Adythmic discussion -353 (doer)

Trev Light Bown:- 

Q: - Who is the do er of our thoughts and actions. Can you write and post an answer on my page as I am not agreeing with Praveen on this matter.

 All experiences of individual actions, conducts happenings are within the universe are a mere mirage created out of the formless soul,  the innermost self, which is in the form of  consciousness. All the conceivable actions and happenings are attributable to the  soul , the true self,which is present  in the form consciousness. 

 The doer, doing (action or karma) is present only in the realm of duality. The duality is present only when there is form, time and space. The form, time and space are present only when the universe is present.  The The universe is present only in waking there is waking experience. (also in dream).  The waking is present only when the mind (I) is present.  The mind is present only when there is ignorance. Wisdom dawns when the self (soul) is in the awareness its formless nondual true nature.

In self-awareness the form, time and space are one in essence.  That essence is consciousness.  Thus the doer, doing and the world are one in essence. Therefore in the realm of truth there is neither the doer nor doing nor the world because everything is consciousness.

Thus it is necessary to understand the fact that the self is neither the waking entity nor the self is dream entity but the self is the formless soul, which is present in the form of consciousness.

Thoughts arise to the person within the waking or dream. Thinker is the form. Without the form the thinking is impossibility. Thus thinker and the thoughts are part of the known. The witness of the knower and the known including the world is formless soul, which is present in the form of consciousness. 

Thoughts and thinker are present only when the world is present. The world is present only when the waking experience is present. Waking experience is mere illusion from ultimate standpoint. If the waking experience is mere illusion then the thought, thinker and the world are mere illusion. 

Thought, thinker and the world are nothing to do with the formless witness. The witness is that witnesses the thoughts, the thinker and the world together. The thoughts, thinker and the world are one in essence. And also the three states are one in essence. That essence is consciousness. The consciousness (soul) is the innermost self. The consciousness is the ultimate reality or Brahman or God.

The thoughts cannot rise without form, time and space. Form, time and space are reality within the duality.  The duality is present only when there is ignorance of the soul, the innermost self.

Till man thinks himself as the doer he will remain in ignorance. Till he is ignorant he will not be able to accept the fact that, the thinker, thoughts and the world as   illusion.  Till he realizes the thinker, thought and the world are one in essence he will not be able to accept the fact that the duality (waking experience) as an illusion.

Thought and thinker are reality within the universe.  The thinker and the thought exist within the universe. The man and his experience of the universe is a reality within the waking experience.  The waking experience is mere illusion on the ultimate standpoint.    Therefore, the individual experiences are part of the illusion. Thus thought and the thinker are part of the illusion. The self is ever that which is aware of the thought, thinker and world together without physical apparatus. The thoughts will not rise without the form whereas the self is formless.   Thus self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is necessary to know what is what. 

From the standpoint of the waking entity the universe is a reality from the standpoint of the soul, the innermost self, the universe is mere illusion created out of consciousness. When wisdom dawns then one realizes the whole universe is consciousness. The dualistic view is possible only in the states of ignorance.

There is only need to realize the whole universe in which we exist is created out of consciousness (soul or Atman), the innermost self.  On the standpoint innermost self, the universe is mere illusion created out of consciousness.  Thus on the ultimate standpoint no second thing exists other than consciousness. Thus consciousness is ultimate truth or Brahman.  The Brahman is God. 

Consciousness is the root element of the universe. From consciousness the universe comes into existence. In the consciousness the universe resides. And into the consciousness the universe is dissolved.   Consciousness is the parent of all that is there is.  The consciousness is the only reality, and the universe to but an illusory manifestation. 

Till one thinks the illusion or duality as reality he will not be able to assimilate self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.  

Adyathmic discussion- 351

http://sunthosh-formlesspath.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-ego-body-world-intellect-are.html?spref=fb

• John LeKay The greatest obstacle in the path of surrender is egoism (ahamkaram) and Attachment or Possessiveness (mamakaram). This is ingrained in your personality since ages and its tentacles go deeper and deeper with the experience of every succeeding life. It can be removed only by the twin detergents of discrimination and ren...unciation. Devotion is the water to wash away this dirt of ages, and the soap of japam, dhyaanam and yoga (repetition of God's name, meditation and communion) will help to remove it quicker and more effectively. Slow and steady progress will surely win the race in this one; quicker means of travel can spell disaster. Proceed step by step in your spiritual practices - placing one steady step before you take the next. Do not waver or slide back two paces with one step forward. Cultivate deep faith - that will make your progress steady! -- Baba

  4 hours ago · Like
• 

  Santthosh Kumaar Ignorance is the greatest obstacle in the pursuit of truth. 
  
  

  
  

  The dream ego, dream body and the dream world are reality within the dream but the dream is considered as falsehood when waking takes place. Similarly the waking ego, waking body and waking world are reality within the waking experience but the waking experience also becomes falsehood when wisdom dawns. 
  
  

  Wisdom dawns when the waking entity realizes it itself is not the self in the midst of waking experience. 

