The universe and the idea of God are dependent on the man for their existence***

People think, by visiting gurus, saints and sages and yogis, by  indulging in  glorifying  God and Guru, by   yogic practice  or by meditation they get enlightenment. But all these are only for the people who are unable to investigate through deeper self-search. 

·         How the god and the universe can exist without the man?

The universe and the idea of God are dependent on the man for their existence. Therefore, it is necessary to investigate one’s own existence to verify the existence of  the universe and God.

Man ceases to exist without the mind. Therefore, it proves that  the Man, God, and the universe cease to exist without the mind. And it also it proves that all these things together is mind.  Thus,  the experience of duality which present as the waking state is mind. The mind which appears and disappears, means it becomes dual and non-dual. Therefore, it is for the seeker to discover and realize what is the mind in order to unfold the mystery of his own existence.

People are thinking,  by killing the ego one can get enlightenment,  therefore they involve in all types of acrobats prescribed by the religious scriptures, gurus and yogis.  But is it is impossible to overcome the ego. Ego man and the world,  the  idea of god and whatever known and seen are within the mind. And the mind is Waking experience. Therefore, one has to overcome the mind or experience of duality in order to realize the true identity which is non-dual Ataman or the Spirit.

All these experiences as father, son, guru, and pupil were one and the same consciousness appearing differently. All these distinctions disappear when one realizes the ultimate truth.

In the dream the mountain which is apparently insentient and material, is nevertheless still your mind alone. Whether living or dead, conscious or unconscious thought or matter; all things are appearances of one and the same consciousness. All these distinctions are seen by Gnani as only the consciousness. : ~ Santthosh Kumaar

Man has to make sure whether he is man or mind through inquiry and reasoning, then only he will become aware of the fact that he is not a man but the mind. Therefore, his physical identity that is ‘I’ is not the Self. Therefore, searching the self by inquiring who am ’ I ’ not yielding results, until and unless one knows what ‘I’ really is? Therefore, searching truth as a person on the base of ‘my’ is erroneous.

The ‘I’ is the ignorance. Till one hold the ‘I’ as self it is impossible to acquire Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.  Thus,   the seeker has to get rid of the ignorance, which is present in the form of ‘I’, in order to realize the ultimate truth or Brahman. : ~ Santthosh Kumaar

It is very much necessary to know what mind is in order to know the man and his experience of the universe and his idea of god and religion and whatever seen and known are part of the illusory experience which is present as Waking state. The witness and the substance of the illusory waking experience is formless and non-dual that is Ataman or Spirit. To realize the Ataman or  the Spirit, the  soulcentric reasoning is only the tool.



The Man within the illusory duality recognizes his body as body, his ego as ego, his experience of the world as the world, he is unaware of the fact that, he is the product of the ignorance. Once the ignorance vanishes through the wisdom, then the body will not remain as a body, the ego will not remain as the ego, the world will not remain as the world, because everything merges into the substance from which they are created. That substance is the soul, which is present in the form of the consciousness. The consciousness is ultimate reality or Brahman. It is necessary to drop all accumulated knowledge which is blocking our realization.   Only through perfect understanding of ‘what is what’ leads to the  nondualistic or Advaitic self-awareness.

Embark on the journey of the truth; it frees the Soul from the illusion of the form, time, and space*****

Embark on the journey of the truth; it frees the Soul from the illusion of the form, time,  and space.

The Truth is very simple but it is a very difficult grasp because of the ignorance. You have to only realize the world in which you exist is created out of single clay. And that single clay is the Soul, which is present in the form of the consciousness.

Thus,  you and your body and the world in which you exist are nothing but consciousness because they are mere an illusion created out of the consciousness. Perfect understanding of ‘what is what’ is needed. Perfect understanding and assimilation of ‘what is what,’ leads to a perfect conviction of ‘What is truth?” and ‘What is the untruth?.  Perfect conviction of the truth leads to Advaitic self-awareness.

