Sunday, November 20, 2011

FORMLESS PATH - FACEBOOK POSTINGS.






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  • Kelley White and 2 other members were added by Santthosh Kumaar.
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  • · · · · 16 hours ago

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  • The Self is never born, nor does It ever die; never It came into existence nor will It cease to be -It will not take rebirth, It is unborn, eternal and changeless; It is timeless and is never killed when the body is killed (BG 2.20)
    · · · 18 hours ago

  • People who follow the Yogi will gain peace not wisdom. For peace can be gained by deep sleep, by drugs, etc. It is not enough. Hence, Yogi's Ashram will be helpful to gain Yogic peace but no more. To visit it may be useful; to linger permanently will be injurious.

    One need not reject or condemn Yoga and Mysticism, religion scriptures, but he has to be fully aware of the fact they are useful for beginners, but to acquire non dual wisdom one has to finally come up to Reason. Nothing but reason will finally help.
    The mystic who talks of knowing, seeing, existing, intuiting a second thing --God, betrays thereby, that he is of limited intelligence; unable to grasp non dual truth. People do not want reason, but blind faith. Non dual Wisdom cannot come if anything is left out. The whole world must be included. Only when all is, known can all be known to be but illusion/mirage. Hence, Yogis blotting all out in Samadhi cannot lead to non dual Wisdom.

    The ego, belongs to the illusion as does the world. The Yogi may get the knowledge that the formless witness is separate from the three states, but he will never know Atmanundefined without analyzing the three states, because he is giving up the world and limits the ‘I’ to his physical entity, and hence cannot discover his unity with the world. The Gnani regards everything in the world [three states] as consciousness; the Yogi rejects the world. Thus, there is a fundamental difference.

    No yogi can remain without thoughts in Samadhi throughout the 24/7 hours. Once out of Samadhi he is like every other ignorant man, unless he practices Inquiry and reasoning on the true base. As soon as the Yogi comes down from Samadhi, he finds the world to be real. The Yogis who say the world is unreal are like the fox in the sour grapes in the fable: The Yogis do not know what the world is, and he is unable to prove it, hence his glib statement is worthless, not proceeding from understanding, or realization of world’s true nature.
    · · · 18 hours ago

  • A boozer feels that wine provides his way to heaven and ecstasy. For him that is truth. The Yogi thinks in precisely the same way of his Samadhi. Both are carried away by their blissful feelings, which they imagine to be truth. None inquires but both accept feelings as truth.

    To get started on a higher quest the seeker has to go to the source of the three states, that is to inquire, "What is I?" and analyze the three state.

    The whole experience of duality is mind or ‘I’. Seeker cannot get away from body or thoughts. They are part of the Waking or dream. Hence, need to understand the nature of the three states, if seeker wants ultimate truth. Until a seeker is ripe to receive truth from a competent guide, it is not advisable to ask seeker to give up meditation.

    It should be understood by novices that both Religion and yoga are all right as preparatory steps which should lead to the path of ultimate truth, but when yoga and Religion are made ends in themselves and not means to be used later in conjunction with inquiry, they may become and do become detrimental.

    Yoga is not useless it is good for physical fitness and helps to overcome the stress , but it is not ultimate; it is not the final; Yogic goal, leads eventually to physical based hallucination. Yogic Samadhi is not non dual Wisdom, which transcends and fulfils them.
    · · · 18 hours ago

  • Self –Knowledge or non-dual wisdom comes only after inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the base of the soul, which is the true self, there is no other way. That is why Yogi cannot be a Gnani. It is the difference between feeling and knowledge. Feeling of the Yogi that the world is unreal may change tomorrow because all emotions are liable to change. A permanent view of world is unreal can come only after inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the true base; such knowledge cannot change.

    To know whole truth, one must analyze the three states, otherwise he gets only half-truth. Incapacity to think makes one prisoner of duality. There is one thing especially seeker has to know ,that the ultimate truth is attainable, only when he is able to discover and realize the fact that ‘I’ is not the self but soul is the true self.
    The seeker of truth is trying to reach a position, which enables it to harmonize the highest achievements of his true nature. He fully aware and recognizes and admits the value and achievements of yoga and the benefit it confers, but he also recognize its limitations and disadvantages when pursued to excess.

