Adyatmic Discussion -109

Bianca Hodermann Shivani commented on your post in Nisargadatta Maharaj.

Bianca Hodermann Shivani 2:11pm Aug 13 ♥

Comment History

Pete Hughes 1:49pm Aug 13 Thanks Santthosh Kumaar, it is always amusing to watch 15 paragraphs say nothing whatsoever.

Paolo D'Arpini 1:43pm Aug 13 Bravo!

Santthosh Kumaar 1:37pm Aug 13 Thank you, Nice to see U dear Pete. It is colour without the coulor and words without the words. Have a nice day without form,time,space and words,which is your true identity.

Pete Hughes 11:59am Aug 13 Nice colouring in.

Oscar Romahn 10:11am Aug 13 Pure lovely Advaita!

View All Comments

Original Post

Santthosh Kumaar 9:06am Aug 13 The pursuit of truth is very personal journey. The self is nothing to do with the individual life because ups and down of life is mere illusion. The burden and bondage of life within the dream becomes unreal when waking takes place, similarly one is not affected by the suffering of the world when the self becomes aware of the fact that, it is neither waking entity nor the dream entity. Realizing the ultimate truth will not bring remedy for our present situation in our practical life within the practical world but it definitely brings freedom from experiencing the illusory practical life with the practical world as reality. A Gnani may go in silent mode and say nothing because he knows his body; ego and his experience of the world and the person who is questioning him are also as consciousness. Thus for him the forms and names are mere illusion created out of consciousness. And he has becomes one with the nature of the true self, which is non-dual silence. The physical existence is reality on the base of physical self. Whatever one feels as a person is reality within the physical existence. If physical existence is taken as reality then there is no meaning in seeking truth because he has accepted the physical existence as truth. Once physical existence is accepted as reality then the experiences within the physical existence prevail as reality. My point is we have to view our life from ultimate point of view, then only we become aware its illusory nature. The nature of things necessarily unpreventable and uncontrollable when one regards world as world of diversity. Only when one is able to base his-self from ultimate standpoint and views the experience of diversity [mind] as consciousness only, then he becomes aware of their unreal nature of the physical existence or mind. One, who has realized that existence and non-existence and change are in the nature of things, easily finds repose, being unperturbed and free from ignorance. The pain and pleasure exist as reality because of having the idea of two [duality]. To get rid of the reality of the pain and pleasure one has to find the formless substance of the duality [mind] to realize the whole diversity is created out of single substance, which is consciousness. Realizing the consciousness as ultimate truth, one becomes aware of the unreal nature of the mind, which appears as waking or dream [duality] and disappears as deep sleep [non-duality]. Serious Seekers who desirous to know the truth, for them nothing brings contentment other than acquiring the self-knowledge. For one who becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but consciousness becomes aware of the fact that, the physical existence [illusion] has no base, and its reality is in illusory in its nature. Our individual life is nothing to do with ultimate truth. The individual life is reality within the waking or dream. The three states are mere illusion on the ultimate standpoint. The ultimate truth, which is consciousness, is the substance and witness of the illusion and it is within the illusion and it is always apart and eternal. As person perceiving the world one thinks he is born in this world and world existed prior to him, this conviction makes him physical oriented, thus he views and judges the worldview on the physical base therefore his understanding is limited to the physicality. Deeper inquiry reveals the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless [consciousness]. On the base of formless [consciousness] as self, one becomes unreal nature of the mind, which appears as waking or dream. Thus, the waking is as unreal as dream. When man his world are within the illusion and all his experiences are happenings within the illusion. Until one thinks the physical self as real self, he is bound to be in the realm of duality. The one which knows itself as body with the name is not the body but it is consciousness. When the consciousness withdraws itself then there is neither body, nor the name, nor the world exists. And consciousness alone prevails as nondual existence. Where is the body, where is mind, where is the world; the void; or despair in the true self, which the taintless soul or consciousness. They are or have becomes consciousness. One thinks there is mind when he has thoughts, but when thoughts are not considered different from the consciousness, which is the true self, then where is the division into, waking, dream and deep sleep etc. Void implies to duality: the universe may not exist but the thought of the second is there. If one knows there is Void [emptiness/nothingness], then there is something there to be known and know. They are or have become consciousness. What are scriptures, what is self-knowledge, what is mind without the objects, what is contentment, and where is desirelessness for the formless soul/true self, which is ever devoid of sense of duality. What is knowledge? What is ignorance? What is the ego? What is duality? What is mind? What is bondage? What is liberation? What is definableness to the formless self/soul, which is in the form of consciousness? All these appearances are mere mirage, which come and go; hence meaningless to the formless soul/true self. The ego based knowledge is not ultimate knowledge because ego based knowledge is dualistic knowledge based on the object [body] as subject. But in non-dualistic Knowledge whatever seems to exist also is consciousness; therefore there is no scope for the existence of the second thing. What is past karmas? What is liberation –in this life? and what is that liberation at death? for the birth- less soul, which is ever formless. Nearest state to understand the soul by itself is to eliminate mentally waking and dream as in deep sleep. Once this is grasped one has to understand everything is consciousness, which is the true self. What is the doer or the enjoyer? What is cessation of thoughts or rising of thoughts? What is immediate perception and its result to, the formless soul, which is ever impersonal. A Gnani is the one who is never afraid of thinking and knowing all his individual experience and the world to be consciousness. What is the world and what is meant by the aspirant for liberation; what is contemplative and what is man of knowledge; what the self is and what liberated self to the formless soul, which is the non-dual essence. When we analyze the dream experience we find the dream entity, dream world with all people in it appeared as a whole, and the dream reality lasted until waking experience appeared. When one tries to know the truth of his true existence in waking through inquiry, analysis and reasoning, one becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless soul, which is in the form of consciousness which is the essence of the three states from which the three states are made. Thus the illusions of the three states are made of one single substance, which is consciousness. By realizing the formless substance, which is consciousness as self, the ignorance vanishes and one become aware of the fact that the three states are mere illusion on the standpoint of the formless substance ,which is also the witness of the three states. When knows the soul as the true self:- What are projection and retraction, what are end and means; what are failure and success to the formless soul, which is formless and non-dual in its nature. The mirage appears and merges back into its essence is not an appearance at all. What is the knower, the means of knowledge, the object of knowledge; what is anything or nothing to the soul which is ever formless. Knower, knowledge, object, thing, nothing or any word one may utter is after all they are the words and words have meaning only within the mirage. The consciousness is ever present in all the three states but as a person, one is unconscious of the consciousness because he thinks the body as his self. When all knowing, known and knower are simultaneously mental as in dream what else is there to trouble about understanding them. Because of considering the waking experience as reality one is incapable of understanding and assimilating the non-dual truth. What is the distraction? What is the concentration, dullness ad delusion, happiness and sorrow to the formless soul, which is ever actionless. As a person one may be drawn to observe his body and the world, but the Gnani is not disturbed by because they all are consciousness to him. The physical attributes are nothing to do with the soul/self wrongly; all the attributes belong to the ego not the soul. Identifying the physical attribute to the soul is the cause of the ignorance. What is relative? What is absolute happiness and misery to the formless soul, which is ever devoid of thought and activity? If anything has a meaning it is only in duality. Happiness and sorrow are the nature of duality, which is mind, their differences therefore illusory on the standpoint of the formless soul, which is ultimate reality. What is illusion? What is ignorance? What are birth, life and death? What is world? What is attachment and what is detachment to the soul/self, which is ever formless. The mind and soul are one in essence ultimately. All argument about consciousness never touches it. The soul is not the ego in this particular body but principle which holds the whole physical existence [universe], which contains everyone and everything known and unknown. All words have no place and thoughts cannot reach. Even the thought of the soul or consciousness is just illusory and contradictory, because the thought and words belong to the world of duality. What is activity or inactivity, liberation and bondage to the formless soul/self, which is ever immutable and indivisible. There is no division into nations, races and colours of kinds of men in wisdom. It is not enough to but one must always see the formless soul [consciousness] as self and the witness the witness of all the three states and always realize and practice it. Some people get glimpses of truth and lose it; so it must be established. Such fixidity is the goal. What is instruction and scriptural injunction? What is disciple and guru? What indeed is object of life for the formless soul, which is absolute and free from limitation? Life is with world. World is within the waking or dream, the illusory limitation. When there is no second other than consciousness, then what is there for the soul /self to attain? But when one thinks the self is physical, then there is various things he will want to get and so be trouble by their lack. Hence don’t wrongly imagine the self to be the body. What is existence, nonexistence, unity or duality? What need us there to say more? Noting from the soul because whatever seems to emanate from it, is non-different from itself. There is no second thing other than the soul, which is in the form of consciousness. One should not mistake self [soul] for the ego. Those who assert world is reality, are still in elementary stages of preliminary analysis. The world is reality within the waking experience but the waking experience is mere illusion. The same way the dream world was reality within the dream experience. The dream became unreal when waking took place same way waking becomes unreal when non-dual wisdom dawns.