I can point at the sky, but the seeing of the star is the seeker's own work. It is necessary to reflect on the same truth again and again till it becomes reality. One needs to a constant reflect on the subject until he gets a firm conviction of what is what. Words are needed until one gets a firm conviction of ‘what is what’. People need reading and hearing the words, to think reason and reflect deeply and reach the ultimate end

When you finally realize the  ‘Self ‘ is not you  but the ‘Self’ is the Soul then you will realize the world in which you exist is mere an illusion created out of the Soul, which is present in the form of the consciousness.

 Thus, you, your experience birth, life, death and the world mere an illusion created out of the consciousness, the consciousness is the ultimate truth or Brahman or God.

 You are not the witness because the ‘Self' is not you.  The Self is the Soul, which witnesses the world, in which you exist. The world is mere an illusion thus, you are part of the illusion. 

 In reality, the Soul and the world in which you exist are one, in essence.  Thus, there is no second thing exists other than the Soul, which is present in the form of the consciousness.

Perfect understanding and assimilation of ‘what is what,’ leads to a perfect conviction of ‘What is truth?” and ‘What is the untruth?.  Perfect conviction of the truth leads to Advaitic self-awareness. :

It is not you, who has to be free, but it is the soul, the innermost Self has to be free itself, by realizing it is not the man perceiving the world. People want to get freedom, but the freedom comes only when the soul wakes up without the illusory body and the illusory world (duality).

 It is the soul, the innermost self is in the cage of illusion. It is the soul that wants to get out of the illusion because the illusion and the reality are one in essence. That essence is the soul, which is present in the form of the consciousness.  Thus, all that man experiences within the dualistic illusion of practical life within the practical world  as a reality is  a falsehood.

 On Nondualistic perspective, there is no second thing exist other than the consciousness (spirit). Thus, the consciousness is ultimate truth or Brahman or God. On the standpoint of Brahman or God, everything is Brahman or God or  the Spirit. 

The pursuit of truth is a very personal journey.  The Soul, the innermost Self is nothing to do with the individual life, because the individual is one who is born,lives and dies, whereas  the soul is birthless and deathless. 

The burden and bondage of life within the dream become unreal   when the waking takes place. Similarly,  the  burden and bondage of life within the  waking experience becomes unreal, when wisdom dawns. 

The Soul, the innermost self is neither waking entity nor the dream entity but the soul is the witness of the coming and going of the three states. When the Soul, the innermost Self wakes up than  the three states are mere an illusion. all the three states are created out of single stuff. that single stuff is the soul,which is present in the form of the consciousness. 

Realizing the ultimate truth will not bring the remedy for our present situation in our practical life within the practical world,  but it definitely brings freedom from experiencing the illusory practical life with the practical world as reality.
A Gnani  knows his body, his  ego and his experience of the world are  nothing but mere an illusion created out  of the consciousness.  Thus,  for him, the forms and names are merely an  illusion created out of the  consciousness.  A Gnani  has become  one with the nature of the Soul ,which is present in the form of the Spirit or the consciousness.     
The universe is physical existence. The physical existence is  a reality on the base of  the physical self ( ego or you).  Whatever  is based on the ego  is a  reality within the physical existence.
If physical existence is taken as reality,  then there is no meaning in seeking the  truth, because he has accepted the physical existence as truth.  Once physical existence is accepted as a  reality then the experiences within the physical existence prevail as a reality. 
The seeker has to learn to view and judge the three states on the standpoint of the soul, which is the witness of the three states.  deeper self-search reveals the fact that,  man (waking entity)  is not the self  but the soul is the innermost self.  
We are within the illusion. Whatever we see,  feel, known, believed and experienced are also within the illusion. The formless substance and witness of the illusion are the Soul, which is present in the form of the consciousness. 
In self-awareness,  the substance and witness are one in essence. That essence is the soul, which is present in the form of the consciousness (Spirit).      
The dream entity and the dream world are within the dream. Similarly, you and your experience of the world are within the waking experience.  The witness of the dream is not the waking entity.  Similarly, the witness of the waking experience is not the waking entity. The Soul is the witness of the coming and going of the three states.   The three states are nothing to do with the Soul, the innermost Self, because on the standpoint of the Soul, the innermost Self,   the three states are non-existent as a reality.

