Monday, March 12, 2012

Religion is looked upon essentially as a path of truth but it is not so


Religion is looked upon essentially as a path of truth but it is not so. Religion is based on the false self (waking entity or ego) and false experience (universe or waking experience) as reality.   All the egocentric paths propagate that to be non-observant and to withdraw: keen powers of observation are desirable and will help, not hinder one’s pursuit of truth. Seeker should not do not run away from the world in ascetic fear or shyness of them. To simply accept the world to be Maya or illusion   without first verifying   and realizing   in what way the world is Maya or illusion, and inquiring into them thoroughly is to delude one own self. 

Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is nothing to do with the religion yoga and any path and practices based on the ego or waking entity. This forum does not condemn any religion or any guru but it only highlights the fallacies and bifurcate all adulteration and add-onn's as information because the religion and spirituality were mixed up in the past. Spirituality is nothing to do with the religion and yoga because spirituality is based on the formless soul, the innermost self, whereas the religion and yoga are based on the physical self or ego or waking entity. The soul, the innermost self has no religion and becoming aware of the innermost self leads to non-dual Self-Awareness.

Self-Knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana  is nothing to do with religion or yoga or other path and practices.
Ramana Maharishi:-
 
Q: D: Is it not necessary to study the Vedas or at least Prastnatraya[Bagvad gita.Dasoponishad and Brahma Sutra all with commentaries] to ensure firm reazation?


RM -No. Do you need all that to see yourself? All that is intellectual wealth, useful in explain doubts and difficulties if others rise them or if you yourself encounter them in the course of thinking. But to attain realization, all that is not necessary. You want fresh water to drink, but you do not require all the water of the river Ganges to quench your thirst. [Page 111/112 of Practical guide to know yourself c/e by A.R.N].

This surely indicates Sri, Ramana Maharishi’s path is independent path nothing to with the religion and scriptures. 
Even Upanishad say:
  This Atman cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Atman reveals Its own form. [Katha Upanishad Ch-II -23-P-20]
Mundaka Upanishad  :-
This Atman cannot be attained through study of the Vedas, nor through intelligence, nor through much learning. He who chooses Atman—by him alone is Atman attained. It is Ataman that reveals to the seeker Its true nature. [3 –page-70 Mundaka Upanishad  Upanishads by Nikilanada]

The scriptures indicate that Atman is Brahman, and Brahman is ultimate truth. Therefore the soul, which is in the form of consciousness, is ultimate truth.  Thus to realize the ultimate truth is the prime goal.   A well-directed inquiry, analysis and reasoning will lead one to his non-dual destination. 
Self-Realization is direct realization of the ultimate truth or real god, in contrast with traditional paths, which are indirect. And the other paths cannot lead to the ultimate destination because they are based on the false self, which they hold as real self and false experience as reality. 
Until and unless one overcomes physical shackle it is impossible to understand and assimilate the non-dual truth, which is beyond the physical existence or the universe.  Consciousness itself is lord of itself though not of the universe. And having nothing it has all.

Gaudapada quotes from the Upanishads: "There's no plurality here"; "The Lord [Atman] through his powers appears to be many"; "those who are attached to creation or production or origination go to utter darkness"; "the unborn is never reborn, for who can produce him [Atman]?”
It is only who base on ‘I’ or ‘I AM’ as self, argue and quarrel amongst themselves. The people who are fully aware of the fact that, the form, time and space are mere mirage created out of consciousness have no reason to quarrel, because for them everything is consciousness and no second thing exist other than consciousness.

Gods with form and attributes are mere imagination based on the false self or ego or waking entity



In Vedas the God has been described as:-
         Sakshi (Witness)
         Chetan (conscious)
         Nirguna (Without form and properties).
         Nitya (eternal)
         Shuddha (pure)
         Buddha (omniscient)
         Mukta (unattached).

All these qualities are of the Atman (soul), which is the innermost self. It indicates clearly all the Gods with form and attributes are mere imagination based on the false self or ego or waking entity.  Thus all individualized gods and goddesses are non-Vedic Gods. 


And also  in Yajurved says:
Translation 1.
They enter darkness, those who worship natural things (for example air, water, sun, moon, animals, fire, stone, etc).

They sink deeper in darkness those who worship sambhuti. (Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol etc.)