Adyathmic Discussions -108

Oscar Romahn commented on your post in Nisargadatta Maharaj.

Oscar Romahn 10:11am Aug 13 I really need to admit, this is beautiful writing, my Guru would be so proud, it really made me a very magical moment when reading it, Wow and thanks a lot for posting it!

Original Post

Santthosh Kumaar 9:06am Aug 13 The pursuit of truth is very personal journey. The self is nothing to do with the individual life because ups and down of life is mere illusion. The burden and bondage of life within the dream becomes unreal when waking takes place, similarly one is not affected by the suffering of the world when the self becomes aware of the fact that, it is neither waking entity nor the dream entity. Realizing the ultimate truth will not bring remedy for our present situation in our practical life within the practical world but it definitely brings freedom from experiencing the illusory practical life with the practical world as reality. A Gnani may go in silent mode and say nothing because he knows his body; ego and his experience of the world and the person who is questioning him are also as consciousness. Thus for him the forms and names are mere illusion created out of consciousness. And he has becomes one with the nature of the true self, which is non-dual silence. The physical existence is reality on the base of physical self. Whatever one feels as a person is reality within the physical existence. If physical existence is taken as reality then there is no meaning in seeking truth because he has accepted the physical existence as truth. Once physical existence is accepted as reality then the experiences within the physical existence prevail as reality. My point is we have to view our life from ultimate point of view, then only we become aware its illusory nature. The nature of things necessarily unpreventable and uncontrollable when one regards world as world of diversity. Only when one is able to base his-self from ultimate standpoint and views the experience of diversity [mind] as consciousness only, then he becomes aware of their unreal nature of the physical existence or mind. One, who has realized that existence and non-existence and change are in the nature of things, easily finds repose, being unperturbed and free from ignorance. The pain and pleasure exist as reality because of having the idea of two [duality]. To get rid of the reality of the pain and pleasure one has to find the formless substance of the duality [mind] to realize the whole diversity is created out of single substance, which is consciousness. Realizing the consciousness as ultimate truth, one becomes aware of the unreal nature of the mind, which appears as waking or dream [duality] and disappears as deep sleep [non-duality]. Serious Seekers who desirous to know the truth, for them nothing brings contentment other than acquiring the self-knowledge. For one who becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but consciousness becomes aware of the fact that, the physical existence [illusion] has no base, and its reality is in illusory in its nature. Our individual life is nothing to do with ultimate truth. The individual life is reality within the waking or dream. The three states are mere illusion on the ultimate standpoint. The ultimate truth, which is consciousness, is the substance and witness of the illusion and it is within the illusion and it is always apart and eternal. As person perceiving the world one thinks he is born in this world and world existed prior to him, this conviction makes him physical oriented, thus he views and judges the worldview on the physical base therefore his understanding is limited to the physicality. Deeper inquiry reveals the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless [consciousness]. On the base of formless [consciousness] as self, one becomes unreal nature of the mind, which appears as waking or dream. Thus, the waking is as unreal as dream. When man his world are within the illusion and all his experiences are happenings within the illusion. Until one thinks the physical self as real self, he is bound to be in the realm of duality. The one which knows itself as body with the name is not the body but it is consciousness. When the consciousness withdraws itself then there is neither body, nor the name, nor the world exists. And consciousness alone prevails as nondual existence. Where is the body, where is mind, where is the world; the void; or despair in the true self, which the taintless soul or consciousness. They are or have becomes consciousness. One thinks there is mind when he has thoughts, but when thoughts are not considered different from the consciousness, which is the true self, then where is the division into, waking, dream and deep sleep etc. Void implies to duality: the universe may not exist but the thought of the second is there. If one knows there is Void [emptiness/nothingness], then there is something there to be known and know. They are or have become consciousness. What are scriptures, what is self-knowledge, what is mind without the objects, what is contentment, and where is desirelessness for the formless soul/true self, which is ever devoid of sense of duality. What is knowledge? What is ignorance? What is the ego? What is duality? What is mind? What is bondage? What is liberation? What is definableness to the formless self/soul, which is in the form of consciousness? All these appearances are mere mirage, which come and go; hence meaningless to the formless soul/true self. The ego based knowledge is not ultimate knowledge because ego based knowledge is dualistic knowledge based on the object [body] as subject. But in non-dualistic Knowledge whatever seems to exist also is consciousness; therefore there is no scope for the existence of the second thing. What is past karmas? What is liberation –in this life? and what is that liberation at death? for the birth- less soul, which is ever formless. Nearest state to understand the soul by itself is to eliminate mentally waking and dream as in deep sleep. Once this is grasped one has to understand everything is consciousness, which is the true self. What is the doer or the enjoyer? What is cessation of thoughts or rising of thoughts? What is immediate perception and its result to, the formless soul, which is ever impersonal. A Gnani is the one who is never afraid of thinking and knowing all his individual experience and the world to be consciousness. What is the world and what is meant by the aspirant for liberation; what is contemplative and what is man of knowledge; what the self is and what liberated self to the formless soul, which is the non-dual essence. When we analyze the dream experience we find the dream entity, dream world with all people in it appeared as a whole, and the dream reality lasted until waking experience appeared. When one tries to know the truth of his true existence in waking through inquiry, analysis and reasoning, one becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless soul, which is in the form of consciousness which is the essence of the three states from which the three states are made. Thus the illusions of the three states are made of one single substance, which is consciousness. By realizing the formless substance, which is consciousness as self, the ignorance vanishes and one become aware of the fact that the three states are mere illusion on the standpoint of the formless substance ,which is also the witness of the three states. When knows the soul as the true self:- What are projection and retraction, what are end and means; what are failure and success to the formless soul, which is formless and non-dual in its nature. The mirage appears and merges back into its essence is not an appearance at all. What is the knower, the means of knowledge, the object of knowledge; what is anything or nothing to the soul which is ever formless. Knower, knowledge, object, thing, nothing or any word one may utter is after all they are the words and words have meaning only within the mirage. The consciousness is ever present in all the three states but as a person, one is unconscious of the consciousness because he thinks the body as his self. When all knowing, known and knower are simultaneously mental as in dream what else is there to trouble about understanding them. Because of considering the waking experience as reality one is incapable of understanding and assimilating the non-dual truth. What is the distraction? What is the concentration, dullness ad delusion, happiness and sorrow to the formless soul, which is ever actionless. As a person one may be drawn to observe his body and the world, but the Gnani is not disturbed by because they all are consciousness to him. The physical attributes are nothing to do with the soul/self wrongly; all the attributes belong to the ego not the soul. Identifying the physical attribute to the soul is the cause of the ignorance. What is relative? What is absolute happiness and misery to the formless soul, which is ever devoid of thought and activity? If anything has a meaning it is only in duality. Happiness and sorrow are the nature of duality, which is mind, their differences therefore illusory on the standpoint of the formless soul, which is ultimate reality. What is illusion? What is ignorance? What are birth, life and death? What is world? What is attachment and what is detachment to the soul/self, which is ever formless. The mind and soul are one in essence ultimately. All argument about consciousness never touches it. The soul is not the ego in this particular body but principle which holds the whole physical existence [universe], which contains everyone and everything known and unknown. All words have no place and thoughts cannot reach. Even the thought of the soul or consciousness is just illusory and contradictory, because the thought and words belong to the world of duality. What is activity or inactivity, liberation and bondage to the formless soul/self, which is ever immutable and indivisible. There is no division into nations, races and colours of kinds of men in wisdom. It is not enough to but one must always see the formless soul [consciousness] as self and the witness the witness of all the three states and always realize and practice it. Some people get glimpses of truth and lose it; so it must be established. Such fixidity is the goal. What is instruction and scriptural injunction? What is disciple and guru? What indeed is object of life for the formless soul, which is absolute and free from limitation? Life is with world. World is within the waking or dream, the illusory limitation. When there is no second other than consciousness, then what is there for the soul /self to attain? But when one thinks the self is physical, then there is various things he will want to get and so be trouble by their lack. Hence don’t wrongly imagine the self to be the body. What is existence, nonexistence, unity or duality? What need us there to say more? Noting from the soul because whatever seems to emanate from it, is non-different from itself. There is no second thing other than the soul, which is in the form of consciousness. One should not mistake self [soul] for the ego. Those who assert world is reality, are still in elementary stages of preliminary analysis. The world is reality within the waking experience but the waking experience is mere illusion. The same way the dream world was reality within the dream experience. The dream became unreal when waking took place same way waking becomes unreal when non-dual wisdom dawns.

