodox assumes that the doctrine of karma is valid because they accept the experience of birth, life, death and the world as reality.
    Kabir views humanity as being caught up in illusion, searching for Ultimate Reality in all the wrong places, always seeking It outside of ourselves in various rituals, temples, forests and mountaintops, not realizing That for which we seek is already hidden within us.
    
    Without the self-knowledge it is impossible to cross the illusory ocean of the pain and pleasure. There no vessel to ferry man across the ocean of illusory form, time and space except Gnana.
    What is Gnana? Gnana means the full and firm realization of truth – a realization beyond all doubts, change and contradiction.
    Neither the control of breath, or regulating the breath, nor the performance of selfless service, nor by devotion to gods and gurus, not the performance of penance, nor pilgrimaging, nor by yoga nor by scriptural mastery, the ignorance will not vanish. But only through non-dual wisdom the ignorance can be eradicated. The three states are state of ignorance. All the three states are falsehood. The formless substance and and eternal. witness of the three states is real
    Sri Sankara, in Bhaja Govindam says: - [Jnana Viheena Sarva Mathena Bajathi na Muktim janma Shatena] - one without knowledge does not obtain liberation even in a hundred births, no matter which religious faith he follows.

    
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar Swami Vivekananda said: - “You have to grow from the inside out. None can teach you, none can make you spiritual. There is no other teacher but your own Soul.”
    

    2 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    Sri, Sankara says in VivekaChudamani :-
    56. Neither by Yoga, nor by Sankhya, nor by work, nor by learning, but by the realisation of one's identity with Brahman is Liberation possible, and by no other means.
    58. Loud speech consisting of a shower of words, the skill in expounding the Scriptures, and likewise erudition - these merely bring on a little personal enjoyment to the scholar, but are no good for Liberation.
    59. The study of the Scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known.
    60. The Scriptures consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely causes the mind to ramble. Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of the Self.
    61. For one who has been bitten by the serpent of Ignorance, the only remedy is the knowledge of Brahman. Of what avail are the Vedas and (other) Scriptures, Mantras (sacred formulae) and medicines to such a one?
    62. A disease does not leave off if one simply utter the name of the medicine, without taking it; (similarly) without direct realisation one cannot be liberated by the mere utterance of the word Brahman.
    63. Without causing the objective universe to vanish and without knowing the truth of the Self, how is one to achieve Liberation by the mere utterance of the word Brahman ? — It would result merely in an effort of speech.
    64. Without killing one’s enemies, and possessing oneself of the splendour of the entire surrounding region, one cannot claim to be an emperor by merely saying, ‘I am an emperor’.
    65. As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a knower of Brahman, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted arguments.
    66. Therefore the wise should, as in the case of disease and the like, personally strive by all the means in their power to be free from the bondage of repeated births and deaths.

    
    

    2 hours ago ·