Adyatmic discussion -- 408***

S: I used to read lots of books on non-fiction, mostly from Darwin,rousseioue,vivekananda,voltarie,bertant rosella, some of the ancient books and lots of books mostly in basement library around India. My simple question was from where we have come? What is our role here? and where we are going ? This made me to search for truth at leaset for a decade, i was like a wanderer and there was no answer from anybody other than my MIND, one fine day my mind started observing the mind and whatever around u was very being understood, then the question of asking stopped, because what u are asking question is nothing but ur answer lies within our self.

I started experimenting at least for next eight years with silence, nature, the so called truth and love, i know these all things just became beyond words which immeasurable , cannot be said in words , just touch and touch me not.

I started slowly understanding this unknown, there is nothing called soul anywhere it is only, STILL ness and void. Sometime if ur not with the whole experience of knowledge there is chancees of going in illusion, which the so called swami and gurus are doing.

The physical conditioning of consciousness does not takes place because u only live now and nothing for tomorrow, the fact is MIND acts as it is and less or more.

U live beyond time and we do not like to exploit, the society the way it is happening now, we are very conscious of yourself to the nature, people animals and so on.

There is nothing in this called Soul, in true all conscious energy i know the commercialization has exploited the human mind with Women, wine and wealth.

I think we will survive with this and fell ourself like living for another 10,000yrs or more.
The whole existence of our self is being checked, countered, exploited, and so on by the words like soul there is only one to KNOW Thyself.

I am sure the soul is also a ILLUSION and dream.

Dear S

Thank you for your input. I respect your views and wisdom.

 As per my conviction:-

With the object to escaping this overshadowing illusion ( waking experience or duality)  people rush blindly into innumerable devices or pathways by which they fondly hope to enter into eternal happiness which will not pass away. Such is the boozer or the harlot, who revels in the sensual pleasures; such is the exclusive aesthete, who shuts himself out from the sorrows of the world and surrounds himself with enervating luxuries, such is he who thirst for wealth or fame or power, and subordinates all things to the achievement of that object; and such are they who seek consolation in the performance of religious austerities or yogic practices. 

And to all, the happiness sought seems to come, and soul, for a while, is lulled into sweet security and intoxicating forgetfulness of the reality of the true existence;  but the day of the great misfortune, sorrow, brakes suddenly in  and the happiness is torn to shreds.

Therefore over the head of every person hangs the sword of suffering, ready at any moment, to fall and crush him who is unprotected by the knowledge of the true self which is Atman or spirit. 

Sometimes one feels  that he has found happiness , secure and peace in adopting a certain religion or path or yogic practice or philosophy; but some overpowering temptation proves all these are inadequate or insufficient; the scriptural knowledge is found to be useless and feels that idealistic statue upon which he has been laboring for years is of no use.   

Whatever you have read, heard, seen, known, believed and experienced as a person of the world  appears, when the mind (I)  appears, and it  disappears when the mind disappears. Therefore, all your experiences are within the mind, which appears as waking or dream and disappears as no mind or deep sleep. There is no need for any egocentric theories and teaching in pursuit of truth. 

Without realizing the self is not waking entity but the self the formless soul, there is no point in discussing of the truth, which is beyond, form, time and space.  All the understanding is based on the waking entity, which is the false self within the false experience.     

Ultimate Truth is nowhere written and cannot be expressed through words and thoughts, because words and thoughts are created out of consciousness, which is the ultimate truth or Brahman.

The seeker has to start afresh by realizing the fact that, the belief, and faith and all the dogmas in the name of god and religion are part of the illusion. Then there is possibility that he may find and grasp the non-dual truth.

The truth does not belong to any religion. Religious truth is individual truth based on the false self. The intellectuality is based on the individuality and in duality belongs to duality and duality is not reality from ultimate standpoint. Thus the understanding based on the form is limited to form alone is just skin deep because one is not included the time and space. Thus when the understanding is limited to the form to the form is imaginary and leads to hallucination. Thus perfect understanding is ‘very much necessary what is what’ in order realizing the truth beyond the form, time and space. 

The truth is not in any religious scriptures. The truth will not be realized through practicing yogic Samadhi, because whatever is followed and practiced on the base of ‘waking entity or ego  which is the false self within the false experience will not lead one to Non-dualistic or Advaitic self-awareness.  

