The nature of all reality is spiritual. Until and unless one drops all the accumulated baggage of traditionalism it is impossible to grasp, assimilate and realize the knowledge of the self here and now.
The religion and spirituality are like oil and water. Religion is based on blind belief, whereas the spirituality is the truth which is not ascertained yet. Whatever is based on the false self (ego or waking entity) is not spirituality. Thus religious ideas are not spiritual. They cannot be mixed together. One will have to make his choice between them if he wish to progress in his pursuit of truth and not to remain stagnating.
The pursuit of Truth is the highest of aim. The ultimate truth is to be found within our experiences of three states, and not in the world, which is limited to experience, since, Authentic Gnanis to guide towards non-dual destination are extremely rare.
From the physical standpoint, that which splits the world into two co-existing realities, consciousness and mind. The ultimate standpoint annihilates the division of consciousness and mind by uniting both mentally, by realizing they are one in essence.
The look of an object will depend upon the medium through which the observer views it. In fact, our mental and intellectual conditions will determine the phenomenal universe observed and experienced.
The botanist viewing a flower will see it differently than nature lover viewing the same flower. Each one interprets the object that he sees in terms of his existing knowledge. Gnani knows his body, ego and his experience of the world as consciousness. Whereas the meditator or yogi thinks he is experiencing the bliss because of his physical effort. When the waking experience itself is false hood whatever experienced on the base of waking entity is bound to be falsehood.
A man of perfection is one who has realized the fact that, the true self is within the three states but it is without the three states. And he has a firm conviction the true self is the formless substance and witness of the three states. Thus your true identity is without the body and the universe and unaffected and witnesses the three states as passing show. Thus when you become soul centric then your egocentric experience is mere mirage. Thus one becomes fully aware in the midst of duality the waking life is mere passing show.
A Gnani is fully aware of the fact that, the substance and witness of the mirage are one in essence and that essence is consciousness. Thus there is no second thing exist other than consciousness. Thus other then consciousness all else is illusion. Experience is possible only where there are two [duality]. Thus, where there is experience(duality) unity in diversity is impossible. Therefore, only realization of truth is necessary to reach the experience- less (non-duality)state. Thus whatever experienced as a person within the waking experience [duality] is falsehood. Thus it is necessary to realize the fact that, how the three states are falsehood and on what standpoint.
The guru is necessary only in religious and yogic path. Guru is not necessary in pursuit of truth because the truth has to be ascertained by the seeker himself. Pursuit of truth is path of verification. And in every stage he has to verify the validity of his understanding by sound reasoning. As his soul-centric reasoning faculty matures the truth will start revealing on its own.
Thus it all depends on what one thinks and accepts as truth. The yogi thinks his Samadhi is Brahman. Meditator thinks his thoughtless state is Brahman. For religionist his belief of god itself is ultimate truth. For atheist his no god belief is ultimate. But for Gnani identifies his body, ego and his experience of the world as consciousness in the midst of waking experience. Thus for him everything is consciousness, becoming aware of the fact that, everything as consciousness and consciousness as ultimate reality is truth realization or self-realization.
Non-dual wisdom is bitter medicine for those imprisoned by orthodox cults. The ultimate state of consciousness, which the modern non-dualist describe, is that of the traditional sage or fully enlightened being, but they do not show the seekers the process leading to the realization of this state. They describe marvelously the goal, but do not indicate the steps to be taken: thus their preaching is not a road map to the ultimate end.
Many Seekers of truth think the ways to Truth are many. What is most important is, one should not to restrict himself to one path that he imagines that all the others are false. Thus if religionists say that one should follow one particular traditional path, and modern thinkers demands to abandon all paths, but seeker of truth should to take an independent way , after verifying validity of all claims by sound reasoning and accept only un-contradictable truth until he reaches his pathless land.
Many people think they will lose all their sense of identity to their functioning, if they do not get cling to their ego. The ego creates the feelings of separation, pain, and alienation as well. But all these feelings are within the universe and the formless witness is without the universe.
When one becomes aware of the fact that, self is consciousness through wisdom, then he also becomes aware of the fact that, the body, ego, senses and the universe which are present in the waking experience or dream are also consciousness. And he becomes fully aware of the fact that, the formless true self( soul or consciousness), which is the witness of the three states, is apart, real and eternal. Thus he becomes aware of the ultimate truth (pure consciousness) in the midst of the duality (waking). Realizing the truth in the midst of duality (waking/illusion)is wisdom.
One does not lose the physical experience (universe or mind) but he will be fully aware of the fact that, the three states are mere mirage created out of consciousness. By realizing the fact that, the self is not physical but self is consciousness, the mind becomes still to know that consciousness alone is real, and the mind (universe) in which the whole humanity exits is mere mirage created out of consciousness.
There is a need to drop all the pre-conceived ideas and accumulated dross and try to verify a fresh to understand and assimilate the non-dual truth. One should not make any teaching as a yardstick but one should verify all the facts by sound reasoning and overcome all the obstacles by realizing what is truth and what is untruth.
If one becomes aware consciousness is the true self, then all his judgment has to be based on consciousness (formless) as self, not on the ego or physical self (form). Then only it is possible to understand and assimilate the non-dual truth. Since, everyone is judging the truth on the physical self (form or ego) which leads to doubts and confusion and one will land up in pursuit of argument.
People think that, the birth entity (ego) as true self and the world as reality. And their judgement is based on the birth entity (ego). Therefore, they think human and world are real. Thus they think the self is born, lives and dies, whereas the self is never born and it can never die because it is formless.
Thus arguing on the base of the ego (form) is waste of time and makes one more egocentric. Thus there is a need to learn to view and judge the worldview on the base of consciousness as self, to overcome all the obstacles to reach the ultimate truth or pathless land, to realize the fact that, human and world are mere mirage created out of consciousness.
Tags : self-knowledge Edit | Delete
Y V Chawla
Apr 12, 2011 at 01:47 pm
Realisation is not a result. Words become a barrier, a comfort zone in seeing the Truth. Truth is 'what is' - whether we like it or not from moment to moment. It is 'live' and not a done thing.
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The self exist without 'I' or 'I AM'. because the self is the formless witness of the 'I' or 'I AM'.when the self is identified with words the illusion will prevail as reality. until we recognize the self with the words it is impossible to cross the trashold of duality. to cross the egoic emotions and feelings one has to stop identifying the self with words, than only it is possible mentally enter the non-dual kingdom of heaven where one sees nothing other than consciousness in the midst diversity[waking]. when the seeker starts identifying the self without the words the truth starts reveling and the illusion start dissolving and than there is only self-awareness.
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If you have laptop in the dream, the dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. The waking experience becomes unreal when wisdom dawns and the self wakes up in its formless non-dual true nature. The dream entity and the dream world were reality within the dream.Likewise the waking entity and the waking world are reality until one becomes aware of the fact that, the self is neither waking entity nor it is the dream entity but the formless witness[knower] of the three states, which comes and goes in succession. Until one becomes aware of the fact that the self is not physical but formless consciousness the universe will be experienced as reality. On the standpoint of the formless soul[consciousness as true self, the three states are mere mirage created out of consciousness.