Adyathmic Discussions - 107

Pete Hughes commented on your post in Nisargadatta Maharaj.

Pete Hughes 3:07pm Aug 13 Can, cannot, will, will not ..... ha ha! Keep 'em coming Old Bean! :-)

Comment History

Santthosh Kumaar 3:06pm Aug 13 One cannot laugh without the thoughts. Thoughts will not rise without the form. One cannot laugh and enjoy without the form . Until one knows with what he is able to know himself and his experience of the world, he is in the states of ignorance. Laughter is the best medicine in the state of ignorance. Enjoy

Pete Hughes 2:51pm Aug 13 Some more thought nonsense, thanks Santthosh. Keep 'em coming! I enjoy a good laugh. :-)

Santthosh Kumaar 2:48pm Aug 13 Nonsense will remain as reality until ignorance prevails. When the reality appears this ignorance which one thinks as reality becomes unreal.

Pete Hughes 2:32pm Aug 13 Interesting musings, but as with all thought, just made up nonsense. :-)

Santthosh Kumaar 2:31pm Aug 13 Dear Pete, Very kind of you. Yes, it says nothing in non-dual reality but every word has meaning in duality , because duality is state of ignorance. Even the form,time and space is nothing but consciousness.Just by using language without words by using words, one cannot get rid of the ignorance, because the words are used within the scope form,time and space. Until form,time and space remains as reality, the words will remain as communicative tool. Thus people who have mastered the language without words are free to use it without using any words. I respect your views and wisdom.