Self-discovery is the only way, towards non-dual Absolute*****

Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atama Gnana  cannot be attained by the study of the scriptures and intellectual understanding or by bookish knowledge.  Therefore,there is no use of studying the scriptures and other scriptures in order to acquire the non-dual wisdom.  

That is why Bhagavan Buddha rejected the scriptures, and even Sage Sri, Sankara indicated that  the ultimate truth lies beyond religion, concept of god and scriptures. 

Scriptures are being added to from time to time. This process will go on. There is the final authority among them? One contradicts the other: duality reigns supreme.
I quote Scriptural citation only after   verification reality and proved the truth, to point out that the scriptures teach the same thing. If one quotes them before having demonstrated truth, then it is scholasticism.

There is only one Reality to be known, the same for all seekers, but the ways to it, are hidden by the religion.  Self-discovery is the only way, towards non-dual Absolute without any religious doctrines, which will help the seekers to unfold the mystery of the illusion in which we all are searching the truth of our true existence.

Bhagavan Buddha said: - Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

Many people quote Advaita without understanding it really in its highest aspect. One who follows the path of Advaitic orthodoxy is  taken the path of ignorance. "How does he know that what Sage Sri, Sankara says is true?  There are  conflicting teachings. People get  confused as to which are true?" People  will be unable to prove because they  do not know the proper test of truth.The Veda serves only as the starting point. What one has to learn from Veda must be understood through the exercise of reason, as far as reason might go. And what one has understood must be realized in one’s life.

Only pretenders show such external works or claims. People who do not understand the scriptures generally misinterpret all scriptures references to the ‘indifference’ of the sage as meaning sitting idle, remote from worldly concerns. "Though the scripters speak of a direct knowledge of ultimate truth by a study of the holy texts it does not become established..." It is therefore not enough to say one understand the theories of Advaita; he may grasp idealism and Manduka, but it is not enough.

The citations from scriptures are not proofs.  The ultimate truth has to be proved without the scriptures.  The ultimate truth is the universal truth, and it does not belong to any religion.  The religion causes diversity in unity, whereas, the ultimate truth brings unity in diversity. 

It is not that one should pore over the ancient scriptures.  There is no need to study first then realize. One has to realize first then only he will know ‘what is truth’ and ‘what is untruth’.  One has to make his discoveries through the process of rational thinking. 

That is why Sage Sri, Sankara says: -V-C :-65. As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a knower of Brahman, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted arguments.
It means-  search the truth  independently on your own, therefore,  there is no need of any teacher or teaching the truth has to be  ascertained by the seeker himself. Until the seeker realizes the truth,  how can he know what is the untruth?  How can one know the teacher knows the truth or teaching speaking of the truth? The seeker should not accept anything as truth without deeper introspection. Only uncontradictable truth has to be accepted as the ultimate truth of Brahman. The path of truth is the path of verification. Nothing has to be accepted as truth without verification.

The Guru is useless so long as the ultimate truth is unknown, and guru is equally useless when the ultimate truth or Brahman   has already been known.  Guru is needed in the religious and yogic path.  There is no need of the guru in to acquire self-knowledge.

That is why Sage Sri Sankara himself says:- VC 59. The study of the Scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known.

60. The Scriptures consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely causes the mind to ramble. Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of the Self.

61. For one who has been bitten by the serpent of Ignorance, the only remedy is the knowledge of Brahman. Of what avail are the Vedas and (other) Scriptures, Mantras (sacred formulae) and medicines to such a one?

62. A disease does not leave off if one simply utter the name of the medicine, without taking it; (similarly) without direct realization one cannot be liberated by the mere utterance of the word Brahman.

63. Without causing the objective universe to vanish and without knowing the truth of the Self, how is one to achieve Liberation by the mere utterance of the word Brahman ? — It would result merely in an effort of speech.

Self-Knowledge is achievable without the grace of any guru or conceptual god or the mercy of some god men. Seeker has to simply wake up to the Reality (consciousness), which is the formless substance and witness of the unreality (universe of mind). At the end of the quest, the seeker becomes aware of the fact that, the true self is consciousness.  There is nothing exists other than consciousness. Thus consciousness is Ultimate Reality.

