July 8 at 11:08am · · ·
Pavlos Dolatzoglou hello Santthosh, i feel a little bit ambivalent with your postings. On the one site, good pointers which protect from a kind of soft-advaita ;o) on the other side, i miss a kind of abillity or flexibility to use or compare it with other sayings.July 9 at 4:44pm ·
Pavlos Dolatzoglou for example. What Jean Klein ment with the body experience was not a body-based teaching. But in this kind of unflexibility you create this interpretation i think. That , for me is a danger. A danger that even the truth, formalized and used as a kind of mind-system,can become a kind of indistructable image, which is like blinders.
July 9 at 4:48pm ·
Santthosh Kumaar
Dear Pavlos, I respect your views . There is no need to accept what I say without verifying. The pursuit of truth is pursuit of verification , noting has to be accepted without verification. One should not make teaching or any teacher as yardstick .The teachings are useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known. I am neither a teacher nor I am teaching. I am just sharing my views derived from deeper self -search. Teacher and teaching is not required in pursuit of truth because the truth has to be ascertained by seeker himself. This subject is vast and it has to be grasped only through deeper self-search.
Upanishad say:
This Ataman cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Ataman reveals Its own form. [Katha Upanishad Ch-II -23-P-20]
Mundaka Upanishad :-
This Ataman cannot be attained through study of the Vedas, nor through intelligence, nor through much learning. He who chooses Ataman—by him alone is Ataman attained. It is Ataman that reveals to the seeker Its true nature. [ 3 –page-70 Mundaka Upanishad Upanishads by Nikilanada]
When the Upanishads say:-
It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Atman reveals its own form. Then what is the use of indulging through our intelligence or our accumulated knowledge, when one is not chosen by the self, which is the soul, which is in the form of consciousness.
There is no need for any philosophy in pursuit of truth because they take the seeker nearer to truth but they create more doubts and confusions.
The scriptures and theories and teaching based on the ego are not the yardstick. Using them as yardstick to understand and assimilate the truth will lead one towards pursuit of arguments. Seeker of truth has to discover on his own, the truth of his true existence by inquiring “what is mind?” and “what is substance of the mind?” and move forward.
Dear Pavols , move ahead in your chosen path sincerely and seriously. The inner direction comes on its own and leads you to the destination you are seeking for. I wish you all the success in your chosen path. have a blisssful time in this illusory experience of duality.
July 9 at 5:45pm ·
Shantinath Neuen this is so... the finger pointing to the moon is so thick... the moon disapears...
July 9 at 5:47pm ·
Santthosh Kumaar
There is neither the finger nor the moon because the finger and the moon are also consciousness. Thus consciousness alone is all the forms and names are mere illusion created out of consciousness. Why go round and round, by various tortuous paths
When the Vedas and Upanishad declare that Consciousness or Atman is actually nothing but Brahman, then why go round and round, by various tortuous paths, like the blind led by the blind. One has to realize the fact that, the mind is in form of universe. Trace the source of mind and realize that source is consciousness. The mind rises from consciousness as waking or dream and subsides as deep sleep.
In Mandukya Upanishad Brahman and Atman are defined as same:
सर्वं ह्येतद् ब्रह्मायमात्मा ब्रह्म सोयमात्मा चतुष्पात् / sarvam hyetad brahmaayamaatmaa brahm soyamaatmaa chatushpaat –
Mandukya Upanishad, verse-2
Translation:
sarvam(सर्वम्)- Whole/All/Everything; hi(हि)- Really/Just/Surely/Indeed; etad(एतद्)- This here/This; brahm(ब्रह्म)- Brahm/Brahman; ayam(अयम्)- This/Here; aatmaa(आत्मा)- Atma/Atman; sah(सः)- He; ayam(अयम्)- This/Here; chatus(चतुस्)- Four/Quadruple; paat(पात्)- Step/Foot/Quarter
Fragmented Verse:
सर्वम् हि एतद् ब्रह्म अयम् आत्मा ब्रह्म सः अयम् आत्मा चतुस पात् / sarvam hi etad brahm ayama aatmaa brahm sah ayam aatmaa chatus paat
Simple Meaning:-
All indeed is this Brahman; This Atman is Brahman; He, this Atman has four steps/quarters.