View All Comments

Original Post

Santthosh Kumaar 9:06am Aug 13 The pursuit of truth is very personal journey. The self is nothing to do with the individual life because ups and down of life is mere illusion. The burden and bondage of life within the dream becomes unreal when waking takes place, similarly one is not affected by the suffering of the world when the self becomes aware of the fact that, it is neither waking entity nor the dream entity. Realizing the ultimate truth will not bring remedy for our present situation in our practical life within the practical world but it definitely brings freedom from experiencing the illusory practical life with the practical world as reality. A Gnani may go in silent mode and say nothing because he knows his body; ego and his experience of the world and the person who is questioning him are also as consciousness. Thus for him the forms and names are mere illusion created out of consciousness. And he has becomes one with the nature of the true self, which is non-dual silence. The physical existence is reality on the base of physical self. Whatever one feels as a person is reality within the physical existence. If physical existence is taken as reality then there is no meaning in seeking truth because he has accepted the physical existence as truth. Once physical existence is accepted as reality then the experiences within the physical existence prevail as reality. My point is we have to view our life from ultimate point of view, then only we become aware its illusory nature. The nature of things necessarily unpreventable and uncontrollable when one regards world as world of diversity. Only when one is able to base his-self from ultimate standpoint and views the experience of diversity [mind] as consciousness only, then he becomes aware of their unreal nature of the physical existence or mind. One, who has realized that existence and non-existence and change are in the nature of things, easily finds repose, being unperturbed and free from ignorance. The pain and pleasure exist as reality because of having the idea of two [duality]. To get rid of the reality of the pain and pleasure one has to find the formless substance of the duality [mind] to realize the whole diversity is created out of single substance, which is consciousness. Realizing the consciousness as ultimate truth, one becomes aware of the unreal nature of the mind, which appears as waking or dream [duality] and disappears as deep sleep [non-duality]. Serious Seekers who desirous to know the truth, for them nothing brings contentment other than acquiring the self-knowledge. For one who becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but consciousness becomes aware of the fact that, the physical existence [illusion] has no base, and its reality is in illusory in its nature. Our individual life is nothing to do with ultimate truth. The individual life is reality within the waking or dream. The three states are mere illusion on the ultimate standpoint. The ultimate truth, which is consciousness, is the substance and witness of the illusion and it is within the illusion and it is always apart and eternal. As person perceiving the world one thinks he is born in this world and world existed prior to him, this conviction makes him physical oriented, thus he views and judges the worldview on the physical base therefore his understanding is limited to the physicality. Deeper inquiry reveals the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless [consciousness]. On the base of formless [consciousness] as self, one becomes unreal nature of the mind, which appears as waking or dream. Thus, the waking is as unreal as dream. When man his world are within the illusion and all his experiences are happenings within the illusion. Until one thinks the physical self as real self, he is bound to be in the realm of duality. The one which knows itself as body with the name is not the body but it is consciousness. When the consciousness withdraws itself then there is neither body, nor the name, nor the world exists. And consciousness alone prevails as nondual existence. Where is the body, where is mind, where is the world; the void; or despair in the true self, which the taintless soul or consciousness. They are or have becomes consciousness. One thinks there is mind when he has thoughts, but when thoughts are not considered different from the consciousness, which is the true self, then where is the division into, waking, dream and deep sleep etc. Void implies to duality: the universe may not exist but the thought of the second is there. If one knows there is Void [emptiness/nothingness], then there is something there to be known and know. They are or have become consciousness. What are scriptures, what is self-knowledge, what is mind without the objects, what is contentment, and where is desirelessness for the formless soul/true self, which is ever devoid of sense of duality. What is knowledge? What is ignorance? What is the ego? What is duality? What is mind? What is bondage? What is liberation? What is definableness to the formless self/soul, which is in the form of consciousness? All these appearances are mere mirage, which come and go; hence meaningless to the formless soul/true self. The ego based knowledge is not ultimate knowledge because ego based knowledge is dualistic knowledge based on the object [body] as subject. But in non-dualistic Knowledge whatever seems to exist also is consciousness; therefore there is no scope for the existence of the second thing. What is past karmas? What is liberation –in this life? and what is that liberation at death? for the birth- less soul, which is ever formless. Nearest state to understand the soul by itself is to eliminate mentally waking and dream as in deep sleep. Once this is grasped one has to understand everything is consciousness, which is the true self. What is the doer or the enjoyer? What is cessation of thoughts or rising of thoughts? What is immediate perception and its result to, the formless soul, which is ever impersonal. A Gnani is the one who is never afraid of thinking