Adyatmic Discussion(meeting God) -209

Sri, Ashwani Kumar Dhir:-

REALIZE THE GOD
I AM PROUD TO SAY AND DECLARE
THAT I HAVE MET THE "GOD"
On 15th of March 2008 during my sleep I had a dream. During my dream I was sitting under a tree in an abundant area far from city with my head down and in a thoughtful mode.
After some time I realized a passerby stopped in front me. Then I raised my head and saw a strange figure in front me.
That figure asked me I am watching ...you since fourty years you are comming here and sit for some time and go back. What is the cause your comming here?
I replied to him that I am in search of " ALL MIGHTY GOD " IN ACTUAL SHAPE.
Then stranger questioned me, do you know that the creatures are existing because of " God's Power " ?
I replied yes.
Then he smiled and said, is it not sufficient ?
Then I replied, NO.
Then the stranger said HE could help me know and realize what will happen, when God is not present.
I replied O K please let me realize that.
Then the stranger asked me to get up, when I got up, HE held me from my waist side and told me close my eyes till next order. Then he said come along with me and took me to another unknown place. After reaching there HE asked me to open my eyes.
Then stranger questioned me could I see HIM ?
Then I replied Yes.
Then HE ordered me to look around.
When I happened to look around I saw nothing around all had vanished and collapsed. Looking at that I was so stunned, that I became speechless.
Then HE questioned me should we go back now ?
I nodded my head in YES.
When we came back at the spot from where HE took me, HE asked me have you realized who the GOD is ?
I nodded my head in YES & pointed towards HIM, considering HIM the " GOD " As I remained safe with HIM.
Then I asked who exactly you are ? Then stranger replied I am YAYOO, HAWA, AIR and SAID HE is the only GOD of entire universe. This I have told you to end your search for me " THE ALL MIGHTY GOD ".
Further describing about himself HE said as under :- That
1 Where HE is present, creatures and creation exists, else not.
2 HE is the creator, the protector & the destroyer of entire universe.
3 HE is the master, He is the slave and HE is the servant.
4 HE is available in state in which the creatures want HIM to see.
5 HE does not charge or demand any thing for the services HE renders to this universe. Hence all sorts of offerings in his name remain as waste.
6 He enters and exits out as a creature inhales and exhales. Thus He has no home.
7 HE is present in every creature regardless of personality and dignity.
8 HE has no son, no daughter and no nominee. In fact HE is all alone.
9 To have HIM creature needs not go anywhere, as HE is present just adjacent to every creature.
10 In fact all creatures are equally loveable to HIM.
11 Creatures can call HIM by any word they know, as HE has no specific name.
12 All creature are the produce of the respective reproduction procedure present in the body of all creatures. HE gives them life & they grow up from the time of concievment.
13 All creatures are getting the rewards of acts they perform. All creatures perform an act to fulfill their own need of time to earn their livelihood.
14 HE is not at all responsible of their act they do. Also HE does not guide them to perform or not perform a specific act.
After reading the above subject if you feel you are also like minded then please forward this paper to some friends & relatives for their information.
Appeal from A K Dhir Mob: 9312547928 As human beings follow as under:-
1 Worship at first place the prandata " ALL MIGHTY GOD " as realized.
2 Worship secondly to Janamdata " YOUR OWN MOTHER ".
3 Worship thirdly to Anndata " ROUR OWN FATHER ".
4 Fourthly give due regards to all of " YOUR ELDERS " & love to all youngesters.
5 At last give due regards to " YOUR GURU " your knowledge providers.

· · · See Friendship · 19 hours ago near New Delhi, Delhi

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    Santthosh Kumaar I respect your views and wisdom. from standpoint of the birth entity whatever you experienced is true but from ultimate standpoint the duality is mere illusion. thus whatever seen,known, believed and experienced within the duality is bound to be falsehood because the duality is boud by form,time and space whereas the soul ,the innermost self is formless,timeless and space less existence.
    

    19 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    Sri Sankara and Maya or illusion
    VlSHNUVARDHANA, the King of the Hoysalas, was a Vaishnavite and was greatly incensed at the doctrine taught by Sri, Sankara that everything here below is an illusion. He wanted to teach the exponent of this doctrine a lesson. So he invited the then Sri, Sankara to his palace. That holy man went there and stoutly maintained that everything in this world was illusion. The king had arranged to let loose an infuriated elephant against Sri, Sankara. The beast rushed at Sri, Sankara who took to a precipitate flight to save himself.
    
