The pleasure and suffering are part of the duality

The pleasure and suffering are part of the duality. The duality is mere illusion form ultimate standpoint. If one tries to search the source of the mind than it leads him towards the soul. The soul is the innermost self and the source from mind arises and subsides  as the universe. 

Siddhartha the prince with all his comforts of luxuries, when he saw the suffering he renounced all the pleasures of life and try to seek the truth of life. When he became aware of the true self, he became aware of the fact the life is nothingness. That is everything was created out of nothingness or formless consciousness and everything is nothingness or formless consciousness.

Modern man is pleasure hunter, and wants only pleasure of life not pain. Thus everyone is involved in hunting the never ending pleasure, and they try various methods, which suits to their own mindset, to get that pleasure that does not pass away.

When one who is able to think, very deeply, will find the fact that, the pleasure and pain are created out same substance. And the nature of the substance is formless. The formless substance itself is the true self. The true self is the source of the experience of diversity (mind or universe or waking). The whole experience of diversity (I) is erupted out from this formless source.

Since man thinks he is an individual separate from the world and limits, the mind (I) to the physical entity, he remains in ignorance, and experiences the duality as reality. Thus he accepts the suffering as part of his life.

The pleasure and pain are impermanent within the experience of impermanence (mind or universe or waking). The mind (I) which appeared on its own also disappears on its own. The one, which knows the mind is created out of nothingness or formless consciousness and that nothingness  or formless consciousness is the inner most self and it   is everything, is free from the ignorance, which is the cause of the experiencing pain and pleasure as reality and it itself is uncaused.

Sage Sri, Sankara says in commentary in Vedanta sutra that what is accepted without proper enquiry will not lead a person to the final goal.

Self is not ‘you’ but the self is that witnesses ‘you and the world’ together without the physical apparatus.  You are the false self(ego or waking entity) within the false experience(waking) bound by birth, life and death and form, time and space whereas the ‘Self ‘ is birthless and deathless because it is formless.  Thus self is not limited to waking state alone because it pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states.   Thus limiting the ‘self’ to waking entity alone is cause of the ignorance.  

The dream entity (you) and the dream world becomes falsehood when waking takes place. Similarly the waking entity (you) and the waking world become falsehood when wisdom dawns.  Wisdom dawns when waking entity (you) realizes it itself is not the self but the self is that which witnesses the coming and going of the three states.   The witness and the three states are one in essence. That essence is consciousness (Atman). Thus consciousness is ultimate truth or Brahman. Atman is second to none.  

Thus one has to know ‘What is mind? ‘What is the substance of the mind?’  and ‘What is the source of the mind?’ in order to realize the non-dualistic or Advaitic truth.

The ultimate truth is one without the second, the one is not in the sense half or two, but the one that remain forever One, without the second.  The consciousness is all pervading. There is no place where consciousness is not.

Consciousness is in everyone, consciousness is in everything .consciousness is one behind many. Consciousness alone is. It means the universe and its contents are the visible form of consciousness. And consciousness in turn is invisible form of the universe, which appears as mind.  

That is why Sage  Sri, Sankara says in commentary in Vedanta sutra that what is accepted without proper enquiry will not lead a person to the final goal. On the contrary, such acceptance will result only in evil, in something which is detrimental to our spiritual progress.   Seeker of truth should not believe blindly in traditional orthodox nonduality without verifying all the facts from every angle. One has to reflect through reasoning over and over again without getting tired of the process.

Everything is made of the same substance, whether it be inside--as in dreams--or outside as in waking. Whatever is seen as object, heard as sound or name is of the same substance. Many have   begun to suspect this truth. This is the great lesson to be learnt. Consciousness is all this."

Reason should not be interpreted to mean intellect. Reason is that which finally distinguishes between real and unreal, false and true, and therefore it takes all the three states into account.

According to Advaita Vedanta, the Veda addresses itself to two kinds of audiences - the ordinary ones who desire the transitory heaven and other pleasures obtained as a result of ritual sacrifices, and the more advanced seeker who seeks to know Brahman.