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One think I can understand is self is not physical, that is OK, but world is not real, that is not OK, it is real world to me/ or kindly guide how to be aware that it is illusion.(why consciousness is creating mirage)
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Dear Sureshji,
Thank you for your response. I request you to read my blogs :- http://sunthosh-formlesspath.blogspot.com There are more than thousund blogs on this subject. And follow me on Face book since the feed back facility is collapesed in speaking tree. I do not sure when it is going to be rectified. The formless Soul is true self is always tranquil and pure consciousness and beyond objective world. Without verification of the fact, through inquiry analysis and reasoning, one gets duped by illusion and experiences it as reality. The ego [I] is identified as self and it is the cause of the ignorance. And ignorance is the cause of experiencing the duality as reality. One has to become aware of the fact that, the ego, body, world are within the mind and mind appearsas waking or dream [duality] and disappear as deep sleep [non-duality]. The three states are impermanent. That which is aware of the coming and going of the three states is formless, permanent and apart. As the soul [consciousness] as self and knower alone revels the mind, which contains the body and the universe. The mind is of consciousness; the whole waking experience is mental because it within the mind and it is mind alone. If the mind is confined to the body it becomes ego. One has to understand the fact that mind, is not within the body; but the body and the universe are within the mind. This is very important point. Without understanding this fact, one will not be able understand and realize, the mind which come and goes as waking or dream as mere illusion. By considering the ego as self,one is duped by illusion and experiences it as reality. One cannot have the idea of reality without having the idea of unreality. Both rise and fall together. Therefore the soul is neither real nor unreal, because it is beyond duality; where there is no second thing to say it is real and unreal. Hence it is non- dual. What is it makes the body and the world exist for everyone? It is awareness. The mind is objective awareness. The soul is subjective awareness. When the entire object disappears then the subject alone will prevail as objectless awareness or objectless consciousness. The objectless consciousness is the nature of the soul. Thus limiting the conciseness to the physical body alone is the cause of ignorance, whereas the consciousness pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states. Scientific inventions say: Why You Are Not Your Brain, and Other Lessons from the Biology of Consciousness by :AlvaNoĆ«. Hill and Wang, 2009 Alva No, a University of California, Berkeley, philosopher and cognitive scientist, argues that after decades of concerted effort on the part of neuroscientists, psychologists and philosophers "only one proposition about how the brain makes us conscious ... has emerged unchallenged: we don't have a clue." The reason we have been unable to explain the neural basis of consciousness, he says, is that it does not take place in the brain. Consciousness is not something that happens inside us but something we achieve it is more like dancing than it is like the digestive process. To understand consciousness the fact that we think and feel and that a world shows up for us we need to look at a larger system of which the brain is only one element. Consciousness requires the joint operation of brain, body and world. "You are not your brain. The brain, rather, is part of what you are." If the brain [body] is not the self then what is self? Therefore, there is a need to understand and assimilate the knowledgeof the self through deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning in order to unfold the mystery of the ‘I’. One cannot know the truth until one knows the stuff from which the mind is created. The goal of pursuit of truth is to realize the fact that, thetrue self is not physical but it is the formless soul/ spirit/consciousness. When one puts aside the imagination and has the thinker-- what does he get with thinking—he can get only a thoughts. Meditation is only an effort; it is imagination, an idea; the soul/consciousness remaining the same with or without ideas. As a person perceiving the world one is unaware of the fact that, he and his experience of the world are within the object. He as a person is completely unaware of the fact that, he is not the subject at all. The subject is formless and it is apart from the three states. The subject is not an entity or identity within the three states. Therefore, judging the truth on the base of the object as self is erroneous. Such judgement leads to all sorts of speculation, doubts and confusions. When one is absorbed in thinking of anything, he is thinking within the object [mind] that which witnesses all these three states is within but always apart. As a thinker he gets only thoughts. The thinker and thoughts are part of the illusion. Whenever there is thoughts and experiences, there is duality [mind]. Where there is duality [mind] there is always ignorance. Where there is ignorance there is illusion. The duality, mind and ignorance illusion are one and the same thing and they appear together and disappear. The ignorance vanishes when the wisdom dawns. The knower of the three states is within the three states but it is formless and apart from the three states. The whole universe and people and all its contents are within the mind. The truth is hidden within the mind but it is without the mind. As a Man one thinks the mind is within the physical body but the truth is the body and the universe are within the mind. Until this mistake is rectified to get the non -dual truth is impossibility. Man thinks he is an individual separate from the world within the mind which appears as waking or dream and disappears as deep sleep. Therefore, one has to analyze the three states in order to realize the witness of the three states is formless and apart from the three states. Thus the man is not the witness of the three states. Realizing this fact, it is erroneous to judge the truth on the waking entity. It is impossible to trace the mind within the physical body, because the physical body and the world are within the mind. The idea of multiplicity of mind cannot be accepted. The dream appears as a whole with the dream entity, with people and dream world. The dream is witnessed as whole without the physical apparatus. The same witness witnesses the waking and deep sleep as a whole. This truth has to be grasped to realize the fact that, the waking entity is not the witness of the three states. Only when this truth is grasped, then it becomes easier to assimilate the Self-Knowledge. Therefore, how the meditation or Samadhi or any other practice can yield the fruit, when the waking entity is not the self and the true self is the witness of the three states, not waking experience alone. This truth has to be grasped to rectify the mistake, which keeps one in the grip of duality makes him experience the duality as reality. Only when become aware of the fact that, the waking entity is not the self, it becomes easier to understand the illusion. The form, time and space are within the mind. The knower of the form, time and space, is formless, timeless and space less existence. Therefore, when the meditator comes out of meditation, he again confronts the form, time and space. But for a Gnani without meditation, he is aware of the fact that, the form, time and space as consciousness and he is conscious of consciousness within the realm of form, time and space. All the actions and moments are happening within the mind. In the realm of truth there is neither action nor the moment. When the mind itself is illusion on the standpoint of its formless substance, [consciousness], then all the contents of the mind is bound to be illusion. |
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Sir,
You said ;-The knower of the three states is within the three states but it is formless and apart from the three states. IT is not physical. OK. Now you say physical body & universe are in mind only( they do not exist at all), The truth is hidden within the mind but it is without the mind, OK. self is not physical , OK. But world is not real( it is illusion of mind only) is not understandable to me.I am not saying what is what. It is not understandable to me. OK let me an example , I go to gym , I do exercise of a particular muscle, It increases in size, is it illusion. A doctor gives medicine to a pt , medicine works , Is it illusion . Another think during deep sleep one is not aware of body, one can say self is not aware of it.On the reverse I can say that because of our ignorance we are saying world as illusion.Consciousness with maya created world.but do not think maya equivalent to illusion.You say with meditation one can know truth for a short time. OK if one can not understand permanently, atleast for short time we can know it through meditation.If I say world as illusion , then this concept of illusion may also be a illusion. OK I keep my mind open . I will study in detail at your web & facebook also. Lets then interact. I have kept every possibility open . |
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Man and his experience of the world cannot exist without waking experience. Whatever we are discussing, we are discussing within the waking experience. One has to know: whether physical body and the world are within the mind or the mind is within the physical body? The mind, physical body, ego and the world are present only, when the whole experience of the waking or dream is present. And mind is absent, when the waking/dream experience is absent. Thus one has to conclude the mind as the whole waking/dream experience. Thus the mind ,which is in the form of universe appears and disappears as waking/dream experience. All your arguments are truth only on the base of the ego, which is the false self, within the false experience [waking]. The individual experiences within the waking are as real as dream.