    'Oh, Venerable Sir,' shouted the king, 'why do you run so fast seeing that the elephant is only an illusion?'
    
    'Oh, king,' said Sri,Sankara in his course of his flight, 'my running too is an illusion. Everything in this world is an illusion.’
    
    Similarly, the experiencing birth, life, death and the world are within the illusion. Due to ignorance the illusion is experienced as reality. The illusion is present in the form of ‘I’ or mind. Mind is present in the form of universe. Universe appears as waking or dream and disappears as deep sleep. The three states are one in essence and that essence is consciousness. The consciousness (soul) is the innermost self. On the standpoint of the innermost self the three states are illusory.
    Thus experiencing the birth, life, death and the world within the illusion (waking or universe) with the illusory self (waking entity or ego), within the illusory experience (waking), has to be illusion.
    The experience of birth, life, death and the world are mere illusion. The illusion is created, and sustained, and finally dissolves as consciousness, which is the innermost Self. Since, there is no second thing other than the consciousness (soul); the consciousness itself is ultimate truth or Brahman. The one who has realized this truth for him this illusion is passing show because he is fully aware of the fact that his body, his ego and his experience of the world to be consciousness. Practical peoples approach is more practical, and they are stuck with the reality of the practical life within the practical world, they take it as real whereas Gnani sees his body his ego and his experience of the world as consciousness. –FORMLESS PATH

    
    

    19 hours ago ·
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    Ashwani Kumar Dhir But the point is who is experiencing this? And who is teaching to whom?
    

    19 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar Where is the experience and experiencer in reality . The experience and experiencer are one in essence. That essence is consciousness. There is no second thing exist other than the consciousness. Thus consciousness alone is real and all else is mere illusion created out of consciousness.
    

    18 hours ago ·
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    Ashwani Kumar Dhir These discussions are being done by us both or some one else?
    

    18 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    When i ,you and others and the whole world with all its contents are one in essence. That essence is consciousness(soul), the innermost self . The innermost self is god. consciousness pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states thus consciousness(god) is not limited form,time and space. The discussion is reality within the illusion. If the same discussion was taken place within the dream , the dream becomes unreal when the waking takes place. Similarly we are discussing within the waking experience. The waking becomes unreal when the wisdom dawns. wisdom dawns when the waking entity (YOU) realizes the self is neither the waking entity nor the self is dream entity but the self is formless witness(soul or consciousness) of the three states. the three states are one in essence.

    
    

    18 hours ago ·
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    Ashwani Kumar Dhir You mean in us resides the same consciousness then how come the difference in thinking we have? Does it not show we are different in thinking?
    

    18 hours ago ·
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    Santthosh Kumaar
    

    If you ask the same question in dream the dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. in a dream you have met many people with diff rent thinking but the whole dream disappeared along with dream people and the dream world. The self remained without the waking body and waking world in deep sleep. thus one has to know what is it tat becomes the whole waking experience , what is it that becomes the whole dream experience and what is it that becomes deep sleep to unfold the mystery of the mind or universe and realize the fact that universe in which I and YOU and others exists is mere illusion. if universe is mere illusion than the birth,life,death which takes place within the universe is mere illusion.

    
    

    18 hours ago ·
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Adyatmic discussion (Self is not the brain) -208

Ashwani Kumar Dhir Yes, eyes are only to forward the information but brain is required to preceive consciousness based on the information. A.K.Dhir.

about an hour ago ·

Santthosh Kumaar Self is not brain (body). Soul is in the form of consciousness. Consciousness is the innermost self. The body and the world are one in essence and that essence is consciousness. When self is not the body than what is the use of thinking of the brain ,which is within the body.

Science:-

Why You Are Not Your Brain, and Other Lessons from the Biology of Consciousness
by :Alva Noë. Hill and Wang, 2009

Alva No, a University of California, Berkeley, philosopher and cognitive scientist, argues that after decades of concerted effort on the part of neuroscientists, psychologists and philosophers "only one proposition about how the brain makes us conscious ... has emerged unchallenged: we don't have a clue." The reason we have been unable to explain the neural basis of consciousness, he says, is that it does not take place in the brain. Consciousness is not something that happens inside us but something we achieve it is more like dancing than it is like the digestive process. To understand consciousness the fact that we think and feel and that a world shows up for us we need to look at a larger system of which the brain is only one element. Consciousness requires the joint operation of brain, body and world. "You are not your brain. The brain, rather, is part of what you are."
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If the brain is not the self then what is self.