While Brahman lies behind the sum total of the objective universe, some human minds boggle at any attempt to explain it with only the tools provided by reason. Brahman is beyond the senses, beyond the mind, beyond intelligence, beyond imagination. Indeed, the highest idea is that Brahman is beyond both existence and non-existence, transcending and including time, causation and space, and thus can never be known in the same material sense as one traditionally 'understands' a given concept or object.
Imagine a person who is blind from birth and has not seen anything. Is it possible for us to explain to him the meaning of the colour red. Is any amount of thinking or reasoning on his part ever going to make him understand the sensation of the colour red? In a similar fashion the idea of Brahman cannot be explained or understood through material reasoning or any form of human communication. Brahman is like the colour red; those who can sense it cannot explain or argue with those who have never sensed it.
Brahman is considered the all-pervading consciousness which is the basis of all the animate and inanimate entities and material. (brahmano hi pratisthaham, Bhagavad Gita 14.27)
July 9 at 6:27pm ·
Iamyou Uarei Mr. KUMAAR: Thank you: All the appearances that you elaborated on, appear in Consciousness, witnessed by Consciousness, IT IS CONSCIOUSNESS. The individual entity is an appearance in the totality of this appearance, Therefore an image. UNDESTANDING OF THIS IS FREEDOM
Freedom! for whom?
NOT for the conceptual Individual, for sure, because there is no such an animal.
July 9 at 8:44pm · · 1 person
Santthosh Kumaar
Dear Shantinath Neuen, I respect your views. You are right from your own stand point . Whatever makes sense is based on the ego and it only satisfies the ego.The ego is not the self because the ego is false self within the false experience. Thus judging and concluding the truth on the false self is bound to be falsehood. When the self is formless the judgment has to be based on the formless not on the form[ego], than only one will be able to understand and assimilate and realize the non-dual truth. 'I' or 'I AM is inborn samskara or conditioning. It is very difficult to overcome this samskara or conditioning without realizing the 'I' or 'I AM is not the self but the formless knower[consciousness] of the 'I' or 'I AM' is the true self.
July 9 at 10:34pm ·
Pavlos Dolatzoglou
oh hello Santthosh, for me it is not so relevant if You are telling us the truth or not, it is relevant what effect has this telling. For example, many people say even "formless" is a form and even that ist not the true self. I like the saying of Bentinho as he explained that "even the formless" is a state and that "awareness" has no form of it`s own, so it can`t even be "formless" ;o) you understand? the whole point is, that you have the feeling or it feels like that, that you are gone deep and others not. ;o) that means not that what you say is not usefull. I like it (if it would not be so long:)
July 9 at 10:41pm · · 1 person
Pavlos Dolatzoglou or better... you seem to have a teacher-gene and see the others as disciples (of you ;o)) Iam sure your family takes it with humor ;o))
July 9 at 10:42pm · · 1 person
Iamyou Uarei Some of these folks who are allegedly knowledgeable in philosophy of ONENESS, UNICITY and are sharing in this Face Book are NOT NICE. Maybe this is the way the SHOW is supposed to unfold. Correct? But again, this is the UNICITY expressing itself in different ROLES. And watching itself.
July 9 at 10:47pm ·
Iamyou Uarei The show must go on there is no change of role in the middle of the show.
July 9 at 10:51pm ·
Pavlos Dolatzoglou no it is more like a test... if we have really eliminated all factors or not ;o)
July 9 at 11:26pm ·
Santthosh Kumaar
Dear Pavlos, I respect your views. I am not teacher nor I am looking for any disciples . I just sharing my views . the teacher disciple theory is an obstacle in pursuit of truth. there is no need to accept what I say . I am not imposing my ideas on others but sharing my views with like minded fellow seekers. Form is formless because form is created out of formless material. the whole universe is a form but it is created out of formless stuff ,which is consciousness. Scientific inventions say:
Why You Are Not Your Brain, and Other Lessons from the Biology of Consciousness
by :AlvaNoë. Hill and Wang, 2009
Alva No, a University of California, Berkeley, philosopher and cognitive scientist, argues that after decades of concerted effort on the part of neuroscientists, psychologists and philosophers "only one proposition about how the brain makes us conscious ... has emerged unchallenged: we don't have a clue." The reason we have been unable to explain the neural basis of consciousness, he says, is that it does not take place in the brain. Consciousness is not something that happens inside us but something we achieve it is more like dancing than it is like the digestive process. To understand consciousness the fact that we think and feel and that a world shows up for us we need to look at a larger system of which the brain is only one element. Consciousness requires the joint operation of brain, body and world. "You are not your brain. The brain, rather, is part of what you are."