The consciousness is being identified by another name "Nothingness", because truly if there was Nothingness, in the end, there must be one "final witness" to that Nothingness.

When one unconsciously reaches the goal it is called physical death***

From Theresa:~
 

Dear santthosh/, dear Phil,

I just read all your contributions to the group, and I want to thank you for this. It is really inspiring and entertaining, and I recognize a subtle "I know more than you, I know how it is right" tendency.

To me it sounds a little like a guru discussion. And I very much appreciate this; it really is like the spice in the soup for this group, thank you very much. I agree on some points with santthosh, I agree on some points with Phil.

I have some questions for you both and hope I am blessed with your answers.

1. What causes seeking?

2. When will the seeking end/ how long is the search and when do I find out that the search is finished?

3. What is mind?

4. What is thought and where does it come from/ how is it generated?

5. Why should we seek for truth?

6. If the seeker is the sought then why search?

7. How to have the direct experience of truth?

8. it said "the atman/Brahman/ absolute is everything", does it mean the search for it already happens in atman and isn't it than just a game made up by the mind whose characteristic it is to seek/crave/improve/ get somewhere?

9. "there is no purpose to life" you say, but on the other hand it seems you say seeking/ realizing the truth is the core of being, so isn't this a purpose?

10. it does not matter if we search or not, if we realize the truth or not, the eternal self is and remains untouched, because seeking happens within duality, within the realm of mind and thought and absolute truth is beyond that - true?

And, I cannot find anything bad with duality. Without duality, non- duality could not be experienced. without the effort and strivings (in duality) of the mind and the ultimate falling away of the search it could not be realized that that what we have been searching for was

already that which we have been searching from and it has already always been so and will always be, and is. All this seeking is like saying:~ truth, love, the self cannot be here now, it must be somewhere else, someday in the future, in the Himalayas, in the scriptures, somewhere hidden in my mind or whatever concept about realizing the self or enlightenment we might have, etc. it is called the SELF, where else can it be than what are you?
 

Even "the seeker", another form of ego/separate imagined self, even though it is a great imagined self which acknowledges that he does not know anything and therefore seeks to awaken from his ignorance, has to disappear so self might be revealed. and still somehow it seems that this seeker has to appear to try it all to come to a point where he sees that he will never "arrive" there, he cannot, for he himself is a mind construct, that covers the sun like our own fingernail held before the (inner) eye.

on the other hand his the search so filled with joy, blissful moments, glimpses of "knowledge" and insights, spiritual experience (spiritual candy as my guru put it), moments where "you" think you know it all and now can go and teach others, "you" have discovered something which no one else has, you are special because you are spiritual, etc., there are valley and peak experiences and it is juicy and full of drama and aliveness this search and some people seem as if they don't want to come out of the search ever. Some even seem to think being human means to seek forever. But a search has a goal, even though the mind cannot conceive of this goal. it is the end of the mind, the empty silent mind that is needed so the self can realize itself.

Mind and duality are needed, it is not an enemy to the self. Without the body mind truth cannot experience itself in the form and therefore realize itself.

Wishing you all a wonderful day.

Theresa

Posted

My reply

Dear Theresa,

Thank you for your letter. At the same time I say please do not count me among those, who say I know more, and I know how it is right. I do not have that attitude and that tendency. I just shared my view points. I know Phil, and we interacted in another forum. Mr. Phil is a great thinker and great master, and he is a greatest asset to the spiritual world. I admire and respect him. It is foolishness to claim that I know more and better than Phil. Please do not count me in that category; I am not in that rat race. I do not claim myself to be a master, teacher or guru. I am just what I am. I avoid being in such rate race.

I do not like to add spice in the soup, it is better to have soup as it is, without add-ons to it, to get a real hang of it. Whether you agree or not the truth remains as truth.

In my experience, Seeker will find answers for all his questions when he drops viewing and judging on standpoint of his accumulated knowledge and receptive to receive self-knowledge.  Intellectual discussion based on egocentric (physical based) theories will not lead the seeker anywhere, and it is a waste of time and effort because it will not yield any fruits. 