The soul or consciousness, the innermost self is the witness-consciousness that experiences the action, the actor, and the world of separate things. It is like a light that illuminates everything in a theater, revealing the master of ceremonies, the guests, and the dancers with complete impartiality. Even when they all depart, the light shines to reveal their absence.a few seconds ago ·

• Ashwani Kumar Dhir Take the example of a child just born. That has self in it but not the consciousness & awareness in it. Although that has brain in it. A.K.Dhir.
  

  about an hour ago ·
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  Santthosh Kumaar
  

  When the self is birthless than the question of birth,life death and the world does not arise. The one which is born,lives ,dies within the world is not the self because the self is ever formless. The self is that ,which witnesses the experience of birth,life,death and the world (waking)without the physical apparatus. Thus it is necessary to realize the self is nothing to do with the experience of birth,life,death and the world, because it is ever formless.

  
  

  about an hour ago ·
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  Ashwani Kumar Dhir Yes, self is birthless but not the creatures. If creatures are not there then self also has no value. As self attains a shape for reformation cycle. A.K.Dhir.
  

  about an hour ago ·
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  Ashwani Kumar Dhir Just as the numerals from 1 to 9 if these are not present then what is value of zero? A.K.Dhir.
  

  about an hour ago ·
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  Santthosh Kumaar
  

  Where is the creature when the matter and the spirit(consciousness) are one in essence. only on the standpoint of the ego(false self ) there is duality but on the standpoint of the soul or consciousness, the innermost self , there is no second thing exists other than consciousness. For a Gnani the body is not a body ,ego is not ego the world is not world because he is fully aware of the fact that they are mere mirage created out of consciousness. when body and the world are one in essence than what value of body and the world. Only the essence will prevail as ultimate reality or Brahman.

  
  

  23 minutes ago ·

Ashwani Kumar Dhir Yes, zero will prevail without other numericals. In the same way Essence will be there without existence of wordly objects. But objects are for sure but not as a mirage. A.K.Dhir.

7 minutes ago ·

Santthosh Kumaar

World is both real and unreal. It is real because it is a manifestation of consciousness, but is unreal, in the sense, that it is not absolute and eternal like consciousness itself.
Peoples approach is more practical, and they stuck with the reality of the world, they take it as real. That is why all the confusion.

The person, who stamped their foot on the ground to refute to show the world, is real, ignore that in dream he would do exactly the same--stamp his dream foot on the ground and assert it to be real.

2 minutes ago ·

Neither by the practice of yoga nor philosophy, nor by good works nor by learning, does liberation come, but only through the realization that Atman and Brahman are one in no other way.

Sankara says:- Neither by the practice of yoga nor philosophy, nor by good works nor by learning, does liberation come, but only through the realization that Atman and Brahman are one in no other way.(1) VivekaChudamani v 56, pg 25

Sri, Sankara goes on to say:- A sickness of not cured by saying the word “medicine.” You must take the medicine. Liberation does not come by merely saying the word “Brahman.” Brahman must be experienced. Until you allow this apparent universe to dissolve from your consciousness, until you have experienced Brahman, how can you find liberation just by saying the word Brahman? The result is merely a noise. Until a man has destroyed his enemies and taken possession of the splendour and wealth of the kingdom, he cannot become a king by simply saying “I am a king.”

A buried treasure is not uncovered by merely uttering the words: “Come forth.” You must follow the right directions, dig, remove the stones and earth from above it, and then make it your own. In the same way, the pure truth of the Atman, which is buried under Maya and the effects of Maya, can be reached by meditation, contemplation, and other spiritual disciplines but never by subtle arguments. (2)
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What is the use of doing meditation on the base of waking entity, which is false self within the false experience? Meditation is not the means to Self –Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. Meditation is not the goal itself because it practiced on the base false self within the false experience.

Wisdom dawns only when ignorance vanishes. Ignorance vanishes only when the waking entity (ego) becomes aware of the fact that, it itself is not the self. Thus by practicing meditation on the false self within the false experience is like try to catch fish in desert sand. --FORMLESS PATH

One must first know what is before him. If he cannot know that, what else can he know or understand? If he gives up the external world in his inquiry, he cannot get the whole truth.