Please think: suppose the same subject, if we are discussing in the dream and you asked me the same questions in the dream, then whatever you said in dream becomes unreal, when the waking takes place. Whatever one saying now, he is saying within the waking experience. The waking is unreal on the base of the formless witness, which is soul, which is is in the form consciousness. How does one see various objects, scenes and persons during dreams? If the dream is experienced without the physical body, then what is it that experiences the dream? Therefore, there must be an formless witness/knower of the dream world. This formless witness/knower is the same witness that is witnesses this Waking experience also as a whole. Therefore the Waking experience and dream both are experienced by one and only formless witness of which the seeker is not aware of. Since he considers the physical body [I] is the self and views and judges the worldview on the standpoint of false self , within the false experience. The formless witness can exist with or without the waking/dream.[ But waking /dream cease to exist, without the formless witness. The gross Waking experience is merged into the mental experience in the sense that, when it is analyzed, it is found to exist inseparably in and as the mind alone. All "spiritual" planes are really mental: those who regard them as different or higher are deceiving themselves. The dream becomes unreal when the waking takes place; similarly the waking becomes unreal when the wisdom dawns. Therefore everything has to be grasped mentally, not argued on the intellectual point of view, which is limited to the false physical entity within the false experience. The unreal is created out of real, and when one views and judges on the standpoint unreal [ego] then there is duality. When one is able to view and judge on the standpoint of the true self then there is only non -duality. Therefore, when the wisdom dawns then there is neither duality, nor non duality, only reality. All theses confusion will go on, until man thinks, he is an individual and apart from the world, and the world existed prior to him and he is born in it afterwards. Therefore, it is necessary to know the fact the true self is not ego, but the true self is the soul, and stop viewing and judging the worldview on the standpoint of the physical self [ego], And he has to view and judge on the worldlier on base true self ,which is consciousness, to realize the fact that, the world along with man is illusion. The formless substance of the illusion is consciousness. Thus consciousness is Brahman/ultimate reality. Thus no second thing exists on the standpoint of consciousness as self. |
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Stability within the parametres of mind is the illusion. Seeking a stable point through thinking is the illusion.
Seeing this clearly, connects one to the 'whole'. |
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The mind itself is illusion. The mind is in the form of universe. The universe appears as waking or dream. because everyone thinks that, the mind is within the brain is cause of ignorance. if mind is there the universe is there. The universe is present only in waking experience. Absent of mind is absent of the universe or waking experience. The person and the his experience of the world are within the mind, how can one see it clearly when the duality is mere illusion created out of consciousness without realizing the fact that, the self is neither the waking entity nor the dream entity, but self is the formless witness of the three states. Thus it is necessary to know the existence of the formless witness of the three states in order get self awareness in the midst of duality. One has to learn to judge and reason on the base of formless self in order to understand ,assimilate and realize the non-dual truth.
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As this talk itself is from the mind, it itself is illusion-hence it will become absurd. We will land no where. Talk about formless self is also from the mind, hence illusion.
Truth is 'what is' from moment to moment. To bind it as real or illusion is a mind game. Life is endless movement as friction between known and unknown(you may call it formless). This discussion gets lengthy because we do not get hold(start from) of the fundamental issue. I want unhindered freedom to operate, to get everything as I want. If I get everything- the need for inquiry will NEVER arise. My freedom is restricted by pain and uncertainty, hence inquiry. |
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Sir
But to say to say physical body & universe are in mind only , they do not exist at all , is not understandable. |
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Like an ornament made from gold is Gold, that which is born out of consciousness is consciousness. Like gold is the permanent thing, in ornaments made of gold, similarly, the mind, which is in the form of the universe is born out of consciousness, is consciousness in its essence.
People see God is different from them;they fear him similar to a tiger fearing its own shadow in the well. The ignorant thinks the birth, life, death and the universe as reality because he is unaware of the fact that the universe is reality within the waking experience but the waking experience is mere illusion from the ultimate standpoint. Since people have the inherited conditioning of believing the birth, life, death and the world as reality they are unaware of the fact that their human experience within the universe is mere mirage created out of consciousness. The ignorance of the true self makes them to accept the false theories based on the false self and people accept whatever theory suits their mind set and keep manipulating their false life within the false experience. Some are intoxicated with theory of karma; some are with the theory of cause and effect, some with love alone, some with humanism, some with service, and some with rituals, worship, some with glorifying and surrendering to the guru, some with their logical and intellectual conclusions, some with their orthodoxy and some with their Yogic Samadhi. But all these are biggest hindrance not qualification to acquire nondual wisdom. It is waste of time to convince these people because they have already have accepted something else as truth. Thus they will not have any urge to know the ultimate truth. Therefore, it is no use discussing with such crowd and it is better avoid such mind sets if one seriously seeking truth. There is no use criticizing any belief system or teacher or guru. But one has to highlight how they cause hindrance and becomes obstacle in pursuit of truth. People who think they are rebelled against belief system are mere intellectual speculators. They are not serious about seeking truth. They are more interested in time pass with their intellectual acrobatics with the information collected from whatever they have read and heard. Such accumulated knowledge is not the means in pursuit of truth. Thus discussing with such mind set will neither help the seeker of truth or those who think intellectuality and logical conclusion as the means for Self–Realization. Due to ignorance created because of illusion the duality appears to be real. And within the illusion one is conditioned to think that, he is an individual separate from the universe and universe existed prior to him and he is born in it. This inherited conditioning of the birth conviction is very dominant in waking experience. Until this conviction is there it is impossible to assimilate self-knowledge. When one realizes all the three states to be consciousness, then no second thing exist other than consciousness. In that state of oneness, everything is identified,as consciousness and when this is done, there is no desire, no sorrow and no duality because they are part of the illusion. The ultimate truth is in the form of consciousness and it is consciousness which is the true self. The dream experiences are true within the dream and when one does not have enlightenment, the waking experience appears to be true. Though we seem to experience the world,for all practical purposes of perception, but its reality is limited to the waking experience because the waking experience itself is an illusion when wisdom dawns, same way as the dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. The dream becomes unreal on waking,and waking does not exist in a dream,and waking and dream are absent in a deep sleep. For those ignorant who believe the birth, life, death and the world as reality, think that, the effect of action done in previous births,as Prarabdha in this birth, but for the realized one the present birth, life, death and the universe itself is mere illusion because they have realized the fact that, waking experience itself is mere illusion created out of consciousness. |
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@ Y V Chawla
Sir But to say to say physical body & universe are in mind only , they do not exist at all , is not understandable. |
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They exist with reference to you. You and the outer is a singular process. Can you see this fact? Seeing this is important and not the words.
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@ Y V Chawla
.........................Sir But to say to say physical body & universe are in mind only , they do not exist at all , is not understandable. |
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Where is the body, where is mind, where is the world; the void; or despair in the true self, which the taintless soul or consciousness. They are or have becomes consciousness.