    As a seeker after truth, has not deviated one iota from his quest. Now he knows how far yoga leads and now he sees what has to be done after passing its bounds. He has refused to become crazy which so many of those who have pushed their pursuit of yoga to extremes have done. The search for truth must be pursued to the end and not stop still in yoga. He has taken to the ultimate path. Ultimate truth lies beyond yoga.
    · · · 18 hours ago

  • Yoga has its place rather than its value and that its value is for a certain type of mind. Yoga will give steadiness of mind, education of mind, but not the non-dual truth or wisdom, because it ignores the three states and bases itself on the waking entity, which is the false self within the false experience.

    Man and the world cannot exist without the waking or dream. The waking is parallel dream and dream is parallel waking experience.

    The quest of the truth has brought the seeker to a clear perception that, there is something higher than yoga and mysticism. Therefore, he has been compelled by his love of truth to devote his further attention to these further exploration of non dual truth he has devoted large a portion of his life to mystic investigations.

    The three states are the basis of life, so it must be analyzed. Imagination is hindrance in pursuit of truth.
    · · · 18 hours ago

  • The discrimination between unchanging and changing realities soul, which is in the form of consciousness is the Truth and the three states are unreal. It is this realization that is considered discrimination between the three states is unreal." It is this realization that is considered discrimination between the permanent and the impermanent.

    Dispassion is the turning away from what can be seen and heard and so on in everything which is impermanent, that is from the three states.

    To know whole truth, seeker must analyze the three states, otherwise he gets only half-truth. Avoiding analyzing the three states means incapacity to think, an impotency of thinking faculty. There is one thing especially seeker has to know, that the ultimate truth is attainable, only when it is able to discover and realize the formless substance and witness of the three states.

    One has to know the fact that consciousness pervades in everything and everywhere in the three states as formless substance and witness. Thus consciousness is the ultimate truth is hidden within the three states. Even the illusion is consciousness because it is erupted out of consciousness which is the innermost self.
    · · · 18 hours ago

  • Disciple: Master! what is the means to gain the state of

    eternal bliss, ever devoid of misery?



    Master: Apart from the statement in the Vedas that wherever

    there is a body there is misery, this is also the direct experience

    of all people; therefore, one should enquire into one’s true

    nature which is ever bodiless, and one should remain as such.

    This is the means to gaining that state.



    Sri. Ramana Maharshi
    · · · 18 hours ago

  • Reason is the common ground for all in pursuit of truth, whereas the appeal to scriptural relations reaches only groups. One day the World would throw up religion, concept of god and scriptures as Buddha did and, people will start using reason to know what truth is and what is not.

    Those who argue that truth is only in their Religion are vain logicians, depending on imaginations. The scriptures are not the yardstick to say what is truth and what is untruth.

    If God is everywhere, then he is in corpse, then there is no necessity to burn or bury that God. One cannot get rid of him. To remove all doubts and confusions one need to inquire and reason and realize the fact that, man, world, god and religion are reality, only on the base of the false self within the false experience. Deeper self-search reveals the fact that, waking entity [‘ego’] is not the self. Therefore, whatever seen, known, believed and experienced on the base of waking entity [‘ego’] as self has to be false hood. Deeper self-search reveals the fact that, the soul is the true self. Thus on the standpoint of the soul the waking experience, which contains man and his experience of the world, and his belief of god is mere illusion. Thus mans existence, which is limited to waking experience alone is mere mirage. Thus the formless substance and witness of the mirage, which is the soul/conciousness is the true self. Thus on the standpoint of the soul as self, the three states are unreal.
    · · · 18 hours ago

  • There are so many conflicting Religions, or so many changes, divisions and subdivisions of Religion, created by the founders of religion on the base of there own imagination to help the ignorant mass to regulate their life with ethics and code of conducts to live with love and harmony in society.

    Seeker of truth should never hold scriptural citation as proof and become their slaves. Seeker of truth has to verify for himself what they say is truth or not. They are not to be used as authorities, therefore. The seeker of truth, who wants self-knowledge, will not hold Yogic Samadhi as self-awareness, because yogic Samadhi is which is for ignorant because it is based on the physicality.

    Seeking mind will inquire and practice discrimination. Truth has to be attained, not by intuition but by reason, which is superior to it. Not even a combination of intellect and intuition will find truth.

