Adyathmic Discussions-202

SM:-

I am very much aware about advaita philoshopy. However, when the question was raised about why this world exists, I was refering to the finit world which come and goes out of existance and our finit perception of it. We cannot really perceive the infinite. We can only merge into the formless and what is left is silence. For me there is no so-called "false self" because that is in itself a dualistic thinking. There is only the Self or consciousness that is reflected everywhere. By the way in grammar there is no plural form of the word "consciousness". There is only one consciousness, there are no two consciousnesses. Therefore, for me there is only a true Self and my existence seems real because of the reality that is behind my limited existence. I am like an actress on a stage who appears real because behind my role is reality that makes me seem real. My existence depends on this Reality. But as long as I am in this existence, acting my unique role, I perceive the reality around me in my own ideosycratic way as if it were real and from that perspective it is real. But whoes reflection is it? Of course the reflection of the Reality behind my existence. So for me my perception is true as I perceive it in life although it may not be true cosmicly. It is the only way to perceive. We need duality to perceive the non-duality. Therefore, from my own temporary perspective it is true. It is true as long as I see it that way. It is of course a play of consciousness which gives me a feeling that my perception is actually real. Well that is the power of the reality governing all existance. I think we can say that the world does not exist from the perspective of the formless Absolute whoes reality is infinite. What does "formless" mean? We cannot estimate where the formless Absolute begins or ends. It is like a priceless diamond. There is no price for a priceless diamond because our limited perception cannot estimate its beginning or end price. Similarly the Absolute is formless because we cannot grasp that far. The moment we think or speak, our mind moves in a limited reality. Language margins every thought. We cannot ever express the formless through our faculties that need the form to grasp anything.

Regardless of our real or unreal nature, I personally like to see the divinity in all, because it helps me to practice ethics in life. I believe we perceive a formed reality in oder to gain awareness of a formless reality. It would not be possible otherwise.

 A:-

The Self of all makes the senses flow outward,
Therefore one seeks outside of oneself.
Only the wise, seeking the immortal amidst mortality,
Turn their gaze away from the world
And look inward – to find the Self.

- Katha Upanishad

Dear SM,

Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I admire your deep understanding  of the philosophy.       I respect your views based on individuality.

 You said :- My existence depends on this Reality. But as long as I am in this existence, acting my unique role, I perceive the reality around me in my own ideosycratic way as if it were real and from that perspective it is real. But whoes reflection is it? Of course the reflection of the Reality behind my existence. So for me my perception is true as I perceive it in life although it may not be true cosmicly.

Suppose you were holding the same view in the dream, all your experiences and views are reality within the dream. The dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. Similarly the waking becomes unreal when you become aware the fact that, the self is not an individual.  Thus whatever individual experiences experienced within the waking is as unreal as dream.

 Until one thinks body as body and world as world it is impossible to grasp nondual truth, because his views and judgments are bases on physical self with the physical existence.  The individuality is reality with the waking experience but the waking experience itself is false hood. Thus holding the view as an individual within the false experience is erroneous on the ultimate point of view.  The waking is parallel dream and dream is parallel waking experience. 

In waking the universe comes: in deep sleep   the waking goes. In waking is one born; in waking one dies.

In waking one lives, in Waking one suffers. In Waking one earns, in Waking one enjoys. In Waking is one truthful or lies like a liar. In Waking one reflects on Virtue and Sin. In Waking do one lands in Heaven and Hell. In Waking is one happy, in Waking in sorrow. In Waking does one lose the distinctions of caste and creed. In Waking is one wise; in Waking is one unwise.

In Waking one has an urge to know the truth. In Waking one is in the illusion; in Waking is one shadowed by Doubts and confusion, in waking one thinks of reincarnation and rebirth.  In waking one thinks that he is born in this world and world existed prior to him. In waking one is in ignorance of the true self, which is consciousness. If one spots out the true self within the three states, one realizes the way to freedom.

One is in action in Waking. In Waking one is bound by form, time and space. Waking is in the form of mind. Mind appears and disappears as waking or dream.  If there is no mind then there is no waking or dream. Waking or dream is born out of ignorance of the true self. Getting rid of the ignorance through wisdom is   the way to the release. In Waking or dream, one follows the Writ of habit. Waking or dream is a chronic malady; but within it also is its remedy.

The true Self is not perceptible to the senses. It is perceived by Reason. It is not perceptible as a thing with form and attributes. To those whose attention is fixed on the body and the world, it is very difficult to attain Self-knowledge. It is also very difficult for them to see the consciousness as self. The attention towards the universe [mind] should be lessened by realizing the self is not the body. The attention has to be focused on the formless substance and witness of the universe [mind] should be increased. So long as the attention is directed towards the universe, the experience of birth, life and death will prevail as reality. But when the attention is directed towards the formless substance and witness of the mind, the ignorance vanishes and the sense of reality of the duality will disappear. Then there is unity in diversity. 

  
This subject is vast and it has to be grasped only through deeper self-search.

Upanishad say:

  This Ataman cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Ataman reveals Its own form. [Katha Upanishad Ch-II -23-P-20]

Mundaka Upanishad  :-

This Ataman cannot be attained through study of the Vedas, nor through intelligence, nor through much learning. He who chooses Ataman—by him alone is Ataman attained. It is Ataman that reveals to the seeker Its true nature. [    3 –page-70 Mundaka Upanishad  Upanishads by Nikilanada]

When the Upanishads say:-

It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Ataman reveals its own form.  Then what is the use of indulging through our intelligence or our accumulated knowledge, when one is not chosen by the self, which is the soul, which is in the form of consciousness.

There is no need for any philosophy in pursuit of truth because they take the seeker nearer to truth but they create more doubts and confusions.

 

The scriptures and theories and teaching based on the ego are not the yardstick. Using them as yardstick to understand and assimilate the truth will lead one towards pursuit of arguments. Seeker of truth has to discover on his own, the truth of his true existence by inquiring “what is mind?” and “what is substance of the mind?” and move forward.  

The ultimate truth is one without the second, the one is not in the sense half or two, but the one that remain forever One, without the second.  The consciousness is all pervading. There is no place where consciousness is not.

Consciousness is in everyone, consciousness is in everything .consciousness is one behind many. Consciousness alone is. It means the universe and its contents are the visible form of consciousness. And consciousness in turn invisible form of the universe, which appears as mind .  

 Since people all are not aware of the fact that, they are an experience within another experience [waking/dream]. The mind is an experience, which contains everyone and everything and the universe. Since one limits the mind to the physical entity, he forgets the fact that, his body and the universe is an experience, within waking or dream experience. It is impossible to unfold the mystery of his true existence without realizing the fact that, the self is not physical but the self is consciousness.   If the self is not physical then it is erroneous to judge and conclude the truth on the base of the physical self or ego. Thus the truth has to be judges on the base of the true self, which is consciousness which is not an individual but it pervades all the three states as their formless substance and witness.

 Until and unless one rectifies the reasoning base from form to formless, the ultimate truth [Brahman] will not be revealed.

On the standpoint of the formless soul/consciousness

"There is nothing to accept,
Nothing to reject,
Nothing to hold on to,
Nothing to let go of,
Nothing to grasp,
Nothing to spurn,
Nothing to embrace,
Nothing to relinquish,
Nothing to dissolve.

This is the truth.

~ From Ashtavakra-Gita