Reinhard Stammer I think, that the silence apearce, when there is no me and then the you cannot disturb my mind whether there is loudness or silence ;-)June 29 at 2:43am ·
Pri Ya Salience is effortless; the seeker who asks Who am I? is the effort itself. It takes effort to reach the effortless.
June 29 at 3:06am ·
Christy Pfeifer It's not a question how silence is, but to keep quiet ...and what is needed to be revealed will simply happen ♥
June 29 at 3:11am ·
Christy Pfeifer Reinhard..Silence is the backround of all What IS, you have not to join It.This is a good quote, nevertheless words are only concepts and a pointer to Truth.
June 29 at 3:17am ·
Ken Butler Can you ask the question without presupposing there is an answer?
June 29 at 7:03pm · · 1 person
Christy Pfeifer The answer will come from the mind..so really there is none.
June 30 at 1:15am · · 1 person
Mark Hunton Anyone can be a Parrot, repeat something they read in a book. Boring
July 2 at 10:24am · · 1 person
Pavlos Dolatzoglou
Somewhere in Nothern America, near the mountains and in the forrest, a community made preparations for the near winter. They brought wood to the sawmill, but they weren`t sure how much they would need. One of them heard, that up in the moun...See More
July 2 at 5:44pm · · 1 person
Reinhard Stammer Hi Christy, thats what I meant. Excuse my bad english. It is not necessary to find a silent place. The calmness is oneself. The buddhist monks in Kyoto overthought to find a more silent place, when Kyoto grows up, but the Zen master said that you are the silence by itself and if that is so nothing can disturb you.
July 4 at 10:21pm · · 1 person
Pri Ya That's very wise and true. Sri Papaji used to say that you only need meditate in the forest as long as the seeker is there; knowing you are peace itself you can meditate in the fish market; You are meditation: you are salience that is your true nature: to doubt it is mind itself and mind is not real: like ribhu Gita says: ever unreal :
July 4 at 10:46pm · · 2 people
Kip Glenn Lambel
If we are honest in our search for "who am I?", then we notice that every answer that arises is an idea. Each idea that arises is a limitation of sorts, and we can easily see beyond the limitation so the idea is seen to be false. Each and e...See More
July 5 at 2:48am · · 1 person
Santthosh Kumaar
This is from one of my blogs:-[ Seeker of truth has to go much deeper and beyond “WHO AM I?, to reach the non-dual destination.] There is no vessel to ferry man across the ocean of worldliness except Gnana. But what is Gnana? Gnana is the full and firm realization of the self – a realization beyond all doubt, confusion, change and contradiction.
The Gnana will not dawn -neither by control of mind or breath, nor by karma or action, neither by devotion to conceptual god, nor by rituals and penance, nor pilgrimaging nor by surrendering to physical guru nor by glorifying god men, Because all these are part of the ignorance. Whatever is related to sense of ‘I’ is ignorance.
The Gnana dawns only when the self, wakes up to its formless nondual nature and comes out of the sense of the sense of ‘I’ by realizing ‘I’, which is mind is mere mirage.
The self is ‘I’-less, formless, deathless existence. One has to inquiry in to truth carried on with deeper reasoning, is the chief means of attaining the self-Knowledge. One pointed deeper self –search, receptiveness, sharpness to grasp the truth, inner urge and humility are necessary to attain truth. If a seeker enters upon the life of deeper thinking with all these necessary equipment, he will certainly reach the nondual destination. Gnana or wisdom is the result of contemplation; it annihilates the ignorance. Until one reaches the climax of Gnana or wisdom he cannot be said to have attained the firm realization of the self.
Sri, Ramana Maharshi’s teaching is helpful to the seeker to remove many obstacles in the pursuit of truth but seeker of truth has to go much deeper and beyond “WHO AM I?, to reach the non-dual destination.
“Arise, awake; and understand the supreme Goal” [Kathopanisad]
Sri, Ramana Maharishi said: scriptural knowledge is conceptual divisions invented by teachers of philosophy by their excessive analysis. Where do all these concepts end? Why should confusion created and then explained away? Fortunate is the man who does not lose himself in the labyrinths of philosophy, but goes straight to the source from which they all arise.
Ramana Maharishi indicated the direct path to the truth, is the source from which the false arises. Thus the source is the soul/ Ataman, which is the true self. Ataman itself is Brahman. Thus it is necessary to view the worldview on the base of the source, which the true self, and formless substance and witness of the experience of diversity. Thus deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the true base, one can acquire the self –knowledge in lesser time and effort. The unity in diversity is possible only through self-knowledge not by mastering the scriptural knowledge.
Ramana Maharishi says: this self –inquiry is not the critical study of the scriptures. When the source is reached the ego gets merged into it. The result of self-inquiry is the cure for all the sorrows. It is the highest of all the results. There is nothing greater then it. It only indicates there is no necessity to study the scriptures to acquire self-knowledge. [Page-66-practicle guide to know yourself c/e by A.R.N].
Ramana Maharishi says:
Q by D:- Is not necessary to study the Vedas or at least the Prasthanatraya [the Bhagavad Gita,Dasopanishad and Brahma Sutras, all with commentaries]to ensure firm realization?
Ramana Maharishi:-No. Do you need all that to see yourself? All that is intellectual wealth, useful in explain doubts and difficulties if others rise them or if you yourself encounter them in the course of thinking. But to attain realization, all that is not necessary. You want fresh water to drink, but you do not require all the water of the river Ganges to quench your thirst. [Page 111/112 of Practical guide to know yourself c/e by A.R.N].