One thinks there is mind when he has thoughts, but when thoughts are not considered different from the consciousness, which is the true self, then where is the division into, waking, dream and deep sleep etc. Void implies to duality: the universe may not exist but the thought of the second is there. If one knows there is Void [emptiness/nothingness], then there is something there to be known and know. They are or have become consciousness. What are scriptures, what is self-knowledge, what is mind without the objects, what is contentment, and where is desirelessness for theformless soul/true self, which is ever devoid of sense of duality. What is knowledge? What is ignorance? What is the ego? What is duality? What is mind? What is bondage? What is liberation? What is definableness to the formless self/soul, which is in the form of consciousness? All theses appearances are mere mirage, which come and go; hence meaningless to the formless soul/true self. The ego based knowledge is not ultimate knowledge because ego based knowledge is dualistic knowledge based on the object [body] as subject. But in non-dualistic Knowledge whatever seems to exist also is consciousness; therefore there is no scope for the existence of the second thing. What is past karmas? What is liberation –in this life? and what is that liberation at death?for the birth- less soul,which is ever formless. Nearest state to understand the soul by itself is to eliminate mentally waking and dream as in deep sleep. Once this is grasped one has to understand everything is consciousness, which is the true self. What is the doer or the enjoyer? What is cessation of thoughts or rising of thoughts? What is immediate perception and its result to, the formless soul, which is ever impersonal. A Gnani is the one who is never afraid of thinkng and knowing all his individual experience and the world to be consciousness. What is the world and what is meant by the aspirant for liberation; what is contemplative and what is man of knowledge; what the self is and what liberated self to the formless soul, which is the non-dual essence. When we analyze the dream experience we find the dream entity, dream world with all people in it appeared as a whole, and the dream reality lasted until waking experience appeared. When one tries to know the truth of his true existence in waking through inquiry, analysis and reasoning, one becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless soul, which is in the form of consciousness which is the essence of the three states from which the three states are made. Thus the illusions of the three states are made of one single substance, which is consciousness. By realizing the formless substance, which is consciousness as self, the ignorance vanishes and one become aware of the fact that the three states are mere illusion on the standpoint of the formless substance ,which is also the witness of the three states. When knows the soul as the true self: What are projection and retraction, what are end and means; what are failure and success to the formless soul, which is formless and nondual in its nature. The mirage appears and merges back into its essence is not an appearance at all. What is the knower, the means of knowledge, the object of knowledge; what is anything or nothing to the soul which is ever formless. Knower, knowledge, object, thing, nothing or any word one may utter is after all they are the words and words have meaning only within the mirage. The consciousness is ever present in all the three states but as a person, one is unconscious of the consciousness because he thinks the body as his self. When all knowing, known and knower are simultaneously mental as in dream what else is there to trouble about understanding them. Because of considering the waking experience as reality one is incapable of understanding and assimilating the nondual truth. What is the distraction?What is the concentration, dullness ad delusion, happiness and sorrow to the formless soul, which is ever actionless. As a person one may be drawn to observe his body and the world, but the Gnani is not disturbed by because they all are consciousness to him. The physical attributes are nothing to do with the soul/self wrongly; all the attributes belong to the ego not the soul. Identifying the physical attribute to the soul is the cause of the ignorance. What is relative? What is absolute happiness and misery to the formless soul, which is ever devoid of thought and activity? If anything has a meaning it is only in duality. Happiness and sorrow are the nature of duality, which is mind, there differences therefore illusory on the standpoint of theformless soul, which is ultimate reality. What is illusion? What is ignorance? What are birth, life and death? What is world? What is attachment and what is detachment to the soul/self, which is ever formless. The mind and soul are one in essence ultimately. All argument about consciousness never touches it. The soul is not the ego in this particular body but principle which holds the whole physical existence [universe], which contains everyone and everything known and unknown. All words have no place and thoughts cannot reach. Even the thought of the soul or consciousness is just illusory and contradictory, because the thought and words belong to the world of duality. What is activity or inactivity, liberation and bondage to the formless soul/self, which is ever immutable and indivisible. There is no division into nations, races and colours of kinds of men in wisdom. It is not enough to but one must always see the formless soul [consciousness] as self and the witness the witness of all the three states and always realize and practice it. Some people get glimpses of truth and lose it; so it must be established. Such fixidity is the goal. What is instruction and scriptural injunction? What is disciple and guru? What indeed is object of life for the formless soul, which is absolute and free from limitation? Life is with world. World is within the waking or dream, the illusory limitation. When there is no second other than consciousness, then what is there for the soul /self to attain? But when one thinks the self is physical, then there is various things he will want to get and so be trouble by their lack. Hence don’t wrongly imagine the self to be the body. What is existence, non existence, unity or duality? What need us there to say more? Noting from the soul because whatever seems to emanate from it, is non-different from itself. There is no second thing other then the soul, which is in the form of consciousness. One should not mistake self [soul] for the ego. Those who assert world is reality, are still in elementary stages of preliminary analysis. The world is reality within the waking experience but the waking experience is mere illusion. The same way the dream world was reality within the dream experience. The dream became unreal when waking took place same way waking becomes unreal when non-dual wisdom dawns. |
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But what is need of illusion ?why all this.
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This question arises only in ignorance, because seekers judgement is based on the waking entity or ego. From ultimate standpoint the universe including our body is illusion. From the physical point of view the universe including us is reality. It takes umpteen time to understand this, because we are conditioned to view,judge and reason, on physical base, or ego. Therefore, there is a need to mentally rectify the reasoning base from form to formless base in order to know 'what is truth' and 'what is illusion'. Without knowing what is reality it is impossible to accept anything as illusion. Therefore it is necessary to first decide whether the 'self is form' or 'self' is formless. If 'self' is form then the universe will prevail as reality. If the self is formless then the universe has to be accepted as illusion. It takes a very long time to rectify the reasoning base from to formless thus it takes time to understand and assimilate and realize the self-knowledge.
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OK from physical stand point of view the universe is reality. Now sir what is ultimate standpoint. you say for ultimate stand point of view universe is illusion. What is need of this illusion /what is purpose of this illusion. I can not understand this, Will meditation help/what type of meditation. Can not be it let world be real from a physical point of view & accept the things as they come. One more question , after death shall we come to know it. or will remain as dream only.
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When one is searching for truth he is not aware of the fact that, he is searching for the truth within the false experience with his the false identity. There is no I, me or you or us, no seeker, no enlightenment, no disciple and no guru, no teaching, when one becomes aware of the fact that, the true self is not ‘I’ but the formless soul, which is in the form of consciousness.
From ultimate standpoint:- there is no birth, life and death, no purpose of life, and nothing that has to be achieved when one realizes and becomes aware of the fact that, his physical identity and his experience of the world are mere illusion. All that appeared as three states or illusion is mere mirage created out of consciousness. Soul is the true self and also it is the source of the mind from where it rises and subsides as waking or dream . All that apparently manifests in the illusion creates ignorance.And ignorance creates separation. This separation is the cause of duality, which cause division within the consciousness. Man and his world, his belief of god, the search for truth is part of the illusion. The ignorance makes one appearing as two. Absent of ignorance absent of duality. Whatever prevails without duality is non-dual reality. All past, present and future are reality in ignorance. Absent of ignorance absent of diversity/illusion. The wisdom brings unity in diversity. Destiny is part of the illusion, because birth, life and death itself is illusion. All the happenings are part of the illusion. Seeker has to discover the source of the illusion. The source is the soul or consciousness which is uncaused, unchanging, formless and non-dual. The nature of true self is oneness is incomprehensible and so any communication about it can only be an interpretation of the ideas based on the false self/ego. Ignorance generates doubts and confusion. Ignorance makes one experience the duality as reality. Ignorance makes one view and judge on the standpoint of false physical self/ego. Whatever is based on false physical self/ego is bound to be falsehood because everything is viewed and judged believing the duality as reality. Thus, one is unable to think beyond duality. Deeper understanding and assimilation is required for self-realization. It becomes difficult to understand and communicate about the oneness on the base of false self. Thus rectifying the true base is necessary from form base to formless base to understand and assimilate and realize the non-duality. Ego is well established as the subject of perception whereas the body is the object within the “mind” which appears as waking or dream. This is learnt from the fact that when one speaks of his body within the universe. Man and the world exist within the waking or dream.” Thus the man cannot be the self, because the self, pervades everywhere and in everything in all the three states. It is a fact of direct experience that the “self”, which is in the form consciousness, is without any change, whereas the waking or dream is always undergoing changes. Thus the physical entity, which is within the waking or dream, cannot be the self. The true self is that witnesses all the changes but it itself is changeless. Seeker of truth has to ascertain the real nature of the true self through deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the true base then only they become fully aware of the fact that, “There is nothing higher than consciousness. Thus consciousness is ultimate truth or Brahman. All the three states are verily the consciousness. Thus this waking entity cannot be the self, because the waking entity is limited to the waking experience, whereas the consciousness pervades all the three states. Consciousness is completely unattached” from the universe, because it is not an entity or identity within the universe. Universe is mere mirage created out of consciousness. All the forms and names within the mirage have no value from the ultimate standpoint. Thus the division created by the forms and names are within the illusion. Absent of division there is unity in diversity. Consciousness is within the universe but it is without the universe. It is within the universe as its formless substance and witness. |
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To actually see the magic, the wonder of reality, the automation of the whole scheme -one has to leave the words. One has to absorb all that one does not like. A touch of the mystery washes away all the words. One is spell bound in awe. One lands in the wonder land, where there is only one word wah!, wah! (ą¤µाą¤¹!, ą¤µाą¤¹!).
