Adyathmic Discussion- 314

In dualistic philosophies the imaginary god is made as creator basing on cause and effect theory. Then the doubt naturally arises, who is the cause of the creator. The creator is dependent on creation for his existence. Without the creation the creator ceases to exist. Thus the dualistic theory holds no water, because it is based on mere imagination and speculation, which they try to prove it on citing the mythological stories and doctrine of code of conducts. When the self is not the body then all these dualistic ideologies hold no water. Therefore the devotional paths, which are based on the human conducts, are not the means for TRUTH –REALIZATION.

Even the religious based non-dualism is not the means for truth realization, because their preaching is based on the Nonduality but their practice is based on dualistic view point. Therefore, it is difficult to get TRUTH –REALIZATION from conduct based orthodox non-dualism. Thus it looks like the real essence of non-dualism is lost or destroyed in the past by the orthodox oriented priest craft and propagated and injected only priest-crafted non-dualism, to the mass, the reason best known to the masters of the past. Therefore, it is impossible to come out of all these priest crafted confusions in one life time. Through orthodox non-dualism it is impossible to get truth realization. 

There is no need to collect all this baggage of confusions, if one is seeking truth, nothing but truth. The guru is necessary only in religious and yogic paths, but guru is not necessary in pursuit of truth. The path of truth is a personal path and it is the path of verification. But in religion and yoga the verification is not allowed. Blind faith is the main ingredient in the belief system and yoga. Gurudom is playing with words because maybe the meaning is floating somewhere in between the spaces of words...--FORMLESS PATH

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  Sulochan Ps and Kris Peterson like this.
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    Trev Light Bown How can the "seeker" find truth by a "personal" path.
    Both seeker and the person you think you are is the problem.
    

    March 14 at 2:12pm ·  · 1
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    Santthosh Kumaar Dear Trevor,
    I respect your views and wisdom
    As per my conviction derived from deeper self-search
    The words are used only communication purpose. The look of an object will depend upon the medium through which the observer views it. In fact, our mental and intellectual conditions will determine the phenomenal world observed and experienced. The ignorant viewing the world confronting him sees it different from a Gnani viewing the same world. Each one of us interprets the world one sees in terms of his existing knowledge. A Gnani sees world and its contents as the illusory play as consciousness whereas ignorant sees the world and its contents as reality.
    Without realization of the ultimate truth or Brahman man remains as ignorant of the ultimate truth or Brahman. Without realization of ultimate truth, the seeker remains as seeker. On physical plan there is seeker, seeking and destination but from ultimate standpoint there is neither seer, seeking and or destination.
    The words may give different meaning at different level of understanding. As one moves deeper and deeper one realizes the thought, thinker, words and the world are one in essence. Thus in the realm of truth the thought and words become meaningless.
    When one who has realized that which lies beyond form, time and space does not give impotence to thoughts and words which has value only in falsehood.
    World is both real and unreal. It is real because it is a manifestation of consciousness, but is unreal, in the sense, that it is not absolute and eternal like consciousness itself.
    Peoples approach is more practical, and they stuck with the reality of the world, they take it as real. That is why all the confusion.
    

    March 14 at 4:29pm · 
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    Patty Jonas · Friends with Sulochan Ps

    Ive heard this argument a hundred times and I still get lost in the part about whos talking and whos listening OH WELL Simple Minds are sweet too!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    

    March 15 at 2:11am · 
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    Patty Jonas · Friends with Sulochan Ps

    and have other talents elsewhere
    

    March 15 at 2:12am · 
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    Santthosh Kumaar 
    

    listener and talker along with the world we exist are one in essence. Soul or consciousness is our innermost self is the witness that experiences the action, the actor, and the world of separate things. It is like a light that illuminates everything in a theatre, revealing the master of ceremonies, the guests, and the dancers with complete impartiality. Even when they all depart, the light shines to reveal their absence.
    