If one knows the true self, then, he will realize the fact that he and his world are part of the illusion, on the standpoint of the true self.  There is neither seeker nor seeking nor duality in reality. The whole experience of duality (mind) is illusion. And the substance of the mind is formless and nondual in its nature and that substance itself is the true self or Atman.

1. What causes seeking?

ANS: Ignorance of the true self causes the seeking.

2. When will the seeking end/ how long is the search and when do I find out that the search is finished?

ANS: When the ignorance is overcome the seeking ends. As long as the ignorance is there the search continues

3. What is mind?

ANS: Mind is objective awareness

4. What is thought and where does it come from/ how is it generated?

ANS: Thoughts are present only when there is objective awareness is there. Absent of objective awareness is absent of thoughts and experience. Therefore,it is erroneous to find the source of the thought, because without the objective awareness the thoughts and experience cease to exist. Only people, who think the physical body as self, try to search the source of the thought. Seeking truth on the physical body as self itself is erroneous. The source of objective awareness is the true self or Atman.

5. Why should we seek for truth?

ANS: To overcome the ignorance of the reality of the true existence.

6. If the seeker is the sought then why search?

ANS: The seeker exists until he experiences the illusion (duality) as reality. When wisdom dawns the duality becomes unreal. Same way as the dream becomes unreal, when the waking takes place. When the wisdom dawns then the seeker and his experience ceases to exist as reality. Therefore he realizes the fact that there is neither the seeker nor seeking in reality, on the standpoint of the true self (Atman).

7. How to have the direct experience of truth?

ANS: When man is not the author of his own experience, how can man claim authorship of the direct experience which is not his own experience. 

8. it is said "the atman/brahman/ absolute is everything", does it mean the search for it 

 already happens in atman and isn't it then just a  

game made up by the mind whose characteristic it is to 

seek/crave/improve/ get somewhere

ANS: to understand this seeker has to learn to view and judge the worldview on the base of Ataman as self. If seeker clings to an idea or theory as the inalterable truth, then the truth does come in person and knock at his door, he will not be able to open the door and accept it. As long as he has not realized the Ataman that permeates all, it is essential to be receptive and verify after studying the full subject what I say. Seeker of truth should not hold to the intellectual understanding from other sources and mix it -up and make a hotchpotch of it; he has to focus his attention the root of the objective awareness which is Ataman, and realize the objective awareness is mere illusion.

9. "there is no purpose to life" you say, but on the other hand it seems you say seeking / realizing the truth is the core of being , so it is not this purpose?  

ANS: one feels there is the purpose of life only when he is ignorant of the true self, and views and judges the worldview on the base of the false self (I).  On the base of the true self birth, life and death are mere illusion. Therefore,purpose of life is a reality only when one accepts the duality as reality.

10. it does not matter if we search or not, if we realize the truth or not, the eternal self is and remains untouched, because seeking happens within the duality , within the realm of the mind and thought and absolute truth is beyond that true?

ANS: until one thinks the eternal self is apart and the world is apart he will remain in the realm of duality experiencing as reality.  The duality and mind is one and the same thing. The experience is prior to thought. Without the experience of duality man and his world ceases to exist. Without the man the thought will not arise. It is foolish venture to search the truth on the thought which arises with in the mind or experience of duality. Therefore without understanding the full subject if one hangs on his own theory and idea of truth he will remain in the realm of falsehood or mind until it disappears on its own.

11. I cannot find anything bad with duality. Without duality, non-duality could not be experienced. 

ANS :The duality is neither good nor bad, duality is falsehood or illusion. The false hood is created out of the real. Without the non-duality (real) duality (unreal) ceases to exist. Until one becomes aware of the fact that he is not the author of his own experience the duality will prevail as reality 

12. Without the effort and strivings (in duality) of the mind and the ultimate falling away of the search it could not be realized that that what we have been searching for was already that which we have been searching from and it has already always been so and will always be, and is. all this seeking is like saying: truth, love, the self cannot be here now, it must be somewhere else, some day in the future, in the Himalayas, in the scriptures, somewhere hidden in my mind or whatever concept about realizing the self/enlightenment we might have etc. it is called the SELF, where else can it be than what you are?