and knowing all his individual experience and the world to be consciousness. What is the world and what is meant by the aspirant for liberation; what is contemplative and what is man of knowledge; what the self is and what liberated self to the formless soul, which is the non-dual essence. When we analyze the dream experience we find the dream entity, dream world with all people in it appeared as a whole, and the dream reality lasted until waking experience appeared. When one tries to know the truth of his true existence in waking through inquiry, analysis and reasoning, one becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless soul, which is in the form of consciousness which is the essence of the three states from which the three states are made. Thus the illusions of the three states are made of one single substance, which is consciousness. By realizing the formless substance, which is consciousness as self, the ignorance vanishes and one become aware of the fact that the three states are mere illusion on the standpoint of the formless substance ,which is also the witness of the three states. When knows the soul as the true self:- What are projection and retraction, what are end and means; what are failure and success to the formless soul, which is formless and non-dual in its nature. The mirage appears and merges back into its essence is not an appearance at all. What is the knower, the means of knowledge, the object of knowledge; what is anything or nothing to the soul which is ever formless. Knower, knowledge, object, thing, nothing or any word one may utter is after all they are the words and words have meaning only within the mirage. The consciousness is ever present in all the three states but as a person, one is unconscious of the consciousness because he thinks the body as his self. When all knowing, known and knower are simultaneously mental as in dream what else is there to trouble about understanding them. Because of considering the waking experience as reality one is incapable of understanding and assimilating the non-dual truth. What is the distraction? What is the concentration, dullness ad delusion, happiness and sorrow to the formless soul, which is ever actionless. As a person one may be drawn to observe his body and the world, but the Gnani is not disturbed by because they all are consciousness to him. The physical attributes are nothing to do with the soul/self wrongly; all the attributes belong to the ego not the soul. Identifying the physical attribute to the soul is the cause of the ignorance. What is relative? What is absolute happiness and misery to the formless soul, which is ever devoid of thought and activity? If anything has a meaning it is only in duality. Happiness and sorrow are the nature of duality, which is mind, their differences therefore illusory on the standpoint of the formless soul, which is ultimate reality. What is illusion? What is ignorance? What are birth, life and death? What is world? What is attachment and what is detachment to the soul/self, which is ever formless. The mind and soul are one in essence ultimately. All argument about consciousness never touches it. The soul is not the ego in this particular body but principle which holds the whole physical existence [universe], which contains everyone and everything known and unknown. All words have no place and thoughts cannot reach. Even the thought of the soul or consciousness is just illusory and contradictory, because the thought and words belong to the world of duality. What is activity or inactivity, liberation and bondage to the formless soul/self, which is ever immutable and indivisible. There is no division into nations, races and colours of kinds of men in wisdom. It is not enough to but one must always see the formless soul [consciousness] as self and the witness the witness of all the three states and always realize and practice it. Some people get glimpses of truth and lose it; so it must be established. Such fixidity is the goal. What is instruction and scriptural injunction? What is disciple and guru? What indeed is object of life for the formless soul, which is absolute and free from limitation? Life is with world. World is within the waking or dream, the illusory limitation. When there is no second other than consciousness, then what is there for the soul /self to attain? But when one thinks the self is physical, then there is various things he will want to get and so be trouble by their lack. Hence don’t wrongly imagine the self to be the body. What is existence, nonexistence, unity or duality? What need us there to say more? Noting from the soul because whatever seems to emanate from it, is non-different from itself. There is no second thing other than the soul, which is in the form of consciousness. One should not mistake self [soul] for the ego. Those who assert world is reality, are still in elementary stages of preliminary analysis. The world is reality within the waking experience but the waking experience is mere illusion. The same way the dream world was reality within the dream experience. The dream became unreal when waking took place same way waking becomes unreal when non-dual wisdom dawns.

Adyatmic discussion. -106

Pete Hughes commented on your post in Nisargadatta Maharaj.

Pete Hughes 3:08pm Aug 13 Medicine is not required when nothing has ever been amiss.

Comment History

Pete Hughes 3:07pm Aug 13 Can, cannot, will, will not ..... ha ha! Keep 'em coming Old Bean! :-)

Santthosh Kumaar 3:06pm Aug 13 One cannot laugh without the thoughts. Thoughts will not rise without the form. One cannot laugh and enjoy without the form . Until one knows with what he is able to know himself and his experience of the world, he is in the states of ignorance. Laughter is the best medicine in the state of ignorance. Enjoy

Pete Hughes 2:51pm Aug 13 Some more thought nonsense, thanks Santthosh. Keep 'em coming! I enjoy a good laugh. :-)

Santthosh Kumaar 2:48pm Aug 13 Nonsense will remain as reality until ignorance prevails. When the reality appears this ignorance which one thinks as reality becomes unreal.