[Yajurved 40:9]
Translation 2.
"Deep into shade of blinding gloom fall asambhuti's worshippers. They sink to darkness deeper yet who on sambhuti are intent."

[Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Giffith pg 538]
Translation 3.
"They are enveloped in darkness, in other words, are steeped in ignorance and sunk in the greatest depths of misery who worship the uncreated, eternal prakrti -- the material cause of the world -- in place of the All-pervading God, But those who worship visible things born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time."

[Yajur Veda 40:9.]
So, Yajur Veda indicates that:- 

They sink deeper in darkness those who worship sambhuti. (Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol etc [Yajurved 40:9]

Those who worship visible things born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time." [Yajur Veda 40:9.]

 When the religion of the Veda knows no idols than why so many gods and goddesses with different form and name are being propagated as Vedic gods. Why these conceptual gods are introduced when Vedic concept of god is free from form and attributes.

Who introduced concept of god with attributes and attributeless gods, when Yajur Veda says: -   those who worship visible things, born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like), in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness.

When Yajur Veda  itself declares that:- "They are enveloped in darkness, in other words, are steeped in ignorance and sunk in the greatest depths of misery who worship the uncreated, eternal prakrti -- the material cause of the world -- in place of the All-pervading God, But those who worship visible things born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time."  -- than why believe  and worship non-Vedic  Gods and fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow.  

 
- Swami Vivekananda :- THE MASSES IN INDIA CRY TO SIXTY MILLION GODS, AND STILL DIE LIKE DOGS. WHERE ARE THESE GODS?


Knowing this, stand up and fight! Not one step back that is the idea. ... Fight it out, whatever comes. Let the stars move from the sphere! Let the whole world stand against us! Death means only a change of garment. What of it? Thus fight! You gain nothing by becoming cowards. ... Taking a step backward, you do not avoid any misfortune. You have cried to all the gods in the world. Has misery ceased? The masses in India cry to sixty million gods, and still die like dogs. Where are these gods? ... The gods come to help you when you have succeeded. So what is the use? Die game. ... This bending the knee to superstitions, this selling yourself to your own mind does not befit you, my soul. You are infinite, deathless, birthless. Because you are infinite spirit, it does not befit you to be a slave. ... Arise! Awake! Stand up and fight! Die if you must. There is none to help you. You are the entire world. Who can help you?
- Swami Vivekananda
(Delivered In San Francisco, on May 28, 1900)
The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda/Volume 1/Lectures And Discourses/The Gita II



People believe in old myths propagated by their religion. Every religion has propagated its own myth. Every religious belief contradicts other beliefs. It is mere blind belief accepted as truth without verification and evidence.  This causes division. Modern science has exposed many Religious dogmas as myth. All these dogma were introduced in primitive era   before people had the benefit of modern science. Science attempts to objectively discover how life works, and religion makes one blindly believe and cast his  burden on the blind belief without verification,  to live in peace and harmony in practical life  within the practical world. 

 Seekers main aim is to investigate both dual and non-dual experiences to find and define the underlying truth in everything, thereby realizing what the ultimate truth is.  Because of so many beliefs propagated by belief system, people think seekers of truth are   atheists because they do not accept the belief blindly. Seekers of truth believe the believers and atheists both are believers because believers believe in the belief of god and atheists believe in belief of no god.   

Pursuit of truth is all about accepting uncertainty and open questions and seeking for the things that are certainty. Believers and nonbelievers   will not accept anything other than their inherited belief system or accepted truth.  Atheists feel there is no proof for god’s existence. So atheist chooses to just believe there is no such thing called God. And religionists just believe in the existence of their conceptual god.  A Gnani is one who is fully aware of the fact that, the existence or non-existence of God cannot be proven on the base of physical self.  Therefore deeper understanding is necessary to understand and assimilate the truth about Gods existence to know what is supposed to be the God.




Sunday, March 11, 2012

Man and the world are mere appearance.


A   person, seeing a rope in dim light, mistakes it for a snake. He is as much frightened as he would have been if there had been a real snake there.  The snake is said to have ‘illusory reality’.  The illusory snake is described as a superimposition on the rope. The snake is not real, because, it is found on examination with a light that it never existed there. At the same time, it was experienced as reality till ignorance prevailed. Similarly, this waking experience experienced   as reality till wisdom dawns.  On the dawn of Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana it is known to have no existence apart from consciousness. Consciousness is ultimate truth or Brahman. The waking experience is therefore said to be superimposed on consciousness same way as the dream is superimposed on the consciousness.  The  waking experience   is practical   reality,  because  it  is  real  until  the  attainment  of  Self-realisation.  Consciousness alone has absolute reality; because it is absolutely changeless because it is formless.      