Yoga, religion, scriptural studies and intellectuality are nothing to do in pursuit of truth.  One has to investigate “what is mind?” and “what is the substance of the mind” to unfold the mystery of the mind.  If one becomes aware with what the mind is able to sustain itself, then he becomes aware of the ultimate truth. Since every one of us judging the truth on the base of their accumulated knowledge they go round and round never come to any final conclusion. 

The look of any object will depend upon the medium through which the self observes it. If, the self observes through physical apparatus, then the mental and intellectual conditions will determine the three states observed and experienced. If the self (soul) is without the physical apparatus views the same phenomenal world finds nothing other than itself.  Therefore, there is a need to know the fact that, the ego (body) is not the self, and learn to view and judge the truth on the base of the self, which is in the form of consciousness. 

The individual experiences are happening within the mind. Until we think the mind is within the body, we remain ignorant of the truth.   Therefore, one has to find the fact that, whether the mind is within the body or the body and the world are within the mind.

One interprets the object that he sees in terms of his existing accumulates knowledge based on the ego.  The Gnani sees the play of consciousness everywhere and in everything in all the three states. Therefore, it is very much necessary to learn to view and judge the truth without the physical apparatus. Without the physical apparatus the self is formless soul..... or anyone can call it anything which makes sense.     

Soul, self, spirit, Brahman, Atman, consciousness emptiness, nothingness, no one,  no mind, higher self,  super consciousness , which are mere name given to the same thing, you can call any name  to the formless existence,  the words are mere pointers  communication purpose.  

We are discussing about the soul in illusion, and when the illusion disappears there is nothing is there to call it or name it. Whatever prevails without the illusion is ultimate reality. 

When the whole universe in which we exist is mere illusion created out of consciousness then we are discussing about the truth within the illusion. Thus whatever we discuss is nothing to  do with self, which is ever formless, timeless and spaceless.

    

Adyatmic discussion -- 407***

P: Because people think the body is born, lives and dies they feel the pleasure and pain as reality. But it is not body alone that dies, the world also dies together, because they appeared together and they disappear together as deep sleep or death.
So, as long as one is in the body one is bound by pleasure and pain.
Is there anyone who lives otherwise?

 ?
Santtosh, you did not answer my question Are you not effected by the pleasure / pain principle?

 
warm regards..

Hi P,

The body is within the world, the world is within the mind. The body and the world are reality within the waking experience.   The waking experience is unreal, and our individual experiences of birth, life and death are happening within waking or dream. When the mind is present then only the waking or dream is present. If mind is absent the waking or dream is absent. When the mind is absent it is deep sleep.  The witness of the three states is formless and real. 

The truth is hidden within the mind, and no mind experiences. Deeper investigation will reveal the truth. 

I as a body with the name is not the author of the waking experience, because I as a body with the name exists within the waking experience. The waking experience is parallel dream, and the dream is a parallel waking experience.  If I was Alexander the great in the dream and suffered pain in the dream, the pain of the dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. Similarly, my experience of pain and pleasure becomes unreal when wisdom dawns.  Within the illusion everyone is affected by pain and pleasure. Therefore, it is necessary for everyone to become consciously aware of the soul or consciousness themselves, and realize its effect themselves.  Since when one becomes soul centric any claim of authorship of any experience makes him egocentric. Whatever is based on Egocentricity is falsehood.    For a Gnani, nothing exists, nothing are ever exited, and nothing is going to exist, other than nothing, which is the soul or consciousness, which is second to none.    

All the questions, doubts and confusion arise when he is egocentric. Self is not the waking entity but the self is the formless soul, which witnesses the coming and going of the three states without the physical apparatus  then it is erroneous to view , judge and conclude the truth on the base of the waking entity , which is bound by form, time and space.  Thus it is necessary to think and decide the truth on the base of formless soul, which is present in the form of consciousness. When the judgment is based on the formless soul, then there is nothing to argue, nothing to decide because there is no second thing exists other than the self- awareness. In self-awareness there is no second thing exists other than the soul, which is present in the form of consciousness. A man of truth sees his body not as the body, his ego as not ego, and his experience of the world as not world but he is fully aware they are one in essence in the midst of duality (waking). The man and his world are reality within the waking experience but the waking experience is unreal on the standpoint of the formless soul, the innermost self.       

Realizing the formless soul as self is the prime goal.  On the standpoint of the formless soul as self, the experience of the birth, life, death and the world are one in essence and that essence is the formless soul, which is present in the form of consciousness. Thus the experience of birth, life, death and the world are part and parcel of the waking experience, which is an illusion created out of single stuff, which is consciousness.  Thus consciousness alone is real and all else is unreal.    