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Yes, everything is spiritual, everything is divine. Religion is fixed as it is what was said at an altogether different time and place that is freezed as religion. Some things may still apply, but many wont as change is constant. Relgion, as such is fixed, rigid and has no scope for growing or learning or wondering. All the answers are given.
But spirituality is our individual journey within, homeward bound, to our own selves. It means not knowing, wondering, exploring. So it is ever alive, flowing, dancing., moving. You have said the true self is the formless substance and witness of the three states". The origin of all known is from the unknown, so all forms is from the formless as the form is what we know. The formless, unknown is what breathes in us, when we go to sleep for we do not put efforts to breathe, but it goes on. This is what digests the food, does so many functions which we do not know. When life stops, this is that which is no more in the body. |
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Friends,
much in religion is not spiritual, but core remains spiritual. any misconcpetion on this may send u down the wrong path. a wrong path in this case may mean a lifetime wasted, so before concluding, take a pause ! |
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The illusion can be understood only when the mind learns to view and judge the worldview, on the true base. The orthodox nonduality has no truth.
Vedic religion was modified and reintroduced with new add-ons by Sri, Sankara a great Advith Master to uplift the Vedic culture and SantanaDharma , which were in ruins in the clutches of Buddhism. 18 puranas are introduced in the name of Veda Vyasa. As one goes deeper in the annals of the history, it indicates the fact that somewhere someone has added the puranas in the name of VedaVyasa the grand master of Vedas. It is impossible to accept and believe that Veda Vyasa authored and introduced puranas which has all conceptual gods because:- In Vedas the God has been described as:- Sakshi (Witness) Chetan (conscious) Nirguna (Without form and properties). Nitya (eternal) Shuddha (pure) Buddha (omniscient) Mukta (unattached). It indicates clearly all the gods with form and attributes are mere imagination based on the false self. And also inYajurved says: Translation 1. They enter darkness, those who worship natural things (for example air, water, sun, moon, animals, fire, stone, etc). They sink deeper in darkness those who worship sambhuti. (Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol etc.) [Yajurved 40:9] Translation 2. "Deep into shade of blinding gloom fall asambhuti's worshippers. They sink to darkness deeper yet who on sambhutiare intent." [YajurvedaSamhita by Ralph T. H. Giffithpg 538] Translation 3. "They are enveloped in darkness, in other words, are steeped in ignorance and sunk in the greatest depths of misery who worship the uncreated, eternal prakrti -- the material cause of the world -- in place of the All-pervading God, But those who worship visible things born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time." [Yajur Veda 40:9.] So, Yajur Veda indicates that:- They sink deeper in darkness those who worship sambhuti. (Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol etc[Yajurved 40:9] Those who worship visible things born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time." [Yajur Veda 40:9.] When the religion of the Veda knows no idols then why so many gods and goddesses with different form and name are being propagated as Vedic gods. Why these conceptual gods are introduced when Vedic concept of god is free from form and attributes. Who introduced concept of god with attributes and attributeless gods, when Yajur Veda says: - those who worship visible things, born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like), in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness. Therefore, all these add-ons proves that the form and attribute based concepts are introduced by some sages of the past with new belief system and code of conducts in the name of Vedas. Sruti is made the final or exclusive authority in aparaVidya and that for supporting the tenet of the CAUSAL relation or creatorship of Brahman, Nirguna Brahman = the "Absolute beyond qualities," which can be defined only in a negative way. For the Shankarian school = the Ultimate Reality, higher than the Lord. i.e. of Saguna or apara Brahman ... The support of Scriptural Revelation is, therefore, absolutely necessary for this hypothesis of cosmology, this Saguna or apara (= inferior) Brahman, but not for the absolute truth of Nirguna Brahman. The Sruti itself says: "This Atma is NOT to be attained by a study of the Vedas. [Katha Upanishad I, 2, 23.] Therefore, all the add-ons and attribute based knowledge, which are inferior, have to be bifurcated and excluded to know the ultimate truth. The seeker of truth has to drop all the inferior knowledge based on the attributes and go beyond Vedas to understand assimilate and realize the ultimate truth or Brahman. One has to go beyond Vedas means go beyond religion. Go beyond religion means, go beyond concept of god. Thus, going beyond Veda, religion and conceptual god means going beyond illusion. That is end of Vedas [ Veda –antha] Gaudapada says that:-The merciful Veda teaches karma and Upaasana to people of lower and middling intellect, while Jnana is taught to those of higher intellect. This clearly indicates that religion, which is based on individual conduct, prescribes karma and Upaasana to people of lower and middling intellect, therefore religion is for the lower intellect. And wisdom is for those are capable of inquiring into their own existence to know and realize the ultimate truth, which is Brahman. Brahman is considered the all-pervading consciousness, which is the basis of all the animate and inanimate entities and material. (brahmano hi pratisthaham, Bhagavad Gita 14.27) Sri, Sankara’s notion of Maya, the cosmic illusion, which must be transcended in order to realize the truth of Brahman, which means ultimate truth. If Brahman is considered the all-pervading consciousness then, it is necessary to realize, the consciousness as self, which pervades all the three states, to realize the fact that, there is no second thing exists other the consciousness. Thus, consciousness [Ataman] is ultimate truth [Brahman]. As indicated in ISH Upanishads: -By worshipping gods and goddesses you will go after death to the world of gods and goddesses. But will that help you? The time you spend there is wasted, because if you were not there you could have spent that time moving forward towards Self-knowledge, which is your goal. In the world of gods and goddesses you cannot do that, and thus you go deeper and deeper into darkness. It clearly indicates that:-If the human goal is to acquire Self-Knowledge then why one has to indulge in rituals and glorifying the conceptual gods, goddesses and gurus to go in to deeper darkness. Instead spend that time moving forward towards Self-knowledge, which is one’s prime goal. Since it is eternal and infinite, it comprises the only truth. The goal of Vedic religion, through the various yogas, is to realize that the consciousness (Atman) is actually nothing but Brahman. The Vedic pantheon of gods is said, in the Vedas and Upanishads, to be only higher manifestations of Brahman. For this reason, "ekam sat" (all is one), and all is Brahman. Thus, the goal is to realize Ataman [consciousness]. If Atman [consciousness] is nothing but Brahman and by realizing Ataman [consciousness] as Brahman [ultimate truth] is truth realization or Self-Realization , then there is no need to follow religion, study scriptures or glorifying gods or gurus and follow the path of doubts and confusion by losing oneself in the labyrinths of philosophy, when there is an easier path. By mentally tracing the source of the mind from where it rises and subsides one becomes aware of the fallacy of the mind, which rises as waking or dream and subsides as deep sleep. The mind raises form consciousness and subsides as consciousness. They alone in this world are endowed with the highest wisdom who are firm in their conviction of the sameness and birthlessness of Ataman. The ordinary man does not understand their way. [Chapter IV — AlatasantiPrakarana 95-P-188 in Upanishads by Nikilanada] Therefore, if one is seeking truth he has to know his true self is not physical but it is the Ataman, which is in the form of consciousness. Self-knowledge cannot be attained by study of the Vedas and intellectual understanding or by bookish knowledge. Therefore there is no use of studying the Vedas and other scriptures in order to acquire the non-dual wisdom. That is why Buddha rejected the scriptures, and even Sri, Sankara indicated that, the ultimate truth lies beyond religion, concept of god and scriptures. There is only one Reality to be known, the same for all seekers, but the ways to it, are hidden by the religion. Self-discovery is the only way,towards non-dual Absolute without any religious doctrines,which will help the seekers to unfold the mystery of the illusion in which we all are searching the truth of our true existence. The beliefs of god, religion, yoga are based on the false self, is nothing to do with the mental [inner] journey. The religious, rituals, worships, prayers god and guru glorification may be useful in the worldly life, for those who believes in the birth, life, death and the world as reality, but they are not useful tools in realizing the ultimate truth. On the base of consciousness [soul] as self, everything other than the consciousness is mere mirage. Thus, man and his experience of the world and his belief of god and religion are part and parcel of the mirage created out of consciousness. |
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Wow ! that was painstaking, thanks.