Pete Hughes 2:32pm Aug 13 Interesting musings, but as with all thought, just made up nonsense. :-)

View All Comments

Original Post

Santthosh Kumaar 9:06am Aug 13 The pursuit of truth is very personal journey. The self is nothing to do with the individual life because ups and down of life is mere illusion. The burden and bondage of life within the dream becomes unreal when waking takes place, similarly one is not affected by the suffering of the world when the self becomes aware of the fact that, it is neither waking entity nor the dream entity. Realizing the ultimate truth will not bring remedy for our present situation in our practical life within the practical world but it definitely brings freedom from experiencing the illusory practical life with the practical world as reality. A Gnani may go in silent mode and say nothing because he knows his body; ego and his experience of the world and the person who is questioning him are also as consciousness. Thus for him the forms and names are mere illusion created out of consciousness. And he has becomes one with the nature of the true self, which is non-dual silence. The physical existence is reality on the base of physical self. Whatever one feels as a person is reality within the physical existence. If physical existence is taken as reality then there is no meaning in seeking truth because he has accepted the physical existence as truth. Once physical existence is accepted as reality then the experiences within the physical existence prevail as reality. My point is we have to view our life from ultimate point of view, then only we become aware its illusory nature. The nature of things necessarily unpreventable and uncontrollable when one regards world as world of diversity. Only when one is able to base his-self from ultimate standpoint and views the experience of diversity [mind] as consciousness only, then he becomes aware of their unreal nature of the physical existence or mind. One, who has realized that existence and non-existence and change are in the nature of things, easily finds repose, being unperturbed and free from ignorance. The pain and pleasure exist as reality because of having the idea of two [duality]. To get rid of the reality of the pain and pleasure one has to find the formless substance of the duality [mind] to realize the whole diversity is created out of single substance, which is consciousness. Realizing the consciousness as ultimate truth, one becomes aware of the unreal nature of the mind, which appears as waking or dream [duality] and disappears as deep sleep [non-duality]. Serious Seekers who desirous to know the truth, for them nothing brings contentment other than acquiring the self-knowledge. For one who becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but consciousness becomes aware of the fact that, the physical existence [illusion] has no base, and its reality is in illusory in its nature. Our individual life is nothing to do with ultimate truth. The individual life is reality within the waking or dream. The three states are mere illusion on the ultimate standpoint. The ultimate truth, which is consciousness, is the substance and witness of the illusion and it is within the illusion and it is always apart and eternal. As person perceiving the world one thinks he is born in this world and world existed prior to him, this conviction makes him physical oriented, thus he views and judges the worldview on the physical base therefore his understanding is limited to the physicality. Deeper inquiry reveals the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless [consciousness]. On the base of formless [consciousness] as self, one becomes unreal nature of the mind, which appears as waking or dream. Thus, the waking is as unreal as dream. When man his world are within the illusion and all his experiences are happenings within the illusion. Until one thinks the physical self as real self, he is bound to be in the realm of duality. The one which knows itself as body with the name is not the body but it is consciousness. When the consciousness withdraws itself then there is neither body, nor the name, nor the world exists. And consciousness alone prevails as nondual existence. Where is the body, where is mind, where is the world; the void; or despair in the true self, which the taintless soul or consciousness. They are or have becomes consciousness. One thinks there is mind when he has thoughts, but when thoughts are not considered different from the consciousness, which is the true self, then where is the division into, waking, dream and deep sleep etc. Void implies to duality: the universe may not exist but the thought of the second is there. If one knows there is Void [emptiness/nothingness], then there is something there to be known and know. They are or have become consciousness. What are scriptures, what is self-knowledge, what is mind without the objects, what is contentment, and where is desirelessness for the formless soul/true self, which is ever devoid of sense of duality. What is knowledge? What is ignorance? What is the ego? What is duality? What is mind? What is bondage? What is liberation? What is definableness to the formless self/soul, which is in the form of consciousness? All these appearances are mere mirage, which come and go; hence meaningless to the formless soul/true self. The ego based knowledge is not ultimate knowledge because ego based knowledge is dualistic knowledge based on the object [body] as subject. But in non-dualistic Knowledge whatever seems to exist also is consciousness; therefore there is no scope for the existence of the second thing. What is past karmas? What is liberation –in this life? and what is that liberation at death? for the birth- less soul, which is ever formless. Nearest state to understand the soul by itself is to eliminate mentally waking and dream as in deep sleep. Once this is grasped one has to understand everything is consciousness, which is the true self. What is the doer or the enjoyer? What is cessation of thoughts or rising of thoughts? What is immediate perception and its result to, the formless soul, which is ever impersonal. A Gnani is the one who is never afraid of thinking and knowing all his individual experience and the world to be consciousness. What is the world and what is meant by the aspirant for liberation; what is contemplative and what is man of knowledge; what the self is and what liberated self to the formless soul, which is the non-dual essence. When we analyze the dream experience we find the dream entity, dream world with all people in it appeared as a whole, and the dream reality lasted until waking experience appeared. When one tries to know the truth of his true existence in waking through inquiry, analysis and reasoning, one becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless soul, which is in the form of consciousness which is the essence of the three states from which the three states are made. Thus the illusions of the three states are made of one single substance, which is consciousness. By realizing the formless substance, which is consciousness as self, the ignorance vanishes and one become aware of the fact that the three states are mere illusion on the standpoint of the formless substance ,which is also the witness of the three states. When knows the soul as the true self:- What are projection and retraction, what are end and means; what are failure and success to the formless soul, which is formless and non-dual in its nature. The mirage appears and merges back into its essence is not an appearance at all. What is the knower, the means of knowledge, the object of knowledge; what is anything or nothing to the soul which is ever formless. Knower, knowledge, object, thing, nothing or any word one may utter is after all they are the words and words have meaning only within the mirage. The consciousness is ever present in all the three states but as a person, one is unconscious of the consciousness because he thinks the body as his self. When all knowing, known and knower are simultaneously mental as in dream what else is there to trouble about understanding them. Because of considering the waking experience as reality one is incapable of understanding and assimilating the non-dual truth. What is the distraction? What is the concentration, dullness ad delusion, happiness and sorrow to the formless soul, which is ever actionless. As a person one may be drawn to observe his body and the world, but the Gnani is not disturbed by because they all are consciousness to him. The physical attributes are nothing to do with the soul/self wrongly; all the attributes belong to the ego not the soul. Identifying the physical attribute to the soul is the cause of the ignorance. What is relative? What is absolute happiness and misery to the formless soul, which is ever devoid of thought and activity? If anything has a meaning it is only in duality. Happiness and sorrow are the nature of duality, which is mind, their differences therefore illusory on the standpoint of the formless soul, which is ultimate reality. What is illusion? What is ignorance? What are birth, life and death? What is world? What is attachment and what is detachment to the soul/self, which is ever formless. The mind and soul are one in essence ultimately. All argument about consciousness never touches it. The soul is not the ego in this particular body but principle which holds the whole physical existence [universe], which contains everyone and everything known and unknown. All words have no place and thoughts cannot reach. Even the thought of the soul or consciousness is just illusory and contradictory, because the thought and words belong to the world of duality. What is activity or inactivity, liberation and bondage to the formless soul/self, which is ever immutable and indivisible. There is no division into nations, races and colours of kinds of men in wisdom. It is not enough to but one must always see the formless soul [consciousness] as self and the witness the witness of all the three states and always realize and practice it. Some people get glimpses of truth and lose it; so it must be established. Such fixidity is the goal. What is instruction and scriptural injunction? What is disciple and guru? What indeed is object of life for the formless soul, which is absolute and free from limitation? Life is with world. World is within the waking or dream, the illusory limitation. When there is no second other than consciousness, then what is there for the soul /self to attain? But when one thinks the self is physical, then there is various things he will want to get and so be trouble by their lack. Hence don’t wrongly imagine the self to be the body. What is existence, nonexistence, unity or duality? What need us there to say more? Noting from the soul because whatever seems to emanate from it, is non-different from itself. There is no second thing other than the soul, which is in the form of consciousness. One should not mistake self [soul] for the ego. Those who assert world is reality, are still in elementary stages of preliminary analysis. The world is reality within the waking experience but the waking experience is mere illusion. The same way the dream world was reality within the dream experience. The dream became unreal when waking took place same way waking becomes unreal when non-dual wisdom dawns.