All appearance(three states)  has not appeared to the physical entity(waking entity or ego) , but to the formless soul, the innermost self. Man and the world are mere appearance.  That is, the illusion is mere appearance. Thus man cannot be considered as witness, since man and his experience of the world are within the illusion.  Thus the witness of the illusion is within the illusion but it is apart from the illusion.  It is with is within the illusion as its formless substance and it is apart from the illusion as its formless witness.  The formless substance and witness is the soul or consciousness. The soul or consciousness is the true self. Realizing the soul as self is Self -Realization.  Therefore, the soul or consciousness  alone is real and all else is mere illusion. By learning to view and judge the three states on the base of soul, which is the innermost self, leads to non-dual self-awareness


It is necessary to learn to view and judge the three states on the base of soul, to understand and assimilate the self-knowledge.  It is the through the soul one knows himself as a person and perceives the world.  It is the soul, which is the author or knower of the three states, not the person who is limited to waking or dream.  

A well-directed self-search search will lead one to find his non-dual Self-Awareness. Trying to discover the truth on the false self (waking entity or ego) is going round and round not reaching anywhere.

One is ignorant and he asserts the blissful, ever-existent consciousness, which exits in all the three states as its formless substance and witness.   And it is also apart from the three states.  The witness is formless and it is not an entity and identity within the waking or dream. 

 Once the seeker accepts the fact that, the self is neither the ‘waking entity,  nor the dream entity but the self is the  formless soul  or  consciousness .which witnesses the coming and going of the three states. once he gets the firm  conviction the soul is the innermost self than the three states are  absolutely non-existent as reality.

Saturday, March 10, 2012

Adyatmic Discussion(meeting God) -209


REALIZE THE GOD
I AM PROUD TO SAY AND DECLARE
THAT I HAVE MET THE "GOD"
On 15th of March 2008 during my sleep I had a dream. During my dream I was sitting under a tree in an abundant area far from city with my head down and in a thoughtful mode.
After some time I realized a passerby stopped in front me. Then I raised my head and saw a strange figure in front me.
That figure asked me I am watching ...you since fourty years you are comming here and sit for some time and go back. What is the cause your comming here?
I replied to him that I am in search of " ALL MIGHTY GOD " IN ACTUAL SHAPE.
Then stranger questioned me, do you know that the creatures are existing because of " God's Power " ?
I replied yes.
Then he smiled and said, is it not sufficient ?
Then I replied, NO.
Then the stranger said HE could help me know and realize what will happen, when God is not present.
I replied O K please let me realize that.
Then the stranger asked me to get up, when I got up, HE held me from my waist side and told me close my eyes till next order. Then he said come along with me and took me to another unknown place. After reaching there HE asked me to open my eyes.
Then stranger questioned me could I see HIM ?
Then I replied Yes.
Then HE ordered me to look around.
When I happened to look around I saw nothing around all had vanished and collapsed. Looking at that I was so stunned, that I became speechless.
Then HE questioned me should we go back now ?
I nodded my head in YES.
When we came back at the spot from where HE took me, HE asked me have you realized who the GOD is ?
I nodded my head in YES & pointed towards HIM, considering HIM the " GOD " As I remained safe with HIM.
Then I asked who exactly you are ? Then stranger replied I am YAYOO, HAWA, AIR and SAID HE is the only GOD of entire universe. This I have told you to end your search for me " THE ALL MIGHTY GOD ".
Further describing about himself HE said as under :- That
1 Where HE is present, creatures and creation exists, else not.
2 HE is the creator, the protector & the destroyer of entire universe.
3 HE is the master, He is the slave and HE is the servant.
4 HE is available in state in which the creatures want HIM to see.
5 HE does not charge or demand any thing for the services HE renders to this universe. Hence all sorts of offerings in his name remain as waste.
6 He enters and exits out as a creature inhales and exhales. Thus He has no home.
7 HE is present in every creature regardless of personality and dignity.
8 HE has no son, no daughter and no nominee. In fact HE is all alone.
9 To have HIM creature needs not go anywhere, as HE is present just adjacent to every creature.
10 In fact all creatures are equally loveable to HIM.
11 Creatures can call HIM by any word they know, as HE has no specific name.
12 All creature are the produce of the respective reproduction procedure present in the body of all creatures. HE gives them life & they grow up from the time of concievment.
13 All creatures are getting the rewards of acts they perform. All creatures perform an act to fulfill their own need of time to earn their livelihood.
14 HE is not at all responsible of their act they do. Also HE does not guide them to perform or not perform a specific act.
After reading the above subject if you feel you are also like minded then please forward this paper to some friends & relatives for their information.
Appeal from A K Dhir Mob: 9312547928 As human beings follow as under:-
1 Worship at first place the prandata " ALL MIGHTY GOD " as realized.
2 Worship secondly to Janamdata " YOUR OWN MOTHER ".
3 Worship thirdly to Anndata " ROUR OWN FATHER ".
4 Fourthly give due regards to all of " YOUR ELDERS " & love to all youngesters.
5 At last give due regards to " YOUR GURU " your knowledge providers.
· · · See Friendship · 19 hours ago near New Delhi, Delhi