This surely indicates Sri, Ramana Maharishi’s path is independent path nothing to with the religion and scriptures.
I have the highest reverence for Sri, Ramana Maharishi a sage of highest order.
As one goes deeper in self- search he becomes aware of the fact that, the Sri, Raman Maharishi’s Self-inquiry is not enough to reach the nondual destination.
In my deeper self-search I became aware the Self-Inquiry prescribed by Sri, Ramana Maharishi is inadequate to reach the ultimate end. This is because he might have prescribed it to the beginners and as they go deep enough they will work it on their own. Most of his followers are of the orthodox back ground.
Sri, Ramana Maharshi’s teachings are very valuable for seeking world. But serious seekers have to move much deeper and beyond Who am ‘I’? , to realize the ‘I’ itself is illusion.
Pursuit of truth starts from inquiring “Who am ‘I’? but wisdom dawns only by knowing the mind, which is in the form of universe and the self ,which is in the form of consciousness. Who am ‘I’ inquiry helps to unfold half-truth. To leave out one of these parts is to prevent attainment of non-dual wisdom.
"Who am I” is useful no doubt, it has certainly a value in its place, and gives some knowledge of self as the Witness, but what about the witnessed? The universe still faces us. It must also be looked at. If the universe is ignored, then "Who am I” cannot give the full truth. It is the yogic enquiry; not the spiritualistic; the latter deals with the whole of life whereas the former deals with a part only.
"Who am I" is dualistic, because there, is no person in the realm of truth but only in the illusion the ‘I’ exists. . It should be "What is “I”?" To meditate on the formula “What am I?" can only yield the thought 'I'. I never cease even after long years of practice of “Who am I?” inquiry. The question "Who am I” is an egocentric, not a soul-centric question. It is a based on the physical self. It is on a par with "What shall I be after death?" and "What shall I get if I do good deed in this life?" It is purely ego-cantered: it is an appeal to the interest in egoistic only. Only the soul-centric -minded can lift their thoughts above ego and inquire;-What is this mind? "What is the universe?" “What is the substance of the mind?
All the experiences of the three states put together make the Atman[self], not merely the ego questioning itself ''Who am I.”
Meditation on the whole is the best meditation: meditation on the parts is only steps towards that. The first thing that one sees is the world. The yogis and religionist disregard this in order to think of self because they are unaware of the fact that self is not the ‘I’. They think ‘I’ is the true self and they continue their spiritual pursuit without verifying what ‘I’ is?. The deeper inquiry analysis reveals the fact that, ‘I’ is not the self, but ‘I’ is mind and mind is the universe, which appears as whole waking experience of dream. Thus, people who limit the ‘I’ to the physical entity or ego will never be able to reach their non-dual destination.
Those who jump at once to Atman disregarding the world are yogis or religionists, not seekers of truth. If one don’t see the world, it does not mean he have wisdom. One who looks at objects alone, at the external world, he is wholly ignorant. But he who is able to witness his body and the world together without the physical apparatus is a Gnani.
We have to analyse both mind and its source to get at truth. Two things are necessary in pursuit of truth:-
(1) Knowledge of the object [mind or universe]
(2) Knowledge of the subject [true self].
When one begins inquiry he does it to please himself, not for truth; hence he asks "Who am I?" It is an elementary stage of discipline because ego-bound but aiming at loosening ego. But one has to become aware of the fact that, the body, ego and universe appear together and they disappear together. Therefore just trying to get rid of the ego alone is impossibility.
Those seekers who inquire “Who am I?" may succeed in finding the common factor in all ‘I’s, the I-ness but they have to come back afterwards to the world or duality. Their task is incomplete. They do not know the world also is consciousness.
"What is ‘I’? is " a spiritualistic interrogation. What is the universe? What is mind? What is the whole? One becomes aware of the fact that ‘I’ is the mind and mind is the universe. After having examined deeply; one becomes aware of the fact that the universe is noting to with self that is the experience of birth, life and death has nothing to do with the self, which is in the form of consciousness. The self is the formless and witness of the universe, which is in the form of ‘I’, which comes and goes as waking or dream. The self is the one witness in all and are really ever free. Therefore there is a need to become aware of the fact that ‘I’ is not the self but the formless substance and witness of the ‘I’ is the true self.
When the self is not the body then the inquiry will not go further, it stops there because self is formless, but just by knowing the self is formless the sense of ‘I’ will not vanish. The sense of ‘I’ will prevail. Until sense of ‘I’ prevails, the ignorance prevails. Until ignorance is there, duality is there. Until duality there, the illusion is there. Until illusion is there, the unreality will be experienced as reality. Thus one has to think beyond “Who am “I”? in order to realize Brahman or ultimate truth.
People find self-inquiry is difficult and drop it without going deeper enough.
I admire David Goodman who has done deeper research on Sri, Ramana Maharishi and contributed much information about Sri, Raman Maharishi and Papaji to seeking world :-
In an Interview with David Godman by Rob Sacks:-
It's fashionable nowadays to be very positive about one's spiritual experiences. People like to jump up and down and exclaim, "I'm free! I'm free!" I prefer the refreshing honesty of a devotee, Sivaprakasam Pillai, who, after fifty years of being with Sri Ramana, was still lamenting about his faults and his lack of progress. This is the person who first got Bhagavan to record his teachings on self-enquiry in 1901. I admired his honesty, his humility and his integrity in admitting that he still couldn't control his mind. [An Interview with David Godman by Rob Sacks for Realization.org Page 1]
This proves that even after long years practice of self-inquiry a sincere and serious devotee like Sri, Sivapraksam Pillai, who, after fifty years of being with Sri Ramana, was still lamenting about his faults and his lack of progress. Thus with the practice of self- inquiry, it is difficult to reach the ultimate end. Thus one has to find out on his own what is blocking his realization and remove the blockades on his own.