    Proof is the main thing in pursuit of truth, "How can God exists without man’s existence?” how can the world exist without man’s existence. Thus man has to exist first to say god and world exists. Thus seeker has to verify about his one existence to realize the fact that, all the three states are unreal, on the standpoint of the formless witness, which is the soul/true self.
    · · · 19 hours ago

  • People are suffering from sickness of ignorance. Every moment they says, "They did not know, but now they know, after by test and verification. If ignorance were permanent, nothing could be known. Removal of ignorance by knowledge of the true self is the purpose of pursuit of truth. Most people are sentimentally and emotionally involved with their inherited religion and beliefs, and they refuse to accept anything else other then their accepted truth. Thus truth pursuit is not suited for those who are stuck up with their inherited religion and beliefs and accepted truth. Whatever is imagined is not truth. All imaginations are part and parcel of the Waking or dream.

    Doubts arise when one meets with suffering and disappointment after sincerely following and worshiping gods and gurus. He finds religious way cannot get him out of his restlessness and permanent remedy to get permanent peace.

    Suffering is necessary to make one inquire. Thus when one gets an pain he begins to question whether something is not agreed with him . similarly when he finds religion and yoga are inadequate and useless in quenching his inner thirst he will look elsewhere to find answers for quenching his inner thirst. Pursuit of truth is the getting rid of all doubts. The pursuit of truth begins with doubt that means doubting one’s own self, one’s own beliefs.
    · · · 19 hours ago

  • This is the true SELF, it is not a form but formless. Everything we perceive through our naked eyes that is directed by our mind, there is no doubt that they all are illusions.
    BUT here is the problem... Can you discard this illusion body by thinking "oh this body is an illusion I do not need it!" Can you discard your family, friends, responsibilities, and the word by saying it is an illusion? Some folks say "I" creates everything. With "I" the mind, body and the Universe exist. This is also true, "I" creates everything.
    We need to understand that the practical world exists within practical life. And we are aware that we have to experience the reality through an illusion. We cant just ignore it. "Two" means balance, why do we have two arms, two legs, two eyes, two ears ect. Our galaxy and whole body is telling us that one has to live in balance. Even our Universe is created out of two energies "Positive and Negative". The real seeker takes this duality as non-duality, and puts his/her feet on both sides by balancing his practical life and live with Peace, Love and harmony. And satyam is fully aware that this Love, peace and harmony are created out of consciousness. BUT without them humanity cannot survive.
    CAN YOU SURVIVE IN THIS PRACTICAL WORLD WITHOUT THESE STRONG TOOLS???
    Not to mention Buddha and Jesus even chose the path of Love, Peace and Compassion.
    · · · Yesterday at 12:26am near Hayesville, NC





      • Deb Boundy I love coming to this forum, and just listening... absorbing the wisdom...
        23 hours ago · · 1

      • Santthosh Kumaar
        Most of the seekers are in uncertainty because they do not know which path leads to the ultimate end. People go after one guru to another, one scholar to another, going one place to another, reading book after books without knowing what th...See More


        20 hours ago · · 2


  • · · · Friday at 10:25am




      • Santthosh Kumaar
        We have to respect and thankful to every sage of the past for their contribution to the seeking world in their own way. But one should not hold any sage or any of the past as a yardstick without verification. one has to find out what is ...See More

        23 hours ago · · 2

      • Satyam Sam Singh Dear Santthosh Ji thank you much much much and more love to you. _/\_ ♥ ♥
        20 hours ago via mobile · · 2

  • Proof is the main thing in pursuit of truth, "How can God exists without man’s existence?” how can the world exist without man’s existence. Thus man has to exist first to say god and world exists. Thus seeker has to verify about his one existence to realize the fact that, all the three states are unreal, on the standpoint of the formless witness, which is the soul/true self.
    · · · 22 hours ago

  • No mystic experience ever reveals truth. The feat of a Guru, touching people and thus putting them into mystic trances is purely a physical or at best, a psychological one; based on the power of suggestions it has nothing to do with the question of truth.