According to Advaita Vedanta, the Veda addresses itself to two kinds of audiences - the ordinary ones who desire the transitory heaven and other pleasures obtained as a result of ritual sacrifices, and the more advanced seeker who seeks to know Brahman. Thus, the purva mimam.sa, with its emphasis on the karma kanda of the Vedas, is meant for the first audience, to help lead its followers along the way. However, the Vedanta, with its emphasis on the jnana kanda, is meant for those who wish to go beyond such transient pleasures.

Sri, Sankara says in Brahma Sutras: that Brahman is the cause of the world, whereas in Mandukya he denies it. This is because he says that at the lower stage of understanding, the former teaching must be given, for people will get frightened as they cannot understand how the world can be without a cause, but to those in a higher stage, the truth of non-causality can be revealed.

Sage Sri, Sankara himself has warned us not to use ambiguous words, and to practice semantic analysis in his book "Definition of one's own Self.( Page 199, v.24 of "Sankara's Selected Works)

Sri, Sankara founded his Advaita Vedanta either on reason independent of sruti or on sruti confirmed by reason."   Sri, Sankara's commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad, II, 1:  This [the unreality of duality] is borne out by the Srutis ... But it is possible also to show the unreality of the object world even from pure reasoning, and this second chapter is undertaken for that purpose.

 Sri, Sankara himself had often said that his philosophy was based on Sruti, or revealed scripture.  This may be because Sri, Sankara addressed the ordinary man, who finds security in the idea of causality and thus in the idea of God—and Revelation is indispensable to prove the latter.  He believed that those of superior intelligence, have no need of this idea of divine causality, and can therefore dispense with Sruti and arrive at the truth of Non-Dualism by pure reason. 

Sri, Sankara, in debates with Buddhists and others who did not recognize the authority of the Vedas, had been obliged to prove the truth of Advaita by means of reason alone.  Mandukya Upanishad, a scripture which appealed to reason to the exclusion of Revelation. 

Nonduality does not need the support of any Scripture or Revelation like the Veda. For it is based, not upon the varying theological fancies, which are as numerous as the sands of the sea, but upon reason, the common heritage of all mankind, irrespective of colour or creed or clime.

Upanishad says:

  This Atman cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Ataman reveals Its own form. [Katha Upanishad Ch-II -23-P-20]

Mundaka Upanishad  :-

This Atman cannot be attained through study of the Vedas, nor through intelligence, nor through much learning. He who chooses Atman—by him alone is Atman attained. It is Atman that reveals to the seeker Its true nature. ( 3 –page-70

Mundaka Upanishad  Upanishads by Nikilanada)

When the Upanishads say:-

It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Atman reveals its own form.  Then what is the use of indulging through our intelligence or our accumulated knowledge, when one is not chosen by the self, which is the soul, which is in the form of consciousness.

There is no need for any philosophy in pursuit of truth because they take the seeker nearer to truth but they create more doubts and confusions.

 

The scriptures and theories and teaching based on the ego are not the yardstick. Using them as yardstick to understand and assimilate the truth will lead one towards pursuit of arguments. Seeker of truth has to discover on his own, the truth of his true existence by inquiring “what is mind?” and “what is substance of the mind?” and move forward.  

The ultimate truth is one without the second, the one is not in the sense half or two, but the one that remain forever One, without the second.  The consciousness is all pervading. There is no place where consciousness is not.

Consciousness is in everyone, consciousness is in everything .consciousness is one behind many. Consciousness alone is. It means the universe and its contents are the visible form of consciousness. And consciousness in turn is invisible form of the universe, which appears as mind.  

That is why Sri, Sankara says in commentary in Vedanta sutra that what is accepted without proper enquiry will not lead a person to the final goal. On the contrary, such acceptance will result only in evil, in something which is detrimental to our spiritual progress.   Seeker of truth should not believe blindly in traditional orthodox nonduality without verifying all the facts from every angle. One has to reflect through reasoning over and over again without getting tired of the process.