And also in that interview:-
RS: I often wonder whether Westerners misunderstand Ramana Maharshi. What are the most common misconceptions about his teachings?
DG: I am not sure how much understanding there is of Ramana Maharshi and his teachings in the West. He is an iconic figure to a vast number of people who are following some sort of spiritual path. I think that for many people he epitomizes all that is best in the Hindu Guru tradition, but having said that, I think that very few people know much about him, and even fewer have a good grasp of his teachings. Not many people read books about him nowadays � I know that from trying to sell my own �and even fewer would profess themselves to be his devotee. I find there is very little interest in his teachings even among the people who come to visit Ramanasramam. Nowadays, many of the people who come are spiritual tourists, pilgrims who just travel round India, checking out all the various ashrams and teachers.About twenty years ago I met a foreigner here who had come to the ashram for advice on how to do self-inquiry properly. For several days he couldn't find anyone who was practicing it, even in Ramanasramam. The people he asked in the ashram office just told him to buy the ashram's publications and find out from them how to do it. Eventually, he had what he thought was a bright idea. He stood outside the door of the meditation hall at Ramanasramam, the place where Sri Ramana lived for over twenty years, and asked everyone who came out how to do self-inquiry. It transpired that none of the people inside were doing self-inquiry. They came out one by one and said, "I was doing japa," or "I was doing vipassana," or "I was doing Tibetan visualizations."
How can there be misunderstandings among people who have never even bothered to find out the teachings in the first place, or put them into practice?
[An Interview with David Godman by Rob Sacks for Realization.org Page 2]
Until the seeker is serious and sincere in pursuit of truth it is difficult to reach the ultimate end. Seeker has to find what is blocking his realization even after many years of practice of self-inquiry and find out the reason for what is blocking his realization of the self.
One has to find answers for all the doubts and confusion in Sri, Ramana Maharishi's "Who Am I? inquiry
If mind is same as Atman, how can it vanish? How can Atman vanish? [Page 4 Para. 3]
Ramana Mahrshi says: - "Whenever any thought leads you outward" etc. What can you be certain of when you leave the external world? And why leave the world if you say everything is Brahman? [Page 6 –middle]
Mind ceases to struggle" Yes, if I commit suicide I shall also cease to struggle! How can you say the world ceases to exist if you don't look at it? [Page 6]
Who has seen the subtle mind projecting through the brain and the senses? Can you see it? Is not brain also a piece of gross matter? Then how can it come into existence after the world is created, if latter, depends on brain. [Page 6 last Para]
How can you say the world vanishes when you are introspected? The world is still there; whether you see it or not. [Page 7 top]
Heart is an idea created by mind, so how can Mind emerge from it? [Page 7 Line 4]
"One should unquestioningly follow guru"--This is the very reverse of what Sri Ramakrishna taught. What if the guru happens to be a fool or a rascal? Sri Ramakrishna said "Test me![ Page 11, Para 2]
"In deep sleep, trance, swoon, mind turns inwards and enjoys atmasukam." Why should any man study or inquire or practice if in sleep he can easily get the Atman? If sleep gives Brahman why trouble with Vedanta? [Page 12: middle]
Page 16 middle: "If this truth is appreciated who can refrain from being good?" This is opposite of real Vedanta. Vedanta says it is not enough to be good, you must serve the world and relieve suffering. [Page 16 middle]
Page 16 last para. Is the vanishing of ego to be the end of life? [Page 16 last para]
Only after one finds answers for all above doubts and able to clear all his doubts he will be able to move forward in his pursuit of truth.
EGO, I must indeed go but thou must come one must know Brahman is everywhere. It is only half to say ego must vanish. This is only a step, not highest.
One must realize everything is consciousness. Sri, Ramana Maharishi's teaching is most useful in elementary stages in pursuit of truth, but one has to do his own home work to reach the ultimate end.
2
Self -inquiry prescribed by Sri,Raman Mahrshi is a good tool in the beginning of the pursuit of truth. But seeker will find it inadequate to in latter stages. However, it creates lots of doubts and confusion. The seeker has to find the answers on his own through deeper reasoning, then all his doubts and confusions will be cleared, and he will be able to move ahead in the path of inquiry, and he will be able to reach his nondual destination.
The doubts and confusion in Self-Inquiry:-
The seeker has to overcome the doubts and confusion in in later stages in self-inquiry, the seeker finds some doubts and confusion, which cannot be overcome if inquiry practiced on the present format prescribed in self-inquiry book. As per my personal research the self-inquiry in the present format will not yield any fruits.
If mind is same as Ataman, how can it vanish--when the mind appears and disappears as Waking or dream?
How can one be certain when one leave the external world--when the person is within the world?
Why leave the external world when everything is Brahman---when everything is Brahman why crate division between the world and its perceiver?
How can the world alone cease to exist if one does not look at it—how can the person remain without the world and where he will exist without the world?
Who has the subtle mind projecting through brain and senses? How can one see his subtle mind?--when the brain also piece of the gross matter? ---then how can the brain come into existence after the world is created if the later depends on the brain.
