Only ultimate truth can be considered as God

Religious and Yogic truth is individual truth based on the ‘I’ as self which is the false identity therefore it is not universal. The spiritual truth is universal on which the whole human experience that is including the universe is based.

• v  How do the mystics or yogi know they have experienced the whole?
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• v  Where is the proof they have seen it?

 When they say “they know from experience” they merely mean “they think so.” If mystics experience joy, they cannot be egoless, for who is having the joy? And if they retain the ego they cannot know the Universal truth, the whole.

There is need of definition before study because "Religions place God as the unknown reality” intellectuals place it as the unknown reality. Every religionist has a different idea of God. Every man has a different idea of real. The fallacy of believers  appeal to scripture lies in the varying and conflicting interpretations of the same scripture which different men feel entitled to give or hold.

The yogi or mystic who sees or experiences something in his meditation which he takes as the highest truth, it is ultimate truth only on the base of ‘I’ as self which is the false self”. The yogi and mystic s experiences everything as a person therefore it is experienced within the illusory Waking experience. Simply saying there is 'God' is of no use. 

 

That is why 

Buddha Said: - Believe nothing because a wise man said it,

 
Believe nothing because it is generally held.

 
Believe nothing because it is written.

 
Believe nothing because it is said to be divine.

 
Believe nothing because someone else said it.

 
But believe only what you yourself judge to be true.

(from The Mystic Vision
Compiled by Andrew Harvey and Anne Baring)

Thus Seeker of truth should not believe blindly  his inherited  religious belief without verifying all the facts from every angle. One has to reflect through reasoning over and over again without getting tired of the process. 

  “If there is God -—prove it. If there is no God --prove it." Religionists dogmatically assume the existence of god and atheists assume there is no God. 

How one knows, that God who tells about himself in meditation  is truthful! He may tell one a lie! His statements must therefore be tested. Supposing a mystic has a vision, which experience is true, but he must prove that it is really what it purports to be, and that he is not deluded.

When one  does not know truth, he  can only guess, imagine, hence doubts and questions and discussions arise.

If one says God is in haven, others say he is within. Again the God may take different form and name. Then which form and name of God is correct? Some contend that God is sound and say one hears the divine sound inside in meditation, still others say God is fragrant smell and that beautiful scent comes in meditation as the presence of God. All these differences of opinion, they can be endless, show mutual contradiction and general error, that is lack of certain truth. Moreover if one sees form one is seeing a second thing, a seen.

 

 One should not try to judge ultimate truth holding religious or yogic doctrine as a yardstick.  Religion and yoga is not the yardstick to judge the ultimate truth   because they are practiced on the base of waking entity or physical self or ego.   The waking entity or physical self or ego is false self within the false experience (waking).    The non dualistic or  Advaitic  truth has to be viewed and judged without scriptures, and on the base of the soul, the innermost self.  This formless path is inner path is without the religion or scriptures or god or yoga. The formless path is pathless path is without guru and self – treading towards direct realization.

Ultimate truth is based on the soul therefore whatever practiced on the base waking entity will not yield any fruit,   because the waking entity is the false self within the false experience. The religion and yoga are based on the form therefore they are   based on the matter (form) whereas the spirituality is based on the spirit (formless).  Thus religion and yoga are not spirituality, hence there is need to bifurcate spirituality from matter (form) based religion and yoga.

Advaita refers to non- duality. Non -duality is not a theory or concept but  it is the nurture of the soul, the  innermost self, which Atman (soul or spirit or consciousness).  Thus whatever is based on the soul is spiritual. The soul is eternal identity which has no birth, life and death, because it is the formless.  Soul, which is in the form of consciousness, is the formless substance and witness of the illusory experience of birth, life, death and world.

The religion is based on the form. Without the form there is no question of religion. The religion accepts the concept of God, and believes the body itself as self, and injects theoretical code of conduct to live in the world, whereas in spirituality, the soul or consciousness is the true self and body, ego, world, conceptual god are part of the illusion created out of consciousness.  

From ultimate standpoint the soul,which is present in the form of consciousness is ultimate truth. Only ultimate truth can be considered as God. Thus consciousness(soul) is ultimate truth or Brahman. Brahman is GOD.  thus there is no other god other than the consciousness(soul), the innermost self. the innermost self is God.

Upanishads confirms this:- Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, which is a part of Vedas, Declares that:-Brahman is the form of the Athma, and it is indeed Athma itself.

