Ignorant are struck with awe or reverence at the outer indications of renunciation, and thus they take a religious scholar or god men to be a Gnani.

Ignorant are struck with awe or reverence at the outer indications of renunciation, and thus they take a religious scholar or god men to be a Gnani. But the religious scholar or god men have no connection with the Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.

By having no wife, no family, and no possessions" is not the qualification to acquire the non dual wisdom. By repressing these desires is anything to do in pursuit of truth. 

The first step is of knowing “the true Self." The second is to know the true self is Atman or consciousness." Then alone one knows the non dual truth and wisdom, i.e. the Atman is the ultimate truth.

Realizing the fact that, the True Self is not ‘I’, but the Atman or consciousness or soul, is the key that opens the door of non dual reality.

 This yoga helps only to stabilize the restless of the mind. The formula "What is I?" presupposes the existence of an ‘I’. ‘I’ is only an assumption. Before proceeding to act on such a formula seeker ought first to inquire whether ‘I’ is the self or not. 

Pursuit of truth starts from what one sees as a person, i.e. the world.  Non dual wisdom comes from both knowing the world and the true self. To leave out one of these parts is to prevent attainment of non dual wisdom.

"What is “I” is useful and certainly has a value, and gives some clue of the true self as the Witness and the witnessed. The man and the world face the true self. This truth has to be grasped. If the witnessed [waking/dream] is ignored, then "What is I” cannot give the full truth.

Who am ‘I’ is physical based inquiry; not the spiritualistic; the latter deals with the three states, whereas the former deals with a part only.

"Who am I" is physical based, because there, is no person in realm of truth but only in the illusion. The right way of inquiry is “What is I?"

  To reflect  on “What am   I?" can only yield the thought 'I', just as the yogi  who says "I will not think of beautiful bride" will end up by always thinking of her.

The inquiry “Who am I” is a physical, not a spiritual inquiry. It is centered on physicality and individuality. It is on a par with "What shall I be after death?" and "What shall I get as a reward if I pray to God?" It is purely ego-centered: it is an appeal to the interest in selfishness only. Seeker of truth has to lift their thoughts above ego and ask "What is ‘I’ or mind or universe or waking."

All the experiences of the three states  put together make the Atman or soul, not merely the ego which is present only in waking or dream questioning itself ''What am I.” 

Reflecting on the whole is the best way towards non dual destination: reflecting on the parts are only steps towards that.

• v  What is the first thing that one sees when waking takes place?

It is the world.  The mystic and believers  disregard this in order to think of self.

 Those who jump at once to Atman disregarding the world are mystics or religionists, not seekers of truth.

  If one doesn’t see objects, it does not mean he has non dual wisdom. Whoever looks at objects alone, at the external world, he is wholly ignorant. However, one, who looks at both the outside and inside, inquires; he is led towards self- knowledge.

Seeker of truth has to analyze both mind and matter to get at truth. The knowledge of the objective world and the knowledge of the truth of the self or the subject are necessary in pursuit of truth.  

In the beginning of path of inquiry one does it to please himself, not for truth; hence he asks "Who am I?" It helps the elementary stage of understanding of the fact that body is not the self and helps in loosening of the ego. 

The ‘I’ itself is inborn samskara or conditioning, because of this inborn samskara or conditioning one has accepted the ‘I’ as ‘self

The ‘I’ itself is inborn samskara or conditioning, because of this inborn samskara or conditioning one has accepted the ‘I’ as ‘self. This inborn samskara or conditioning itself is cause of ignorance.  By accepting the 'I' as self he has accepted illusion as reality.  The ‘I’ itself is illusion.  And whatever is connected to the ‘I’ is bound to be illusion.  The self is not an individual because it is birthless because it is formless.  The self is not limited to waking experience alone because it pervades all the three states.  Thus identifying the self without the form alone is erroneous.   The self is without the form, without the time and without the space.

 Thought is nothing to do with the innermost self, which is ever formless because without the form, time and space the thought will not be formed.  Thought rises only to the waking entity or dream entity. Without the waking entity or dream entity the thoughts will not rise. Deeper self-search reveals the fact that the self is neither the waking entity nor the self is the dream entity but the self is the formless soul or consciousness, which witnesses the coming and going of the three states.

 The three states are nothing to do with the self because they are mere illusion.

When one analyzes he finds the fact that the ‘I’ is mind and mind is present in the form of universe and universe appears as waking or dream and disappears as deep sleep.

Ego is physical mind and it is in the form of individual experience, feelings thoughts and sensations together.

The duality exists until the mind exists.

Advaita only means negation of duality. The soul, which is present in the form of consciousness, is ultimate truth or Brahman. The consciousness is the cause of the origin, maintenance, and withdrawal of the universe is Advaita (i.e. non-dual), it means that the consciousness transcends all conceptions, positive and negative. Nothing positive can ever be imagined or said about it.

The consciousness is existence absolute, awareness absolute.  Existence absolute means that consciousness is not unreal or non-existent. And it is not unconsciousness.  Nothing positive can be stated about consciousness.