    What is not consciousness (formless) in the experience of diversity [waking]? The waking and the dream cease to exist without consciousness. The seeker, seeking and his destination all are one in essence. if one knows that essence as his innermost self than there is nothing to argue. there is no scope for argument in the realm of truth.

    
    

    March 15 at 7:41am · 

People take to the path of belief or of authoritarianism merely because they are the easiest ways.

 

God is not belief. Holding belief as God is holding illusion as reality, because the belief is possible only within the realm of duality. Duality is mere illusion from the ultimate standpoint.  Without the belief of God the belief system holds no water.  Belief is not God. Belief needs the believer. Believer needs to be born in this world. If believer is born than he is part of the illusion.   Without the believer there is no belief.  The believer and his world and his belief of GOD are part of the illusion because the self is birth-less because the self is formless. The one, which is born, lives and dies, is not the self.    The innermost self is formless substance and witness of the falsehood [universe or waking or illusion], which is soul or consciousness, consciousness is ultimate truth or Brahman or Christ.  

 

People take to the path of belief or of authoritarianism merely because they are the easiest ways. To seek for proof is hard and time-consuming. Religion and mysticism are so much preferred to Spirituality because one has only to imagine, not to inquire. The first is easy, the second is hard.

Peoples approach is more practical, and they stuck with the reality of the world, they take it as real. That is why all the confusion.

That is why  Sri, Sankara says (VC):-

63. Without causing the objective universe to vanish and without knowing the truth of the Self, how is one to achieve Liberation by the mere utterance of the word Brahman ? — It would result merely in an effort of speech.

65. As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a knower of Brahman, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted arguments.

Religion and mysticism is a species of mesmerism affecting weaker or impressionable minds. Thus the god man creates unconscious suggestion in weaker minds of a superior power or magical knowledge. Followers are suggested into thinking they experience great peace because they are unconsciously hypnotized into believing that will happen. But when a strong disciplined spiritually inclined mind meets a god man, he is entirely unaffected.

Scriptures are being added to from time to time with new interpretation. This process will go on. There is the final authority among them? One contradicts the other: duality reigns supreme. 

That is why Sage Sri, Sankara says in (VC) :-

58. Loud speech consisting of a shower of words, the skill in expounding the Scriptures, and likewise erudition - these merely bring on a little personal enjoyment to the scholar, but are no good for Liberation.

59. The study of the Scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known.

60. The Scriptures consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely causes the mind to ramble. Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of the Self.

Without the scriptures one has to move ahead in his pursuit of truth.

Sri, Sankara says in (VC) :-

65. As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a knower of Brahman, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted arguments.

66. Therefore the wise should, as in the case of disease and the like, personally strive by all the means in their power to be free from the bondage of repeated births and deaths.

The world is both real and unreal. It is real because it is a manifestation of consciousness, but is unreal, in the sense, that it is not absolute and eternal like consciousness itself.

Peoples approach is more practical, and they stuck with the reality of the world, they take it as real. That is why all the confusion.

In self-awareness-- the witness and witnessed are one in essence. That essence is consciousness. There is no second thing exists other than consciousness.

Thus whatever seen, known, believed and experienced as a person is reality within the waking experience but waking experience itself is mere illusion.  

Soul, which is present in the form of consciousness, is the innermost self. Consciousness is the witness that experiences the action, the actor, and the world of separate things. It is like a light that illuminates everything in a theatre, revealing the master of ceremonies, the guests, and the dancers with complete impartiality. Even when they all depart, the light shines to reveal their absence.

What is not consciousness (formless) in the experience of duality (waking or universe)?  The waking and the dream cease to exist without consciousness.  The seeker, seeking and his destination   all are one in essence.

There is only need to realize the whole universe in which we exist is created out of consciousness (soul or Atman), the innermost self.  On the standpoint innermost self, the universe is mere illusion created out of consciousness.  Thus on the ultimate standpoint no second thing exists other than consciousness. Thus consciousness is ultimate truth or Brahman.