Adyathmic Discussion -406 ( How the world is real or unreal )

To say the universe is an illusion without first examining it and inquiring into its nature thoroughly is to delude oneself. This world is common to every one of us; therefore the seeker of truth must begin his inquiry with it. It is only after he has inquired into the nature of the objective world he realizes the universe which through ignorance appears as of diverse forms, is nothing else but the soul, which is present in the form of consciousness is absolutely free from all the limitations of human thought.

First the seeker must inquire into the nature of the three states to realize the three states are one in essence. One has to observe everything in the three states because all three states are one in essence and that essence is consciousness (soul or Atman) Atman is Brahman. The seeker should not shut his eyes to the nature of the three states, because they are a mere mirage created out of consciousness. 

Form, time and space are one is essence. That essence is consciousness. Consciousness is ultimate truth or Brahma. Brahman cannot be described, because description implies distinction. Brahman cannot be distinguished from any other than self.

The three states have no independent existence. The soul, which is present in the form of consciousness alone, has real existence. The three states are a mere illusion created out of consciousness. 

Without breaking away from religion and ancient traditions it is impossible to acquire Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. Religion and tradition will keep one locked in the ignorance.--FORMLESS PATH

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  Tina Anderson It is not an illusion...it is a place of relativity created by an unconditionally loving universe for us to come and experience ourselves amongst the contrast. it is very real 

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  Santthosh Kumaar Dear Tina Anderson, I respect your views and wisdom. As per my conviction :- The nature of the mind, which is present in the form of universe, is constant flux. The universe appears as waking or dream. Without being aware of the existence of the formless witness of the three states people think everything is in flux in the universe. 

   
  The permanent thing is the substance of the mind or universe. The formless substance is the witness of the mind (I) or universe. The formless substance and witness are one in essence. That essence is soul, which is present in the form of consciousness. The soul or consciousness is real and permanent. The universe is mere mirage created out of consciousness. 

   
  World is both real and unreal. It is real because it is a manifestation of consciousness, but is unreal, in the sense, that it is not absolute and eternal like consciousness itself.
  
  Intellectuals approach was more practical, and they stuck with the reality of the world, they take it as real.

   
  On the standpoint the soul, the innermost self the universe is mere illusion. The soul is the permanent all else mere illusion. Man and exist in the unreal universe and by discussing on the standpoint of the ego (waking entity) which is the false self within the false experience will leads to hallucination. 

   
  In self-awareness the body is not considered as body, ego is not considered as ego and the world is not considered as world because body, ego and the world too are nothing but consciousness. In self-awareness there is no flux. There is unity in diversity. Only in ignorance the illusion is experienced as reality. The nature of the illusion is impermanent and constant flux whereas the nature of the soul or consciousness is permanent and still.

  3 hours ago · Edited · Like
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  Tina Anderson That is all a bit complicated for me. i saw the face of God and the message was simple. You cant get it Wrong. its just a game and it is our choice to come here and play. There is no hell. There is no judgement and there is no meaning other than what we give it. its just a game. this is backed up by others who have died and been revived. it really isn't that technical. And if i had some way to make you feel he unconditional love that is waiting back home when we return, nobody would ever be afraid again. Thank for allowing my input.

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  Santthosh Kumaar Everyone is not in a same level of understanding. Since your understanding is based on the waking entity(ego) what you say is correct but when the understanding based on the soul, the innermost self , there is nothing exists other than the soul, which is present in the form of spirit or consciousness. The soul is spirit and spirit is God.
  
  Bible says, that “God is a Spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth (John 4:24)”, 

   
  Yazur Veda also says, “Nathasya prathima asityasya nammahastha (32.3)”, God has no image and His name is Holy. 

   
  Mythreyi Upanishad 2:26 says, “Pashanalogamani moonmayavigrahashi pooja punarjanana bohahari mumusho tasmatati: swahdayarja nameva kuyarta hayacharam parihareta punarbhavaya”, all those who desire to have salvation without taking several births, should worship God in spirit and truth.
  
  Gospel Thomas logian 22:- Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, “These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom.”
  
  They said to him, “Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?”
  
  Jesus said to them, “When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female is female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom.”
  
  When one realizes mind (matter) and soul (spirit), the innermost self are one in essence there is no place for duality. Without duality the universe ceases to exist. Without the universe your existence within the universe is mere an illusion because there is scope for two because everything is created out of single stuff (Spirit or God).

  3 hours ago · Edited · Like