If the brain [body] is not the self then what is self? Therefore, there is a need to understand and assimilate the knowledgeof the self through deeper self-search in order to unfold the mystery of the ‘I’. this is possible when one becomes aware of the fact that the mind is not within the body but body including the universe are within the mind. until one thinks the mind within the the body it is mere intellectuality not realization of truth. The unity in diversity arise only when one becomes aware of the fact that, his body,ego and his experience of the world are mere mirage created out of consciousness. The physical existence is reality on the base of physical self. Whatever one feels as a person is reality within the physical existence. If physical existence is taken as reality then there is no meaning in seeking truth because he has accepted the physical existence as truth. Once physical existence is accepted as reality then the experiences within the physical existence prevail as reality.
My point is we have to view our life from ultimate point of view, then only we become aware its illusory nature.
The nature of things necessarily unpreventable and uncontrollable when one regards world as world of diversity. Only when one is able to base his-self from ultimate standpoint and views the experience of diversity [mind] as consciousness only, then he becomes aware of their unreal nature of the physical existence or mind.
One, who has realized that existence and non-existence and change are in the nature of things, easily finds repose, being unperturbed and free from ignorance. The pain and pleasure exist as reality because of having the idea of two [duality]. To get rid of the reality of the pain and pleasure one has to find the formless substance of the duality [mind] to realize the whole diversity is created out of single substance, which is consciousness. Realizing the consciousness as ultimate truth, one becomes aware of the unreal nature of the mind, which appears as waking or dream [duality] and disappears as deep sleep [non-duality] .
Serious Seekers who desirous to know the truth, for them nothing bring contentment other then acquiring the self-knowledge. For one who becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but consciousness becomes aware of the fact that, the physical existence [illusion] has no base, and its reality is in illusory in its nature.
Our individual life is nothing to do with ultimate truth. The individual life is reality within the waking or dream. The three states are mere illusion on the ultimate standpoint. The ultimate truth, which is consciousness, is the substance and witness of the illusion and it is within the illusion and it is always apart and eternal.
As person perceiving the world one thinks he is born in this world and world existed prior to him, this conviction makes him physical oriented, thus he views and judges the world-view on the physical base therefore his understanding is limited to the physicality.
Deeper inquiry reveals the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless [consciousness]. On the base of formless [consciousness] as self, one becomes unreal nature of the mind, which appears as waking or dream. Thus, the waking is as unreal as dream.
When man his world are within the illusion and all his experiences are happenings within the illusion. Until one thinks the physical self as real self, he is bound to be in the realm of duality. The one which knows itself as body with the name is not the body but it is consciousness. When the consciousness withdraws itself then there is neither body, nor the name, nor the world exists. And consciousness alone prevails as non-dual existence.
Where is the body, where is mind, where is the world; the void; or despair in the true self, which the taintless soul or consciousness. They are or have becomes consciousness.
One thinks there is mind when he has thoughts, but when thoughts are not considered different from the consciousness, which is the true self, then where is the division into, waking, dream and deep sleep etc.
Void implies to duality: the universe may not exist but the thought of the second is there. If one knows there is Void [emptiness/nothingness], then there is something there to be known and know. They are or have become consciousness.
What are scriptures, what is self-knowledge, what is mind without the objects, what is contentment, and where is desirelessness for the formless soul/true self, which is ever devoid of sense of duality.
What is knowledge? What is ignorance? What is the ego? What is duality? What is mind? What is bondage? What is liberation? What is definableness to the formless self/soul, which is in the form of consciousness?
All these appearances are mere mirage, which come and go; hence meaningless to the formless soul/true self.
The ego based knowledge is not ultimate knowledge because ego based knowledge is dualistic knowledge based on the object [body] as subject. But in non-dualistic Knowledge whatever seems to exist also is consciousness; therefore there is no scope for the existence of the second thing.
What is past karmas? What is liberation –in this life? and what is that liberation at death? for the birth- less soul, which is ever formless.
Nearest state to understand the soul by itself is to eliminate mentally waking and dream as in deep sleep. Once this is grasped one has to understand everything is consciousness, which is the true self.