In one of the Upanishads the disciple says to the Master: "Lord, tell me the nature of Atman". The Teacher remains silent. Again the question is asked, and again the answer is silence. By his silence the Teacher indicated that the nature of Atman is in inexplicable, indescribable and unimaginable.

The soul, the innermost self is the One without a second. There is not the least shadow of multiplicity in the soul, which is present in the form of consciousness." 

We are talking about non-duality within the duality. The duality exists until the mind exists. Absent of mind is absent of duality. Therefore,   by understanding “What is mind?” and “What is the substance of the mind?” one becomes aware what is reality, and what is illusion.  Only by perfect understanding and realization of the non-dual truth, one will be able to overcome the duality. 

Since we are conditioned to view, judge and conclude the truth on the base of ‘I’, which is the false self, within the false experience, we are unaware what is truth, and what is illusion.  Man and his world exist within the illusion.  Therefore, it is erroneous to view and judge the truth on the base of illusory entity.

  
Truth cannot be got in world. The truth is hidden within the three states as their formless substance and witness.  The formless substance is the soul. And the soul is the true self.

The soul, the innermost self  is not an entity, or identity within the waking  or dream, but it is the source of the three states, from where the three states erupt and subsides. 

When one is able to view and judge the worldview on the standpoint soul as self, then he will realize there is neither the creation, nor the creator, but only non-dual soul  or spirit will prevail as ultimate reality.  Therefore, it is erroneous to conclude the truth on the base of religion and god. 

All religious and yogic practices are based on the `ego' or waking entity  as self, which is false self  within the false experience (waking or duality).  The Waking experience is mere illusion, same way as the dream. Hence it is very much necessary to verify truth of the ‘I’, to realize the fact that ‘I’ itself is mere illusion. ‘I’ is not the self, because it comes and goes as waking or dream. Absent of ‘I’ absent of waking or dream or mind. Absent of waking or dream is absent of illusion or duality.   The knower of the ‘I’ is formless soul. When one who realizes the soul as the true self, and then he becomes free from experiencing the duality as reality. 

This formless path is very difficult for those who stick to their inherited or accepted truth, but not for the serious seekers who are in search of only non dual truth nothing but non dual truth. 

Religion is looked upon essentially as a path of truth but it is not so

Religion is looked upon essentially as a path of truth but it is not so. Religion is based on the false self (waking entity or ego) and false experience (universe or waking experience) as reality.   All the egocentric paths propagate that to be non-observant and to withdraw: keen powers of observation are desirable and will help, not hinder one’s pursuit of truth. Seeker should not do not run away from the world in ascetic fear or shyness of them. To simply accept the world to be Maya or illusion   without first verifying   and realizing   in what way the world is Maya or illusion, and inquiring into them thoroughly is to delude one own self. 

Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is nothing to do with the religion yoga and any path and practices based on the ego or waking entity. This forum does not condemn any religion or any guru but it only highlights the fallacies and bifurcate all adulteration and add-onn's as information because the religion and spirituality were mixed up in the past. Spirituality is nothing to do with the religion and yoga because spirituality is based on the formless soul, the innermost self, whereas the religion and yoga are based on the physical self or ego or waking entity. The soul, the innermost self has no religion and becoming aware of the innermost self leads to non-dual Self-Awareness.

Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana  is nothing to do with religion or yoga or other path and practices.

Ramana Maharishi:-
 

Q: D: Is it not necessary to study the Vedas or at least Prastnatraya[Bagvad gita.Dasoponishad and Brahma Sutra all with commentaries] to ensure firm reazation?

RM -No. Do you need all that to see yourself? All that is intellectual wealth, useful in explain doubts and difficulties if others rise them or if you yourself encounter them in the course of thinking. But to attain realization, all that is not necessary. You want fresh water to drink, but you do not require all the water of the river Ganges to quench your thirst. [Page 111/112 of Practical guide to know yourself c/e by A.R.N].

This surely indicates Sri, Ramana Maharishi’s path is independent path nothing to with the religion and scriptures. 

Even Upanishad say:

  This Atman cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Atman reveals Its own form. [Katha Upanishad Ch-II -23-P-20]

Mundaka Upanishad  :-

This Atman cannot be attained through study of the Vedas, nor through intelligence, nor through much learning. He who chooses Atman—by him alone is Atman attained. It is Ataman that reveals to the seeker Its true nature. [3 –page-70 Mundaka Upanishad  Upanishads by Nikilanada]

The scriptures indicate that Atman is Brahman, and Brahman is ultimate truth. Therefore the soul, which is in the form of consciousness, is ultimate truth.  Thus to realize the ultimate truth is the prime goal.   A well-directed inquiry, analysis and reasoning will lead one to his non-dual destination. 

Self-Realization is direct realization of the ultimate truth or real god, in contrast with traditional paths, which are indirect. And the other paths cannot lead to the ultimate destination because they are based on the false self, which they hold as real self and false experience as reality. 

Until and unless one overcomes physical shackle it is impossible to understand and assimilate the non-dual truth, which is beyond the physical existence or the universe.  Consciousness itself is lord of itself though not of the universe. And having nothing it has all.