    • Santthosh Kumaar I respect your views and wisdom. from standpoint of the birth entity whatever you experienced is true but from ultimate standpoint the duality is mere illusion. thus whatever seen,known, believed and experienced within the duality is bound to be falsehood because the duality is boud by form,time and space whereas the soul ,the innermost self is formless,timeless and space less existence.
      19 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      Sri Sankara and Maya or illusion
      VlSHNUVARDHANA, the King of the Hoysalas, was a Vaishnavite and was greatly incensed at the doctrine taught by Sri, Sankara that everything here below is an illusion. He wanted to teach the exponent of this doctrine a lesson. So he invited the then Sri, Sankara to his palace. That holy man went there and stoutly maintained that everything in this world was illusion. The king had arranged to let loose an infuriated elephant against Sri, Sankara. The beast rushed at Sri, Sankara who took to a precipitate flight to save himself.

      'Oh, Venerable Sir,' shouted the king, 'why do you run so fast seeing that the elephant is only an illusion?'

      'Oh, king,' said Sri,Sankara in his course of his flight, 'my running too is an illusion. Everything in this world is an illusion.’

      Similarly, the experiencing birth, life, death and the world are within the illusion. Due to ignorance the illusion is experienced as reality. The illusion is present in the form of ‘I’ or mind. Mind is present in the form of universe. Universe appears as waking or dream and disappears as deep sleep. The three states are one in essence and that essence is consciousness. The consciousness (soul) is the innermost self. On the standpoint of the innermost self the three states are illusory.
      Thus experiencing the birth, life, death and the world within the illusion (waking or universe) with the illusory self (waking entity or ego), within the illusory experience (waking), has to be illusion.
      The experience of birth, life, death and the world are mere illusion. The illusion is created, and sustained, and finally dissolves as consciousness, which is the innermost Self. Since, there is no second thing other than the consciousness (soul); the consciousness itself is ultimate truth or Brahman. The one who has realized this truth for him this illusion is passing show because he is fully aware of the fact that his body, his ego and his experience of the world to be consciousness. Practical peoples approach is more practical, and they are stuck with the reality of the practical life within the practical world, they take it as real whereas Gnani sees his body his ego and his experience of the world as consciousness. –FORMLESS PATH

      19 hours ago ·

    • Ashwani Kumar Dhir But the point is who is experiencing this? And who is teaching to whom?
      19 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar Where is the experience and experiencer in reality . The experience and experiencer are one in essence. That essence is consciousness. There is no second thing exist other than the consciousness. Thus consciousness alone is real and all else is mere illusion created out of consciousness.
      18 hours ago ·

    • Ashwani Kumar Dhir These discussions are being done by us both or some one else?
      18 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      When i ,you and others and the whole world with all its contents are one in essence. That essence is consciousness(soul), the innermost self . The innermost self is god. consciousness pervades in everything and everywhere in all the three states thus consciousness(god) is not limited form,time and space. The discussion is reality within the illusion. If the same discussion was taken place within the dream , the dream becomes unreal when the waking takes place. Similarly we are discussing within the waking experience. The waking becomes unreal when the wisdom dawns. wisdom dawns when the waking entity (YOU) realizes the self is neither the waking entity nor the self is dream entity but the self is formless witness(soul or consciousness) of the three states. the three states are one in essence.