Heart is idea created by mind, how the mind can emerge from it---when the heart disappear along with the mind and reappears along with the mind, how the mind emerge from it.
In deep sleep, swoon and trance, the mind turns inwards and enjoys its natural state--if so why should one inquire if one gets Ataman in sleep. With drug one can get sleep and peace or bliss. If sleep gives Brahman then why trouble with inquiry--better get it through sleeping pills or ganja.
There are many seekers practicing inquiry for many years and waiting for something mystical to happen, why nothing happens and why their inquiry does not yield fruits.
Since Sri, Ramana Maharishi is not present physically to guide us, seeker to overcome these obstacles in the path of inquiry on his own.
In the waking or dream, the objects of experience like sound, touch etc. are varied and different from each other. The one which is aware of the coming and going of the waking or dream is apart from them. The one which is aware of them is consciousness. Thus the experience of diversity [waking or dream] is created out of single stuff, which is consciousness. Thus everything in diversity [waking or dream] is mere mirage created out of consciousness. Thus the form and names within the duality [waking or dream] has no value therefore, everything is one without the division of forms and names.
Man experiences the world within the waking or dream. The world is reality for man within the world. The man and world are unreality for the formless witness of the three states, which is also the formless substance of the three states. Thus the individual experiences such as birth, life, death and the world or pain and pleasure are mere illusion from the ultimate standpoint. Thus basing on the waking entity and judging the truth is erroneous, because the self is neither the waking entity not the dream entity but the self is the formless witness of all the three states.
Thus 'I' and 'I Am' which is limited to the waking experience or dream is not the self, because the consciousness which is the true self pervades all the three states as their formless substance and witness. Thus, all the sense organs belong to the physical entity. And physical entity is reality within the waking experience, but the waking experience itself is unreal from the ultimate standpoint.
The difference within waking or dream does not affect their formless witness in any way. Within the waking or dream the objects may be different from each other. But there is a single witness of them all because the witness witnesses the waking or dream as a whole.
When one says 'I hear', 'I touch', 'I see', etc. the hearing, touching and seeing are experiences within the waking or dream. But all these are experiences experienced by the false self within the false experience, because within the waking or dream the physical apparatus is considered as self, whereas the true self has no physical apparatus. Thus all the experiences are falsehood.
The three states are an object to the subject, which is consciousness. The objects are also different. But the 'consciousness ' that knows them all one and the same in and through all the experiences. Only within the waking or dream one is able to know distinctions like form, time and space and pain and pleasure, etc. But the knower is undivided and undifferentiated in and through all the experiences of the three states.
Formless knower [witness] is not differentiated from the known. It is because the knower and the known are one and the same. Since the experiences are varied when do we know the formless knower, to be undifferentiated?
When self is mentally separated from the three states after realizing the subject object relation. The Consciousness is hidden within the three states as their form less substance. Consciousness is apart from the three states as their formless witness. It is apart because it is neither the waking entity not it is the dream entity but the formless witness of all the three states.
When the three states, which are mere object to the formless subject is dropped mentally, then the Consciousness alone prevails in its formless nondual true nature.
It is just like one and the same water becoming snow, and cloud. The substance is one and the same. If it is not cloud or snow it remains as water. In the same way, without the three states consciousness alone prevails because all the three states are mere mirage created out of consciousness.
The three states come and go in succession but the knowing principle, the Awareness, remains one and the same in all the three states. The formless, witness, who is in the form of consciousness, remains same through all the experiences.
The dream is parallel waking and waking is parallel dream. The formless knower that knows the coming and going of the three states is one. Thus on the base of the formless knower, the three states are mere mirage. When the mirage is mentally dropped after realization of their unreal nature, than the duality will never be experienced as reality again.
The unreal nature of the experience of form, space, time & objects within the dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. The reality of the unreal nature of form time and space of the waking experience is exposed, when the waking entity becomes aware of the fact that, it itself is not the self, but the true self is that which sees all the three states without the physical apparatus as passing show.
The form, time and space are reality within the waking or dream. But from the standpoint of the formless source, from where waking or dream arise and subside the three states are non-existent. The formless source is consciousness. The consciousness is the true self. Waking or dream or mere mirage created out of the consciousness. The nature of the Consciousness is oneness. Thus, the waking or dream not differs from each other because they are mere mirage created out of consciousness. Thus they are both are one in essence.
The witness, the Consciousness, in the waking is not different from the one in the dream. The waking objects are varied but their witness is one and the same. The dream objects are varied but their witness is one and the same. In other words the witness of the waking and the dream is one and the same.
In deep sleep state there is a continuity of the Consciousness. In the deep sleep state, the witness is in its formless nondual true nature, that is, it is in self-awareness. In waking or dream it is ignorant of its true nature. Thus there is emptiness in the deep sleep. This cognition is recollected by when it is again enters in to state of ignorance and wakes up as waking or. Dream entity .thus it is erroneous to view and judge the worldview on the waking entity because the witness is present in all the three states.
To overcome all the doubts and confusions, one has to mentally trace the existence of the formless witness, which sees all the three states, which comes and goes in succession. Without that witness the three states are non-existent because it is also the formless substance of the three states. When the waking entity becomes aware of the fact that, it is not the self but the self is the witness of the three states in the midst of waking experience, then the form, time and space within the waking experience ceases to be real. Thus the waking entity realizes the fact that, form, time and space are mere division created out of consciousness. Thus the form, time and space are mere mirage created out of consciousness. Thus there is no division in consciousness. The divisions are mere mirage without the division there is only oneness.