ANS:-All the effort and strivings are happening within the falsehood (duality) the truth cannot be grasped on the base of false entity. Deeper inquiry and reasoning reveals the fact that neither the physical body nor the ‘I’ is the true self then why to seek the truth on the false entity (I or physical body as self). Rectifying the seeking base is very much necessary to discover, assimilate and realize the true self. This is possible only when the seeker is ready to learn to seek truth on the true base and ready to learn to view and judge the worldview on the true base without any argument and theorizing everything on his own point of view. 

Even "the seeker", another form of ego/separate imagined self, even though  it is great imagined self who acknowledges that he does not know anything and therefore seeks to awaken from his ignorance, has to disappear so self might be   revealed. and still somehow it seems that this seeker has to appear to try it all to come to a point where he  sees that he will never " arrive " there, he cannot , for he himself  is a mind construct , that covers the sun like our own fingernail held before the inner eye. 

ANS:- All this doubts, and confusion will prevail until seeker thinks the physical body or ‘I’ as a self.  Therefore,it is necessary to understand burning all the physical based accumulated dross and seek the truth on the base of true self. Then only it is possible to assimilate the nondual truth.

On the other hand his the search so filled with joy, blissful moments, glimpses of "knowledge" and insights, spiritual experience (spiritual candy as my guru put it) ,

ANS: All those blissful moment are reality within the duality. For the realized mind the pain and pleasure are part of the illusion. The one which witnesses the duality (birth, life and death or pain or pleasure) is unaffected. The true self is within the duality as its formless substance. And it is apart from duality, as its formless witness. It is apart because it is not and entity or identity within the duality, because it is formless and nondual in its nature.

Moments where "you" think you know it all and now can go and teach others, "you" have discovered something which no one else has, you are special because you are spiritual etc., there are valley and peak experiences and it is juicy and full of drama and aliveness this search and some people seem as if they don't want to come out of the search ever.

ANS: The drama itself is duality, everything is happening within the duality. The individual experience within the duality is as real as a dream. The one which witnesses the dream witnesses the waking also as a whole. Whatever is happening within the waking also  is a  false hood.  The soul,which is the formless witness of the waking and dream is the ultimate truth which  Sage Sri, Sankara called it as BRAMHAN.

All the seeking is happening within the  duality, and there is no teaching, no teacher no disciple no universe in realm of nondualistic or Advaitic  truth. Truth is not individual property it is universal. No one is special; everyone is heading towards that nondual goal consciously or unconsciously. When one unconsciously reaches the goal it is called physical death. When consciously realizes in the midst of the experience of duality it is called nondualistic or Advaitic  wisdom.

Some even seem to think being human means to seek forever. But a search has a goal, even though the mind cannot conceive of this goal. It is the end of the  mind, the empty silent mind that is needed so the self can realize itself. Mind and duality is needed, it is not an enemy to the self. Without the body mind truth cannot experience itself the in form and therefore realize itself.

ANS: Until and unless the seeker becomes aware of the soul , the innermost self and learns to view and judge  the worldview on the base of the soul, the innermost self,  than he is bound to view and judge the worldview on the  ego,which is the false self, and permanently remain in confusion as per his  idea and  deep rooted conviction.   Once he learns to view and judge on the true base, all clouds of doubts and confusion will start clearing. Since, many refuse to verify the facts other then their accepted truth they will remain prisoners of their own accepted truth.

 In the realm of truth I, you, others and the universe are mere illusion. And the illusion is created out of  a single substance which is consciousness(soul). Thus there is no second thing other then Ataman in the experience of diversity, hence it is nondual

Choosing the path

The people, who are in the mystical path, will like religion and scriptures. The people, who are searching to experience of bliss, will like yoga. The people, who are seeking truth, will chose  the path of wisdom. Every path is very valuable in its own way to its seekers.  Thus, it is necessary not to compare the teachings with one another.

The general discussion will help the seekers, to acquire higher knowledge. Buddha rejected the religion, scriptures, and concept of god when he found them; they are inadequate and useless, in pursuit of truth. Same way seeker of truth has to reject everything, which is  an obstacle  to realizing the nondualistic or Advatic truth, where there is no place for all our physical based accumulated knowledge.

Love

Santthosh