What is the doer or the enjoyer? What is cessation of thoughts or rising of thoughts? What is immediate perception and its result to, the formless soul, which is ever impersonal. A Gnani is the one who is never afraid of thinking and knowing all his individual experience and the world to be consciousness.
What is the world and what is meant by the aspirant for liberation; what is contemplative and what is man of knowledge; what the self is and what liberated self to the formless soul, which is the non-dual essence.
When we analyze the dream experience we find the dream entity, dream world with all people in it appeared as a whole, and the dream reality lasted until waking experience appeared. When one tries to know the truth of his true existence in waking through inquiry, analysis and reasoning, one becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless soul, which is in the form of consciousness which is the essence of the three states from which the three states are made. Thus the illusions of the three states are made of one single substance, which is consciousness. By realizing the formless substance, which is consciousness as self, the ignorance vanishes and one become aware of the fact that the three states are mere illusion on the standpoint of the formless substance ,which is also the witness of the three states.
When knows the soul as the true self:-
What are projection and retraction, what are end and means; what are failure and success to the formless soul, which is formless and non-dual in its nature. The mirage appears and merges back into its essence is not an appearance at all.
What is the knower, the means of knowledge, the object of knowledge; what is anything or nothing to the soul which is ever formless. Knower, knowledge, object, thing, nothing or any word one may utter is after all they are the words and words have meaning only within the mirage. The consciousness is ever present in all the three states but as a person, one is unconscious of the consciousness because he thinks the body as his self.
When all knowing, known and knower are simultaneously mental as in dream what else is there to trouble about understanding them. Because of considering the waking experience as reality one is incapable of understanding and assimilating the non-dual truth.
What is the distraction?What is the concentration, dullness ad delusion, happiness and sorrow to the formless soul, which is ever actionless.
As a person one may be drawn to observe his body and the world, but the Gnani is not disturbed by because they all are consciousness to him.
The physical attributes are nothing to do with the soul/self wrongly; all the attributes belong to the ego not the soul. Identifying the physical attribute to the soul is the cause of the ignorance.
What is relative? What is absolute happiness and misery to the formless soul, which is ever devoid of thought and activity?
If anything has a meaning it is only in duality. Happiness and sorrow are the nature of duality, which is mind, there differences therefore illusory on the standpoint of the formless soul, which is ultimate reality.
What is illusion? What is ignorance? What are birth, life and death? What is world? What is attachment and what is detachment to the soul/self, which is ever formless.
The mind and soul are one in essence ultimately. All argument about consciousness never touches it. The soul is not the ego in this particular body but principle which holds the whole physical existence [universe], which contains everyone and everything known and unknown. All words have no place and thoughts cannot reach. Even the thought of the soul or consciousness is just illusory and contradictory, because the thought and words belong to the world of duality.
What is activity or inactivity, liberation and bondage to the formless soul/self, which is ever immutable and indivisible. There is no division into nations, races and colours of kinds of men in wisdom. It is not enough to but one must always see the formless soul [consciousness] as self and the witness the witness of all the three states and always realize and practice it. Some people get glimpses of truth and lose it; so it must be established. Such fixidity is the goal.
What is instruction and scriptural injunction? What is disciple and guru? What indeed is object of life for the formless soul, which is absolute and free from limitation?
Life is with world. World is within the waking or dream, the illusory limitation. When there is no second other than consciousness, then what is there for the soul /self to attain? But when one thinks the self is physical, then there is various things he will want to get and so be trouble by their lack. Hence don’t wrongly imagine the self to be the body.
What is existence, nonexistence, unity or duality? What need us there to say more? Noting from the soul because whatever seems to emanate from it, is non-different from itself. There is no second thing other than the soul, which is in the form of consciousness. One should not mistake self [soul] for the ego.
Those who assert world is reality, are still in elementary stages of preliminary analysis. The world is reality within the waking experience but the waking experience is mere illusion. The same way the dream world was reality within the dream experience. The dream became unreal when waking took place same way waking becomes unreal when non-dual wisdom dawns. thus intelctual understanding is not wisdom.
July 10 at 12:54am ·
Shantinath Neuen Kumaar... you are:"...sharing my views with like minded fellow seekers"
July 10 at 1:05am ·
Shantinath Neuen Kumaar... you will make me happy leaving the pundit cloth behind and follow the sun and the moon and all that is pure wonders... the truth is... and it needs not to be explained, declared, praised... but it is to be shared, loved and expressed... which self you can remember when it is not yours, not was, not will be...