    Mysticism charms mass mindsets but reason does not. Faith, feeling or experience is on everyone's lips. The divine sounds are heard interiorly in meditation is based on individuality, and whatever is based on individuality is mere hallucination based on the false selfundefined within the false experienceundefined When seeker of truth sees all this diversity and contradiction of beliefs and opinions, he should reflect that there is some error somewhere. This doubt is the beginning of inquiry into truth. It is time for the people who are in orthodox and yogic path to switch over to path of wisdom. That is why Sri Sankara, indicated in Bhaja Govindam says: - [Jnana Viheena Sarva Mathena Bajathi na Muktim janma Shatena] - one without knowledge does not obtain liberation even in a hundred births, no matter which religious faith he follows.
    · · · 22 hours ago

  • First one has to find out what he knows and believes is truth or not. Because the mass follow it cannot be accepted as truth. They may be in error; mere numbers do not make truth. One has to verify the validity of their belief and their belief system. One should not assume his inherited truth as truth without verification. People think “that the majority believes in religion and god, must therefore it must be true." Seeker has to stop with his imaginations about God, and verify the validity of his own existence to know whatever he seen, known, believed and experienced are part and parcel of the illusion.
    · · · 22 hours ago

  • If someone claims claim that he seen God by intuition cannot be disapproved. But he must prove what he has seen is god. When man sees the world within waking experience, and when the waking experience itself is illusion on the base of the soul, which is the true self. Thus whatever claimed by any one in the waking experience, is bound to be unreal, on the standpoint of the soul as self. Thus the onus of proof is on those who make an assertion. Religionists and mystics are required to prove the existence of god, without quoting the scriptures; the burden to disprove is not on their critics.
    · · · 22 hours ago

  • What was one before birth one becomes after death? No one knows what he was before birth. It is only on the base of waking entity he thinks of past birth and future rebirth. When seeker of truth becomes aware of the fact that, the self is not the physical body, but the formless soul, how can he think of the past and future forms, which is the part of the illusion? The true self is the formless soul, and is birth less and deathless eternal identity.
    · · · 22 hours ago

  • First one has to find out what he knows and believes is truth or not. Because the mass follow it cannot be accepted as truth. They may be in error; mere numbers do not make truth. One has to verify the validity of their belief and their belief system. One should not assume his inherited truth as truth without verification. People think “that the majority believes in religion and god, must therefore it must be true." Seeker has to stop with his imaginations about God, and verify the validity of his own existence to know whatever he seen, known, believed and experienced are part and parcel of the illusion.
    · · · 22 hours ago

  • Scriptures are being added to from time to time. This process will go on. There is no final authority among them. One contradicts the other duality reigns supreme. Samadhi is to remain consciously in the realm of the non dual nature of the soul in the midst of experience duality, not absence of duality or absence of thought. Yogic Samadhi is not wisdom it is only absence of thoughts.
    · · · 23 hours ago

  • Not all scriptural citations are signposts towards ultimate truth or Brahman. Thus highlighting only those which helps the seeker to move inwards are useful others have to be discarded. . Quoting scriptures or any authority is not the proof of the truth.

    Scriptures are not proof of the truth. The truth has to be proved without the scriptures. People take to the path of belief or of authoritarianism merely because they are the easiest ways. To seek for proof is troublesome and time taking. Religion and mysticism are very much preferred to self-knowledge, because one has only to imagine, not to inquire and reason. The first is easy the second is hard.
    · · · 23 hours ago

  • There is no need to condemn yoga, as it helps only to regulate the minds of novice. The difference between self- knowledge and meditation is that self- knowledge will be determined by the nature of the object to be known, whereas meditation will be determined by the nature of the meditator.
    · · · 23 hours ago

  • God belongs to individuality. No one can prove the existence of god. God cannot exist without the believer. Therefore god is dependent on man for his existence. Thus there is a need to verify man’s existence in order to unfold the mystery of one’s own existence.

    When the seeking mind becomes aware of the fact that all the three states are unreal on the base of the soul, which is the true self, it becomes aware of the fact that, whatever seen, known, believed and experienced as reality within the waking experience as a person is mere mirage. Thus his experience of the world and belief of god is mere mirage on the standpoint of soul, which is the true self. Thus it is necessary to learn to view and judge the three states on the base of the soul in order to realize the fact that all the three states are mere illusion. Only after realizing the three states are illusory one can say the world is illusion, not until then.

    Religion, dogmatically assumes gods existence which is based on individual perception. One has to realize the fact that whatever is based on individuality is bound to be illusion. Thus the physical body and the experience of the world and belief of god are part of the illusion. In reality no second thing exist other then Atman. Thus Atman alone is reality which is formless substance and witness of the illusion [three states].