The confusion arises when one says, 'During deep sleep there was neither waking nor dream. The whole waking or dream experiences were absent. But the formless witness was present. The witness was present without the waking or dream. In waking it was witnessing the waking as whole and in dream it was witnessing the dream as whole. The individual happenings within the waking or dream are nothing to do with the formless witness. Thus judging the truth on the base of individual happening within the waking or dream is erroneous, because the witness is neither the waking entity nor the dream entity but the one that witnesses the waking or dream as a whole without the physical apparatus.
Man experiences the world within the waking or dream. The dream is an experience. Similarly the waking also is an experience. The dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. The waking and dream becomes unreal in deep sleep. The one which is aware of the three states is hidden within the three states but it is without the three states. It is hidden within the three states as their formless substance and it is without the three states as their formless witness. Thus mentally tracing the formless substance and witness of the three states is necessary, in order to realize the substance and witness are one in essence. And that essence is consciousness.
Thus it is very necessary to investigate “What is it that, becomes waking or dream?” and “What is it that becomes deep sleep?” rather than finding answers for the meaning of life or inquiring “Who am I?”, What am I?’, “Whence am I?” which are helpful only in preliminary stages in pursuit of truth.
The pursuit of truth is to know the truth of the whole not the part. Birth, life and death takes place within the world. The world is reality within the waking experience but the waking experience itself is mere mirage. By knowing and realizing, with what this mirage, which is in the form of mind or universe came into existence; one becomes aware of the ultimate truth, which consciousness. Thus consciousness alone is real and all else [universe or mind] is false created out of consciousness.
July 6 at 9:03am ·
Dilip Desai Nisargadatta Maharaj is reported to have said " You can never truly know what you are , but it is enough if you know what you are NOT "
July 15 at 5:06pm · · 3 people
Santthosh Kumaar
Until one has the conviction that, he is an individual separate from the universe and he is born in this universe and universe existed prior to him it is difficult to realize what is truth and what is not truth. But as one indulges in deeper self search he becomes aware of the fact that the physical existence is mere mirage created out of consciousness. in physical existence man limits the self to physical entity whereas in the realm of truth the self pervades all the three states as their formless substance and witness. That formless substance is consciousness. Thus consciousness is the true self. thus our judgment has to based on the true self , not on the waking entity[ego],which is the false self. only than we will have the yardstick to know 'what is truth?' 'what is untruth?' without knowing what is untruth it is very difficult to know 'what is truth. That is why BUDDHA SAID: - Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.
July 15 at 8:33pm · · 1 person
Santthosh Kumaar
The Answer for 'WHO AM 'I' ? is not keeping silence in duality but to trace the source of mind from where it rises and subsides from and into. By knowing the source of the mind one becomes aware of the fact that, the source is the soul,which is in form of consciousness,which is the true self. The nature of the soul is formless non-dual silence. the WHO AM 'I' ? and I AM THAT are most impotent stages in pursuit of truth. the wisdom will not dawn in this stages. seeker has to go much deeper in their self search to understand ,assimilate and realize the non dual truth to reach the non dual destination of ultimate truth or state of Brahman. since it is very personal journey one has to drop all the accumulated knowledge and without mental spoon feeding one has to use his own discrimination and reach the inner core of his true existence. that is why Upanishads itself declares:- sarvam khalvidam brahma - all this (universe) is verily Brahman. By following back all of the relative appearances in the world, we eventually return to that from which it is all manifest – the non-dual reality [ Chandogya Upanishad]. By adopting WHO AM I and I AM that only half journey is completed,which is only intellectual understanding based on physicality. That is why Upanishds say :- They alone in this world are endowed with the highest wisdom who are firm in their conviction of the sameness and birthlessness of Ataman. The ordinary man does not understand their way. [Chapter IV — Alatasanti Prakarana 95-P-188 in Upanishads by Nikilanada]. COMMON people and primitive minds fall into faulty thinking through their inherited conditioning , such faulty thinking and reasoning makes them accept the experience of birth, life and death as reality ; taking what one sees through the senses as real, taking what is apparent obvious and superficial as true because it is less troublesome.
Many People adopt the attitude that what they know is truth. And what others say is false. This attitude makes them not to verify anything other then what they know. One needs to be rational, not merely logical. Logic is has its value only in physical plane.
As one advances towards spiritual plane he sees the logic underlying experience and becomes more rational. His reasoning is two-fold--implicit and explicit.
There is a need of facts of physical proof in scientific invention, whereas in pursuit of truth the proof has to be grasped mentally and realized. Therefore, the truth is realized only by few who take this mental pursuit. “Whatever facts revealed, which is un-contradictable has to be accepted as truth.
The truth based on the formless soul/self is worthwhile; without it, one has something else, not truth. Most people refuse to venture into pursuit of truth; because they do not want to go into the root of things.
Until one gets firm conviction of the ultimate truth he has to constantly reflect on the nature of the true self, till he achieves the equilibrium. Thus renouncing the worldly life is not necessary in order to acquire non-dual wisdom.
This universe is but a state of ignorance. In reality universe is nothing but illusion created out of consciousness. The existent and non-existent of forms, name and things do not lose their inherent nature. The consciousness self-existing, which knows both existence and non-existence, never ceases to be because it is cause of the illusion and it itself is uncaused.
The nature of the consciousness, which is the true self, is free from mental contents [three states], effortless, immutable, and spotless is neither far way nor near but ever present in all the three states as their formless substance and witness. When the formless substance and witness are one in essence the three states are mere mirage created out of that formless essence.