  Waking experience is state of ignorance. In the state ignorance one remains experiencing illusion as reality. Till illusion remains a reality, he will remain ignorant of the fact that, the cycle of birth, life and death are mere mirage. Therefore, it is not possible for one to accept the fact that, the world is illusion, till he becomes aware of the fact that , the self is neither the waking entity nor the self is dream entity but the self the formless soul or consciousness ,which is the  substance and witness of the three states. Therefore, for those who believe the waking entity as self, and refuse to accept the soul as true self, think that by getting rid of the ego by surrendering to their imaginary source is not the means to self-realization. the seeker  has to realize the fact that, one has to become aware of the existence of the formless witness of the three states, which is the soul, the innermost self. 
  
  

  The ego, body and the world appear together and they disappear together. The ego, body and the world are one in essence. 
  
  

  Waking entity is false self within the false experience whereas the self is birthless and deathless because self is formless. Thus surrendering with the false self within the false experience is bound to false surrender. The surrendering is a religious fable meant for the ignorant people. 
  
  

  Sage Sri, Sankara says: - VC-47 All the effects of ignorance, root and branch, are burnt down by the fire of knowledge, which arises from discrimination between these two—the Self and the not-Self.

The objective world-the world of names and forms-has no independent existence.***

,

To realize the Advaitic truth the seeker has to be free from all superstitions and orthodox contamination. ***

Sage Sri, Sankara’s Supreme Brahman is impersonal, Nirguna (without Gunas or attributes), Nirakara (formless), Nirvisesha (without special characteristics), immutable, eternal and Akarta (non-agent). It is above all needs and desires. It is always the Witnessing Subject. It can never become an object as It is beyond the reach of the senses. Brahman is non-dual, one without a second. It has no other beside it. It is destitute of difference, either external or internal. Brahman cannot be described, because description implies distinction. Brahman cannot be distinguished from any other than It. In Brahman, there is not the distinction of substance and attribute. Sat-Chit-Ananda constitute the very essence or Svarupa of Brahman, and not just Its attributes. The Nirguna Brahman of Sankara is impersonal.

Self –knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is inexhaustible wealth. Other wealth disappears as one spends, but with the Self –knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana, the more one shares more he gains.  

The self is not the ‘I’.  ‘I’ is present in the form of mind. The origin of mind is soul. The mind is present in the form of the universe. The soul is present in the form of consciousness.  The root of the universe is consciousness. 
 
The origin of mind is the soul. The soul is the innermost Self. The formless soul is present in the form of consciousness. 

It is erroneous to   hold "Brahman =I" as some of the gurus hold because the ‘I’ itself is an illusion.It is consciousness which being divided into parts, and viewed from the standpoint of the waking entity or ego, which is the false self within the false experience (waking). In reality there is no division in consciousness. Therefore the form, time and space mere illusion created out of consciousness. In reality the form, time and space are one in essence. 

Only through Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana negation of duality is possible. The soul, which is present in the form of consciousness, is ultimate truth or Brahman. The consciousness is the cause of the origin, maintenance, and withdrawal of the universe is Advaita (i.e. non-dual), it means that the consciousness transcends all conceptions, positive and negative. Nothing positive can ever be imagined or said about it.  The consciousness is existence absolute, awareness absolute.  The existence absolute means that consciousness is not unreal or non-existent. And it is not unconsciousness.  Nothing positive can be stated about consciousness.
 
The consciousness can be seen in all the three states because the three states are an illusion created out of consciousness.   The waking, the dream (duality) and the deep sleep (non-duality).   
 
The soul, the innermost self is present in the form of – pure consciousness or objectless awareness. Objectless Awareness is the real nature of the soul, the innermost Self.
 
Consciousness is ultimate truth or Brahman. Reality is very clearly defined and it has a specific significance. It means, "That which exists in all the three states of consciousness (waking state, dream state and deep-sleep state) undergoing any change.in the realm  of truth the three states are one in essence. That essence is consciousness, therefore the soul, which is present in the form of consciousness, is absolute Reality. The soul, the innermost self is birthless, deathless and changeless is ultimate reality or Brahman. It is necessary to realize the fact that ‘I’ itself is an illusion in order to realize the universe is an illusion".
 
The universe appears "real" only in the "waking experience;" but it is it disappears in the dream and deep-sleep states. The three states are one in essence. Therefore all the three states are mere mirage created out of single essence. That essence is consciousness. Thus on the standpoint of the soul, the innermost self the three states are unreal. 
  
Swami Vivekananda:~  The Higher your ideal is, the more miserable you are,' for such a thing as an ideal cannot be attained in the world — or in this life, even. He who wants perfection in the world is a madman — for it cannot be. How can you find the infinite in the finite? 
 
It has not been possible to preach Advaitic Truth entirely free from the settings of dualistic weakness it has not been more operative and useful to mankind at large because only few will be able to grasp and realize it.
 