Gaudapada quotes from the Upanishads: "There's no plurality here"; "The Lord [Atman] through his powers appears to be many"; "those who are attached to creation or production or origination go to utter darkness"; "the unborn is never reborn, for who can produce him [Atman]?”

It is only who base on ‘I’ or ‘I AM’ as self, argue and quarrel amongst themselves. The people who are fully aware of the fact that, the form, time and space are mere mirage created out of consciousness have no reason to quarrel, because for them everything is consciousness and no second thing exist other than consciousness.

Gods with form and attributes are mere imagination based on the false self or ego or waking entity

In Vedas the God has been described as:-

         Sakshi (Witness)

         Chetan (conscious)

         Nirguna (Without form and properties).

         Nitya (eternal)

         Shuddha (pure)

         Buddha (omniscient)

         Mukta (unattached).

All these qualities are of the Atman (soul), which is the innermost self. It indicates clearly all the Gods with form and attributes are mere imagination based on the false self or ego or waking entity.  Thus all individualized gods and goddesses are non-Vedic Gods. 

And also  in Yajurved says:

Translation 1.

They enter darkness, those who worship natural things (for example air, water, sun, moon, animals, fire, stone, etc).

They sink deeper in darkness those who worship sambhuti. (Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol etc.)

[Yajurved 40:9]

Translation 2.

"Deep into shade of blinding gloom fall asambhuti's worshippers. They sink to darkness deeper yet who on sambhuti are intent."

[Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Giffith pg 538]

Translation 3.

"They are enveloped in darkness, in other words, are steeped in ignorance and sunk in the greatest depths of misery who worship the uncreated, eternal prakrti -- the material cause of the world -- in place of the All-pervading God, But those who worship visible things born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time."

[Yajur Veda 40:9.]

So, Yajur Veda indicates that:- 

They sink deeper in darkness those who worship sambhuti. (Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol etc [Yajurved 40:9]

Those who worship visible things born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time." [Yajur Veda 40:9.]

 When the religion of the Veda knows no idols than why so many gods and goddesses with different form and name are being propagated as Vedic gods. Why these conceptual gods are introduced when Vedic concept of god is free from form and attributes.

Who introduced concept of god with attributes and attributeless gods, when Yajur Veda says: -   those who worship visible things, born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like), in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness.

When Yajur Veda  itself declares that:- "They are enveloped in darkness, in other words, are steeped in ignorance and sunk in the greatest depths of misery who worship the uncreated, eternal prakrti -- the material cause of the world -- in place of the All-pervading God, But those who worship visible things born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time."  -- than why believe  and worship non-Vedic  Gods and fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow.  

 

- Swami Vivekananda :- THE MASSES IN INDIA CRY TO SIXTY MILLION GODS, AND STILL DIE LIKE DOGS. WHERE ARE THESE GODS?

Knowing this, stand up and fight! Not one step back that is the idea. ... Fight it out, whatever comes. Let the stars move from the sphere! Let the whole world stand against us! Death means only a change of garment. What of it? Thus fight! You gain nothing by becoming cowards. ... Taking a step backward, you do not avoid any misfortune. You have cried to all the gods in the world. Has misery ceased? The masses in India cry to sixty million gods, and still die like dogs. Where are these gods? ... The gods come to help you when you have succeeded. So what is the use? Die game. ... This bending the knee to superstitions, this selling yourself to your own mind does not befit you, my soul. You are infinite, deathless, birthless. Because you are infinite spirit, it does not befit you to be a slave. ... Arise! Awake! Stand up and fight! Die if you must. There is none to help you. You are the entire world. Who can help you?

- Swami Vivekananda
(Delivered In San Francisco, on May 28, 1900)
The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda/Volume 1/Lectures And Discourses/The Gita II

People believe in old myths propagated by their religion. Every religion has propagated its own myth. Every religious belief contradicts other beliefs. It is mere blind belief accepted as truth without verification and evidence.  This causes division. Modern science has exposed many Religious dogmas as myth. All these dogma were introduced in primitive era   before people had the benefit of modern science. Science attempts to objectively discover how life works, and religion makes one blindly believe and cast his  burden on the blind belief without verification,  to live in peace and harmony in practical life  within the practical world. 

 Seekers main aim is to investigate both dual and non-dual experiences to find and define the underlying truth in everything, thereby realizing what the ultimate truth is.  Because of so many beliefs propagated by belief system, people think seekers of truth are   atheists because they do not accept the belief blindly. Seekers of truth believe the believers and atheists both are believers because believers believe in the belief of god and atheists believe in belief of no god.   

Pursuit of truth is all about accepting uncertainty and open questions and seeking for the things that are certainty. Believers and nonbelievers   will not accept anything other than their inherited belief system or accepted truth.  Atheists feel there is no proof for god’s existence. So atheist chooses to just believe there is no such thing called God. And religionists just believe in the existence of their conceptual god.  A Gnani is one who is fully aware of the fact that, the existence or non-existence of God cannot be proven on the base of physical self.  Therefore deeper understanding is necessary to understand and assimilate the truth about Gods existence to know what is supposed to be the God.