Adyathmic Discussion -367

Trev Light Bown What do you mean by mentally grasped as in the following paragraph. "Deeper self-search reveals the fact that the, self is neither the waking entity nor the self is the dream entity but the self is formless soul, which witnesses the coming and going of the three states in succession without the physical apparatus. This has to be mentally grasped and assimilated to realize the formless soul, the innermost self is nothing to do with the three states. On the standpoint of the three states, the three states are mere illusion."

This very much sounds like a mind trying to understand the incomprehensible. A Guru would send you on a 5 year retreat to wear out this mind "I" that thinks it can know.

SK:- There is no need to condemn any gurus or yogi  because the seekers only aim is to acquire nondualistic wisdom.    The Guru,disciple and the world are one in essence. The gurudom is religious concept. The religion is based on duality. the duality is mere an illusion from ultimate standpoint. Holding on to guru is holding on to duality. Holding on to duality is accepting the illusion as reality. once the reason becomes soul -centric then he will realize how the gurus teaching are inadequate and useless in pursuit of truth. 

Deeper self-search is   investigating  through a mental microscope (inquiry and soul- centric reasoning)   

Without realizing  what is the mind?,   it is  impossible to grasp Non- dualistic or Advaitic truth. Firstly one has to realize we the mind is not within the body but the body, ego  and the world are within the mind (I) . Without understanding this fact  it is no use of discussing because you are discussing on the base of ego (waking entity)  and my answers are based on the soul, the innermost self.

It takes a lot of time to train the ego to become soul- centric. Once the reasoning base is rectified from form (ego)  to formless then the truth will start revealing in its own and you will be able to  understand what I am saying.  Now in waking experience(at present)  the ego reasons ‘what  is right’  and ‘what is wrong’,, ,which is very helpful in the practical life impractical world. In  soul- centric reasoning it will start discriminating between real and unreal and truth and untruth.

Most of the modern Gurus are also stuck with ‘I’ awareness as self-awareness. The ‘I’ awareness is present only when the mind is present. Mind is present only when the universe is present. Universe is present only when the waking or dream is present.   The ‘I’ awareness is absent when the mind is absent. Mind is absent than the universe or waking or dream is absent. Thus ‘I’ awareness is mere illusion.   The self-awareness is ‘I- LESS AWARENESS.

It is impossible to get rid any conditioning without getting rid   the inborn samskara or conditioning.   ‘I’ or ‘I AM’ is the inborn samskara or conditioning. ‘I’ or ‘I AM’ is mother of all conditioning. Because of this inborn conditioning one thinks he is an individual separate from the world and world existed prior to him and he is born in it afterwards. Until this inborn conditioning is present one is in the grip of duality and he experiences the birth, life, death and the world as reality.  This inborn conditioning makes one experience the illusory duality as reality.

Man has a firm conviction that he is an individual separate from the world and world existed prior to him and he is born in in it afterwards.  This conviction makes him remain in ignorance. And ignorance makes him accept the illusion as reality.  Thus he is caught up in the web of illusion experiencing the birth, life, death and the world as reality.  

What is this universe (samsara), what is this illusion to the formless soul or consciousness, the innermost self?  Consciousness and the universe both are one in essence ultimately.   Only people who are stuck to the reality of the universe think the body as body, ego as ego and the world as world.  It never strikes in them the waking experience in which they exist along with their world also as unreal as a dream. 

 

The dream becomes unreal when waking takes place and the waking becomes unreal when waking entity gets wisdom and realizes it is not the self but the self is the formless witness (soul) of the three states.  The consciousness is within the three states as their formless substance and it is apart from the three states as their formless witness.  It is apart because it is not and entity or identity within the three states.

The person, who stamped their feet on the ground to refute to show the world, is real, ignore that in a dream he would do exactly the same--stamp his dream foot on the ground and assert it to be real. 

When wisdom dawns, the soul, the innermost self, wakes up in its formless nondual true nature in the midst of duality (waking). For a Gnani the body, ego and the universe are a mere mirage created out of consciousness.

When the universe (mind) is considered not different from the consciousness (soul), which is the innermost self, then there is the division of form, time and space.  When form, time and space are one in essence then where is the universe (mind).  

The universe (waking) is both real and unreal. It is real because it is a manifestation of consciousness, but is unreal, in the sense, that it is not absolute and eternal like consciousness itself.

People try to overcome their inherited religious conditioning but it by getting rid of the religious conditioning one will not be able to overcome the physical shackle.  One has to get rid of the inborn samskara or conditioning itself by realizing the fact that ‘I’ or ‘I AM’   is not the self.

Only by getting rid of the ignorance one can get rid of the inborn samskara or   conditioning.

v  What is the use of arguing on base of the birth entity, which is not the self?

v  What is the use of knowing what happens after death when the self is birthless? 

v  What is the use of thinking of the heaven and hell when the self is not an individual and it is never born and never dies?

But he is unaware of the fact that, he and his experience of the world are within the waking experience.  The waking experience appears and disappears, same way as the dream. When there is dream than there is no waking. When there is waking than there is no dream.  When there is neither the dream nor the waking it is identified as deep sleep in waking experience.   One is aware of the dream or deep sleep only in waking.  The one which is aware of the coming and going of the three states is neither the waking entity nor the dream entity but the formless witness of the three states. 

All the scriptures indicate that Atman is Brahman, and Brahman is ultimate truth. Therefore the soul, which is in the form of consciousness, is ultimate truth.  Thus to realize the ultimate truth is the prime goal.   A well-directed inquiry, analysis and reasoning will lead one to his nondual destination.