Swami Vivekananda said: - “You have to grow from the inside out. None can teach you, none can make you spiritual. There is no other teacher but your own soul.”

For the same reason Raman Maharishi said:  fortunate are the one who do not lose themselves in the labyrinths of philosophy. Bhagwan says: Take Vedanta, for instance: it speaks of 15 pranas the names and functions of it   which the student is asked to commit memory. Will it not be sufficient if he thought, only one prana does the whole work of maintaining the body? Again the antakaran is said to think, to desire, to will, to reason etc. Why all these details? Has anyone seen antakarana, or all these pranas? Do they really exist? They are conceptual divisions invented by teachers of philosophy by their excessive analysis. Where do all these concepts end? Why should confusion created and then explained away? Fortunate is the man who does not lose himself in the labyrinths of philosophy, but goes straight to the source from which they all arise. (GURU RAMANA .By S.S Cohen -vii Danger of philosophy-Page -58-59)

Buddha Said: - Believe nothing because a wise man said it,
Believe nothing because it is generally held.
Believe nothing because it is written.
Believe nothing because it is said to be divine.
Believe nothing because someone else said it.
But believe only what you yourself judge to be true.

(from The Mystic Vision
Compiled by Andrew Harvey and Anne Baring)

Thus    Seeker of truth should not believe blindly any teaching without verifying all the facts from every angle. One has to reflect through reasoning over and over again without getting tired of the process.

Many thinkers feel J.K’s teaching seems essentially negative, a potent but bitter medicine for those imprisoned by institutional cults. He breaks the student’s bonds, but then leads him to a vast desert where he abandons him.

Thank you Dear Sri Sadanandaji,

I respect your valuable views and wisdom.

As per my conviction derived from deeper self-search:-  

Those who assert the world is not illusion because they are unaware of the fact that, the world is reality within the illusion (waking). And they are frightened to consider the world as illusion.  Without considering the world as illusion, it is impossible to acquire Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.   

After verifying through deeper inquiry if one finds the world is reality within the illusion then he cannot again say the world is not illusion.

If one is frightened to accept the world is illusion (waking) than he is unfit to acquire Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.  Thus who stuck with the reality of the world, are stuck with reality of the individual experiences of birth, life and death, which takes place within the unreal world. Thus pursuit of truth is for those who have courage to accept the reality as it is, that is the reality without form, time and space.

According to Adavaita Vedanta, the Veda addresses itself to two kinds of audiences - the ordinary ones who desire the transitory heaven and other pleasures obtained as a result of ritual sacrifices, and the more advanced seeker who seeks to know Brahman. Thus, the purva mimam.sa, with its emphasis on the karma kanda of the Vedas, is meant for the first audience, to help lead its followers along the way. However, the Vedanta, with its emphasis on the jnana kanda, is meant for those who wish to go beyond such transient pleasures.

Sri, Sankara says in Brahma Sutras: that Brahman is the cause of the world, whereas in Mandukya he denies it. This is because he says that at the lower stage of understanding, the former teaching must be given, for people will get frightened as they cannot understand how the world can be without a cause, but to those in a higher stage, the truth of non-causality can be revealed.

Thus those who are frightened to accept the world is mere illusion should never indulge path of wisdom.

 Modern Ramanuja- J.Krishnamurti describes to perfection is the awakening to Reality—the realization that pure Consciousness alone is, that the perpetually fluctuating and evanescent contents of the mind derive from it. This awakening effectively happens in an instant. But in order for the lightning flash to take place, resulting in a firm and unshakable certitude, a long labour is necessary, which he seems to underestimate. “Truth is a pathless land” is his answer.