July 10 at 3:34am ·
Santthosh Kumaar
Thank you for your wisdom. it is very kind of you to use the pearls of words. Pursuit of truth is not punditry. Within the duality there is I AM and the universe. When the true self awakens itself from its ignorance it sees itself without the 'I AM' ,without its ego,without its body and without its experience of the world . I will not be there to feel happy as person :- When YOUR SELF becomes naked without the 'YOU ARE',WITHOUT YOUR BODY, WITHOUT YOUR UNIVERSE, WITHOUT YOUR INTELLECTUALISM , WITHOUT SUN AND MOON AND REAL WONDERS, IN THE MIDST OF DUALITY THAN THERE IS UNITY IN DIVERSITY, where THE SELF IS WITHOUT THE 'I AM AND THE UNIVERSE.
July 10 at 7:55am ·
Iamyou Uarei Being, Expressing; Being To Being.
A "personal" message MUST fail because it addresses a nonexistent entity.
The personal message is based on the belief that there is something called a separate seeker that can attain something else called enlightenment.
WHAT DO YOU THINK? PLEASE COMMENT ON THIS.
Monday at 12:46am ·
Santthosh Kumaar
Dear Iamyou, When the soul ,which is the true self wakes up in its own formless non-dual nature in the midst of duality[waking and realizes all the form and name are mere mirage it is self -realization.Self-realization does not arise arguing on the base of physical self or ego because the self is not form but formless consciousness. Soul is the ultimate truth. The soul is in the form of consciousness. The Soul is self-evident. It is not established by extraneous proofs. It is not possible to deny the soul, because It is the very essence of the one who denies It. The soul is the basis of all kinds of knowledge, presuppositions and proofs. Soul is the true self. Self is within, Self is without; Self is before, Self is behind; Self is on the right, Self is on the left; Self is above and Self is below.
Soul/Self is not an object, as it is invisible, beyond the reach of the eyes. Soul/self is whole, infinite, changeless, self-existent, self-delight, self-knowledge. It is, essence. It is the essence of the knower of the physical existence. It is the formless witness of the three states.
Soul/Self is supreme and it is impersonal, without attributes, formless, , immutable, eternal and. It is above all needs and desires. It is always the Witnessing Subject. It can never become an object as It is beyond the reach of the physicality because it is prior to physicality. Soul/Self is non-dual, one without a second. It has no other beside It. It is destitute of difference, either external or internal. Soul/Self cannot be described, because description implies distinction. Soul/Self cannot be distinguished from any other than itself.
The belief system is based on physicality. One has to dismantle physical structure mentally by realizing the fact that, the self is not physical but it is formless spirit, to overcome all conflicts and move towards the universal truth. Until one thinks body is one thing and world is another he will remain in ignorance. Only when he becomes aware of the fact that, the body and the world both are created out of single stuff, then there is unity in diversity in his understanding.
Tuesday at 8:14am ·
Iamyou Uarei Mr. Kummar: Slow down a little, smell the roses, this is not a show is scholarly. Allow all of this knowledge get you out of yourself, and when you give it away, give it slowly.
LOVE YOU for I am YOU.
Tuesday at 7:21pm ·
Santthosh Kumaar
When the roses, smell and smeller ,love, I and YOU are one in essence than where is duality, how can one get knowledge out of himself when man is not self. How can one get personal experience when the self is not an individual. Who or what has to allow to give up all his knowledge when man is not self. When man and his experience of the world are mere mirage created out of consciousness from the ultimate stand point than what value is there for the form,name and experience. Thus one has to first realize self is not the form but self is formless consciousness. than judge and reason on the formless self. Basing the judgment on the form and passing opinion on the form base is intellectuality. Realizing the self is formless getting firm conviction leads to Non-dual Self -Awareness in the midst of duality. Thus both experience and experiencer are part of the duality. There is no scope for duality in non-dual reality.
Yesterday at 9:40am ·
Santthosh Kumaar When I am is not 'I AM', 'YOU ARE' is not YOU ARE ,the gun is not the gun but everything is that single stuff the formless consciousness- , the self is that. Self is many in duality or illusion but it is one in reality. So SELF IS THAT. --formless consciousness is your eternal identity,without name ,form, time and space.
9 hours ago ·
