Adyathmic Discussion--370

You have to speak about them individually, not assume all are the same.
Papaji who was teacher of Mooji. ?
Nisagaddatta ? Ganganji Adyashanti. Eckart Tolle.
Leonard Jacobson. Sailor Bob Adamson. Krishnamurti.
Ramana Maharishi. Alan Watts Paramansa Yogananda
Sai Baba of Shirdi Take a look at them all.
which one is deluded in duality using "I" thought.? Explain one sentence or paragraph of their words that makes you make this wide statement about Gurus.

SK: -  Whoever holds 'I' as a thought then they have realized only half truth. The 'I' is an experience.  Experience is prior to the thought. Without the waking experience who gets these thoughts. 

Thoughts arise to the person within the waking or dream. Thinker is the form. Without the form the thinking is impossibility. Thus thinker and the thoughts are part of the known. The witness of the knower and the known including the world is formless soul.

Thoughts and thinker are present only when the world is present. The world is present only when the waking experience is present. Waking experience is mere illusion from ultimate standpoint. If the waking experience is mere illusion then the thought, thinker and the world are mere illusion. 

Thought, thinker and the world are nothing to do with the formless witness. The witness is that witnesses the thoughts, the thinker and the world together. The thoughts, thinker and the world are one in essence. And also the three states are one in essence. That essence is consciousness. The consciousness (soul) is the innermost self. The consciousness is the ultimate reality or Brahman or God.

Without the form,time and space the thought will no rise. the form, time and space are present only when the waking experience is present. hence the experience is prior to thought. thus holding some guru or some teaching as a yardstick is the greatest hindrance in pursuit of truth. everything has to verified before accepting as truth.   

That is why Buddha said :-  Believe nothing because a wise man said it, Believe nothing because it is generally held. Believe nothing because it is written. Believe nothing because it is said to be divine. Believe nothing because someone else said it. But believe only what you yourself judge to be true

The Advaita taught by Sage Sri Sankara is a rigorous, absolute one. According to Sage Sri Sankara, whatever is, is Brahman. Brahman Itself is absolutely homogeneous. All difference and plurality are illusory

 The individuality is reality within the falsehood. All these great people existed or existing within the duality (universe). The duality is present in the form of 'I'. The duality is mere an illusion from the ultimate standpoint. The individuality names and forms are reality within the unreality (duality). The unreality (duality) is created out of single stuff. That single stuff is consciousness (spirit). Thus what is the use of taking about the unreality while we are seeking reality? The seeker aim is to realizing the ultimate truth. It is no use of discussing the unimportant subject in Atmic discussion. 

 Limiting the 'I' to the  thought  is limiting  the 'I' to the form. Limiting the 'I' to the form is limiting the 'I' individuality. Limiting the 'I' to  the individuality is causing the separation between form,time and space. separation is cause of experiencing the illusion as reality. The seeker has to realize the fact that,  in reality   the form,time and space are one in essence. thus 'i' is cause of ignorence and ignorance  is cause of separation.  

Many people are not even aware what is Atman; though knowing of it, many do not comprehend. Only few expound the knowledge of Atman and very rare assimilate and realize it.  It is all because of their inherited religious and social background and grooming.

There is a need to dismantle the inherited physical structure mentally to overcome the duality. The whole physical structure is built on the foundation of the ‘I’. Since they think the ‘I’ as Atman/self, it becomes difficult to grasp and assimilate and realize the non-dualistic  truth.

The ‘I’, appears and disappears as mind (waking/dream) is impermanent, hence it is not the self. The formless knower of the ‘I’ (waking/dream) is the true self. Since people think whatever is propagated by the guru/yogi as ultimate truth and blindly accept it as truth, without verifying the validity of their preaching. This blind acceptance becomes a big hindrance in pursuit of truth. If one is seeking truth, one has to verify the validity of any claim through inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the true base, and accept only un -contradictable truth.

Self-knowledge when taught by an unqualified person is not easily comprehended, because it is diversely regarded by disputants. But when it is taught by him who has become one with Atman, there can remain no more doubt about It. Atman is subtler than the subtlest and not to be known through argument.

Self- Knowledge cannot be attained by reasoning based on the ‘I’ (physical based). Atman becomes easy of comprehension, when taught by another. One has to attain self- Knowledge right now in this very life not in next world or next life.

Gnani, by means of concentration on the true Self, realizes that ancient, effulgent hidden and which dwells and pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states as its formless substance and witness.