      18 hours ago ·

    • Ashwani Kumar Dhir You mean in us resides the same consciousness then how come the difference in thinking we have? Does it not show we are different in thinking?
      18 hours ago ·

    • Santthosh Kumaar
      If you ask the same question in dream the dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. in a dream you have met many people with diff rent thinking but the whole dream disappeared along with dream people and the dream world. The self remained without the waking body and waking world in deep sleep. thus one has to know what is it tat becomes the whole waking experience , what is it that becomes the whole dream experience and what is it that becomes deep sleep to unfold the mystery of the mind or universe and realize the fact that universe in which I and YOU and others exists is mere illusion. if universe is mere illusion than the birth,life,death which takes place within the universe is mere illusion.

      18 hours ago ·



Adyatmic discussion (Self is not the brain) -208

Ashwani Kumar Dhir Yes, eyes are only to forward the information but brain is required to preceive consciousness based on the information. A.K.Dhir.
Santthosh Kumaar Self is not brain (body). Soul is in the form of consciousness. Consciousness is the innermost self. The body and the world are one in essence and that essence is consciousness. When self is not the body than what is the use of thinking of the brain ,which is within the body.

Science:-

Why You Are Not Your Brain, and Other Lessons from the Biology of Consciousness
by :Alva Noë. Hill and Wang, 2009

Alva No, a University of California, Berkeley, philosopher and cognitive scientist, argues that after decades of concerted effort on the part of neuroscientists, psychologists and philosophers "only one proposition about how the brain makes us conscious ... has emerged unchallenged: we don't have a clue." The reason we have been unable to explain the neural basis of consciousness, he says, is that it does not take place in the brain. Consciousness is not something that happens inside us but something we achieve it is more like dancing than it is like the digestive process. To understand consciousness the fact that we think and feel and that a world shows up for us we need to look at a larger system of which the brain is only one element. Consciousness requires the joint operation of brain, body and world. "You are not your brain. The brain, rather, is part of what you are."
---


If the brain is not the self then what is self.

The soul or consciousness, the innermost self is the witness-consciousness that experiences the action, the actor, and the world of separate things. It is like a light that illuminates everything in a theater, revealing the master of ceremonies, the guests, and the dancers with complete impartiality. Even when they all depart, the light shines to reveal their absence.a few seconds ago ·

  • Ashwani Kumar Dhir Take the example of a child just born. That has self in it but not the consciousness & awareness in it. Although that has brain in it. A.K.Dhir.

  • Santthosh Kumaar
    When the self is birthless than the question of birth,life death and the world does not arise. The one which is born,lives ,dies within the world is not the self because the self is ever formless. The self is that ,which witnesses the experience of birth,life,death and the world (waking)without the physical apparatus. Thus it is necessary to realize the self is nothing to do with the experience of birth,life,death and the world, because it is ever formless.


  • Ashwani Kumar Dhir Yes, self is birthless but not the creatures. If creatures are not there then self also has no value. As self attains a shape for reformation cycle. A.K.Dhir.

  • Ashwani Kumar Dhir Just as the numerals from 1 to 9 if these are not present then what is value of zero? A.K.Dhir.

  • Santthosh Kumaar
    Where is the creature when the matter and the spirit(consciousness) are one in essence. only on the standpoint of the ego(false self ) there is duality but on the standpoint of the soul or consciousness, the innermost self , there is no second thing exists other than consciousness. For a Gnani the body is not a body ,ego is not ego the world is not world because he is fully aware of the fact that they are mere mirage created out of consciousness. when body and the world are one in essence than what value of body and the world. Only the essence will prevail as ultimate reality or Brahman.

Ashwani Kumar Dhir Yes, zero will prevail without other numericals. In the same way Essence will be there without existence of wordly objects. But objects are for sure but not as a mirage. A.K.Dhir.
7 minutes ago ·
World is both real and unreal. It is real because it is a manifestation of consciousness, but is unreal, in the sense, that it is not absolute and eternal like consciousness itself.
Peoples approach is more practical, and they stuck with the reality of the world, they take it as real. That is why all the confusion.

The person, who stamped their foot on the ground to refute to show the world, is real, ignore that in dream he would do exactly the same--stamp his dream foot on the ground and assert it to be real.
2 minutes ago ·