Many thinkers feel J.K’s teaching seems essentially negative, a potent but bitter medicine for those imprisoned by institutional cults. He breaks the student’s bonds, but then leads him to a vast desert where he abandons him. The ultimate state of consciousness he describes is that of the traditional sage or fully enlightened being, but he does not show us the process leading to the realization of this state. He describes marvelously the goal, but does not indicate the steps to be taken: his recurring phrases "unified consciousness" and "let go" are not a road-map.

J.Krishnamurti‘s approach was more practical, and he stuck with the reality of the world, he took it as real.

Sri, Sankara himself has warned us not to use ambiguous words, and to practice semantic analysis in his book "Definition of one's own Self. (Page 199, v.24 of "Sankara's Selected Works)

Sri, Sankara founded his Advaita Vedanta either on reason independent of sruti or on sruti confirmed by reason."   Sri, Sankara's commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad, II, 1:  This [the unreality of duality] is borne out by the Srutis ... But it is possible also to show the unreality of the object world even from pure reasoning, and this second chapter is undertaken for that purpose.

 Sri, Sankara himself had often said that his philosophy was based on Sruti, or revealed scripture.  This may be because Sri, Sankara addressed the ordinary man, who finds security in the idea of causality and thus in the idea of God—and Revelation is indispensable to prove the latter.  He believed that those of superior intelligence, have no need of this idea of divine causality, and can therefore dispense with Sruti and arrive at the truth of Non-Dualism by pure reason. 

Sri, Sankara, in debates with Buddhists and others who did not recognize the authority of the Vedas, had been obliged to prove the truth of Advaita by means of reason alone.  Mandukya Upanishad, a scripture which appealed to reason to the exclusion of Revelation. 

Nonduality does not need the support of any Scripture or Revelation like the Veda. For it is based, not upon the varying theological fancies, which are as numerous as the sands of the sea, but upon reason, the common heritage of all mankind, irrespective of colour or creed or clime.

Upanishad says:-

  This Atman cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Ataman reveals Its own form. (Katha Upanishad Ch-II -23-P-20)

Mundaka Upanishad  :-

This Atman cannot be attained through study of the Vedas, nor through intelligence, nor through much learning. He who chooses Atman—by him alone is Atman attained. It is Atman that reveals to the seeker Its true nature. ( 3 –page-70

Mundaka Upanishad  Upanishads by Nikilanada]

When the Upanishads say:-

It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Ataman reveals its own form.  Then what is the use of indulging through our intelligence or our accumulated knowledge, when one is not chosen by the self, which is the soul, which is in the form of consciousness.

There is no need for any philosophy in pursuit of truth because they take the seeker nearer to truth but they create more doubts and confusions.

 

The scriptures and theories and teaching based on the ego are not the yardstick. Using them as yardstick to understand and assimilate the truth will lead one towards pursuit of arguments. Seeker of truth has to discover on his own, the truth of his true existence by inquiring “what is mind?” and “what is substance of the mind?” and move forward.  

The ultimate truth is one without the second, the one is not in the sense half or two, but the one that remain forever One, without the second.  The consciousness is all pervading. There is no place where consciousness is not.

Consciousness is in everyone, consciousness is in everything,  consciousness is one behind many. Consciousness alone is. It means the universe and its contents are the visible form of consciousness. And consciousness in turn is invisible form of the universe, which appears as mind.  

With love, respect and regards

Santthosh 

Karma theory is based on the birth entity whereas the self is birthless.

Karma theory is religious fable. Karma theory is based on the birth entity whereas the self is birthless.  On the standpoint of the birthless self, the experience of birth, life, death and the world are mere illusion.  Thus holding birth entity as real self and the world as reality is erroneous.

The practical life within the practical world, which is present as waking experience, is mere illusion. If waking experience is mere illusion than the individual experience of birth, life, death and world are mere illusion.   If the experience birth, life death and the world are mere illusion, it means the form; time and space are mere illusion.  If form, time and space are mere illusion, it means the past, present and future is mere illusion. Thus it is necessary for the seeker to realize the fact that,   form, time and space are one in essence, in order to realize the three states are one in essence. That essence is consciousness. Thus all the diversity is created out of   formless consciousness. Thus no second thing exist other than consciousness, the innermost self. Seeker of truth has to constantly reflect on the subject in order to get firm conviction of the truth.  Seeker has to reflect on the same truth again and again until it becomes reality. One needs to constant reflect on the subject until he gets firm conviction of what is what.