Adyathmic Discussion -105

Mohan Mishra commented on your post in Life's Q&A?!

Mohan Mishra 3:19pm Aug 13 Thanks Jesus Man..

Comment History

Mohan Mishra 2:20pm Aug 13 Thanks Natesh Mahadevan jee.

Mohan Mishra 12:00pm Aug 13 Only those persons can express who have masterd it...

Natesh Mahadevan 11:18am Aug 13 " The self, pervades all the three states. It is within the three states and it is the apart from the three states. It is apart because it is not and entity of identity within the three states " - where exactly does AUM bring this experience of being inclusive and exclusive of all the states...

Santthosh Kumaar 11:36pm Aug 12 All the confusion is because the mind is within the body and and body is self. Where the self is neither the waking entity nor the dream entity but the formless substance and witness of the three states. Until this not grasped the ignorance will prevail intact. when the self is not the form but formless then judgment has to be based on the formless not on the form. thus it is necessary to understand what is mind? in order to know what is truth and what is untruth. The mind is in the form of universe. The universe appears as waking or dream. The waking is unreal because it is the "Seen", like a dream. The reality and existence of the soul, which is in the form of consciousness, the most fundamental substance of the mind, which is in the form of universe, cannot be questioned, for this truth is self-evident. The consciousness is the true self. In fact, the self does not need any proof. The self is self-evident, and no one can deny its existence because it is the basis of all the three states. Everyone is conscious of the existence of his self and never thinks that it is in the form of consciousness. To doubt the existence of the self would be a contradiction in terms because then one would doubt the existence of the very doubter who engages in doubt. The existence of the doubter itself is based on the consciousness. Thus he has to find the reality of his own existence. Without the existence of the self, which is in the form of consciousness it is impossible for us to entertain the idea or even to be capable of refutation. Because the knowledge of the self is not established through the so-called means of right knowledge, it is self-established. Thus, the very existence of understanding and its functions presuppose the intelligence known as the self, that is self-established, different from these functions and on which they depend. Both the possibility of knowledge and the means of knowledge have relevance if there would be the self that is the source of all knowledge. Therefore, consciousness, which is the true self, is beyond all doubt, "for it is the essential nature of him who denies it. Therefore, it is the nature of the self, not its reality or existence, which is to be proved. The self must seek itself in order to find what it is, not that it iS. Consciousness pervades all the three states as their formless substance and witness. . it is formless without any parts, without qualities, spotless, having no abilities like going and coming, etc., devoid of ideas of `me' and `mine' and also of desire, aversion and effort. It possessing no organs like the intellect, etc., free from attributes. It is neither the breath nor the breather. It is untouched by the individual experiences of birth, life and death, which happens within the universe. The self, pervades all the three states. It is within the three states and it is the apart from the three states. It is apart because it is not and entity of identity within the three states. Consciousness is the deathless, birthless, eternal and real substance in all the three states. It is the unchanging reality behind the changing mind, which is in the form of universe. It is pure consciousness and it not affected by time, space and causality. It is limitless and without a second. In order to understand the true nature of consciousness one must discriminate the formless witness from three states.

Natesh Mahadevan 10:31pm Aug 12 most descriptions on Aum miss out on the most important vital aspect of the AUM... would urge you to research some more and then everything will collate very well...