Adyathmic Discussion-315

FORMLESS PATH: The average man does not indulge in truth pursuit and it is difficult for him because

sunthosh-formlesspath.blogspot.com

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  Chris Waller, Linnéa Borealis and Aishwarya Lama like this.
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    Aishwarya Lama I keep reading u mentioning the three states, Sir. Are they the body, mind and intellect. If u would kindly give an example of truth being behind falsehood, i will be grateful. Regards.
    

    4 hours ago via mobile ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    Three states are waking,dream and deep sleep. The waking is parallel dream and dream is parallel waking experience. Mind means man +his experience of the world together . The mind(I) is present n the form of universe. Universe appears as waking or dream(duality) and it disappears as deep sleep(non-duality). the formless substance and witness of the three states is the formless soul. The formless soul is present in the form of consciousness. The formless substance and witness of the three states are one in essence. That essence is consciousness(soul). Thus the three states are one in essence. Therefore there is no second thing exists other than consciousness. Thus consciousness alone is real and all else is mere mirage created out of consciousness. thus consciousness (soul or Atman) alone is ultimate truth or Brahman.

    
    

    4 hours ago · · 1
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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    The body ego and the world are within the mind. People think mind is within the body but body and the world are within the mind. If mind is there then only the body and the world are there. If mind is there than only the universe is there. If mind is there than only waking or dream is present. Thus it is necessary to know what is what to understand assimilate and realize the ultimate truth or Brahman. If one get stuck with body mind and intellect it leads to intellectuality. Intellectuality is limited to physicality. Physicality is limited to duality. Duality is is mere illusion from ultimate standpoint. Thus one has to drop all the accumulated knowledge and unlearn and what he has learnt in order acquire Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.

    
    

    4 hours ago · · 1
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    Aishwarya Lama This leaves me wondering as to how many are there to really know the formless self. Were the masters like Ramana n Nisargadatta self realised, knowing about the formless soul? Do u, Sir also know ur formless self? If yes then how did u drop all the knowledge u accumulated thru the years? I hope my queries r not bothersome. They come from an ajnani♥
    

    3 hours ago via mobile ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    Sri Ramana Maharishi Says: The self is fullness of consciousness. Therefore, there is nothing apart from it. Ramana would humorously say that if god were to be separate he would be self-less. As for Sadguru his individuality is dead. It is merged in the self like waves in the sea. so, he is the Self. The guru and god are not different for their essential nature as unlimited consciousness is the same. [Page-8 – Practical Guide To Know Yourself].

    
    

    31 minutes ago · · 1
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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    We have to grow from the inside out. None can teach us, none can make us spiritual. There is no other guru but our own soul.”
    Self-knowledge or Atma Gnana or Brahma Gnana cannot be attained by one who is without strength or earnestness or without the receptiveness and courage to accept the truth and reject the untruth. If a serious seeker strives sincerely by means of inquiry, analysis and soulcentric reasoning, he will be able to realize it.
    It is only seekers sincerity and earnestness in his spiritual pursuit, the knowledge started revealing on its own. Anyone who has humility and patience and is sincere and ready to drop their accumulated dross and receptive to accept the truth will enter non-dual Self-Awareness when his conviction becomes firm.

    
    

    27 minutes ago · · 1
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    Santthosh Kumaar Any one who claims he is self-realized than he is not self-realized. Upanishads say :-"He who thinks he knows, does not know." This means that to know anything implies a second, an object of knowledge, hence duality, i.e. no Gnana.
    

    20 minutes ago · · 1
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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    Sri, Sankara's commentary:-
    
    
    Page 489: "The knower of Brahman (self-realized or Gnani) wears no signs. Page 500 asks in effect "Tell us what you know, show it, and let us examine it under the mental microscope." It means we must bring notions and beliefs out of vagueness into clearness. It also criticizes the mystics who claim superior knowledge but who cannot communicate it for purposes of verification.
    
    On page 482: On Gnani: "The knower of Brahman wears no signs. Gives up the insignia of a monk's life,…his signs are not manifest, nor his behavior."

    
    

    about a minute ago ·

One sees the water when there is a reflection of the light on the sand, mirage

 One sees the water when there is a reflection of the light on the sand, mirage. In dream everything is within the consciousness because the universe of the dream is in consciousness, yet different, likewise in the waking experience, the whole universe appears in consciousness  only. One has to use his common sense in the waking experience. Because one is attached to the body and the world; he thinks his body and the world are not consciousness.