The knowing the true Self is not born; It does not die. It has not sprung from anything; nothing has sprung from It. Birthless, eternal, everlasting and ancient, it is not killed when the body is killed or when the world disappears.  If the murderer thinks he kills and if the killed man thinks he is killed, neither of these apprehends aright. The Self kills not, nor is it killed.

Atman exists in smaller than the small, greater than the great, and is hidden in the three states as its formless substance and witness. A man who is free from viewing and judging the worldview on the base of ‘I’ beholds the Self through tranquility and becomes free from experiencing the duality as reality.

Gnani, having realized Atman as dwelling within impermanent states is bodiless, pervades the three states as its formless substance and witness and permanent and eternal.

Self-knowledge cannot be acquired by the study of the scriptures, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Atman reveals its own form.

He who has not rectified his seeking base from the ‘I’(form) base to soul(formless) base , who does not have the intense urge to know the non-dualistic or Advaitic  truth and who is not tranquil and subdued and whose mind is not receptive , cannot acquire Self-Knowledge . It is realized only through inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the true base. 

Exploring if an outside observer can, in all cases, determine if a person is Enlightened or not, the venerated Indian Sanyasin, Sage Sri Sankara (788-820), in his work The Crest Jewel of Discrimination (1) or as it is sometimes known, Viveka Chudamani (2), states that the Knower of the Atman (i.e., a person Awakened to the Absolute, Enlightened) "bears no outward mark of a holy man" (Stanza 539). Continuing, although there are variances found in the actual wording between various translators and translations the gist behind the words remains the same, Sage Sri, Sankara writes: - “Sometimes he appears to be a Fool, sometimes a wise man. Sometimes he seems splendid as a king, sometimes feeble-minded. Sometimes he is calm and silent. Sometimes he draws men to him. Sometimes people honour him greatly, sometimes they insult him. Sometimes they ignore him.

Adyathmic Discussion-- 369

Trev Light Bown:- “Ok. I feel the truth in what you write above. 

Last night i watched some very gory videos about autopsy. This was a full one opening up body/head of a young man killed by gun shot.
 

The western world hides death. The "I" thought is who we think we are in duality. So one must be that same "I" thought while aware that it is made up of thought.
So what is "I" thought when all passing thoughts have been observed?

Papaji talks of this final hurdle/ trap.
It can think it self awake and start teaching. It can become great master with many followers.

The "I" thought cannot be removed as it will just become the conquering "I" thought.” 

SK:- Thoughts like “I” and “I are” will not cease until one understands ‘what is ‘I’.   One has to understand the fact that, the thought will not rise without the waking or dream therefore, the experience of the  waking or dream has to be there prior to real thought process. The thought comes to the waking  entity within the waking experience .  And to the dream entity within the dream. 

 Thus thoughts are nothing to do with the formless witness (soul)  of the waking or dream.  Thoughts are concerned to the individual not to the formless witness of the three states. Thus it very much necessry realze the existence of the formless witness of the three states to unfold the mystery of the mind.  Thus whatever is part of the mind has to be falsehood.  Thus the thoughts, which arise to the false self within the false experience is bound to be falsehood.  Thus it is erroneous to trace the source of the thought instead one has to first realize the fact that the ‘I’ is not the self.  And ‘I’ is not the limited to the physical entity(waking entity)  but ‘I’ is whole universe, which appears as waking or dream(duality)  and disappears as deep sleep (non-duality). 

If ‘I’ is there then only  the mind is present. If mind is there then the universe is present. And the universe is present only when waking or dream is present. 

One see differences between things because of ignorance, all these differences would vanish when one gets wisdom and the various thoughts rises because one considers ‘I’ as self. 

Please think: if we are discussing the same subject in the dream and you asked me the same questions in the dream, then whatever you said in dream becomes unreal, when the waking takes place. Whatever you are saying now, you are saying within the waking experience. The waking is unreal on the base of the formless witness, which is soul or Atman or consciousness. Thus it is necessary to realize the soul, which is in the form of consciousness is the innermost self. Thus all our conclusions and judgment has to be based on the formless witness of the three states not on the waking entity(ego or you) , which is limited to the waking experience. 

The unreal (mind or universe) is created out of real (soul or consciousness), and when one views and judges on the standpoint unreal (ego or waking entity) then there is duality. When one is able to view and judge on the standpoint of real (soul or consciousness) then there is only non -duality.  Therefore, when the wisdom dawns then there is neither duality, nor non-duality, only reality.