The universe exists because of consciousness. The moment the ignorance vanishes the universe with all its contents becomes unreal. Thus realizing the unreal nature of the universe or waking experience in the midst waking experience leads to self-awareness. Self-awareness frees one from experiencing the waking experience as reality. The non-dual silence is found only in self awareness. The people in path of yoga think observing silence in waking experience[duality] is the answer for WHO AM I ? . but that answer is erroneous because the waking experience itself is mere mirage from the ultimate standpoint. thus whatever seen ,known and believed and experienced as a person of the world within the waking experience is bound to be falsehood. the wisdom will not by mere intellectual speculation or arguments but by deeper self-search and sound discrimination through reason based on the true self.
July 16 at 6:01am ·
Kip Glenn Lambel You don't have to read every post David Fields
Personally, if somebody can't point to a state of being with just a few words, or quickly direct attention to 'it', I stop listening
8 hours ago ·
Santthosh Kumaar
Dear Kip, I respect your views . deeper self-search revels the fact that, even if one tries to grasp with few words it is impossible to grasp the ultimate truth or Brahman. Until and unless the inborn samsakar or conditioning of 'I' or 'I AM' ,which is deep rooted will not budge. intellectual understating is not realization. one has to remove all mental hindrance ,which is blocking his realization. The ‘I’ OR ‘I AM’ IS CAUSE OF THE INGNORENCE. Thus one has to get rid of the ignorance by overcoming the intoxication of ‘I’ or I AM which intoxication stuff in pursuit of truth is.
That is why Sri, Sankara says in VivekaChudamani :-
61. For one who has been bitten by the serpent of Ignorance, the only remedy is the knowledge of Brahman. Of what avail are the Vedas and (other) Scriptures, Mantras (sacred formulae) and medicines to such a one?
62. A disease does not leave off if one simply utter the name of the medicine, without taking it; (similarly) without direct realisation one cannot be liberated by the mere utterance of the word Brahman.
63. Without causing the objective universe to vanish and without knowing the truth of the Self, how is one to achieve Liberation by the mere utterance of the word Brahman ? — It would result merely in an effort of speech.
64. Without killing one’s enemies, and possessing oneself of the splendour of the entire surrounding region, one cannot claim to be an emperor by merely saying, ‘I am an emperor’.
65. As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a knower of Brahman, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted arguments.
People who are yearning for spiritual truth will not find it through intellectual speculation and assumption. Intellectual truth is individual truth. Love implies duality and love is individual feelings within the falsehood. Love is necessary and valuable in the stated of ignorance but it is not the means to acquire wisdom. Love is religious tool to lead life in practical world. And Religious truth is individual truth and it is not universal truth because the religion is based on individuality. Advaita sages in the past kept the path to self-awareness a secret hidden with many ad-ons and adulteration. thus by mere playing with ornamental words will satisfies only the ego,which is the false self.
7 hours ago · · 1 person
Mark Hunton Santthosh, maybe you can get a job at Baktipur university as a philosophy teacher, then you would have the undivided attention of your students and they might believe all the crap u keep dishing out.
7 hours ago ·
Mark Hunton Then you could put on a robe and tell everyone the truth. Good luck with that!!
7 hours ago ·
Santthosh Kumaar Very kind of you , thank you for your valuable comment. There is neither the body nor the world and nor the people to wish good luck remains as reality when one is aware of what is truth and what is untruth. Only people in ignorance will have such idea of body ,robe and world without realizing their self is naked and it is without their body,ego and experience of the world.
6 hours ago ·
Santthosh Kumaar Thank you for your suggestion. there is neither any teaching nor a teacher nor a need of any disciple , neither one needs any university to one's own self other than verifying the fact s on his own and sharing the views wih those who are in pursuit of truth.
6 hours ago ·
Santthosh Kumaar Thank your kind suggestion . When scriptures itself says truth is beyond all the scriptures than what is use of writing books. The ultimate truth is not marketable commodity, it has to be mentally traced,assimilated and grasped.
6 hours ago ·
Santthosh Kumaar
Very kind of you for your noble advise. The universe[mind] itself is a illusory robe on the true self[soul] ,which is in the form of consciousness. By getting rid ignorance the illusory nature of the robe will be exposed. Only people who are in ignorance will suggest to others to put on such a robe. And until they remain in ignorance they keep on suggesting others because they do not accept anything other than their accepted truth.
6 hours ago ·
Santthosh Kumaar
Thank you noble sage very kind of you to say that. The Dude , life and women are made out of single stuff. That single stuff is formless consciousness, which is inner most self, your true identity is without form,time and space. Until ...See More
3 hours ago ·
Pri Ya Santthosh you are a great schooler yet mare intellect is not enough. The mind can be very tricky and by taking 'pride' of "knowing" delude you; if such is the case, you should watch out from this Kali yoga trap in which the teacher=preacher is but the mare mind/ego wanting to be a teacher/guru. You are very kind and well deserved other wise.
3 hours ago ·
Santthosh Kumaar
Thank you Pri Ya. Action and inaction both are same, because inaction also is an action. thus keeping silence within the falsehood is not real silence. Restlessness is the nature of the mind or duality. Non-dual silence is the nature of our true self. OSHO said :-Rest in consciousness in commentary of Ashtavakra .Realizing everything is consciousness by realizing consciousness is our true identity silence happens on its own. Realizing our true identity is not the form but formless consciousness will lead one to self awareness or non-dual silence. Neti Neti is possible only from ultimate standpoint and it is not possible within the duality holding the false self as true self.