one falsehood to tackle another falsehood ?? till one falsehood appear true we need another one to remove the first one ?? those who unedrstand teh falsehod become great bhaktas be it shankra or ramkrishna or meera, when it is false why be religious !! a one on one some day may help, me. |
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'There is a need to drop all the pre-conceived ideas and accumulated dross and try to verify a fresh to understand and assimilate the non-dual truth. One should not make any teaching as a yardstick but one should verify all the facts by sound reasoning and overcome all the obstacles by realizing what is truth and what is untruth.''
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Knowing consciousness as self, mind becomes known. Knowing consciousness as self nothing else remains to be known. Knowing consciousness as self one attains to immortality that is the beginningless ultimate reality.
A Gnani is fully aware, and sees the consciousness in all beings and in everything, existing equally and deathless in the living and the dying. Consciousness is present within all the three states but without the three states. Consciousness is present in all the moving and unmoving, incomprehensible, far and near, impartible, sustaining everything in the waking and dream experiences. Until one recognizes the source of the mind, one is bound to believe his birth entity as real self and his experience of universe as reality. This body one is so proud of is not the self. The body and universe exist within the mind. Therefore there is a need to know the source of the mind. The body and the world are within the waking experience. And the waking experience also will permanently vanish same way as dream, which is called death. One has to know that the body and the world are within the mind. And mind is made of consciousness. Thinking the body is made of five elements one becomes ignorant of the consciousness. By becoming ignorant of consciousness one is conditioned to believe the birth, life and death as reality. By believing the birth, life and death as reality one has strong conviction that the universe in which he is born is real, thus he experiences the illusion as reality. And all his reasoning and judgement is based on physical self, which is the false self within the false experience. Mind merges into the source, from where it is originated. Therefore there is a need to mentally trace the source in order to discover the ultimate truth. The true self is consciousness and consciousness is devoid of attributes yet it existing as if divided in beings, sustaining beings, devouring as well as generating beings within the illusion. The consciousness is the light of all lights, beyond all darkness, the goal of knowledge, dwelling and pervading everything and everywhere in all the three states as their formless substance and witness. Consciousness is the One to be known as ultimate truth. These three states are temporary - they will pass away. One should not be so proud, looking at his beautiful body and the beauty of the universe, which are within the waking experience. When the time ceases the waking ceases, like the snake shedding its skin, the consciousness sheds the three states. The mind is like perishable. Like frail and perishable; the paper is limited. When the drop of water falls upon it, the paper crumbles and dissolves instantaneously same way the reality of the mind which appears as waking or dream and disappears as deep sleep dissolves when their unreal nature is exposed through wisdom. Even though the self is something other than this material body, the majority of people still identify themselves with it. Why? The main reason people identify the physical body as self, is because of the ignorance of the Real Self, which is consciousness. Whosoever identifies his-self with this bundle of bones and flesh is ignorant. Now the question arises: If self is not this body, then what is self? If body with the name is not self then what is one’s true Identity which is without the body and name? Self is the consciousness and consciousness is ultimate truth. One has to recognize the consciousness as the true self in order to know the three states are unreal. The three states are temporary, while the true self ,which is consciousness , is the formless substance and witness of the three states real and Immortal Therefore, this mind is false and impermanent, and the Soul or consciousness ,which is the real Self is True and permanent. Consciousness is not human, and it is not a demigod. Consciousness is not celibate, or a worshiper. Consciousness is not a Yogi, and it is not a hermit. Consciousness is not a mother or anyone's son because it is formless and one without the second. Consciousness dwells in all the three states. No one can find its limits. Consciousness is not a house-holder, and it is not a renouncer. Consciousness is not a president of the country, and it is not a beggar. Consciousness is neither the guru nor disciple. Consciousness has no body, no drop of blood. Consciousness is neither a Hindu, nor Christen, nor a Muslim. Consciousness is not called a man of austere self-discipline, or an orthodox. Consciousness does not live, and it is not seen to die. When the ignorance [Birth, life, death and world] vanishes through wisdom consciousness alone will prevail as non-dual existence. Mind is formed of the same essence as the soul, which is in the form of consciousness. Consciousness is stable it like the ink on the news paper which cannot be erased. The ultimate goal, aim or purpose of human existence is to become linked or re-established in his true identification, the unconditioned consciousness. This is Self-Realization — the realization of man's True Self, the Soul, which is in the form of consciousness. Once one attains this pure awareness within, then he recognizes that "consciousness is the real self, and self is consciousness ". Consciousness is Soul, and the mind is in soul or consciousness. This is realized through reflecting constantly on the consciousness which is the formless substance and witness of the three states. Seeker has to recognize mentally that "consciousness is self”. He who knows this secret through deeper inquiry, analyses and reasoning become free from experiencing the illusion as reality. Consciousness is within the mind, and the mind is within the consciousness but it is without the mind. This is realized through reflecting on this subject. The consciousness is the formless essence of the mind. Therefore, the mind and soul are one is essence. |
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Peoples approach is more practical, and they stuck with the reality of the universe, they take it as real. The universe is real for those who think false self[ego] as true self and false experience as reality[waking]. And they are fully unaware of the fact that, universe is a manifestation of consciousness. It is unreal because it is mere mirage created out of consciousness. Until they think the unreal universe as reality their bondage and there idea of liberation will prevail as reality. There is neither bondage nor liberation from the ultimate standpoint.