The karma theory is introduced to control the mass mindset to do good to the society by the ancient sages.  The fear of karma  very often anchor our ego  to irrelevant or even wrong things, the karmas draw our ego  only into good and noble thoughts.  This is number one.  Number two is they draw us away from all bad thoughts. But karma is based on the physical base. The action and conduct is part of the illusion. Thus karma is not a means to acquire the self-knowledge. And karma is the biggest obstacle in pursuit of truth. The one who believes in theory of karma will never be able to realize the non-dual truth, because his focus of attention is centered on the false self. Thus he cannot cross the threshold of duality. It takes long time for the seekers who have accepted the karma theory to overcome the duality, because they have to drop the accumulated dross mentally.

In orthodox Advaita they accept karma theory.  If they accept the karma theory, one will not be able to reach the nondual destination. If one accepts karma theory then it is impossible to treat the world as illusion. All the pundits’ explanation of karma theory carries no weight on realm of truth.

The birth, life and death are part of the waking experience, which is mere illusion on the standpoint of the true self.  It is no use of saying that, we are not born, we do not die because, because we all were born and we all are going to die. However, the birth, life and death are part of the illusion, which comes and goes as waking experience.  The formless witness of the three states is real, which is our identity has no birth and death. That is why self-knowledge  or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is nothing to do with the religious based Advaita, which is based on Vedas. 

  A Gnani will never say we are not born; we are not going to die.   Only to the mediocre who nod their head, he will say this to inspire them to think of the formless true identity, which is birth less, deathless.   Thus, it is wrong to say we are not born and we do not die by limiting the self to the physical entity.  If one limits the self to the physical entity alone, one gets only half-truth.  The soul or consciousness   pervades all the three states, as its formless substance and witness.  The formless substance and witness, which is our true self (true identity). Without knowing the true self-mere saying, we are not born, we do not die is not the knowledge, which has come from depth, it is mere bookish knowledge.

 When Sage Sri, Sankara says: world is unreal. He never said body is unreal. He would have said only birth and death is   unreal but he did not say that, he said the world is unreal.   He meant   the world including the body, because the body and world appear together and disappear together (waking/dream).  Then we have to think, what remain without the body and the world as reality. How can the birth, life, death, rebirth, and reincarnation, which take place in unreal world (waking or dream), can be true.   The one, which is aware of the birth, life death, rebirth and reincarnation (illusion or unreal), is formless reality, which is the true self/true identity.  The formless self is your true identity, which is birthless and deathless but it is the witness of the birth, life and death and rebirth (illusion or unreal).

 On the standpoint the formless soul the innermost self, the experience of birth, life, death, rebirth and reincarnation theory is part of the illusion/unreal.  The body cannot reincarnate, the body and the world are created out of the same formless stuff. Until one views and judges on the base of flesh, bone and blood (five elements), he will not be able to grasp the nondual truth.  Thus, one must know on what standpoint we are not born and we do not die thoroughly, just by hearsay views, it will not lead anyone to the nondual destination. 

One has to grow from the inside out. None can teach him, none can make him spiritual. There is no other guru but his  own soul.”

Self-knowledge or Atma Gnana or Brahma Gnana cannot be attained by one who is without strength or earnestness or without the receptiveness and courage to accept the truth and reject the untruth. If a serious seeker strives sincerely by means of inquiry, analysis and soulcentric reasoning, he will be able to realize it.

It is only seekers sincerity and earnestness in his spiritual pursuit, the knowledge started revealing on its own.  Anyone who has humility and patience and is sincere and ready to drop their accumulated dross and receptive to accept the truth will enter nondual Self-Awareness when his conviction becomes firm.