3 hours ago ·
Pri Ya I know dear man; it is exactly what I tell you; reach the absolute hence neti neti is possible; try and see
3 hours ago ·
Santthosh Kumaar
Dear Pri Ya , I respect for your views. thank you for your wisdom. but deeper self -search revels the fact that :- Wherever there is impermanence and transiency, there is necessarily duality. But that which knows these things is passing away, that is the Formless witness/soul.
The lightning-flash or glimpse of the truth actually eliminates the ego, but it lasts for the minutest fraction of a second only; it is a kind of deep sleep in the midst of waking experience. It is impossible to eliminate ego, since one have to involve in worldly business. One has to eliminate the attachment to ego, by realizing the fact that ‘I’, is not the self, but formless witness/soul is the true self.
Deeper thinking on the base of the soul leads ultimately to the understanding that there is something behind three states, the Witness itself. That is, there are two factors in thinking, object and the awareness or consciousness which is the thinker of the object. Deeper thinking on the base of the soul leads us to discover this latter factor and in this sense leads us to non-dual truth. Even Reason itself has to go in non-dual reality.
Seeker has to mentally reduce multiplicity to unity by reducing everything to mind. And by reducing the mind [waking/dream] to soul/spirit he will get non dual wisdom.
When one wants to know what gold is, he has to mentally to negate the names and forms of necklace, ring or bracelet. This negation is an abstract affair, for the necklace, ring and bracelet still remain, they do not physically disappear. In the same way if one wants to know Atman he has mentally to negate all names and forms of objects within the waking/dream but the objects of waking/dream do not actually disappear, but its unreality is exposed and one becomes aware everything is created out of Atman, therefore everything is Atman. The name and forms create division within the consciousness, which is the soul.
Every thought as thought is known only by distinguishing it from its opposite. Happiness implies suffering. One must rise above the pairs of opposites, i.e. he must rise above the dualities inherent in thinking into non duality. This is the real meaning of non duality.
If there are two entities there will be differences between them. If there are two persons, or even individual and God, there will be difference of opinion. Hence truth can only exist in non-duality. Hence the pursuit of truth is to remove wrong ideas about truth from the consciousness and to remove duality from the outlook.
All such terms as change, non-existence, eternal, etc. imply each other. Hence they are only ideas, mental constructions. Any word used will only be an idea that covers the Atman/soul and does not reveal it. They will only keep people in the realm of discussion although it is quite necessary for practical truths which can never grasp reality; for it yields only thoughts, i.e. duality and is necessarily devoid of reality. All discussions of the nature of the Highest are mere imagination.
"Duality ceases to exist"--means duality as two separate realities ceases to exist. Duality still exists but the knower knows that they have not got separate existence in Reality, i.e. the duality has not got existence separate from the only ultimate reality . Unless one gets the non dual at truth by inquiry, one has to take it for granted that there is duality. I am not preaching. I am just sharing my views.Kaliyuga is time. time exist where the form and space exists. the form,time and space exist where the mind exists. for,time and space together is mind. the mind is mere mirage from ultimate standpoint. until one verifies what is mind?, what is the substance of the mind ? what is the source of the mind the truth realzation is immposible.
3 hours ago ·
Santthosh Kumaar There is no need to reach there for those who have realized the fact that their body , ego and their experience of the universe are also consciousness in the midst illusion [waking] . We are speaking within the illusion therefore, all our action , inaction, speech thoughts and words are also are part of that illusion. Whatever exists without the illusion is our true identity without form,time and space.
3 hours ago ·
Santthosh Kumaar Reach where I and you and others and the universe are one in essence. The oneness. When the reality appears this ignorance
which one thinks as reality becomes unreal.
— MEHER BABA
2 hours ago ·
Pri Ya You are that; there is no need in coming and going; all is here and now; You are That; rest in it
about an hour ago ·
Santthosh Kumaar
Self is not limited to YOU ARE[I AM] alone, because self is not individual It pervades all the three states as their formless substance and witness,which is consciousness. whatever comes and goes is not real but what is aware of the coming and going is apart and eternal. the self is within the three states but it is without the three states. self is apart because it is not and entity or identity within the three states. We have to realize this truth here and now means - we have realize it within the waking experience or duality that the formless substance and witness are one in essence. the essence is formless consciousness ,which is our innermost self. realizing the mind ,which is form of consciousness in the midst of waking experience leads to self-awareness or Sri Ramana Maharshi's state. Thus the SELF IS THAT without I OR I AM.
about an hour ago ·
Pavlos Dolatzoglou Hello Santthosh, what people here want to say you is, make sure, that you don´t create a problem with your left hand, what you want to solve with your right hand. The Truth, expressed in concepts, can become a tricky and glamouros god ;o)
31 minutes ago ·
Santthosh Kumaar
Dear Kip, there is no need to read if one is chosen, wisdom will come on its own. This subject is vast and it has to be grasped only through deeper self-search.
Upanishad say:
This Ataman cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Ataman reveals Its own form. [Katha Upanishad Ch-II -23-P-20]
Mundaka Upanishad :-
This Ataman cannot be attained through study of the Vedas, nor through intelligence, nor through much learning. He who chooses Ataman—by him alone is Ataman attained. It is Ataman that reveals to the seeker Its true nature. [ 3 –page-70 Mundaka Upanishad Upanishads by Nikilanada]
When the Upanishads say:-
It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Ataman reveals its own form. Then what is the use of indulging through our intelligence or our accumulated knowledge, when one is not chosen by the self, which is the soul, which is in the form of consciousness.