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When you live fully, that is, without any theory or 'should be'- you see birth and death as a unitary process. You are liberated. Yes, the idea of bondage and liberation both go.
Words can not contain the REALITY. |
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The universe is conceived to be apart from the witness, and that perception is wrong, because the witness and witnessed are one in essence. The universe [witnessed] is created out of the formless witness, which is consciousness.
Universe is unconditioned superimposition. After the truth of the self is known, the illusion of the universe is removed once and for all. “But one should also take into account the conditioned superimposition, i.e., ‘the water in the mirage.’ “The mirage does not disappear even after one knows it to be a mirage. The vision is there, but the man does not run to it for water. Ultimate truth must be understood by perfect understanding. The universe, which appears as waking, is a myth. The dream is parallel waking and waking is parallel dream. Even after knowing it, it continues to appear. It must be known to be consciousness and not apart by realizing the consciousness to be ultimate truth. With the conditioned as well as the unconditioned illusions considered, the phenomenon of the water in a mirage is purely illusory because that water cannot be used for any purpose, whereas the phenomenon of the world is different, for it is purposeful. How then does the latter stand on a par with the former? “A phenomenon cannot be a reality simply because it serves a purpose or purposes. Take a dream for illustration. The dream creations are purposeful; they serve the dream purpose. The dream-water quenches dream-thirst. The dream-creation, however, is contradicted in the two other states. What is not continuous cannot be real. If real, the thing must ever be real, and not real for a short time and unreal at other times. So it is with miragified creations. They appear real and are yet illusory. The universe cannot be real of itself. That is to say apart from the consciousness, which is underlying Reality. |
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Until seeker himself indulge in deeper self-search it become very difficult for him to assimilate and realize it .The judgment of the worldview depends on medium through which observer views it. in fact ,our mental and intellectual conditions will determine the phenomenal world observed and experienced. The religionist viewing the world will see it differently from a Gnani viewing the same world. Each one interprets the world that he sees in-terms of existing knowledge . Gnani sees consciousness in everything and everywhere in diversity. A one has perfection in judging and reasoning on the base of the soul as self he has delved in to and realized the beyond and transcended consciously all his identification with the waking entity and the waking world. Thus the purpose within the mirage becomes purposeless in reality.
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OK ,if my understanding of what you are saying is real than
1. From physical point of view , world is real. Good, bad, birth, rebirth , Karma, Siddhi, bliss,religion & religious gods,heaven ,hell are also from physical point of view 2. But from ultimate point of view , world & universe are in mind only.They are projections of ultimate reality(formless substance) Sir what is your comment on meditation, & Dhyan . Can we realize truth(formless substance) with meditation , may be transitory. |
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Dear Santthoshkumaar ji, another great blog. But you only talk of the three states and not of the fourth(Turiya) which is beyond the three states. According to the Mandukya Upanisad the fourth state is the Truth or Om or Brahman.
Gaudapadacharya's karikas on the Mandukya Upanisad are a beautiful exposition on the the highest teaching of Advaita — Ajaati or Ajaatvaad. Jiva, jagat and Ishwara exist as separate entities only for the ignorant. For the jnani there is only that one non dual Brahman and everything that 'is seen' is merely an appearance on that Brahman and has no reality whatsoever like the snake which appears on the rope. True jnanis do exist even today in India as well as abroad. A few examples from the recent past are Sri Ramana Maharshi,Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Swami Tapovan Maharaj,Swami Chinmayananda, Osho. |
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Dear Ninaji,
Thank you. I respect your views. As per my conviction derived from deeper self –search:- There is no fourth state. When we become aware of the witness [Atman] the three states are mere mirage created out of consciousness. If such a stat exists than it is only on the standpoint of waking entity, which is the false self within the mirage. When the seer and seen are one in essence then there is only Atman alone prevails. Atman itself is Brahman. Turiya is nothing but Atman. Thus the jiva,jagt and ishvara are divisions created by giving forms and names within the mirage. The mirage is created out of single stuff which is Atman, which is in the form of consciousness. Without identifying forms and names brings unity in diversity. The soul is in the form of consciousness. Soul or consciousness is the true self. And it is formless and limitless primal substance of the mind, which is in the form of universe. The soul and the mind are one in essence. Only in ignorance one feels they are not the same. When one becomes aware of the ultimate truth and realizes the fact that, the universe or diversity is mere mirage created out of consciousness. Thus, the mirage which is in the form of universe has no value in the realm of truth, because the mirage is created out of single substance. That substance is formless consciousness. Thus, the individual experiences of birth, life and death which are happening within the unreal universe are bound to be falsehood. Thus the formless substance and witness of the universe is real and eternal. Thus consciousness is ultimate truth. The consciousness dwells within the universe or mind as its formless substance and witness. When the universe or mind disappears, then the formless witness is present without the physical body and the experience of the universe. Thus holding the waking or dream entity as self and trying to discover the truth is like trying to drain the ocean drop by drop. When self-wakes up in its formless true nature, the whole universe becomes mere mirage created out of it. And no second thing exist other than consciousness. It takes the role of Witness when wisdom dawns. But when its appearance is withdrawn, the role of Witness is abandoned as well. Thus only in wisdom one consciously becomes aware of the fact that the witness is real and witnessed is unreal and the unreal is created out of the real, thus there is no second thing exists other than consciousness. Consciousness assumes the form of the universe; without the universe, it is left naked. If night and day were to approach the Sun, both would disappear. In the same way, their duality would vanish if their essential Unity were seen. In fact, the duality of soul and mind cannot exist in that primal unitive state from which mind or universe emanates. One returns as waking entity when he awakens from sleep; likewise, one perceived the truth by waking from ignorance. When salt dissolves, it becomes one with the ocean; when the ignorance dissolved, mind becomes one with consciousness. Direct realization of Advaitic truth is possible to assimilate without any scriptures. |
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Dear Santthoshkumaar ji,
Thank you for the explanation.What I believe is essentially the same as what you are discussing. There may be a few apparent differences but on a careful reading they are resolved. Yes, jiva, jagat and Ishvara are only from the standpoint of the ignorant. From the absolute standpoint they are that one non dual Brahman . Yes,there is no duality in that Brahman.You may call it Atman, Turiya or pure Consciousness. It alone is the Truth and it is all pervading like space. Yes,The seer and seen are essentially one, because that Brahman is one without a second. Yes the whole world of names and forms is an illusion / mirage created in the mind due to avidya. Just as clay pervades all clay pots of different names and forms and gold pervades all gold jewelry, whether bangle or ring or anklet, so too does Brahman pervade this illusory world of names and forms. I have heard that when the mind stops or becomes, 'no mind' or dissolves into its source , Self Realisation occurs. Guru, God ,scriptures and knowledge may be used as a support for realising the Self, but ultimately all have to be dropped and the Self is realised by the Self. |
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Dear Ninaji,