All these confusion will go on, until man thinks, he is an individual and apart from the world, and the world existed prior to him and he is born in it afterwards. Therefore, it is necessary to know the fact the true self is not ego, but the true self is the soul, and stop viewing and judging the worldview on the standpoint of the physical self (ego), and one has to view and judge on the standpoint of soul or consciousness to realize the fact that, the world along with man is illusion. The illusion (universe or mind or waking) is created out of consciousness. Thus consciousness is Brahman or ultimate reality. Thus no second thing exists other than consciousness. 

The Seeker has to think deeply and realize the fact that, the soul, which is present in the form of the consciousness, is the innermost self and is the unborn witness.  Thus the body, ego and the world are nothing to do with the unborn witness, which is ever formless.

Egocentricity blocks one from realizing non-dualistic or Advaitic truth.  If thinker realizes the fact that ,  his  body, his ego and his experience of the  world are created out of  single stuff than  it is possible for his  to   grasp the non-dualistic truth  in lesser time and effort . The seeker has to verify whatever he knows is truth or not before declaring whatever he knows is ultimate truth or Brahman.

The main reason why egocentricity prevents such understanding is that it causes a person to be strongly attached in the belief that consciousness is the support of the individual. 

Dualist sages could not distinguish between ‘I’ and ‘formless witness.’ The 'I' was the witness. Their highest was the Jiva. One is so much attached to the 'I' that he does not want to think that 'I' does not exist. Again one is unable to detach the ‘I’ from the Real witness. 

Whatever is born, lives and dies within the illusory waking experience.  The birth, life, death and the world are reality within the waking experience.  The birth, life, death and world are reality within the waking experience. The waking experience is mere falsehood from the ultimate stand point.  There is no use thinking how the body functions or with what body functions. The dream body functions within the dream and waking body functions within the waking experience.    One has to find out what powers the dream as a whole to realize the same power, powers the waking as whole.  The one who knows all the three states are one is essence also aware of the fact that the form, time and space are one in essence and that essence is consciousness, which is the innermost self.  When one realize the inner most self is not the body but formless consciousness than: where is the body, where is world in taintless consciousness. They are or have become consciousness, which ultimate truth or Brahman. 

Thus perfect understanding of what is what is necessary to unfold the mystery of the 'I' or mind. 

 

Advaita from the spiritual supermarket***

Yoga Vasistha says:~ Self-knowledge or knowledge of truth is not had by resorting to a Guru (preceptor) nor by the study of scripture, nor by good works: it is attained only by means of enquiry inspired by the company of wise (Gnani). One’s inner light alone is the means, naught else. When this inner light is kept alive, it is not affected by the darkness of inertia. 

Advaita is universal. Advaita is not for Sale. Do not buy Advaita from the spiritual supermarket. Advaita is the nature of the Soul, the innermost Self. The world in which you exist is created out of single stuff. That single stuff is consciousness. Knowledge of the single stuff is Advaitic wisdom.

Advaitic truth is very simple, but it is very difficult to realize because you have accumulated mental garbage from different sources in the name of Advaita. Until you discard all the accumulated knowledge you will never be able to realize the Advaitic truth, which is beyond the form, time,  and space. 

The Advaita is the nature of the Soul, the innermost Self shines in its own its awareness when wisdom dawns. 

The Advaita is the Soul is the cause and the support of all that exists as the world in which we exist. Advaita is the nature of the God, the innermost Self. 

The Advaita is present in the form of the consciousness. Advaita is the root element of the universe. From the Advaita, the universe comes into existence. In the Advaita the universe resides. And into the Advaita the universe is dissolved. The Advaita is the parent of all that is there is.

All accumulated knowledge accumulated through different Gurus and teaching theories path and practices has to be mentally burnt and start a fresh, if one wants realize the truth nothing but the truth. Serious and serious seekers are very few and they will get inner direction and able to reach the ultimate end of understanding and realization.  

The majority of the seeker, are skin deep. They are happy with the person who emotionally satisfies their feeling.   The truth pursuit is serious business. The urge to know the truth cannot be imposed on others.  It has to sprout within. One need not search for   the Guru because the Guru is within in to guide every seeker.

 If you are aiming to be a master, Guru or teacher, you will never reach your destination.  You have to share his knowledge with the fellow seeker not to make them his followers but only direct them if they are interested to travel beyond form, time, and space.

It is foolish to impose our idea on others because everyone is not in the same level of understanding.  Everyone's inner work is on. When they are ripe enough they will understand, assimilate and realize on their own.  If they are ready and sharp enough they will grasp it instantly and they will reach their destination with lesser time and effort. Thus, preaching, teaching is not wisdom, but by very careful reasoning, the seeker has to determine the nature of the reality.  Deeper thinking and reasoning in the right direction alone helps seeker determining the nature of the reality, which is beyond the form, time, and space.