    All the Gods appearance through vision is mere hallucination on the standpoint of the soul, which is the true self. Thus all the claims about appearance of god are not truthful on the base of soul as self. Even if god appeared to any one cannot be taken as real since the waking experience itself is unreal. Thus whatever is based on individual and the world is bound to be reality within the illusory waking experience. The waking experience is impermanent, which appear and disappears. The permanent is the formless substance and witness of the three states.

    No doubt the mystic had a vision, but it is his individual experience within the illusory experience undefined. Wherever there is individuality there is duality. Wherever there is experience of duality the unreality bound to exist as reality. Therefore there is need of careful observation to assimilate what is real and what is unreal in order to acquire self knowledge.
    · · · 23 hours ago

  • The yogi and mystics they are base on the conceptual religion, conceptual gods and scriptural authority which are based on the ‘I’ which is false self. People too are not aware of the fact, they do not think beyond the experience of the three states. Therefore, it is very much necessary to verify the facts before proceeding in pursuit of truth, to know whether self is physical body [‘I’] or self is the soul.
    What is it that witnesses the dreams without the physical body? If the dream is witnessed without the physical body [‘Ego’] then what is it that is aware which is not the physical body. Therefore, there must be formless witness of the dream. This formless witness is the same witness that that witnesses the waking and deep sleep. Therefore the three states are witnessed by one and only formless witness.
    The three states are merged into the mental state, in the sense that when it is analyzed, it is found to exist inseparably in and as the mind alone. All "dualistic l" planes are mental: people who regard them as reality are deceiving themselves.
    · · · 23 hours ago

  • The yogi and mystics they are base on the conceptual religion, conceptual gods and scriptural authority which are based on the ‘ego’ which is false self. People too are not aware of the fact, they do not think beyond the experience of the three states. Therefore, it is very much necessary to verify the facts before proceeding in pursuit of truth, to know whether self is physical body [‘ego’] or self is the soul.

    What is it that witnesses the dreams without the physical body? If the dream is witnessed without the physical body [‘Ego’] then what is it that is aware which is not the physical body. Therefore, there must be formless witness of the dream. This formless witness is the same witness that that witnesses the waking and deep sleep. Therefore the three states are witnessed by one and only formless witness.

    The three states are merged into the mental state, in the sense that when it is analyzed, it is found to exist inseparably in and as the mind alone. All "dualistc " planes are mental: people who regard them as reality are deceiving themselves.
    · · · 23 hours ago

  • Page 78 bottom of Brihad Up.: To see Him whole mystics may have similar ideas of the "universe in a dew-drop," but Vedanta demands proof.

    Take any Upanishad and you will see that it says Atman is known by Reason alone, by sharpened and purified intellect. Yet still our people worship Yoga and mysticism as the sole means of attaining Atman.
    · · · 23 hours ago


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      • Rs Mani Knowing Atman is not lik knowing an object say, a mango. That is why one has to know Atman by reason and recognize Atman present in every piece of objective knowledge, "prati bodha vidhitam matam". Some are of the opinion that one can know by his own efforts, which, I doubt is not possible, because whatever efforts one makes will be subjective and will always take him away from knowing Atman.
        23 hours ago ·

  • Upanishad's say "He who thinks he knows, does not know." This means that to know anything implies a second, an object of knowledge, hence duality, i.e. no Gnana.
    · · · 23 hours ago

  • BRIHAD. UPANISHAD: "The knower of Brahman wears no signs."
    · · · 23 hours ago

  • YOGA VASISTHA "In all actions whatever, whether of commission or omission, there is nothing save the absence of attachment to distinguish the fool from the man of wisdom."
    · · · 23 hours ago

  • Says Vasistha Ramyana "Know that to be Maya and enjoy Maya, that is Gnana." Hence we may enjoy human life but be on our guard not to be deceived or destroyed by it.
    · · · 23 hours ago

  • MAHABHARATA: Why is the pilgrimage to Kailas enjoined? Mahabharata teaches that a plunge into Manasovar is the plunge into Manas wherein the whole world is seen, i.e. to perceive the world as idea. It is a difficult feat, as difficult as the pilgrimage itself. Mahabharata also says that when people are told to go there, they are to plunge deep into the mind, the whole world is made of Manas, mind. After that you reach Kailas and understand the truth. The bath comes first, it is the inquiry the arrival at Kailas comes second, it is finding realization.
    · · · 23 hours ago