There is no need for any philosophy in pursuit of truth because they take the seeker nearer to truth but they create more doubts and confusions.
The scriptures and theories and teaching based on the ego are not the yardstick. Using them as yardstick to understand and assimilate the truth will lead one towards pursuit of arguments. Seeker of truth has to discover on his own, the truth of his true existence by inquiring “what is mind?” and “what is substance of the mind?” and move forward.
The ultimate truth is one without the second, the one is not in the sense half or two, but the one that remain forever One, without the second. The consciousness is all pervading. There is no place where consciousness is not.
Consciousness is in everyone, consciousness is in everything .consciousness is one behind many. Consciousness alone is. It means the universe and its contents are the visible form of consciousness. And consciousness in turn is invisible form of the universe, which appears as mind.
Since people all are not aware of the fact that, they are an experience within another experience [waking/dream]. The mind is an experience, which contains everyone and everything and the universe. Since one limits the mind to the physical entity, he forgets the fact that, his body and the universe is an experience, within waking or dream experience. It is impossible to unfold the mystery of his true existence without realizing the fact that, the self is not physical but the self is consciousness. If the self is not physical then it is erroneous to judge and conclude the truth on the base of the physical self or ego. Thus the truth has to be judges on the base of the true self, which is consciousness which is not an individual but it pervades all the three states as their formless substance and witness. That is why Nisrgadutta said thousands are seeking truth but one in million will realize it.
All the best in chosen path. The inner guru will direct you till you become aware of what is truth and what is untruth.
29 minutes ago ·
Santthosh Kumaar Dear Pavlos, Thank you, I am fully aware what is going on. I am just interacting with list- mates. I am not imposing anything on any one. the wisdom will not dawn because I am saying. Pursuit of truth is a very personal journey. Sharing knowledge and thinking deeper without being judgmental and moving ahead in this mental journey leads to self-awareness. No one need to accept what I am saying. I am not teacher . I not teaching. nor i want any one to follow me. OSHO - Sage Ashtavakra and Janak
Osho : When Ashtavakra was twelve years old, Janak hosted a huge debating conference. Janak was an emperor, and he invited the pundits of the whole country to debate on the scriptures. He had one thousand cows placed at the palace gate and had the horns of the cows plated with gold and decorated with jewels. He proclaimed, ”Whoever is victorious, shall take possession of these cows.”
It was a great debate. Ashtavakra’s father also participated. As dusk was falling, the message came to Ashtavakra that his father was losing. He had already defeated all the others, but he was about to be defeated by a pundit named Vandin. Receiving this message Ashtavakra went to the palace. The hall was decorated. The debate was in its final stage and the decisive moment was fast approaching. His father’s defeat was a complete forgone conclusion – he was on the very edge of defeat.
The pundits saw Ashtavakra as he entered the royal court. They were all learned scholars. His body was bent and deformed in eight places: he had just to move and anyone would start laughing. His very movement was a laughing matter. The whole meeting broke into laughter. Ashtavakra also roared with laughter. Janak asked, ”Everyone else is laughing. I can understand why they laugh, but why did you laugh, my son?”
Ashtavakra said, ”I am laughing because truth is being decided in this conference of butchers” – the man must have been extraordinary. ”What are all these skinners doing here?”
A deep silence fell over the meeting. Butchers? Skinners? The king asked, ”What do you mean?”
Ashtavakra said, ”It is simple and straightforward: They only see skin, they don’t see me. It is difficult to find a man more pure and simple than me, but they don’t see this; they see a bent and deformed body. They are skinners, they judge by the skin. Your Majesty, in the curve of a temple is the sky curved? When a pot is smashed, is the sky smashed? The sky is beyond change. My body is twisted, but I am not. Look at the one within. You can’t find anything more straight and pure.”
It was a very startling declaration. There must have been pin-drop silence. Janak was impressed, astounded: ”Absolutely right, why had he gathered a crowd of skinners there?” He became repentant, he felt guilty that he too had laughed. That day the king couldn’t manage to say anything, but the following day when he was out on his morning ride he saw Ashtavakra on the way. Janak dismounted from his horse and fell at his feet. The day before, in front of everyone, he couldn’t find the courage.
The day before he had said, ”Why do you laugh, my son?” Ashtavakra was a boy of twelve years, and Janak had considered his age. This day he didn’t notice the age. This day he got down from his horse and fell at Ashtavakra’s feet, spread-eagled in prostration.
He said, ”Please visit the palace, and satisfy my eagerness for the truth. Oh lord, be so gracious as to come to my home. I have understood! I couldn’t sleep the whole night. You spoke truly: what depth of understanding have those who recognize only the body? They are debating the being, but attraction and repulsion for the body still arise; hate and attraction still arise. They are looking at death while talking of the deathless! I’m blessed that you came and disturbed me, that you broke my sleep. Please come to the palace!”
Janak had the palace decorated magnificently. He welcomed Ashtavakra and seated him on a golden throne – this twelve year old Ashtavakra. Then he put his questions to him. The first sutra is Janak’s inquiry. Janak asked and Ashtavakra explained. Beyond this, nothing is known about Ashtavakra. And there is no need to know more, it is more than enough! Diamonds are not many; only pebbles and rocks are so common. A single diamond is enough.
Source: “The Mahageeta, Volume 1” - OSHO