View All Comments

Original Post

Santthosh Kumaar 5:23pm Aug 11 Even we find A, U, M in Vedantic literature, which in Hinduism uses as “OM”. The word AUM has been chosen because it is a short easily remembered syllable. The separate sounds of the word are symbols, nothing more. The combination of these three letter sounds in the one word symbolizes the world's unity. The three divisions of time--past present and future--are also symbolized. Moreover AUM contains three letters and Atman contains three states. Finally just as it requires four quarters to merge and make up a whole unity, so A, U, and M are three of these quarters. A: When one think of himself as seeing the waking experience ; but when he thinks of the self apart from that self is Atman. U: he regards his -self as being in the dream. This is a higher idea, because he knows that the universe is an object to the subject which is Ataman. M: When one understands that through deep sleep he is able to measure all else, that all other things (and the sounds A and U symbolizing them) merge back into Deep sleep, are all found in it, and re-appear from it. This is a still higher degree. Even if one takes any language he likes, he finds that A involves the opening of the mouth whereas M involves shutting it. Now all sound implies soundlessness, because it begins from that and ends with that. Hence the two always go together. Similarly the knower and Known go together to form Brahman, are always present together although we do not usually recognize it. AUM= Turiya: This is not a state, as the ignorant Orthodoxy think. This word includes all the three sounds, which have merged in it. So the waking merges in dream, the latter in sleep and all the three in AUM. The latter is a unity, nevertheless it contains a trinity. Thus when the word is made the subject of intelligent reflection, such meditation becomes a great help to attainment, as Advaitins says, for it thus becomes an examination of the whole of life. Sounds imply names, names imply objects, objects imply whole world. "Au" is beginning of all sounds, "uM" is the end of all sounds, even other sound is included within them, i.e. within AUM. Whatever may come in the future, whatever object existed in the past, whatever thing you can think of in the present--all these are included in the single word AUM, because all are named, hence are ideas, hence within the single mind. The word is a mnemonic purposely invented to give men in one short syllable, in the smallest compass, a handy reminder that everything--this table, your neck-tie, that cow,--is of one and the same essential character. Every time any object is seen, you utter Aum and thus remember that it, and all other things, are the self. Every object in the external world is indicated by a name. Hence the phrase "the universe consists of names and forms.” All names are but words. As soon as a word is uttered, what does your mind do? A thought comes. Now all these words in every language, all these sounds, all these thoughts, are compressed in the one word Aum; which also enables all objects to be comprehended by the Mind as being ideas. Hence this word is unique. Nothing exists which is outside the scope of referential meaning AUM. Aum therefore is the whole of existence, the universe. But why is this specific word Aum chosen for such high office? Take the first letter "AH". It is the sound phonetically uttered by the mouth when it first opens. "UM" is the sound it utters when at last it closes. Hence all sounds, without a single exception must becomprised between the opening and shutting of the lips, i.e. between "AH" and "UM" and as Brahman is silence, so ultimately the AUM disappears with the sounding of "UM" into silence, because the mouth must then shut. You have to use words to denote things, objects. You have to use letters to form words. The word AUM summarizes all other words. Finally even this word disappears when the sound of it goes. So the letting go of AUM is to make you drop the whole world and make you think of Brahman. Thus the mystery of AUM is wrapped in the meaning of words. Semantics aim at clarifying meanings but AUM ultimately shows you that all words are futile because they cannot express the ultimate nature of anything: Silence alone does this. One cannot produce any sound without opening the mouth and the first sound he utters while opening the mouth is A. Thus A is said to pervade all sounds. A is considered to be the symbol of the universe because all objects are indicated by ideas, and all ideas are indicated by sounds and all sounds are pervaded by the letter A. When we utter the word "sound" how can we understand the meaning of sound? It is only by distinguishing it from soundlessness that we can understand sound. All sounds are got from soundlessness. Similarly all the states are got from the Turiya, corresponding to soundlessness. We have to merge waking into dreams, then merge dream into deep sleep. And finally we have to merge even this into Turiya. AUM is conceived as the whole universe, which has got four quarters. How can one know that the universe and the self-[soul] are identical? The answer is "Look into his -self--the Atman.” This Atman has also four corresponding quarters. When one utter the word AUM, the waking comes before him: when he thinks of dream, the dream states come before him; and so also with sleep. Thus every time he utters the word AUM the three states come before him. Meditation on symbols is meant for dull and mediocre intellects. When we utter the word AUM we must think of the three states and also of the Ataman. Aum is a sound, how can it be an elephant? "All sounds" means all objects, or entire Brahman. Anything which is a thought, is an idea, and hence a superimposition. Aum is the substratum of all the words. It is the word of Atman. Aum stands for the sound and not the letter which is found in all languages. It sums up all the sounds in all the languages. As upon the mind everything else is super-imposed, so upon the Aum everything else is superimposed. The sound has for its substratum or substance one’s own self. It comes from and disappears into the self, which is Atman. All this baggage is not necessary in pursuit of truth. Seeker has to find and realize “What is mind?” and “What is the substance of the Mind?” nothing else in order to unfold the mystery of the physical existence [universe]. The individual experiences happening within the universe, such as birth, life and death and pain and pleasure are nothing to do with the self, which is formless consciousness. Thus, it is necessary to know the self is formless to realize the fact that, the burden of the human is not on the body but it is on the Self [soul or consciousness], which the religionists call it as God/Brahman/ Christ/Buddha and intellectuals call it as Consciousness. Thus consciousness alone is real. The human and universe is mere mirage created out of consciousness. Know the consciousness as true self then one becomes free from experiencing the mirage [birth, life, death and the universe] as reality.