To realize the Advaitic Truth a freer and fuller scope the seeker has to realize the form, time and space are one in essence. And that essence is consciousness. And the soul, the innermost self is present in the form of consciousness. 
 
To realize the Advaitic truth the seeker has to be free from all superstitions and orthodox contamination. The seeker has to be dedicated to acquire Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana   alone.'
 
A  Gnani will easily appreciate the high flights of Sage Sri, Sankara’s Advaitic wisdom is one of the 'most majestic structures and valuable products of the Genius of man in his search for Truth.

The soul is the inner most self , but due to ignorance it is in the bondage of the illusory duality***

The Soul is indeed the supreme Self but due to its association with ignorance it finds itself under the bondage of the illusory duality, which is the sole cause of  experiencing  birth,  life , death  and the world as a reality .

Sage Sri, Sankara says: - VC-47   All the effects of ignorance, root and branch, are burnt down by the fire of knowledge, which arises from discrimination between these two—the Self and the not-Self.

Sage Sri, Sankara says: - VC-162-  There is no liberation for a person of mere book-knowledge, howsoever well-read in the philosophy of Vedanta, so long as one does not give up the false identification with the body, sense-organs, etc., which are unreal.

The false identification of the Self with the non-Self is considered to be the root cause of the universe. When through deeper self-search this false identification removed, it is called liberation.

The soul, the innermost self is of the nature of the objectless awareness. This truth is self-existent and cannot be denied, for to deny one‘s self is to actually prove its existence! The experiential realization of this truth is the goal of the seeker of truth.

There is no difference between self-knowledge and self-realization, for to know the true self is to realize the true self is not the waking entity (ego) but the formless soul, which is present in the form of consciousness.

Since the ultimate goal of the seeker of truth is to attain liberation from experiencing the duality as reality. Through Self-Knowledge, leads to the liberating the soul, the innermost self from experiencing the form, time and space as reality.

Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana has been explored since time immemorial attests to its perennial interest and universal value.

Long before Socrates’ injunction: - “Know Thyself”, Indian sages have been exploring for long the question of the truth of the man and his experience of the universe. Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is fundamental since all other knowledge is dependent upon this knowledge. It is important for one to know “what is truth” to realize “what is untruth”.

Without first knowing the true self, one can never understand truly where he stands in the cosmic scheme of things. Ignorance of the innermost self is seen as the root cause of experiencing the birth, life, death and the world as reality.

Due to ignorance of our true self and consequent lack of correct valuation of things, one is stuck with the illusory reality of the universe because they take it as real.

Without knowing the true self —the truth of one’s existence—one can never overcome the ignorance.

Advaita only means negation of duality. The soul, which is present in the form of consciousness, is ultimate truth or Brahman. The consciousness is the cause of the origin, maintenance, and withdrawal of the universe is Advaita (i.e. non-dual), it means that the consciousness transcends all conceptions, positive and negative. Nothing positive can ever be imagined or said about it.

The consciousness is existence absolute, awareness absolute.  Existence absolute means that consciousness is not unreal or non-existent. And it is not unconsciousness.  Nothing positive can be stated about consciousness.

In one of the Upanishads the disciple says to the Master: "Lord, tell me the nature of Atman". The Teacher remains silent. Again the question is asked, and again the answer is silence. By his silence the Teacher indicated that the nature of Atman is in inexplicable, indescribable and unimaginable.

The soul, the innermost self is the One without a second. There is not the least shadow of multiplicity in the soul, which is present in the form of consciousness." 

The consciousness is ultimate truth or Brahman. Non-dual Reality is All there is***

Questions: If Brahman is One only, without a second, how does one experience the manifold world?

Answer: - Due to ignorance led illusion “covers" the consciousness and "projects" the Many. There is no illusion in the realm of truth. If there is no illusion,  then there is no universe. If there is no universe,  then there is no waking. If there is no waking, then there is only the formless soul, which is present in the form of  the consciousness.

Thus,  in truth there is only the soul or the  consciousness. The consciousness is  the ultimate truth or Brahman. Non-dualistic  Reality is all there is.

It is called Brahman,  because it is all-pervasive. It is intrinsically Real, self-effulgent, infinite, undifferentiated pure consciousness.

When  the wisdom dawns then one realizes   the waking experience is mere illusion created out of  the consciousness.  The waking is  a parallel dream and dream is a  parallel waking. The dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. The waking becomes unreal when wisdom dawns. The wisdom dawns when waking entity becomes aware of the fact that,  it itself is not the self,  but the self is the formless soul, which witnesses coming and going of the three states. In the realm of truth the witness and the three states are one in essence. That essence is  The consciousness.  Thus,  there is no second thing exists other than  the consciousness.  The consciousness is second to none.  Thus,  there is only ONE.

In the realm of truth there is only self-awareness in the midst of the duality. The dualistic show, however, continues, as before. Only identification with ego (waking entity) is gone forever.

Self-knowledge is the essence of the immanent (soul) and the transcendent Reality or Brahman. Humanity has not yet conceived a more lofty conception of its position in the universe.