Consciousness is in everyone, consciousness is in everything .consciousness is one behind many. Consciousness alone is. It means the universe is the visible form of consciousness.

What is the use of doing meditation on the base of waking entity, which is false self within the false experience? Meditation is not the means to Self –Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana .

Meditation is not the goal itself. Meditation  is an important and useful tool to quiet the physical  mind  or ego and emotions and allow one to enter a deep and quiet state of self. Once the turbulent tendencies of the physical mind or ego and emotions are brought into harmony, clarity and renewed strength are available to meet and overcome each life challenge as it presents itself. Meditation will not eliminate our life challenges but can enable us to harmonize our body, mind, emotions and spirit and to focus that energy like a powerful beam of light on the challenges that lie ahead in worldly life.

Most of the dualistic sages approach was more practical, and they stuck with the reality of the world, they took it as real. Whereas Sri, Sankara says: One must first know what is before him. If he cannot know that, what else can he know or understand? If he gives up the external world in his inquiry, he cannot get the whole truth.

Sri, Sankara says in Viveka Chudamani:- 63. Without causing the objective universe to vanish and without knowing the truth of the Self, how is one to achieve Liberation by the mere utterance of the word Brahman? — It would result merely in an effort of speech.

Yoga Vasishta, says: - that the world is both real and unreal. It is real because it is a manifestation of consciousness, but is unreal, in the sense, that it is not absolute and eternal like consciousness itself.

--FORMLESS PATH

What is ‘I’? The ‘I’ disappears in deep sleep, so what is the use of being attached to it? It is illusory.

A true seeker is not content with the spiritual knowledge based on hearsay…. He insists s on direct realization of ultimate truth or Brahman.  

In beginning stages of pursuit of truth a fundamental difficulty which is faced by the seeker of truth is to make sure whether belief in God and all religious propagated idea of heaven, hell, sin, karma, rebirth and reincarnation are true or false.   It is very difficult to accept belief in God and all religious propagated idea of heaven, hell, sin, karma, rebirth and reincarnation are falsehood because of the inherited conditioning of parental grooming and societal restrictions.   Religious believers are more interested in God and God’s working in the universe but for the atheist refuse to accept such idea of existence of God and all the religious dogmatic ideas. 

Seeker of truth is more interested in knowing the truth of his true existence because individualized GOD’s existence is dependent on his existence.  Without his existence the universe ceases to exist. Therefore he is more interested in realizing the truth of his true existence in order to unfold the mystery of the universe in which he exists.     

  

Brahman means ultimate truth. Oneness is nature of Brahman.  The soul is the innermost self. The soul is present in the form of consciousness.  Nature of the consciousness is one ness. 

In scriptures one will find many way to realize Brahman but after getting all the information about all the path one has to begin to investigate, in order to realize the ultimate truth or Brahman cannot be realized through scriptures, religion or god or guru glorification because the ultimate truth or Brahman is beyond form, time and space whereas man and his experience of the world his religion, his belief of God are within the scope of form, time and space.  From ultimate standpoint form, time and space are illusion because they are one in essence. 

Seeker has to indulge in deeper self-search.  It is very difficult to accept the scriptures reveal the truth. How does one know that the scriptures reveal the truth? How does one know that the sage, who may be a perfectly truthful man, speaks the Ultimate Truth? How does one know that he is not mistaken?

One must indulge in deeper self-search and then he will be able to judge 'what is what' .

Whoever begins with the question "Who Am I” inquiry falls into the physical trap?  The point is, how does this question arise at all.  

Seeker must start with the universe first and then only after the question "What is the world" is answered should one deal with the question "what is this body ".

 This is the natural order of inquiry because unprejudiced minds always begin with asking about the world confronting him first.

What is ‘I’? The ‘I’ disappears in deep sleep, so what is the use of being attached to it? It is illusory. 

 

There is really no ‘I’. It dies in deep sleep. But the notion of its unreality will gradually grasped by the serious and receptive seekers. Individuality is illusory. 

One is ignorant of the fact that the ‘I’  or mind comes and goes as waking or dream and has no permanent existence, is only a mirage after all.

Scriptures prescribe many way to find Brahman but they are mere information. After verifying all the information one will not find Brahman in of these.  One will never succeeds in realizing the ultimate truth unless his soul, the innermost self becomes restless for acquiring the ultimate truth of Brahman.  One must begin to do his own home work without the scriptures, only then it is possible to acquire Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.