Thank you. Since you are highly advanced in the path you are able to grasp what I am saying but it is very difficult to discuss with the orthodox scholars who trying to snub others with their egoic attitude. I admire your humility. It is better if one drops the tradition Advaita it leads nowhere to understand and assimilate the non-dualistic truth. The path of religion, path of yoga and the path of wisdom were intended for different classes of people. The wisdom is for the advanced seekers of truth. It deals with the nature of the ultimate Truth and Reality. It is meant for superior aspirants who have inner urge to know the truth and it is not for those who are immersed in earthly desires. Katha Upanishad: This Ataman cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Ataman reveals Its own form. [Katha Upanishad Ch-II -23-P-20] Mundaka Upanishad :- This Ataman cannot be attained through study of the Vedas, nor through intelligence, nor through much learning. He who chooses Ataman—by him alone is Ataman attained. It is Ataman that reveals to the seeker Its true nature. [ 3 –page-70 Mundaka Upanishad Upanishads by Nikilanada] When the Upanishad says: the human goal is to acquire Self-Knowledge and they indicate the personal gods, scriptures, worship and rituals are not the means to Self –Knowledge, then why anyone should indulge in it. The religion, concept of individualized god and scriptures are greatest obstacle to realize non-dual truth or self-realization, because they are based on false self. Therefore, one has to search the ultimate truth without losing himself in the labyrinths of philosophy, he should indulge in deeper, inquiry, analysis and reasoning and assimilate and realize it. Sri, Sankara says in VivekaChudamani :- 56. Neither by Yoga, nor by Sankhya, nor by work, nor by learning, but by the realisation of one's identity with Brahman is Liberation possible, and by no other means. 58. Loud speech consisting of a shower of words, the skill in expounding the Scriptures, and likewise erudition - these merely bring on a little personal enjoyment to the scholar, but are no good for Liberation. 59. The study of the Scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known. 60. The Scriptures consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely causes the mind to ramble. Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of the Self. 61. For one who has been bitten by the serpent of Ignorance, the only remedy is the knowledge of Brahman. Of what avail are the Vedas and (other) Scriptures, Mantras (sacred formulae) and medicines to such a one? 62. A disease does not leave off if one simply utter the name of the medicine, without taking it; (similarly) without direct realisation one cannot be liberated by the mere utterance of the word Brahman. 63. Without causing the objective universe to vanish and without knowing the truth of the Self, how is one to achieve Liberation by the mere utterance of the word Brahman ? — It would result merely in an effort of speech. 64. Without killing one’s enemies, and possessing oneself of the splendour of the entire surrounding region, one cannot claim to be an emperor by merely saying, ‘I am an emperor’. 65. As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a knower of Brahman, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted arguments. 66. Therefore the wise should, as in the case of disease and the like, personally strive by all the means in their power to be free from the bondage of repeated births and deaths. 67. The question that thou hast asked today is excellent, approved by those versed in the Scriptures, aphoristic, pregnant with meaning and fit to be known by the seekers after Liberation. Chandogya Upanishad "When a person is sleeping soundly, free from dreams, with a still mind, that is the Self, fearless and deathless. That is Brahman, the supreme." Seeker of truth has to direct realization of the true self, through deeper, inquiry, analysis and reasoning and avoid losing precious time and effort loosing himself in philosophical studies. |
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Meditation is not the means to acquire wisdom. There is neither meditation nor meditater, when one becomes aware of the fact that, soul or consciousness is the true self. The meditation is not possible without the physical entity.
In higher realm of pursuit of truth the question of “WHO” does not arise, because one becomes aware of the fact that, the person and his perceived world appears as whole. The mind is in the form of universe. The mind itself arises from the consciousness. The man and the world are within the mind. Until one thinks the mind is within the body he will not be able to go beyond duality. Therefore, there is a need to understand what is mind which appears as whole waking or dream [duality] and disappears as deep sleep [nonduality]. Knowing consciousness as self, mind becomes known. Knowing consciousness as self nothing else remains to be known. Knowing consciousness as self one attains to immortality that is the beginningless ultimate reality. A Gnani is fully aware, and sees the consciousness in all beings and in everything, existing equally and deathless in the living and the dying. Consciousness is present within all the three states but without the three states. Consciousness is present in all the moving and unmoving, incomprehensible, far and near, impartible, sustaining everything in the waking and dream experiences. Until one recognizes the source of the mind, one is bound to believe his birth entity as real self and his experience of universe as reality. This body one is so proud of is not the self. The body and universe exist within the mind. Therefore there is a need to know the source of the mind. The body and the world are within the waking experience. And the waking experience also will permanently vanish same way as dream, which is called death. |
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Sir
On death you are saying waking experience will permanently vanish same way as dream.OK for that entity it will disappear , but what about other persons which are seeing body as dead. (it should have disappeared for them also) |
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The birth,life,death and the world exist as reality within the universe. The universe appears as waking or dream. Just think :- what about other persons who are seeing body as dead within the dream they to disappear along with the dream world,when the waking takes place.where did they disappear. Similarly when one realizes the self is neither the waking entity nor the dream entity but the soul ,which is in the form consciousness, such perfect seer observes his innermost self[consciousness] in everything everywhere all the time. thus for a Gnani all the three states are mere mirage created out of consciousness.
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Dear Sueshji,
I admire your sincerity and seriousness in pursuit of the ultimate truth. It is mirage only until one reaches that level of understanding. From the ultimate stand point there is no mirage. In reality there is no second thing exist other than consciousness because self is in self-awareness. Until we hold the false self as real self all this question arises again and again because of our inherited conditioning. First one has to make sure: ‘What self is?’ ‘What mind is?’ ‘What is the substance of the mind?’ Where the waking world disappears in deep sleep. Where dream world disappears when waking takes place? How this universe is mirage? On what standpoint it is mirage?’ ‘Out of what the mirage is created?’ Start asking these questions to yourself again and again until the inner dialogue starts than it will start revelling on its own and clears all cobwebs of your doubts and confusions and leads you to inner realm. These posting are mere sign posts to help the fellow seekers to focus their attention inward. Seeker has to move on his own, no one else can realize the truth for him. Until one thinks on his own the inner revelation will not start. Since you have the intense urge and sincerity and seriousness to know the truth, it will start revealing in lesser time and effort. Putting question to your own self is necessary in this inner [mental] journey, because you alone have to travel within by knowing what is blocking your realization and removing all the blockade and obstacle. Until one think his body is made of flesh, bone and blood and world is created out of five elements he will never be able to believe the fact that, the physical existence [man+ universe] is mere mirage. One has to know everything as consciousness and judge, reason and conclude the truth not on the waking entity but the formless witness [soul or consciousness or true self] of the three states. |
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Sir
with due respect to you , I must admit that you are the Ist person on this site ( in real life I usually do not ask spiritual questions to anyone, I do not have any spiritual guru, I am inclined to yoga ,meditation, physical fitness) who have tried to answer my questions without getting bored,without any arrogance, I salute to you. Otherwise from physical point of view I am satisfied with life , but at the same times spiritual questions come to my mind.I do not think of liberation but these questions do come. Thanks a lot for your understanding and patience. Thanks again. |
Dear Sureshji ,
Thank you for your soothing words. there is no need for any guru. your self is your guru. your inner work is on . only by asking question nobody get self realized. whatever chosen path you are in continue with that. the truth will start reveling on its own when our inner understanding grows. Millions are seeking truth but one in million realize it . so you will be one from that million. Only love,peace and happiness fill your life in this illusory duality. I enjoyed interacting with you.
Take care
Santthosh
Thank you for your soothing words. there is no need for any guru. your self is your guru. your inner work is on . only by asking question nobody get self realized. whatever chosen path you are in continue with that. the truth will start reveling on its own when our inner understanding grows. Millions are seeking truth but one in million realize it . so you will be one from that million. Only love,peace and happiness fill your life in this illusory duality. I enjoyed interacting with you.
Take care
Santthosh