One cannot be aware of his body and the world; and all his individual experience (including something of the past in the form of knowledge based on purely memory also) without the consciousness. Thus, for anything to exist consciousness is the main ingredient, therefore, everything is dependent on consciousness because everything is consciousness. The diversity is reality because; one doesn’t consider his body, world and his individual experiences as consciousness.

The ignorance is ever present in waking experience makes one experience the illusion as reality. The waking experience is only an appearance in which the individual perceives the world as a person and it changes every moment, at no time it is unchanging; then where has it disappeared in deep sleep or when the dream experience was on. Deeper Inquiry, analysis reasoning reveals the fact that, the self is not physical but it is consciousness. Then who is the knower of these three states, which comes and goes in succession.

One has to analyze the mind in waking experience then he will be able to understand this. One mistakes the body to be the matter and everything else as mind. One thinks his body is matter and he cannot understand the fact that, the body including the world undefined is mere illusion created out of consciousness. Until he thinks the illusion as reality he remains believing the birth, life, death and world as reality. Therefore, it is necessary to know and realize the self is not physical but self is consciousness undefined to cross the threshold of duality.


Dissolution of the mind, daily in deep sleep, in consciousness undefined, as it has emanated from and in consciousness. The waking experience is converted in to dream and the dream is converted into deep sleep. One does not know this because he does not know the three states are mere illusion and again he is afraid his body and individuality and the world will go. He cannot tolerate to lose his physical existence. Constantly thinking of the birth entity has concertizes the idea of birth, life and death, thus, the physical existence has become an actuality. The same way one has to think constantly about the fact that, the self is not physical but formless consciousness to dismantle the physical structure built on the baseless undefined foundation.


It is difficult to say body and the world as illusion within the illusion without inquiry, analysis and reasoning. Only after deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning, one becomes aware of the existence of the witness, which is in the form consciousness and become aware of the fact that the physical existence is mere mirage created out of consciousness. Therefore, whatever one knows as person of the world is part of the mirage created out of consciousness. When the mirage is created out of consciousness then how the appearance in which man perceives the world can be true.


Just as ice block dissolves into water or ornament in to gold, so the mind undefined which has emanated from consciousness dissolves as consciousness. Thus, no second thing exits other than consciousness.

The time [the past present and future] is part and parcel of illusion. Until one thinks the self is form, he is bound to experience the time and space as reality. The only away to overcome from the form, time and space undefined is to realize the self is not physical but the self is consciousness.

People consider themselves to be knowledgeable because they have read books and well informed about the subject. But all these accumulated knowledge is not wisdom. One can’t get non-dual wisdom from accumulating knowledge.

Whether the knowledge accumulated are scriptures or something from more recently published books are mere pointers to truth but not wisdom. First, whether one is aware of it or not, as he reads he is imposing his own cultural conditioning, biases, experiences, and prior knowledge onto what he is reading; this is how his thinking faculty works. He “makes sense" of new things by associating them with things he already knows.

Most of the time, this is useful. But if the "new thing" is utterly different from anything one has been exposed to before, he is almost certain to distort it to make it fit into pre-existing conceptual boxes. So much of knowledge is about changing perspective, but that's hard to do when he is twisting the knowledge around to fit the perspectives he is already has.

As one goes on digging mentally and on more things will be revealed to him through inner revelation, which makes him get firm conviction of what is what.


One has to grasp the existence of the formless witness (soul or consciousness) of the three states mentally to realize the three states are mere illusion. And focusing attention on the formless witness constantly one will be able to establish the reasoning base on the base of formless witness. And when the reasoning base is established on the base of formless witness it becomes easy to understand and assimilate the Self-Knowledge or  Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.

But it takes much time to establish in consciousness because one has to overcome the physical conditioning by realizing the self is not physical but it is formless.

Devoid of Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana one is enveloped in ignorance

It is like the sea water is forgetting its own impurities and is thinking that it is the pure water, which is a component of the sea water. By such thinking, the impurities are not filtered and the saltishness does not disappear. To remove the impurities, work (filtration) should be done. Then the sea water can really become the pure water. Thinking is not work. Filtration is the work.

 From the standpoint of the formless  soul, the innermost  self, the three states are unreal.  The man and the world are reality within the waking. The mind or I appear as waking and dream, and disappear as deep sleep.  The one which is aware of the three states is within the three states, and it is apart from the three states. it is within the three states   as  their formless substance, and it is without the three states as their  formless witness.  It is apart from the three states because it is not an entity or identity within the waking or dream.  The three states are mere object to the soul or consciousness, the innermost self.

Oneness is possible only when we become aware of the fact that, the formless soul  is the true self, and able to view and judge the three states , on the standpoint of formless soul  as self.  The diversity (duality/illusion) is reality, only on the base of  the ego or waking entity as self.

Therefore it is necessary to discover and realize the fact that, the source of the three states is soul, and soul is the true self, and witness of the three states, which appear and disappear in succession.  The three states are unreal, on the standpoint of the formless soul as self; this helps the seeker to realize the fact that the world is unreal.

 The world is reality only within the waking experience, but waking is as real as dream.  Therefore the substance and witness of the three states, which is soul or consciousness is the true self, and real. And the formless   soul itself is ultimate truth or Brahman. 

A man may wish to live for a hundred years, performing his worldly duties as prescribed by the religion and scriptures. But religion and scriptural knowledge is not the means to acquire the self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. There is no other way other than the path of truth or wisdom.

That is why Sri Sankara, indicated  in Bhaja Govindam says: - [Jnana Viheena Sarva Mathena Bajathi na Muktim janma Shatena] - one without knowledge does not obtain liberation even in a hundred births, no matter which religious faith he follows.

There is no point in running after the pleasures of the world. Pleasures and pain are momentary. If on e run after pleasure of the world he will not be able to cross the threshold of duality. Without receptiveness and without inner urge it is impossible   to acquire Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.

Deeper self-search will slowly make one receptive to receive self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. As the spirit of discrimination will grow stronger, and love for Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana develops. When this happens they will be able to grasp the non dual truth. The end result is that they will acquire Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana, and able to realize the universe (mind or waking or duality) is mere mirage on the standpoint of the soul or consciousness the innermost self.  

Soul-centric reasoning is only way to acquire Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. One need not feel lost. It takes time to assimilate. People who are practicing other paths sooner or later they have to come to the path of truth if they are interested in the acquiring Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. Till then they must continue the chosen path.

Devoid of Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana one is enveloped in ignorance. Those people who have neglected the attainment of Self-knowledge will remain in ignorance experiencing the illusory experience of birth, life, death and the world (waking) as reality.

The formless soul will be liberated from experiencing the illusory experience cycle of birth, life and death only through non-dualistic wisdom.

Just as there are many paths to a city, multiple religions of the world today has many paths symbolize multiple paths but none lead towards the reality of one’s  true existence. Each religion has its own idea of god, haven, hell, sin, karma, birth, death and rebirth.  But there is no religion in the world which is without the idea of god.

When man and his universe and his idea of god cease to exist without the mind, it is high time for everyone one of us to verify:-

The man cannot operate himself as a person and perceive the world without the mind because he and his experience of the world are within the mind.  If man is not a man but the man is  mind then his whole experience of the world also becomes the mind. Therefore mind is not limited only the physical entity but to the whole universe ,which appears as Waking or dream in which the man perceives the world as an individual. Therefore it is necessary to analyze the three states in order to unfold the mystery of the mind through deeper self -search.

The mind is in the form of universe and soul is in the form of Consciousness are one in essence.  And that essence is consciousness. The consciousness is the formless substance and witness of the three states. Without the Consciousness, the three states cease to exist. 

The whole Waking experience is like chariot. The charioteer is formless soul. The main purpose of the spiritual journey lies in seeking the formless charioteer which is Consciousness. The soul or Consciousness is within the three states as their  formless  substance and   it is without the  three states  as  their  formless  witness. 

To seek the truth is to know the truth.  To know the truth means  realizing the truth.  Realizing the truth means  to abide in the truth. Consciousness the innermost self an unborn, an unbecoming, an un-created, an uncompounded therefore there is no escape from the duality if one thinks he is born, created and made.

But the one who realizes the fact that, whatever he believed on the base of ‘I’ as self,  that is about his birth, life, death  and the world are mere illusion on the standpoint of the Consciousness which is the innermost self.  The soul is liberated from experiencing the illusory experience cycle of birth, life and death only through non-dualistic wisdom.

The nature of the deathless substance which is called Consciousness or spirit is the unconditioned ultimate reality. Thus ultimate truth is only soul or Consciousness rest is illusion created out of consciousness.